Hiruzen Sarutobi: "The GOD of shinobi" arguments

[Troyg39]

Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

Your point about power=more jutsu is actually very well thought, the clear example is Orochimaru and I had never seen it like that before. Probably that is why he was calledthe strongest shinobi in part 1, because he had more jutsu than anyone an dprobably knew a lot of every known jutsu.

thank you i'm glad you understood where i was coming from

 

[FlyingThunderGodHax]

Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

Example 2: 3rd Hokage vs Naruto.

Now this wasn't a fight, but Naruto still took down Hiruzen with a pretty pathetic jutsu. We ALL know Naruto was not stronger than Hiruzen in part 1, but this is exactly why I say that being stronger does not mean you can't get caught off guard by the right jutsu. Naruto took down Hiruzen with the sexy no jutsu, yes, SEXY NO JUTSU.

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I know some of you are going "this doesn't mean anything" but you clearly see Hiruzen laying unconscious on the ground with a nosebleed. He's the 3rd Hokage, yet he got caught off guard by a jutsu like this. That's because it's not always about being stronger, but having the right jutsu in your arsenal.
Plus, this jutsu doesn't work on every male in the manga, as you see here when Konohamaru trys to use it on his sensei:

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As silly as it sounds, This weak sensei avoided a jutsu that the 3rd Hokage fell prey to. But we all know Hiruzen isn't weak.

So there you have it, sorry it's so long, but I learned that you have really explain things on NB. Also, since Hiruzen knew more jutsu than Harishima, it's very possible he knew a jutsu capable of beating Harishima. No one really knows

This is non other than comedy. Sometimes you can't take stuff in naruto so literally. Yes your theory makes sense but it doeen't count because it was the funny side of naruto.

 

[Troyg39]

Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

Did yu just read 2tomoe sasuke>rock lee really REALLY

Read the thread man. Then go back and read the Rock Lee vs Sasuke fight. The whole point is to look at the idea of power=more jutsu, a real concept that Kishi used in part 1. Sasuke knew more jutsu, because on top of knowing some taijutsu, he, unlike Lee, had chakra, meaning he could do ninjutsu and genjutsu too if he wanted. Sasuke had chakra and the sharingan, so yes he was stronger. But he lost to Lee, who had no chakra and only used Taijutsu, because the sharingan has a disadvantage against high speed taijutsu since the sharingan can see it coming, but if the body can't react fast enough, it can't dodge the attacks. Meaning a weaker (less jutsu, no chakra) Lee, easily defeated a stronger Sasuke in battle.

Being stronger doesn't mean you will always beat your opponent

 

[zombiejesus]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

orochimauro was useing reanimation justu not edo so try to get the facts together. im assume edo justu allows the body to use all of the orginal decease person justu. reanimation justu we never say the raw strength of the first nor his clones, nor his forest ability, nothing. once again relaize this when you agree with the fan boys

FIRST HOKAGE TOOK CONTROL OVER MADARA PET THAT HAD FALLEN TO HIS CONTROLL. AND defeated them both, hiruzen cried and called for the fourth hokage to save him and the village while he watched in awe.

i realize that the 3rd beat the 1st and 2nd at the same time as fighting orochimaru thats fact thats all i need and i dont care that they were being controlled they had there consciousness so they had their moves plus kabuto said orochimaru perfected edo tensei and as i stated in my first post dont really care but it got a rise out of you so .......worth it lol xd

 

[BloodSeed]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

Did you just say... Hiruzen>itachi... No lol. I agree hiruzen is strong as **** but he has no counter to Susano, amer, totsuka, yata, or tysu. just no sir, no.

ok itachi greater than hiruzen

itachi is the god of shinobi, now are you happy?

now i think your face is like this when you see someone say itachi>(insert name here)

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[Troyg39]

Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

This is non other than comedy. Sometimes you can't take stuff in naruto so literally. Yes your theory makes sense but it doeen't count because it was the funny side of naruto.

I don't see how my theory can make sense but not count. But okay. I used two examples for this very reason.

I hope you realize I'm not in any way trying to say that Hiruzen is weak or that Naruto was stronger. Being stronger than your opponent doesn't mean you will beat them in battle, because fighting style, stamina, strategy, or simply what jutsu you have in your arsenal can make the difference. I think you are focusing too much on the idea that Naruto bested Hiruzen with a simple jutsu (which he did, it's proven in the manga, no denying it) and not on the big picture.

I'm simply saying that I believe Hiruzen is the strongest Hokage because he knew more jutsu than any of them. Kishi stressed jutsu=power in the manga (proof is Orochimaru and his ideals), but being strongest doesn't mean you can beat everyone (proof is Lee vs Sasuke)

 

[Kuriboh]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

Yes it was said that hiruzen was the strongest hokage in part one, but it also said that the sharingan originated from the byuakugan... I agree with this thread and you cant believe evrything said in part one since i think kishi might have had mixed ideas aboutpart 2 and got the forshadowing mixed up

 

[Troyg39]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

Smh. I made a thread sort of with this topic earlier and got flammed and trolled quite a bit for it. Although some people understood me. Basically I think Hiruzen was called the strongest Hokage because he knew more jutsu than any of them. In part 1, Kishi obviously stressed the concept of power=justu mastered, thus the reason why Orochimaru (Hiruzen's student) was so focused on mastering every jutsu. But being the strongest (knowing more jutsu) doesn't mean that you can defeat an opponent weaker than you, since fighting style, stamina, intelligence, and other factors come into play.

I think this explains why the databook says Hiruzen is strongest Hokage, yet Hashi is hyped as the stronger one in the manga. If part 1 concept is power=jutsu, then Hiruzen>Hashi for knowing more jutsu. But I think Hashi was a better fighter

 

[Sonin]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

ok itachi greater than hiruzen

itachi is the god of shinobi, now are you happy?

now i think your face is like this when you see someone say itachi>(insert name here)

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No, A>B B>C therefore A>C doesnt work. I was simply saying Hiruzen (from all that we have seen) is weak against genjutsu(meaning he can be caught). Has nothing to dodge ameratersu(not near as fast as minato or A) and can't get through Susano. I was just saying Itachi is a bad match for Hiruzen is all.

 

[Lankeysob]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

Was about to flame you but i agree this hype that his fanboys use is starting to get on my nerves. Every strong character has gotten hype, it just so happens that he shares his nickname with the sage. We shouldnt get ahead of ourselves though because he clearly isnt in that league nor in the league of the current crop of ninja's.

I also believe that people dont understand why hiruzen is the strongest hokage and im thinking about making a thread. Basically this is why hiruzen is the strongest hokage. He was trained by both the 1st and second hokage who were leaders of the senju and that clan was said to be a clan with a 1000 skill (or some shit like that). If you notice hashirama had loads of scroll, scrolls that if you are elected hokage you are entitled to and i believe one of those scrolls is what naruto stole at the beginning of the series.

Now Hiruzen being a part of the sarutobi clan who were said to have natural talent in learning ninjutsu fast, its reasonable to say due to his old age, plus this natural ability he has mastered all the scrolls/ninjutsu's that existed in konoha. He has done something that not even his 2 former masters did in their life time. Further more if you look at the db he is the only person, yes only person to get a 5/5 for all 3 forms of ninja art and this speaks volumes. No wonder he was called the professor.

Now because he was the student of the 2 hokages he knows their techniques very well, so much so that if he was to fight them he would be able to counter and we saw this. The weakness of the Kokuangyo no Jutsu is that apart from the eye sight being taken away from you, all your othe senses are there and because hiruzen being the student of the 1st knew of this technique and its weakness he used his nose (sense of smell) to track hashirama;

Spoiler

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Secondly Enma is a good counter for mokuton and we have seen this. Hashirama used the same technique as edo madara when he first used the mokuton. The technique was Mokuton Hijutsu: Jukai Kotan. Enma not only made mokuton look like a twig it also protect hiruzen;

Spoiler

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Tobirama being a master of suiton jutsu. Hiruzen knew this and was able to counter his Suiton suiryudan, with doton doryuuheki;

Spoiler

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The reason why Hiruzen is the strongest hokage is NOT solely based on raw power but knowledge on his counterparts to defeat them in a fight. Its his knowledge on his teachers abilities that will allow him to defeat them in a fight thats why he is strongest amongst them. Note the word amongst them because i believe people dont understand this.

If we were to give hashirama and hiruzen 10 top shinobi's to fight in a 1 vs 1 situation, i believe hashirama would win majority of his fights and i cannot say the same for hiruzen. So whilst hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to his knowledge on his former teachers, if we were to take this a step further and place them both outside the criteria of hokage hashirama is stronger, but if were to revert this and place them in the criteria of hokage hiruzen is stronger

This is a highly plausible possibility. +rep good sir!

 

[Taiketsu Yagami]

Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype

And I notice a lot of u using the Hashirama vs. Madara BS.

The real reason Hashirama was able to take on both Madara and Kurama was because he could control tailed beast through his mokuton. Hashirama is the perfect person to take on a tailed beast and so far there has been nothing special about EMS Madara except for being able to create a sussano that can stand on two legs.

Key word here is "perfect" against a tailed beast. Don't use A>B>C logic here =/

 

[Prime Rib]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

wait to the person who made this thread why you care its just a fourm lol

 

[Migualon J.J.]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

Guy's, in his Prime it is true he was called the God of Shinobi, but he was a God to every shinobi in the present , how can he be rated to someone who wasn't born yet? In other words let's say hiruzen was prime now in Part 2, I don't think he would have that title.

The Title was just a Part 1 hype. In other words the difference of power levels were different from Hiruzen's Time then current Part 2 Naruto. I understand many of you think he is the strongest because of the title, but he got the title BECAUSE he was the strongest at the time, (Understand?)

He is in no way shape or form weak, He at 69 years old beat The 2 weak Hokage's and took Orochimaru's arms at the same time.

But even if we did know the extent of Hiruzen's powers, do you honestly think he could beat BM Naruto, EMS Sasuke, Rinne-Tobi, and the list could go on. The point is Hiruzen is powerful indeed, really truly, but this overrating of him needs to stop.

Also Hashirama was dead when Hiruzen was Prime. So when Hiruzen was called "God of shinobi" clearly that didn't count against hashi as he was not alive.

Like OP said, did you see all the moves we saw Madara use? He didn't use them in That hokage royale in part 1 because he was a noob version of the real Hashirama

bolded made me lol, you do understand that if we knew his powers we wouldn't have this discussion here? xd

TROLLING AT YOUR LEVEL? how sad, hiruzen is stronger than hashirama but he was powerless against the nine tails and got his ass kicked by orochimaru. makes sense.

1) this isn't DBZ
2) against Kyuubi he was around 54 and he didn't really get a chance to do anything
3) 69 years old Hiruzen against 50 years old Orochimaru in young body

:flaw: people who say hiruzen> hashirama are just plan fanboys and they keep saying "kishi said that hiruzen was the god of shonibi". the facts are clear

1. hiruzen was owned by orochimaru so according to the people who believe everything everyone in the manga says that makes orochimaru the newst god but wait he was defeated by sasuke so does this make sasuke a god because he beat the guy who was considered the god of shonibi?

i am not fanboy, and i say Hiruzen > Hashirama, at least until Kishi states that Hashirama > Hiruzen

and LOL, again, it wasn't just Orochimaru, it was Orochimaru + weaker Hashirama + weaker Tobirama vs 69 years old Hiruzen

orochimauro was useing reanimation justu not edo so try to get the facts together. im assume edo justu allows the body to use all of the orginal decease person justu. reanimation justu we never say the raw strength of the first nor his clones, nor his forest ability, nothing. once again relaize this when you agree with the fan boys

FIRST HOKAGE TOOK CONTROL OVER MADARA PET THAT HAD FALLEN TO HIS CONTROLL. AND defeated them both, hiruzen cried and called for the fourth hokage to save him and the village while he watched in awe.

Reanimation Jutsu = Edo Tensei

I take Madaras word over oro and iruka combined. Personally I've been a fan of hashi since I saw his secret technique in naruto ultimate ninja 3(I KNOW Y'ALL KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT. Lol) So out of the hokages I do like him the best. You can imagine my delight in the recent story developments pertaining to him. In my opinion I think kishi did this on purpose. In a show with such a strong support cast these debates are innevitable. I don't see why people get so worked up about it. If you don't like the way the story goes then write your own. Whether we like/hate them aren't the plot twists what keep us interested? Be sensible. Let my man kishi do his thing.

this is funny thing most people didn't think about, did Madara see Hiruzen's Prime? NO HE DIDN'T

 

[Darth Wignus]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

Hashirama is a Class BOSS! Hiruzen can't even live up to that. At this point I doubt he was any better then Tobirama; Tobirama created Edo, mastered S/T jutsu, had crazy strong water jutsu (all though i personally think Kisame has better water style jutsu then 2nd lord Hokage ever did). So card all we know is that Hiruzen knows all the jutsu in the Leaf but never used them (from what we've seen). Hashrama took on Madara and the 9 tails and beat both their asses. Plus he was able to tame ALL the tail beast he was Damn near a demi god if anything.

 

[Prime Rib]

Re: Hiruzen's strength was measured by his jutsu

3rd hokage ftw

 

[Yusuke Urameshi]

Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype

I'm not a fanboy of either of these two. Of the Hokages, I think Minato's the strongest, but irrelevant! In the first series, Naruto, the 3rd was hyped up to make him sound all B.A., which he very well could've been IN HIS PRIME. In Naruto Shippuden, the main hype has been about the 1st, because of Madara and the 9 tails etc, etc. We can't compare old 3rd to prime 1st. That's not a fair fight and therefore is a draw.

 

[EnvyMyApex]

Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype

If Kishimoto said Hiruzen was the strongest, then he's the strongest. Does he need to make a public announcement about this crap?

 

[Shady17]

Re: Hiruzen fanboys are fools

Show me Kishi stating, this year 2012, that Hiruzen keeps the title "god of shinobi"

 

[KingParker]

Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype

The 3rd old ass beat oro the 1st and 2nd hokages at the same time clearly he was the strongest hokage but he admitted that the 4th was stronger. You have to be stronger than the edo to beat the edo and thatsjust what he did. And while Im at it the 4th beat tobi who was in control of the nine tails.

 

[destined 2 win]

Re: Hiruzen hype and Hashirama hype

And I notice a lot of u using the Hashirama vs. Madara BS.

The real reason Hashirama was able to take on both Madara and Kurama was because he could control tailed beast through his mokuton. Hashirama is the perfect person to take on a tailed beast and so far there has been nothing special about EMS Madara except for being able to create a sussano that can stand on two legs.

Key word here is "perfect" against a tailed beast. Don't use A>B>C logic here =/

ok remove 9 tail fox from equation but hashi still has to fight EMS madara. the most prodegious uchihaa ever born.EMS enabled him strengths like amatersu,susanoo way before itachi or sasuke so obviously hashi was more than just power to defeat madara. just look how itachi tamed and pawned kabuto , oro so just imagine its wasnt only mokuton that enabled hashi to win agnst legendary uchihaa. i think hashi is way cleaver and has even more jutsu's than we are informed. looking forward to see full power of hashi:noc: