HG Swells said:
Was Kakashi a life threatening situation?
How about pushing Sasuke back and breaking the wall to find Kabuto? Or killing the crow? How is facing a transformed Jinchuuriki, the (second) fastest ninja in the world and then several Kages at once, and as far as he knew, the Hokage of Konoha not similar situations? You're acting as if these are every day people he was facing. The only reason Itachi didn't seem to use it more was because he was dying, since as soon as he became an Edo summon, he had no trouble using it at every chance he got. Heck, Madara when facing two Kages, had no trouble relying on his Susanoo. So your claim that it's how MS is suppose to be used was proven false in the series itself.
Um, no. Against Ae, Sasuke attempted to use a genjutsu til he saw it wasn't gonna work, then used his Chidori Blade and Chidori which both proved ineffective too. He didn't rely on his MS til he saw how strong Ae was. Against Danzo, Sasuke used two of his Chidori Spear, regular sword several times, Great Fireball, weapon summoning, and an attempted Chidori. HIs battle with Ae was mainly regular technique before he needed to switch to MS, and against Danzo it was an even split. Also, he stated he was testing his EMS out when he used it against the Zetsus, the only time he solely relied on it.
What are you referring to? The fight with Ae? Anyway, you claim those techniques were only suppose to be used under life threatening situations and clearly that's not true, as we specifically know Madara used his MS enough that he became blind long before that of his brother and afterward still tended to use his MS techniques in situations where he didn't actually require them.
I was referring to Itachi using Tsukuyomi on Kakashi all the way back in Part One? That was not a life and death situation and it was made clear Itachi could have dealt with him without it, yet Itachi still used his MS, so claiming he only used it under life threatening situations is false.
Exactly, we see that Itachi has no problem drawing upon his MS when he has the option to. It's not "being reserved" for life and death threats anymore.
Again, I have no idea what you're referring to. Are you talking about the one used against Danzo? Sasuke wasn't the one under the genjutsu.
If you have the links, then you would see it that Sasuke attempted to use several of his regular techniques before he had to use Susanoo to protect himself. He didn't use MS until his life was threaten, which you admitted was when it's suppose to be used.
Sure, what do you need proof of?
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and
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.
I'm quite sure I was being clear. The point was that Sasuke using his MS when fighting against the likes of the Kages is hardly uncalled for as we have seen and even in such situations, he still tends to use it as a last resort.
Um, no. He was already out of Kabto's control. He killed the crow because it wasn't any use anymore and that's the point. He clearly didn't need to use Amaterasu just to kill it.
You're referring to the Kages and Kirabi as every day people? These are the most elite people in a village. The top tier. And the only two Sasuke fought who were alone were Danzo and Kirabi. And his MS did have an effect on Itachi's sickness, as we saw when he fought Sasuke.
Um, Madara has used his Susanoo nearly the entire time we have seen him. And he's not testing anything, he's playing around.
Sasuke didn't use his sword to block an attack, but to attack.
Um, no, that wasn't the crow's purpose. The crow was meant for Sasuke, not for Itachi. And him being an Edo summon means little. Hanzou was an Edo summon, yet he still breathed seeing as he was affected by his own poison, the Nidaime Mizukage was shown tired after creating Jokey Boi, and Itachi was shown affected by Kabuto's paralyzing sound dragon. Heck, when Itachi used Amaterasu, he began to bleed from his eye. Not to mention the fact that Itachi's under a genjutsu, which means he must have a working mind. So it's obviously that even the Edo summons are still affected by physical limitations.
And no, no one witnessing MS before simply meant they never survived the encounter.
Sasuke never intended to fight at the summit. That was made clear. Their original plan was simply to find what Danzo looked like and then ambushed him on the way back to Konoha. They had a whole discussion about it. The only reason he had to fight was because White Zetsu set him up by revealing him to the Kages.
And until Ae grabbed him and was about to murder him, Sasuke hadn't used his MS, so your point was clearly wrong.
Um, no I haven't. In neither of my posts did I mention taijutsu at all. Reread them for yourself.
Um,
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, which happen right before he choose to use Chidori.
What are you talking about? Itachi had Kakashi on the run and he wasn't even using his full power. Even Kakashi admitted that. There was no life and death situation there nor a need to use his MS when a regular genjutsu would have worked just as well.
Um, I don't think you understand how Izanagi works.
Which doesn't at all change my original point about your random assumption as to how MS is suppose to be used. And what excuses did I make towards Danzo again? Also, Danzo didn't break sasuke's Tsukuyomi. He was still in it when Sasuke got trapped by his seal. It merely wore out, since as he mentioned, the lack of time manipulation like with Itachi's meant that Sasuke's followed real world time. Degrading Danzo because of his age and ignoring the fact that he had one of the most Haxed abilities? Note that Izanagi was the only think that allowed Danzo to even fight as long as he did, instead of being murdered in the first two minutes.
It shows that he too has no issue with using his MS whenever he wants to, not merely in life and death situations.
Um, I said that they fought him alone...
He did eventually fight them all at once. Gaara didn't want to, but he did anyway because it was his duty. This was actually shown in the manga. Why did he need bailing out by Zetsu? Oh right, because he had just been moments before fighting two Kages. Same with Onoki. The fact that you're ignoring that all the events were within moments of each other says it all.
And he was neither bailed out nor coached against Danzo. Don't see where you came up with that from.
As said with Ae, I never mentioned taijutsu at all. And
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, Madara blind.
The crow wasn't meant for him nor was that any excuse to use Amaterasu on it.
It was hardly vague, I wrote it out quite clear. I suggest you work on your reading comprehension.
Im a separate everything you wrote from beginning to end and im a answer it underneath. Ok?
HG Swells said:
Was Kakashi a life threatening situation?
Yes, because kakashi has experience, and the longer he was there with kakashi the more ninja's would come, and he wasn't looking for Konoha vs Kisame & itachi. So yes it was.
HG Swells said:
How about pushing Sasuke back and breaking the wall to find Kabuto? Or killing the crow?
Please say that aloud. That sounds vague and makes me think ok and lots of ninja's can break a wall and...?. He's an edo his eyes heal instantaneously, so yeah. I answered everything before jus re answering, since your twisting what your saying now. The crow, if kabuto is able to bring light into eyes that lost their light what's saying he won't be able to use hashirama's cells to make shishui's eyes usable sooner like danzo did. Amaterasu would permanently destroy the eye beyond repair. So neccesary.
HG Swells said:
How is facing a transformed Jinchuuriki, the (second) fastest ninja in the world and then several Kages at once, and as far as he knew, the Hokage of Konoha not similar situations?
Because a jinchurikki is a jinchurriki thats like saying whats the different between an apple and a orange. Also there were 5 kages, 6 if you include the leaders of the samurai. Also, he faced them one at a time like survival mode. Do you forget Mizukage sealed off the hallway so she can use her acid tech. Then he broke the wall with susano to escape and he ran out of chakra then it was Tscuhikage vs Sasuke, which Susano wouldnt of tanked, because he was out of. He ran from gaara, didnt really fight him, he cut the pillars. Danzo he fought after they left the summit. Do you really find the sword clash with mifune a real fight? So no its not like kages vs madara, it was completely different. So they are not similar situations. Also he had Taka there for the jinchurriki it was 4 vs 1 with bee having no back up and it wasnt round robin and he still lost? He failed to capture him which results in a loss.
HG Swells said:
You're acting as if these are every day people he was facing. The only reason Itachi didn't seem to use it more was because he was dying, since as soon as he became an Edo summon, he had no trouble using it at every chance he got. Heck, Madara when facing two Kages, had no trouble relying on his Susanoo.
So your claim that it's how MS is suppose to be used was proven false in the series itself.
Actually your claim is false and you have nothing to prove how long madara had his MS before he became blind and took Izuna's MS to have an EMS. His EMS makes your claim false, because we are talking about MS not EMS, and EMS doesnt allow you to go blind. So im actually proven correct. I'm also proven right via this.
HG Swells said:
Um, no. Against Ae, Sasuke attempted to use a genjutsu til he saw it wasn't gonna work, then used his Chidori Blade and Chidori which both proved ineffective too. He didn't rely on his MS til he saw how strong Ae was.
HG Swells said:
HIs battle with Ae was mainly regular technique before he needed to switch to MS
Why, because he didn't train any of his other tech's itachi did a whole bunch of regular training. Itachi can use shadow clones, crow genjutsu and various other tech's. Itachi who was previously alive used deception vs kakashi kurenai and asuma. Sasuke doesn't use this. Itachi which we can agree on is a more experienced uchiha than sasuke. Meaning he doesn't rely on his MS tech's he relies on the foundation, and the only reason he used his MS techs in konoha was to foreshadow sasuke's power, and his attitude in the future
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So your saying 2 regular tech's is most of the fight? Really….
HG Swells said:
Against Danzo, Sasuke used two of his Chidori Spear, regular sword several times, Great Fireball, weapon summoning, and an attempted Chidori. HIs battle with Ae was mainly regular technique before he needed to switch to MS, and against Danzo it was an even split.
I answered A above.
Please show links of sasuke using regular sword 7 times.
It was alot more MS then regular, techs and karin coaching him, honestly if you think about it current taka(sasuke and karin) vs team danzo (danzo, torune, fu) you really think sasuke would of won? But lets not think on that. As soon as danzo went to punch him he didnt even try to evade/block he went straight for susano. He hit him with amaterasu once, and no danzo did break tsuykiomi go look at OP, it wasnt because of his curse mark, because it happened afterwards, and sasuke broke his curse seal, so he could of broke it and kept going if it was because of his tsuyi. Tsukyi can only be broken, if you break the genjutsu, or get chakra surged into you. OP for support. Yes sasuke can't control it and his curse binding helped danzo, because your right he should of been gutted, but he wasnt but it was because of DANZO's tech not because of anyones saying. I'll give that to you, but anyone who gets hit with tsukyiomi, feels the affect of it whether partial or full. But danzo wasn't affected at all so his tsuyi failed, and was more on the lines of a regular genjutsu.
See sasuke vs Itachi, when itachi hit him with tsuyki.
HG Swells said:
Also, he stated he was testing his EMS out when he used it against the Zetsus, the only time he solely relied on it.
You realize he has only regular sharingan and EMS, he doesn't have MS anymore, because EMS has taken it over, because he has his brother eyes on his own, meaning he cant use regular MS, because he doesn't have his own light he has ETERNAL Light, and he burned his light out causing his MS to die, so now he only has sharingan and EMS. I know you'll say i have no proof, but my proof is this. Why would he use MS and burn out his eyes, if he has EMS, which has all of MS tech's and not burn out his eyes. Think about it?
HG Swells said:
What are you referring to? The fight with Ae? Anyway, you claim those techniques were only suppose to be used under life threatening situations and clearly that's not true, as we specifically know Madara used his MS enough that he became blind long before that of his brother and afterward still tended to use his MS techniques in situations where he didn't actually require them.
We don't know how long madara, had MS, before he went blind. Uchiha well at least madara, and sasuke are ran by hate. Itachi on the other hand and his mother wasn't they were very supportive, and there is always the alternate way to live, and his hate and lust for power caused them to go blind, but obvioulsy itachi saw a better path, and he had it for a while. Sasuke didnt' have MS nearly as long as either madara, or Itachi, and his mother was very supportive of sasuke.
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Itachi even shows his brother love even being an uchiha where they are supposedly "hate driven" itachi has more senju qualities love driven.
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Itachi getting into anbu:
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Him entering anbu: We can conclude since he just entered he was about 11-13: Basically when your anbu your a jonin: for all intents and purposes lets say 10: he was a jonin. We know at the age of 10 he was a chunnin.
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Itachi the night before or the night of he killed shishui for his eye:
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Parents supporting the secretive mission:
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Proof taking shishui's eye:
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Shishui's eyes being in a crow do i need to go get that really…
Itachi being in anbu for at least half a year: So lets say hes 11 and a half now at this age for intents and purpose.
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Itachi having MS between 11-12: he's still in leaf still in anbu:
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The awkward event was itachi's dad not knowing what to do with him.
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again MS before 13:
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For those saying sharingan makes you jonin: Observe the word master. Meaning 3 tomoe.
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Itachi probablby being 13 here left the village immediately:
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Itachi with all intents purposes here wanted to give sasuke the EMS: EMS= (MS brother/sister+MS brother/sister)
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according to databook sasuke graduated academy at 12, and had full sharingan at 13:
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according to Databook itachi died at 21….
and had his mangekyou at 12(wish i did the databook research earlier)
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If you compare itachi age vs sasuke:
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Itachi was 5 when sasuke was born.
Needless to say he fought kakashi when he was about 20-21 ad he had the MS for 8 years with light in his eyes.
Sasuke got his MS at 13 and went blind fighting kakashi. hes at oldest 14 and thats a stretch for me to believe according to databook, when he fought hachibi he's 13yrs and 6 months.
Sasuke probably had his for like 2 weeks - 2 months.
Madara, definitely isn't as rash as sasuke, we can tell by there personality difference, he wanted power but was more methodical and analytic sasuke wasn't. This being said sasuke burnt out his eyes within 2weeks-2months(i really think it was 2 weeks). Itachi and Madara had there for years and Sasuke used his MS techs what like 20 times. So with this proof i can say they didn't use their MS every chance they got. BOOYAH-KAH =D.
Itachi then fights sasuke again at well we know but he was suppose to get EMS.
Also madara is an edo and has EMS see above for details.
HG Swells said:
I was referring to Itachi using Tsukuyomi on Kakashi all the way back in Part One? That was not a life and death situation and it was made clear Itachi could have dealt with him without it, yet Itachi still used his MS, so claiming he only used it under life threatening situations is false.
Exactly, we see that Itachi has no problem drawing upon his MS when he has the option to. It's not "being reserved" for life and death threats anymore.
Answered both these earlier next.
HG Swells said:
Again, I have no idea what you're referring to. Are you talking about the one used against Danzo? Sasuke wasn't the one under the genjutsu.
If you have the links, then you would see it that Sasuke attempted to use several of his regular techniques before he had to use Susanoo to protect himself. He didn't use MS until his life was threaten, which you admitted was when it's suppose to be used.
As you see sasuke and itachi can both see chakra, it wouldnt matter if they were under or not under genjutsu, they can see the range of attacks, because they can see chakra
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Please stop making excuses, why he didn't know danzo was under genjutsu i know how inzangi works, and i know how the sharingan works, you probably didn't even read the op, the databook link, or the wiki leak, or the manga chapters i gave you. End of story, he can see chakra, so he can see the attack range of the genjutsu, and what it's effecting who its affecting, and chakra disturbances.
And no send me links to sasuke using 7 regualr techs against danzo i read the manga and didn't see it you have to show that to me thank you. I didn't ask for him breaking a wall, because i thought that was honestly funny you sent me a link of him breaking a wall when every nin can do that.
HG Swells said:
I'm quite sure I was being clear. The point was that Sasuke using his MS when fighting against the likes of the Kages is hardly uncalled for as we have seen and even in such situations, he still tends to use it as a last resort.
Um, no. He was already out of Kabto's control. He killed the crow because it wasn't any use anymore and that's the point. He clearly didn't need to use Amaterasu just to kill it.
He hardly uses his regular eyes if his eyes cant keep up he goes MS, he could get better chakra control and see better like naruto can in the terms of SPEED.
Also stop making excuses for him that he wasnt expecting a fight. He knew there be sensor nins there, because all of NarutoVerse's VIP's would be there and the only reason they didnt sense him earlier was, because danzo using shishui's eye see OP.
No the crow broke the edo… tensei spell. And i explained why he burned it ealier. He's an edo he doesn't have to obey the MS rules and regulations now his eyes heal stop being combative for combativeness sake, because your being illogical.
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HG Swells said:
ou're referring to the Kages and Kirabi as every day people? These are the most elite people in a village. The top tier. And the only two Sasuke fought who were alone were Danzo and Kirabi. And his MS did have an effect on Itachi's sickness, as we saw when he fought Sasuke.
Um, Madara has used his Susanoo nearly the entire time we have seen him. And he's not testing anything, he's playing around.
Sasuke didn't use his sword to block an attack, but to attack.
To akatsuki People like A, and jinchuriki, and kages, are everyday people. It's what they do its who they take on, and if he wasn't ready to take them on, which akatsuki does because its what they do and its on the level they operate, and they do it SOLO. Then he shouldn't of joined and did some more research. See above in previous post. Deidara vs 3 tails. Oro vs konoha, and oro was in akatsuki.
And sasuke never had MS when he fought itachi, so his MS had no affect on itachi.
Madara stopped using susano for a long time and used mokuton clones and asked which do you prefer. and i agree he is playing around.
Give me links to danzo vs sasuke and his 7 taijutsu attacks regular or nin tech plz. I'm giving you links.
HG Swells said:
Um, no, that wasn't the crow's purpose. The crow was meant for Sasuke, not for Itachi. And him being an Edo summon means little. Hanzou was an Edo summon, yet he still breathed seeing as he was affected by his own poison, the Nidaime Mizukage was shown tired after creating Jokey Boi, and Itachi was shown affected by Kabuto's paralyzing sound dragon. Heck, when Itachi used Amaterasu, he began to bleed from his eye. Not to mention the fact that Itachi's under a genjutsu, which means he must have a working mind. So it's obviously that even the Edo summons are still affected by physical limitations.
And no, no one witnessing MS before simply meant they never survived the encounter.
I'm a answer this as simply as possible. If they were affected by physical limitations, when itachi was skewered by the cavern, or when ninja's were cut in half or destroyed. They wouldn't of been resurrected via edo tensei and have all their chakra back now would they? I think i solved that their. And do you see itachi holding his eye and rithing in pain like he used to no. His eye's just bleeds sasuke still does, just because they are edo's doesnt mean they dont feel fatigue, they do, but they get resurrected, after they die and reform and their chakra get renewed. See madara when he threw the meteor actually i'll get it for you.
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Look what he says does he even look tired him or Mu
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So yah i hardly see your point saying it means nothing that their edo's. It means alot… Next.
HG Swells said:
And no, no one witnessing MS before simply meant they never survived the encounter.
Only other people to unlock MS besides itachi and sasuke were Izuna, and Madara. And i proved my point earlier how many times did sasuke use ms techs. Yah….
HG Swells said:
Sasuke never intended to fight at the summit. That was made clear. Their original plan was simply to find what Danzo looked like and then ambushed him on the way back to Konoha. They had a whole discussion about it. The only reason he had to fight was because White Zetsu set him up by revealing him to the Kages.
And until Ae grabbed him and was about to murder him, Sasuke hadn't used his MS, so your point was clearly wrong.
Um, no I haven't. In neither of my posts did I mention taijutsu at all. Reread them for yourself.
Um,
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, which happen right before he choose to use Chidori.
Stop making excuses for him i explained he would of been sensed anyways so your point is mute. And he used like 4 physical moves maybe 3 and you count that as A MAJOR PART OF THE FIGHT, and yes you did see above i have everything you wrote quoted, and i saw that….
unless this part you werent talking about A give me the person your talking about you were being vauge with this and i assumed you was talking about A
HG Swells said:
HIs battle with Ae was mainly regular technique before he needed to switch to MS,
Alot of sasuke's tech's are taijutsu via kenjutsu and chidori. He rarely uses fire techs which are his long/midrange techs. and Lightning techs are mid range and he rarely used any so technically you did talk about taijutsu, because the tech's he used were taijutsu, and 1 failed genjutsu.
HG Swells said:
If you have the links, then you would see it that Sasuke attempted to use several of his regular techniques before he had to use Susanoo to protect himself. He didn't use MS until his life was threaten, which you admitted was when it's suppose to be used.
Show me the links please.
HG Swells said:
What are you talking about? Itachi had Kakashi on the run and he wasn't even using his full power. Even Kakashi admitted that. There was no life and death situation there nor a need to use his MS when a regular genjutsu would have worked just as well.
Um, I don't think you understand how Izanagi works.
If all the leaf would of came there, because kakashi has a 3 tomoe sharingan, and sharingan specifically allows you to see threw genjutsu if it isn't a MS+ tech and if it is messing with the viual sense aka visual genjutsu . I think you need to understand how genjutsu works, and the sharingan works. I know how inzanagi works.
Genjutsu:
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See sharingan.
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see Databook as well
Sharingan - Copying Wheel
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You can read for youself.
HG Swells said:
Which doesn't at all change my original point about your random assumption as to how MS is suppose to be used. And what excuses did I make towards Danzo again? Also, Danzo didn't break sasuke's Tsukuyomi. He was still in it when Sasuke got trapped by his seal. It merely wore out, since as he mentioned, the lack of time manipulation like with Itachi's meant that Sasuke's followed real world time. Degrading Danzo because of his age and ignoring the fact that he had one of the most Haxed abilities? Note that Izanagi was the only think that allowed Danzo to even fight as long as he did, instead of being murdered in the first two minutes.
It shows that he too has no issue with using his MS whenever he wants to, not merely in life and death situations.
Um, I said that they fought him alone...
Who did they fight alone be specific jeez so vague.
answered how he broke tsyukyi and im a show you sasuke when he experienced tsukyi because he was feeling the affects.
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You see him holding his eye right, obviously it had some affect. Sasuke's had no effect. next.
And sasuke has no issue, because he is rash and doesnt think about the consequences, how long did it take him to lose his light. Also you realize kishi didn't allow danzo to use shishui's eye, because he could of told sasuke to kill himself with genjutsu and he would of easy as that. So no kishi did sasuke a favor.
HG Swells said:
He did eventually fight them all at once. Gaara didn't want to, but he did anyway because it was his duty. This was actually shown in the manga. Why did he need bailing out by Zetsu? Oh right, because he had just been moments before fighting two Kages. Same with Onoki. The fact that you're ignoring that all the events were within moments of each other says it all.
And he was neither bailed out nor coached against Danzo. Don't see where you came up with that from.
Until it was like 5 kages vs madara you cant say that. Because it wasnt that scenario it was separate 1 kage vs sasuke at a time, and he got healed 2x.. Please… the manga is there. go read it yourself you cant compare all 5 at once vs 5 at seperate times completely not getting involved just give it a break.
oh yes you dont see karin coaching sasuke, or Tobi using S/T to save him from the explosion get real. Please tell me how sasuke escaped this because he doesnt have S/T and even tobi infers he saved him please…
FYI: His eyes has been in MS mode since this: and this fight continues like 3m more chapters Please.
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Karin:
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The start of her helping analyze danzo fight to give advice to sasuke:
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Karin coaching so sasuke can make a random dodge
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Karin's coaching continued:
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Do i need to continue really:
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Tobi:
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Everything i explained i think you need to throughly analyze what your reading:
Thank you for playing.
.
