Hiruzen (god debate)

[Owarij]

as any of those elders stated that hiruzen is a god or the strongest?! I dont think so.

WTF? first you say no one in the village lived in the time with hashirama,

now you're saying the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen, have we seen the elders praise anyone??

I mean people that saw him during the war time before konoha was established.

Hashirama Before Konoha, and Hashirama After Konoha = Same person , same powers

Infact, the hashirama after konoha would be stronger than his younger self.. try again

 

[Akatsuki wise guy]

hashirama would stomp hiruzen into the ground he has no chance.

 

[iknowwhotobiis]

WTF? first you say no one in the village lived in the time with hashirama,

now you're saying the most ridiculous thing i've ever seen, have we seen the elders praise anyone??

i said i could be wrong, didnt you read?! And i never said they have praised anyone that proves my point that no one from hashi era has called hiruzen the strongest. Only people from this generation who have no idea how powerful he was since he is only a fairly tale. His power is not even considered the same way jiraya and kakashi thought the SO6p was not real. Since, hiruzen was alive during this time, it is normal for people from this era to think he was the strongest...

And you guys always use his old age to explain why he was so weak vs oro. Even Chiyo at age of 73 was not as bad as hiruzen lol

 

[Owarij]

i said i could be wrong, didnt you read?! And i never said they have praised anyone that proves my point that no one from hashi era has called hiruzen the strongest. Only people from this generation have no idea how powerful he was since he is only a fairly tale. His power is not even considered the same way jiraya and kakashi thought the SO6p was not real. Since, hiruzen was alive during this time, it is normal for people from this era to think he was the strongest...

/sigh what part don't you get, by the whole leaf village praised him as the strongest of all the hokage? god of shinobi , and called him professor?


In the leaf village there are ninja who are as old as danzo, there are non ninja , aka normal folks, like sasuke's grandmother etc.. who were aas old as danzo, and would have seen and known hashi and tobirama....
Tsunade was a little kid, and knew of his powers..

Minato came LONG after tobirama and knew of his powers
You honestly have no point what so ever

Hiruzen is a man trained by BOTH hashirama and tobirama ,
someone that though was in his teens.... Tobirama saw strong enough to be the Hokage...

And you guys always use his old age to explain why he was so weak vs oro. Even Chiyo at age of 73 was not as bad as hiruzen lol

As an excuse? what??? it's kishi who wrote the manga not me

It's kishi who told us his strength was decreased due to old age, so much that he had trouble holding enma... That his entire fighting was off and it was nothing like him
That his chakra levels decreased so much he couldn't use high level jutsu
That his movements were all sluggish
Panting for breath etc..

 

[iknowwhotobiis]

/sigh what part don't you get, by the whole leaf village praised him as the strongest of all the hokage? god of shinobi , and called him professor?


In the leaf village there are ninja who are as old as danzo, there are non ninja , aka normal folks, like sasuke's grandmother etc.. who were aas old as danzo, and would have seen and known hashi and tobirama....
Tsunade was a little kid, and knew of his powers..

Minato came LONG after tobirama and knew of his powers
You honestly have no point what so ever

Hiruzen is a man trained by BOTH hashirama and tobirama ,
someone that though was in his teens.... Tobirama saw strong enough to be the Hokage...

I already answered you there was not only one god of shinobi, just because no one called hashi a god does not mean hiruzen is stronger than him.

just out of curiosity so in your opinion hiruzen prime = second strongest person in narutoverse after SO6P?!

 

[Owarij]

I already answered you there was not one god of shinobi, just because no one called hashi a god does not mean hiruzen is stronger than him.

THERE WERE TWO GODS of shinobi.. how many times must i tell you this?

And it shows he has more hype than hashirama..

you wouldn't say Sakumo is weaker than ten ten right?
not after what minato said about kakashi's father..

getting boring arguing with you, attack me with some good points :|

just out of curiosity so in your opinion hiruzen prime = second strongest person in narutoverse after SO6P?!

Ofc not, Hiruzen prime can't beat many characters

Nagato
Kabuto
Tobi

I never said he was the strongest naruto character.... the people i listed above would demolish him, minato, tsunade and hashirama..

I said what manga and databooks have said

He was the strongest kage of his time
He was The strongest hokage
He was called the professor
He was called the God of shinobi


^Those are my beliefs, things stated in the manga

As far as i'm concerned this is what was stated about Hashirama

He was the strongest ninja of his time
There are other ninja who are on his level that are dead


Tobirama
One of the strongest of his time

Minato
Genius once every decade
Talent to become the strongest ever


Tsunade
Genius medical ninja
Stronger than A

 

[iknowwhotobiis]

THERE WERE TWO GODS of shinobi.. how many times must i tell you this?

And it shows he has more hype than hashirama..

you wouldn't say Sakumo is weaker than ten ten right?
not after what minato said about kakashi's father..

getting boring arguing with you, attack me with some good points :|

where does it say there were two gods?! and after you answer my previous question I will be done here.

 

[SSS12]

No way, he can't PERFORM Edo or FTG, but he is aware of them. I doubt he could do Rasengan either. Since you're so fixed on taking manga quotes as the final word, I'm sure you remember Tsunade talking to Jiraiya and asking him whether he's trying to teach naruto the rasengan. She then states that ONLY HE AND THE FOURTH HOKAGE CAN USE IT. I can't be bothered to dig this page out in the manga. But this was when she challenges Naruto to a fight when they meet for the first time.
SO THERE.

 

[Owarij]

No way, he can't PERFORM Edo or FTG, but he is aware of them. I doubt he could do Rasengan either. Since you're so fixed on taking manga quotes as the final word, I'm sure you remember Tsunade talking to Jiraiya and asking him whether he's trying to teach naruto the rasengan. She then states that ONLY HE AND THE FOURTH HOKAGE CAN USE IT. I can't be bothered to dig this page out in the manga. But this was when she challenges Naruto to a fight when they meet for the first time.
SO THERE.

Urm? manga never said hiruzen knows rasengan ,

Manga NEVER said hiruzen knows all konoha jutsu

I recommend you go back and reread the manga, then reread this thread

 

[iknowwhotobiis]

@owarij

fair enough I understand the point you are trying to make but my main problem is that hiruzen has not done anything remarkable in the past. That is what holds me from naming him the strongest of all kages.

Also, I am fairly positive that kishi will soon show us why hashirama was the strongest hokage. By soon i mean when madara loses and kishi shows us his past.

One last question, since you seem to be so knowledge in naruto, who is tobi in your opinion?!

 

[SSS12]

Urm? manga never said hiruzen knows rasengan ,

Manga NEVER said hiruzen knows all konoha jutsu

I recommend you go back and reread the manga, then reread this thread

I'm not talking about the manga, I'm taking about what this guy has said in this thread. Plz stop jumping to your own conclusions. This guy has said that Hiruzen knew all konoha jutsus. So i strongly suggest YOU read the thread before talking.

 

[Lt Iceman]

No didn't read because no one besides the Sage can be called god

When Hiruzen can creae the moon then I will be reading and debating in this kind of threads

 

[Owarij]

No didn't read because no one besides the Sage can be called god

When Hiruzen can creae the moon then I will be reading and debating in this kind of threads

? God of shinobi is a term for someone who mastered all forms of shinobi aspects..

Ninjutsu, genjutsu, taijutsu,
all the elements...

something only the so6p had done... noone thinks hiruzen can create a moon..

 

[Gouryuuka]

Sigh. What people don't understand is how to use the phrase "God of Shinobi". Hashirama was a powerful ninja, and we have recently seen the extent of his powerful abilities. BUT the key to being a shinobi 'god' or 'god' of any type of practice is the knowledge behind everything.

The difference between Hashirama and Hiruzen are clear if you analyze it this way:

Hashirama:
-Powerful Mokuton ninjutsu and probably had mastery over water and earth style.
-Medical ninjutsu on a high level of self regeneration

Hiruzen:
-Hailed as professor due to his knowledge of seemingly every type of ninjutsu.
-Mastery over the jutsus he knew.

The reason why Hiruzen is on par with SO6P is because he has the KNOWLEDGE of power. Hashirama only has the POWER aspect of the equation. Hashirama and Hiruzen were both powerful. But Hiruzen was able to become proficient over ninjutsu thus making him a 'god'. Universal knowledge is what embodies a god of any type of practice. Universal power only hails you as the most powerful shinobi of your time.

 

[Uchihas with Big Guns]

Hiruzen most likely knew every clans abilities using them is completely different but jutsu like ftg edo tensi rasengan & gates accompanied his clone & elemental knowledge
At the end of the day he knew all hashirama & tobirama even minatos jutsu this is y in my opinion he could beat any of them

Hiruzen = god mc

 

[iknowwhotobiis]

wasnt pain considered a god as well?!

 

[Owarij]

@owarij

fair enough I understand the point you are trying to make but my main problem is that hiruzen has not done anything remarkable in the past. That is what holds me from naming him the strongest of all kages.

Also, I am fairly positive that kishi will soon show us why hashirama was the strongest hokage. By soon i mean when madara loses and kishi shows us his past.

One last question, since you seem to be so knowledge in naruto, who is tobi in your opinion?!

The only reason i believe hiruzen will beat him, is well, other than the fact that in his prime he was extremely strong

hiruzen has the advantage.. he was taught by them and would know all their jutsu....

In the kage fight, knowing about flower world was detrimental... tsunade was the only one who knew because she met him and possibly saw him fight..

Hiruzen knows everything about him, but hashi would know almost nothing about prime hiruzen...

Spoiler

As for tobi, Sigh that's a tricky one
Imo , he has something to do with Madara... I don't know how,but

He has all the memories of Madara, down to every detail, i don't understand how any random ninja could get that information..

Not only that but he has some close bond to Madara also..
When he was telling sasuke his story about his brother izuna, and how he gave up his eyes
he pictured izuna with no eyes and smiling, then Grasped his arm tightly...
That wasn't some act, he actually felt emotions when thinking about izuna.. after that he started shouting etcc" Why did my brother give his eyes for"


Then Things like "That jutsu was made for me"
When the jutsu was actually made for madara... Same thing with the entire konan situation...He sometimes thinks he's actually madara.. he was calling himself Madara when he was alone with zetsu ....

Small things like these just hint it away to him being Madara

On top of that , itachi and kisame has seen his face and call him Madara..
Of course however Madara is long dead.. all that remains is a statue..
There are pictures and potraits in naruto however, so it isn't unbeliavable that Itachi knows how he looks or looked.. but even that is just specuation ..

Who ever tobi is, Madara gave clear instructions on what to do.. IDK if Madara made him/created him, But their plan was to give nagato , madara's rinnegan.. make him create a jutsu to revive madara

that was rinne tensei.. of course that failed due to naruto..Nagato used rinne tensei on konoha ninja instead..
The small problem with their plan is the issue of the body... Madara's body would have been long rotted.... unless tobi froze itlol

Rinne tensei takes a soul from the outer world or w.e and places it in a body.. It's what tobi had nagato create....Where would they put Madara's soul?
My guess Is that Tobi was going to be the container.. Thus his whole , shell of my former self..
Madara's soul though rinne tensei was going to be plucked into tobi, and they would become one,

then there's the whole zetsu thing, we still have no idea what black zetsu is..
and Tobi undoubtedly has body parts made of zetsu...
sigh , too much mind ****

 

[Owarij]

wasnt pain considered a god as well?!

Yea, though he self proclaimed himself god mostly
his villagers ended up calling him it

and yea, nagato could use all the elements , and mastered them since 10, so he was another one who deserved that title In a way..
but his title was just -God,

the term god really is someone who is all powerful and all knowing

A shinobi god would be someone who is all powerful in terms of ninjas, and all knowing..
hiruzen had the best of both worlds.. rediculously strong, and someone who understood ninjutsu... mastered all types of it.. his databook scores show that..

 

[iknowwhotobiis]

The only reason i believe hiruzen will beat him, is well, other than the fact that in his prime he was extremely strong

hiruzen has the advantage.. he was taught by them and would know all their jutsu....

In the kage fight, knowing about flower world was detrimental... tsunade was the only one who knew because she met him and possibly saw him fight..

Hiruzen knows everything about him, but hashi would know almost nothing about prime hiruzen...

Spoiler

As for tobi, Sigh that's a tricky one
Imo , he has something to do with Madara... I don't know how,but

He has all the memories of Madara, down to every detail, i don't understand how any random ninja could get that information..

Not only that but he has some close bond to Madara also..
When he was telling sasuke his story about his brother izuna, and how he gave up his eyes
he pictured izuna with no eyes and smiling, then Grasped his arm tightly...
That wasn't some act, he actually felt emotions when thinking about izuna.. after that he started shouting etcc" Why did my brother give his eyes for"


Then Things like "That jutsu was made for me"
When the jutsu was actually made for madara... Same thing with the entire konan situation...He sometimes thinks he's actually madara.. he was calling himself Madara when he was alone with zetsu ....

Small things like these just hint it away to him being Madara

On top of that , itachi and kisame has seen his face and call him Madara..
Of course however Madara is long dead.. all that remains is a statue..
There are pictures and potraits in naruto however, so it isn't unbeliavable that Itachi knows how he looks or looked.. but even that is just specuation ..

Who ever tobi is, Madara gave clear instructions on what to do.. IDK if Madara made him/created him, But their plan was to give nagato , madara's rinnegan.. make him create a jutsu to revive madara

that was rinne tensei.. of course that failed due to naruto..Nagato used rinne tensei on konoha ninja instead..
The small problem with their plan is the issue of the body... Madara's body would have been long rotted.... unless tobi froze itlol

Rinne tensei takes a soul from the outer world or w.e and places it in a body.. It's what tobi had nagato create....Where would they put Madara's soul?
My guess Is that Tobi was going to be the container.. Thus his whole , shell of my former self..
Madara's soul though rinne tensei was going to be plucked into tobi, and they would become one,

then there's the whole zetsu thing, we still have no idea what black zetsu is..
and Tobi undoubtedly has body parts made of zetsu...
sigh , too much mind ****

thanks!

 

[Uchihas with Big Guns]

Sigh. What people don't understand is how to use the phrase "God of Shinobi". Hashirama was a powerful ninja, and we have recently seen the extent of his powerful abilities. BUT the key to being a shinobi 'god' or 'god' of any type of practice is the knowledge behind everything.

The difference between Hashirama and Hiruzen are clear if you analyze it this way:

Hashirama:
-Powerful Mokuton ninjutsu and probably had mastery over water and earth style.
-Medical ninjutsu on a high level of self regeneration

Hiruzen:
-Hailed as professor due to his knowledge of seemingly every type of ninjutsu.
-Mastery over the jutsus he knew.

The reason why Hiruzen is on par with SO6P is because he has the KNOWLEDGE of power. Hashirama only has the POWER aspect of the equation. Hashirama and Hiruzen were both powerful. But Hiruzen was able to become proficient over ninjutsu thus making him a 'god'. Universal knowledge is what embodies a god of any type of practice. Universal power only hails you as the most powerful shinobi of your time.

False both the senju & uchiha mastered all aspects of shinobi /battle making hashirama more than just moukton but good with weapons seals taijutsu genjutsu & ninjutsu
Hiruzen being his student just surpassed him that's all

hashirama was hiruzen with a kekgenkai similar to hanzo being madara without one
Hashirama & madara were hiruzen & hanzo of their era shinobi idolized for their skill & strength