Why jiraiya > itachi full detailed thread on this subject.

[Henchman24]

First flaw, Itachi didn't intend to kill Sasuke, he wanted to reach his limit earlier. You can't escape from the Sharingans sight by just running away, this is bullshit. As long as you can't escape from the Sharingans sight, he can hit you with a single glance.

I'm tired now, will enlighten you tomorrow if I have the time..

But Itachi is clearly stronger, your post wasn't needed :*

Incorrect.

 

[BlackGamabunta]

i could still remember when itachi with kisame went to look for naruto and jiraiya was there...itachi used his amaterasu, the black flame to escape. with this scenario, i could draw a conclusion that itachi is afraid of jiraiya or they are on the same side so escape is the best option to cover...

 

[home]

Ehm, A combined his Raiton no Yoroi lv. 2 with his Shunshin no Jutsu, he was to fast for Sasukes sight..look how Amaterasu instantly appears before the Raikage, but he's too fast for Sasukes sight. This isn't a comparison to Jiraiya.

Itachi would beat Jiraiya in his Senninmode imo, but since he needs about 5 Minutes to reach him, it would be a fight single Jiraiya against Itachi with his abilities, intellect, Sharingan and Mangekyou Sharingan.

Clearly obvious Itachi is > Jiraiya. I mean Jiraiya is a Sannin like Orochimaru and lost against him. Itachi defeated Orochimaru with mere Genjutsus. Itachi is one of the most dangerous opponents because not only he uses excellent and strong Ninjutsu and Taijutsu, he uses powerful Genjutsus which affect the opponents mind - the humans weakest spot.

firstly, oro never lost to itachi, he merely realized that judging by the swiftness of the genjutsu he would lose against itachi in a real fight (do you really think orochimaru the man who strived to learn every jutsu in the world wouldnt have nough chakra control to break out of a simple genjutsu?)

secondly when did jman lose to oro in a fair fight?

oh and btw how do you propose itachi is going to deal with multiple summons the size of sky scrapers? i mean he can only use the 3 MS jutsu once each so he wont be able to take them all down with that and they all can break each other out of genjutsu. and none of the ninjutsu that itachi has shown could do much damage to someone the size of gamabunta or someone with SM level resistance to damage (apart from his MS jutsu which as i said con only be used 2-3 times overall)

And anyway itachi admitted that he was inferior or equal to jman (and dont say "he just didnt want to hurt anyone" or "he wasnt trying as he wasnt against konoha") because he had no moral problem fighting with fighting asuma, kakashi, gai, kurenai, naruto and sasuke.

 

[BlackGamabunta]

firstly, oro never lost to itachi, he merely realized that judging by the swiftness of the genjutsu he would lose against itachi in a real fight (do you really think orochimaru the man who strived to learn every jutsu in the world wouldnt have nough chakra control to break out of a simple genjutsu?)

secondly when did jman lose to oro?

during the 3 sannins fight...

 

[Blaze Release]

About the reverse summoning that allowed pa frog to summon naruto back to konoha without a frog in sight in konoha, evades even me because im not sure how he did that. Now i know that kishi states something then later on in another character whether due to plot no jutsu or whatever he contradicts himself and we have seen examples of this many times.

Anyway its a manga fact that in order to summon the person must be at that location. Example is sasuke's situation. After summoning manda he hid in its mouth then reversed summon to evade c0;

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If it wasnt for suigetsu, sasuke would've been trapped in the snake location where manda came from;

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The toads situation is no different. When naruto was leaving to learn sm, he was reversed summoned to the toads location;

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Ma frog was already around konoha and reversed summoned naruto and co back to where she is;

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When all were at konoha fighting pain, naruto had a summoning scroll which allowed him to reverse summoning one of his sm clones with that scroll;

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That ^^^ is the law with summong and reverse summoning.

Later in the manga, pa frog reserved summoned naruto when he was at the ramen shop. This still follows the manga law;

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This is where the law contradicts itself. Pa then returns naruto to konoha without him being there or having any sort of medium;

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Basically in order to summon something, the user firstly needs to be at that location . They then need to form either seals, use a scroll or create a summoning contract seal with the help of blood.

In order to reverse summon its the same procedure. The user must be at a location for them to reserve summon, what they intend. Similarly with the user of a scroll, handseals or summoning seal.

The question is how was pa frog able to reverse summon naruto back to konona, when he wasnt at konoha (pa frog). The only logical explanation is that if a person summons you, they alone can reserve summon you without following this law (being at the location where they reverse summon you).

So unless somehow jiraiya can contact pa frog to summon him to the frog location, then pa frog reverse summonings him to the battle location, he cannot do this. Not that sm will lead to any prevail

 

[Turson]

Heh, creator of this thread admitted that he was wrong yesterday, but Jiraiya fanboys just keep coming and coming.

 

[Unorthodox]

About the reverse summoning that allowed pa frog to summon naruto back to konoha without a frog in sight in konoha, evades even me because im not sure how he did that. Now i know that kishi states something then later on in another character whether due to plot no jutsu or whatever he contradicts himself and we have seen examples of this many times.

Anyway its a manga fact that in order to summon the person must be at that location. Example is sasuke's situation. After summoning manda he hid in its mouth then reversed summon to evade c0;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

If it wasnt for suigetsu, sasuke would've been trapped in the snake location where manda came from;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

The toads situation is no different. When naruto was leaving to learn sm, he was reversed summoned to the toads location;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Ma frog was already around konoha and reversed summoned naruto and co back to where she is;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

When all were at konoha fighting pain, naruto had a summoning scroll which allowed him to reverse summoning one of his sm clones with that scroll;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

That ^^^ is the law with summong and reverse summoning.

Later in the manga, pa frog reserved summoned naruto when he was at the ramen shop. This still follows the manga law;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

This is where the law contradicts itself. Pa then returns naruto to konoha without him being there or having any sort of medium;

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Basically in order to summon something, the user firstly needs to be at that location . They then need to form either seals, use a scroll or create a summoning contract seal with the help of blood.

In order to reverse summon its the same procedure. The user must be at a location for them to reserve summon, what they intend. Similarly with the user of a scroll, handseals or summoning seal.

The question is how was pa frog able to reverse summon naruto back to konona, when he wasnt at konoha (pa frog). The only logical explanation is that if a person summons you, they alone can reserve summon you without following this law (being at the location where they reverse summon you).

So unless somehow jiraiya can contact pa frog to summon him to the frog location, then pa frog reverse summonings him to the battle location, he cannot do this. Not that sm will lead to any prevail

was all that needed

 

[Avani 👑]

they're even, end of story.

ONly if Fans let it be. :|

reinforcement to your thread

jiraiya can also seal amaterasu...

jiraiya is probably the only ninja who can survive even after being hit by amaterasu watch this ^^^

Amaterasu can be blocked by anything an opponant is fast enough to set on the visual path of the user, Gara showed when he used his sand shield to ward it off. Yamato used earth to make way through black flames.

Wheather Jiraiya would be able to ward it off, or seal the flames in time will depend on the cricumstancs.

Agreed. Greed and Ambition got the better of Orochimaru. As for Amaterasu'ing Jiraiya in the hallway, Itachi requires TIME to use Amaterasu. He closes the eye for plenty of time for Jiraiya to know whats up. People seem to forget that. As for Tsukiyomi, shadow clones are a good counter to that one, and Jiraiya is adept in their use. I repeat, both are able to win. Many factors come into play, location being a large one.

Location is important. how thy came to be there is also important- like if they knew they would run in to each other, and the had prior knowledge of each other's actual arsenal.

I think Kishi intended for them to be equal, they have the exact same score in the databook.

Most probably. Too bad fans can't get settle for that answer.

Itachi has more 'finishers' so to speak- amaterasu, tsukuyomi (debatable, a battle of Itachi's chakra vs Jiraiya's will would be interesting), and the totsuka sword, whereas Jiraiya has that toad turning attack and the genjutsu.

On the other hand, Jiraiya is as able with kage bunshin as naruto, and he's very able with escaping techniques. So it's not a guarantee that those techniques would connect, far from it. and Jiraiya's stamina far exceeds Itachi's, I'm not sure how long Itachi can hold susanoo for

Yeah I agree that Jiraiya, when he fought seriously, was dangerous and also had a wide range of techs along with stamina at his disposal.

He was very perceptive ( he immediately noticed that something was wrong with Naruto's chakra when he couldn't learn how to walk on water- instead of signing it off to his stupidity like Ebisu.) and showed that he was quick in thinking how to counter opponants tech at various occasions. He also had many techs of hiding and escaping just in case.

But somehow we do not see many people mentioning his techs like Canopy Method Formation he used against Pain, Toad Gourd Prison barrier, earth release: Swamp of the Underworld alongside with Toad belly one ( which gets most mention).

Jiraiya may still lose but at least come up with more counters and scenarios if you want to keep debating it.

I remember reading these arguments in 2009 and it's 2012- It's never going to be solved and end.

 

[Blaze Release]

was all that needed

Er, yes because people do not seem to understand this :|

 

[Avani 👑]

Er, yes because people do not seem to understand this :|

Exactly what was your conclusion? That we are not sure if Jiraiya could summon himself or not because there are contradictions? :|

 

[Blaze Release]

Exactly what was your conclusion? That we are not sure if Jiraiya could summon himself or not because there are contradictions? :|

Conclusion is that unless pa frog summons jiraiya, then reverse summons him back to the battle location, jiraiya himself cannot do this.

 

[siyo]

they're even, end of story. And the logic a>b>c does not work in the narutoverse for people who bring up Oro, Oro was being reckless anyway, it was hardly anything he was ready for.

Pretty much this.Orochimaru with full prep would murder Itachi and we all know third time's a charm.

 

[Rovian]

Wow really though.. what's up with all the "Itachi vs" threads these days, why are you guys so obsessed with him? stop making so many threads for God sake.. make some informative threads instead, the forums are getting so repetitive and boring, threads like these will get us no where.

 

[Prince Charles]

Conclusion is that unless pa frog summons jiraiya, then reverse summons him back to the battle location, jiraiya himself cannot do this.

um no manga shows>your words link me where it saids a summoning has to be in the other location?

 

[Prince Charles]

Exactly what was your conclusion? That we are not sure if Jiraiya could summon himself or not because there are contradictions? :|

holy crap tsuchi is debating on my thread omfg!~!!!!!!

 

[Prince Charles]

Heh, creator of this thread admitted that he was wrong yesterday, but Jiraiya fanboys just keep coming and coming.

um no im back and i decided not to give up. if you've been reading what we have been posting then you would know that.

 

[Prime Rib]

well honesty if itachi was not sick or was near blind he would take jiraiya.. but not easy thats for sure. but still i like itachi and all but jman takes him:noc:

 

[Prince Charles]

Heh, creator of this thread admitted that he was wrong yesterday, but Jiraiya fanboys just keep coming and coming.

First of all the argument that they have the same stats in the databook meaning they are equal isnt an argument in my eyes, databook is too vague.

Secondly if you look at the databook you'd not only see that itachi has more 5/5 than jiraiya and funny enough jiraiya's only advantage over itachi is stamina and strength but you see this is what allowed jiraiya to catch up. Stamina, true is important in a fight, but you see just because you have more stamina than your opponent doesnt mean you will come out on top. If chakra decides a fight, then the tailed beasts will reign supreme but as we can see that isnt the case. Secondly strength, unless you're a taijutsu user, strength doesnt really decide anything. So whilst both might have the same stat's if you look at each category, you'd see that itachi has for 5/5 than jiraiya therefore is superior than him. Only stamina and strength is what allowed jiraiya to catch up.

Jiriaya does have a large chakra reserve but you see him using the shadow clone just to counter genjutsu isnt enough, if anything its a waste of chakra. Normal bunshin are not durable at all and the slightest contact, they will disperse. We saw itachi with his mastery of kunai's dispose of naruto's bunshin with his back turned. Not to forget he can counter with karas bunshin, which takes up less chakra on his side.

IMO chakra reverses is one of the most important factors. look at kakashi if he has a bigger one he'd be easily in top10.

jman also has experience over him.
and a better arsenal for escape routes.

 

[Blaze Release]

um no manga shows>your words link me where it saids a summoning has to be in the other location?

*Sigh*, i dont think you understand what im trying to say.
Anyway things get repetitive and neither side get anywhere. What will say is that jiraiya has to be either stronger than itachi jutsu wise or smarter than him and in both categories he fails

IMO chakra reverses is one of the most important factors. look at kakashi if he has a bigger one he'd be easily in top10.

jman also has experience over him.
and a better arsenal for escape routes.

Chakra reserves are important but there are many more important factors. Experience hardly means anything and tbh its cringe worthy when people try to pass this on as an argument

 

[Ultimatevirus]

itachi wont let him go to sage mode...
for the amaterasu part: itachi never intended to kill sasuke so this may be one of the reason why he let sasuke outrun him (obviously if you are pushing someone to his limits then you will not hurt him with the weapon that will surely kill but just try to scare him)

itachi's tsukuyomi is much more instantaneous so there might be a change of scenario here

susanoo is double edged sword , itachi must try to avoid it