General Football Debates!

[Michael92]

It pains to guess it right

I must say it was a very intense match; with lots of chances and lots of offensive intent from both teams. Madrid started full-steam in the first 20 minutes - with 2 goals from CR7 but still Bayern often created chances. Unsurprisingly, they got their goal on a penalty.

Thereafter, it was a match with lots of chances and shots for both teams. Madrid felt the Classico fatigue after the 60 min mark and Bayern could have ended it if Gomez didn't mess on his control.

Madrid seemed to have let the storm pass and gain the upper hand in extra-time as Bayern hold on. The fresh legs of Kaka, Higuain and Granero helped but Madrid messed up some chances they had in that ET while Bayern resisted.

There came the most nerve-wracking test in football -the Penalty shootout. And a number of things fascinated me:

1. Neuer got a great style in penalties. With his height and body posture, he used his skills and attributes to the optimum and obviously, it helped. This fascinated me quite a bit; given I play GK mostly (though I play much rarely now)

2. The 2 Ballon D'Or - Kaka and CR7 - missing their penalties in the same way. CR7 is brilliant penalty shooter but must say that in crucial shootouts, he fails often. Did so in United 2008 Final, did so in a shootout in Cup final during his United days and did so again.

3. I could have bet all that Ramos was going to shoot it upwards. I wonder why he chose to shoot cause' clearly his posture, his speed, his run were all wrong. Even the way he positioned his ball gave me an unauspicious feeling.

All-in-all, Bayern fought with all their heart and deserve to clinch this victory. You could clearly see a will in Bayern in that match; that was missing in almost all their Bundesliga matches this season. Their pride, their ego, their honor were boosted by the perspective to play the Final at their Arena and this pro-pulsed them into Final.

Unlike Barcelona though, Madrid have few things to regret. It was a very balanced clash and a narrow defeat - a defeat that could have end on a victory on any other day.

Congrats to Bayern to qualify for the Final. I'll be rooting for Chelsea though obviously.

1: Neuer just looked more good than he really was. In reality, he didn't have any guts, like Casillas had. All he had was plain luck, going 5 out of 5 times the same freaking way on penalties hoping for the best. Don't get me wrong, he's a good GK, but that was just annoying as f*ck.

2: When the two out of top 5 in the world on penalties miss, and especially Ronaldo who has goaled 25 out of fu*king 25 penalties in Madrid, missed it when it mattered the most, just like he did with Man U.

All in all, good match. Just see my post on the other threads for more, can't be bothered to re-post here...

 

[Escorpiius]

1: Neuer just looked more good than he really was. In reality, he didn't have any guts, like Casillas had. All he had was plain luck, going 5 out of 5 times the same freaking way on penalties hoping for the best. Don't get me wrong, he's a good GK, but that was just annoying as f*ck.

2: When the two out of top 5 in the world on penalties miss, and especially Ronaldo who has goaled 25 out of fu*king 25 penalties in Madrid, missed it when it mattered the most, just like he did with Man U.

All in all, good match. Just see my post on the other threads for more, can't be bothered to re-post here...

Definitely is. At least he has the guts to be a real goalkeeper at penalties, not like Neuer who went the same way 5 out of 5 times and were plain lucky.

When Ronaldo and Kaka, top 5 in the world on penalties, misses their penalties then their doomed. Ronaldo had goaled 25 out of Fu*king 25 last penalties and when it matters the most, he blew it just like he did in the final against Chelsea for Man U. Totally unreal. 2-0 after 15 min. Madrid should have won 7-2, but no, of course they're going to play like ducks and let Bayern wipe their asses. Can't freaking believe it. Mou should have gone for the victor in Bayern and not be a scared cat. That Gomes goal as well as the insane close and lucky penalty goal by Robben decided the whole thing. Lose in the 1st leg = elimination. Easy as that U_U

All the two best team in the world can do now is to be satisfied with the Donald Duck and Mickey Mouse trophies in Spain. Could just have rock, paper, scissored on those two! This is bullshit. All Chelsea can do now is to park the f*cking bus and hope for a counter attack in Munich.

You really seemed annoyed Well, I won't rub salt on your wounds but Neuer did well in my eyes. Perhaps lucky, perhaps deserving but it's part of Goalkeeping and he did a good match just like Casillas.

I don't think Madrid played badly as you said. They were far from ducks and in fact, played better than last year. Munich upped their level and their goal on penalty put Madrid's craze on notice.

Obviously, I can't predict but I personally think that Madrid would have lost the match if they tried to go all-offense after Robben's penalty. Madrid played more safely so as not to concede a disastrous second-goal. But yeah, the Gomez goal in the 90th minute is the first reason Madrid isn't in finals today. But as I said, it's a defeat on penalty. Something far less shameful than Barca's defeat.

 

[Escorpiius]

in euro 2008 they lose against Spain in penalty shoot out, so its not a problem

and in WC2010 hmhm its not the same team you know, totti,nesta and del piero already retired from the national team,

and cannavaro its not in his top form they practically forced him to play and also pirlo is injured, if you think about it they regeneration in their team, that's what they did now, and they will rock in euro this year,

and no Germany is not tired at all, they play in their country and in the entire match they practically press Italy, but sadly Catenaccio by marcelo lippi is just too strong to get through even current barca can win against Italy team in 2006,

and yeah they deserve the WC in 2006, zidane get red card don't have any effect in France play at that time, the still dominate Italy till the extra time ended,

of course EPL is better than Serie A since 2006, but in the early 90's and early 2000 italian team is far superior than British team

It's not really a matter of how they were eliminated but it was how they played. They got humiliated by Netherlands in their group, couldn't clinch a win against Romania and survived only because France were a little worst that their worst team. Their team play was horrible. Even if they did won against Spain on shoot-outs, it would have been an unconvincing and lucky win.

Their team is aging and that's exactly my point - they are no more the same glorious team. Sincerely, I doubt they'll do anything in this Euro 2012 but well, it's football. So let's watch.

Germany did a f**kin' hard match with Extra-time with Argentina before playing Italy. Host country or not, they seemed tired in many moments in their match against Italy. They pressed and attacked with their will; but fatigue clearly obstructed them in some way along with Italy's rock defense.

I know that in late 90s and early 2000s, Serie A ruled but that's my point. They ruled but it's matter of past now. No matter what they say about Spanish and Italian leagues, English league are still on top. Atleast, they still are in this 2012 - despite the poor display of most of their teams in CL.

 

[Escorpiius]

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[Grim]

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[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

It's not really a matter of how they were eliminated but it was how they played. They got humiliated by Netherlands in their group, couldn't clinch a win against Romania and survived only because France were a little worst that their worst team. Their team play was horrible. Even if they did won against Spain on shoot-outs, it would have been an unconvincing and lucky win.

Their team is aging and that's exactly my point - they are no more the same glorious team. Sincerely, I doubt they'll do anything in this Euro 2012 but well, it's football. So let's watch.

Germany did a f**kin' hard match with Extra-time with Argentina before playing Italy. Host country or not, they seemed tired in many moments in their match against Italy. They pressed and attacked with their will; but fatigue clearly obstructed them in some way along with Italy's rock defense.

I know that in late 90s and early 2000s, Serie A ruled but that's my point. They ruled but it's matter of past now. No matter what they say about Spanish and Italian leagues, English league are still on top. Atleast, they still are in this 2012 - despite the poor display of most of their teams in CL.

like is said in euro 2008 Italy practically bring their old generation player who already pass their golden age. they got what they deserve, bu still the manage to force team like Spain into penalty shoot out, they play well but lucj is not on their side anymore,

well at least overall italy always played better in international tournament compared to England, who always get the 1st favorite but ended up become the biggest loserxd,

well since 1998 i don't really see argentina as a great team ever since the best striker ever batistuta retired, and in that match its not really intense both team played carefully and germany has a lot capable player as substitute at that time so i doubt it affect their fatigue since klinsman know how to manage their team rotation


NO.....NO ever since 2009 LA LIGA is the best league until now,
even now in EL there is finale between Spain team

 

[Escorpiius]

like is said in euro 2008 Italy practically bring their old generation player who already pass their golden age. they got what they deserve, bu still the manage to force team like Spain into penalty shoot out, they play well but lucj is not on their side anymore,

well at least overall italy always played better in international tournament compared to England, who always get the 1st favorite but ended up become the biggest loserxd,

well since 1998 i don't really see argentina as a great team ever since the best striker ever batistuta retired, and in that match its not really intense both team played carefully and germany has a lot capable player as substitute at that time so i doubt it affect their fatigue since klinsman know how to manage their team rotation

NO.....NO ever since 2009 LA LIGA is the best league until now,
even now in EL there is finale between Spain team

True, England gets knocked out so many times but they are often very unlucky also. Like Rooney's red card in 2006 or the clear-goal of Lampard not given ect...England needs more luck and leader than talents; unlike Italy.

Argentina has too many talents and thus, they are forced to be recognized as a Top team.

I don't agree. Since 2009, Barcelona may be the Best Team but the Best league was and remains the English league in my eyes.

The EL final doesn't prove much. Last year, there were 3 Portuguese teams in EL Semi-final but that never meant that Portuguese has the best league. Besides, a normal English league match still gets better TV Ratings and Views than Europa League matches. This shows the difference in importance.

 

[ReLax -]

Well kind of late, but I'm still going to put down my input on last week and this week.

Are loss to Chelsea in the first lag was bad. We had that game and dominated, but couldn't put the ball in the net at the end and Chelsea did. It came from a mistake from Messi (News flash: Messi has lost possession of the ball most this season.)

The game VS Madrid was like rubbing salt on our wounds. This game we could have won and had are chance, but failed to capitalize and Madrid for the short time they had the ball played well and deserved the win (Their 2nd win out of 15-20 games VS us ).

The 2nd lag VS Chelsea was just brutal. We played well and even had the red card advantage with us. We were up 2-0 and blow it to 2-2, 2 of Chelsea goal coming from 10 man team. They played a very tight defense and had Messi on lock down. There is not much to say, but respect to Chelsea for fighting this far and defeating Barcelona at least you finally got your vengeance from 2009? Make it count.

We have a big problem as Escorps said years go on and we just become more attack base and use are possession style football as defense, but we can only get so far with it, as we need at least 3 good defenders, we have only two with Abidal out and getting older, so is Puyol. This is something I hope Tito does for us, and I hope he learned from Pep well. We also need height which is another downfall. Pique is like the tallest one, we have big troubles in set pieces especially against Madrid like are loss to them Xavi was marking Benzema in the corner set piece lol

Well Madrid are out unlike Mou we didn't really need an excuse, it was just not meant for us this year and Chelsea played well. Mou based his loss off the game VS Barcelona, even tho we played a day earlier and he has many youth on his team compared to us. He also says that we lost due to the same reason and later tries to insult us by saying we took Chelsea so lightly like we did with Inter.

Bayern played well, so did Madrid it was a heavyweight battle between the two, height, strength, youth, speed, and determination. I had this really good feeling Bayern was going to win I even called the scoreline out and called PK 2-1 score with 3-1 PK before the game and PK in favor of Bayern. I was at a PUB in Abu Dhabi well my flight landed there for 4 hrs and caught the game. The guy beside me was like how'd you know did the game come on late here lol

Anyways final will be Bayern VS Chelsea...I will route for Bayern lol

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

True, England gets knocked out so many times but they are often very unlucky also. Like Rooney's red card in 2006 or the clear-goal of Lampard not given ect...England needs more luck and leader than talents; unlike Italy.

Argentina has too many talents and thus, they are forced to be recognized as a Top team.

I don't agree. Since 2009, Barcelona may be the Best Team but the Best league was and remains the English league in my eyes.

The EL final doesn't prove much. Last year, there were 3 Portuguese teams in EL Semi-final but that never meant that Portuguese has the best league. Besides, a normal English league match still gets better TV Ratings and Views than Europa League matches. This shows the difference in importance.

yeah unlike italy, since italy already have all (talent leader an luck) but sometimes luck is on their side,

BOLD:i know what you mean with that, LMAO
true in your eyes and in my point of view, LA LIGA is always entertaining,

if you go by tv rating then EPL stomp :shrug:, but since i started watching football in 1996 i don't really into EPL, since i don't find it fascinating, because in my opinion the best league who have the best attack play is LA LIGA and the best defense belong to Serie A,

overall EPL team don't have their own football method, most of them Adapting Netherlands Total Football, where all the player move to attack leaving 2 center back behind with 1 defensive midfielder stay in check

you must be realize it by now english player is gradually decreasing in their own league, after rooney in 2004 i don't see any new english player who have the same capacity with rooney anymore,

only arsenal now who still produce some skillful English player.

 

[Escorpiius]

Well kind of late, but I'm still going to put down my input on last week and this week.

Are loss to Chelsea in the first lag was bad. We had that game and dominated, but couldn't put the ball in the net at the end and Chelsea did. It came from a mistake from Messi (News flash: Messi has lost possession of the ball most this season.)

The game VS Madrid was like rubbing salt on our wounds. This game we could have won and had are chance, but failed to capitalize and Madrid for the short time they had the ball played well and deserved the win (Their 2nd win out of 15-20 games VS us ).

The 2nd lag VS Chelsea was just brutal. We played well and even had the red card advantage with us. We were up 2-0 and blow it to 2-2, 2 of Chelsea goal coming from 10 man team. They played a very tight defense and had Messi on lock down. There is not much to say, but respect to Chelsea for fighting this far and defeating Barcelona at least you finally got your vengeance from 2009? Make it count.

We have a big problem as Escorps said years go on and we just become more attack base and use are possession style football as defense, but we can only get so far with it, as we need at least 3 good defenders, we have only two with Abidal out and getting older, so is Puyol. This is something I hope Tito does for us, and I hope he learned from Pep well. We also need height which is another downfall. Pique is like the tallest one, we have big troubles in set pieces especially against Madrid like are loss to them Xavi was marking Benzema in the corner set piece lol

Well Madrid are out unlike Mou we didn't really need an excuse, it was just not meant for us this year and Chelsea played well. Mou based his loss off the game VS Barcelona, even tho we played a day earlier and he has many youth on his team compared to us. He also says that we lost due to the same reason and later tries to insult us by saying we took Chelsea so lightly like we did with Inter.

Bayern played well, so did Madrid it was a heavyweight battle between the two, height, strength, youth, speed, and determination. I had this really good feeling Bayern was going to win I even called the scoreline out and called PK 2-1 score with 3-1 PK before the game and PK in favor of Bayern. I was at a PUB in Abu Dhabi well my flight landed there for 4 hrs and caught the game. The guy beside me was like how'd you know did the game come on late here lol

Anyways final will be Bayern VS Chelsea...I will route for Bayern lol

Well, I already said nearly all my thoughts on Barca's rough week; so i won't add much. Just some quick points of some points that interested me in your part.

1. I know that Messi loses the most often the ball possession. It's not due to his skills but rather to the double tight marking of defenders. What I'd like to know is how much time did the ball he lost turned into a goal for other teams. Personally, it's a first time if I remember... :shrug: Cause most of the balls he loses are covered by Busquets and Co. and usually the Barca ball possessions starts back again.

2. I've read the 'allegations' that Mou did on their elimination... Well, I've said it before the Classico that the dates of Classico and Semi-finals were too close. Sincerely LigaBBVA should have planned it better. They kinda self-destroyed the chances of their own teams in Champions League with their dates. But that apart, Mou is also to be blamed cause' he did too few turnovers. For someone with such rich squad, he didn't use it to the optimum in my eyes. Oh well, it's done now. And at the very least, it's hard to predict a winner in a penalty shootout.

3. I guess we can never route for the same team

yeah unlike italy, since italy already have all (talent leader an luck) but sometimes luck is on their side,

BOLD:i know what you mean with that, LMAO
true in your eyes and in my point of view, LA LIGA is always entertaining,

if you go by tv rating then EPL stomp :shrug:, but since i started watching football in 1996 i don't really into EPL, since i don't find it fascinating, because in my opinion the best league who have the best attack play is LA LIGA and the best defense belong to Serie A,

overall EPL team don't have their own football method, most of them Adapting Netherlands Total Football, where all the player move to attack leaving 2 center back behind with 1 defensive midfielder stay in check

you must be realize it by now english player is gradually decreasing in their own league, after rooney in 2004 i don't see any new english player who have the same capacity with rooney anymore,

only arsenal now who still produce some skillful English player.

Well, I find it weird that you get into the 'football method' part. You may find Italian defensive football or Spanish football entertaining but then again, neither Spanish or Italian got heir own method initially. If you'd like to take a past trip then.

Total football was revolutionized in Netherlands mostly. Though Germany has a big hand in it too.

In fact, the Possession football was done by Germany initially. It's only afterwards that Johan Cryuffs and Co. adapted. And now has Spanish teams.

As for the defensive play-style, it's true that it's become a trademark of Italy but at the origin, it was vigorously done by USSR.

Anyways, all that to say that few countries and leagues have their own style but most moved forward with time.

England may have had no style but they invented football itself. And frankly, I love EPL for that deep soul of football that they maintained throughout. It won't be an understatement that football is indeed a religion in England. And the love and passion kinda overshadows the specific style. I've always love EPL football more for diverse reasons.

I agree that England youth are good but they don't rarely have a national gem in their squad. Well, it might change. Maybe in some 2-3 years. I always thought why they don't re-unite England with Wales and Scotland to represent Great Britain as a whole.

In fact many Scottish and Wales players rarely got the chance to feature in final stages of World Cup or Euro Cups. If they were to do that, the squad will definitely be among the best National squads in my eyes. But anyways, that's all suppositions by me. Legendary players like Giggs or McAllister never got the chance to feature in big stages of National Cups. And sadly neither won't promising talents like Gareth Bale...

 

[ReLax -]

Well, I already said nearly all my thoughts on Barca's rough week; so i won't add much. Just some quick points of some points that interested me in your part.

1. I know that Messi loses the most often the ball possession. It's not due to his skills but rather to the double tight marking of defenders. What I'd like to know is how much time did the ball he lost turned into a goal for other teams. Personally, it's a first time if I remember... :shrug: Cause most of the balls he loses are covered by Busquets and Co. and usually the Barca ball possessions starts back again.

2. I've read the 'allegations' that Mou did on their elimination... Well, I've said it before the Classico that the dates of Classico and Semi-finals were too close. Sincerely LigaBBVA should have planned it better. They kinda self-destroyed the chances of their own teams in Champions League with their dates. But that apart, Mou is also to be blamed cause' he did too few turnovers. For someone with such rich squad, he didn't use it to the optimum in my eyes. Oh well, it's done now. And at the very least, it's hard to predict a winner in a penalty shootout.

3. I guess we can never route for the same team

That was Messi first time he lost the ball that led to a goal I'm pretty sure this season. In the mid season they said just in La Liga he lost the ball 285 times, while the next guy to him (can't remember name) lost it 221 times. I've noticed it a lot compared to any other player playing today Messi has the most on him, even Ronaldo is marked by one man and maybe two once he's closer to the box, but Messi the second he ball rolls to him he's marked by two or more players.

Rightfully said, but its football and we will see some messed up fixture timings and days for clubs. It is I just randomly said 3-1 and I said Ronaldo would score for Madrid in PK failed there.

Technically I shouldn't be routing for Bayern as of right now we are both tied at 4 CL cups, and if they win they will jump ahead of us (they are already a head becuase they have 1 more runner up than us). If Chelsea wins not only will it be their first time, but it would be sad for us because it could have been us lol at the end tho the best team will win, but the underdogs are Chelsea.

Liverpool VS Chelsea for FA cup will be quite an interesting game, I don't think Chelsea has beaten Liverpool this season either.

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

Well, I find it weird that you get into the 'football method' part. You may find Italian defensive football or Spanish football entertaining but then again, neither Spanish or Italian got heir own method initially. If you'd like to take a past trip then.

Total football was revolutionized in Netherlands mostly. Though Germany has a big hand in it too.

In fact, the Possession football was done by Germany initially. It's only afterwards that Johan Cryuffs and Co. adapted. And now has Spanish teams.

As for the defensive play-style, it's true that it's become a trademark of Italy but at the origin, it was vigorously done by USSR.

Anyways, all that to say that few countries and leagues have their own style but most moved forward with time.

England may have had no style but they invented football itself. And frankly, I love EPL for that deep soul of football that they maintained throughout. It won't be an understatement that football is indeed a religion in England. And the love and passion kinda overshadows the specific style. I've always love EPL football more for diverse reasons.

I agree that England youth are good but they don't rarely have a national gem in their squad. Well, it might change. Maybe in some 2-3 years. I always thought why they don't re-unite England with Wales and Scotland to represent Great Britain as a whole.

In fact many Scottish and Wales players rarely got the chance to feature in final stages of World Cup or Euro Cups. If they were to do that, the squad will definitely be among the best National squads in my eyes. But anyways, that's all suppositions by me. Legendary players like Giggs or McAllister never got the chance to feature in big stages of National Cups. And sadly neither won't promising talents like Gareth Bale...

yeah but back then west Germany with their possession football is not as offensive like Netherlands total football, in other words its still in the RAW stages, Netherlands perfected that method with quick play with short passxd,

same goes with USSR, they played defensive football, but with obvious strategy, using power and durability to defense and Italy perfected that method with tactical play in defense with introducing libero as the key in the defensive area.

this TOTAL FOOTBALL and CATENACCIO become the basis for modern football nowdays for attacking method and defense methodxd,

its kinda ironic for England as the mother football while they only won 1 WC, for me i think ENGLAND best team exist in the 80's with john barnes and gary lineker:izuna:,

yeah i agree with you, i always have the same thought if only they would put wales, Scotland and England as the representative for Great Britannia, they will invincible especially if giggs still in his early 20's

 

[Escorpiius]

That was Messi first time he lost the ball that led to a goal I'm pretty sure this season. In the mid season they said just in La Liga he lost the ball 285 times, while the next guy to him (can't remember name) lost it 221 times. I've noticed it a lot compared to any other player playing today Messi has the most on him, even Ronaldo is marked by one man and maybe two once he's closer to the box, but Messi the second he ball rolls to him he's marked by two or more players.

Rightfully said, but its football and we will see some messed up fixture timings and days for clubs. It is I just randomly said 3-1 and I said Ronaldo would score for Madrid in PK failed there.

Technically I shouldn't be routing for Bayern as of right now we are both tied at 4 CL cups, and if they win they will jump ahead of us (they are already a head becuase they have 1 more runner up than us). If Chelsea wins not only will it be their first time, but it would be sad for us because it could have been us lol at the end tho the best team will win, but the underdogs are Chelsea.

Liverpool VS Chelsea for FA cup will be quite an interesting game, I don't think Chelsea has beaten Liverpool this season either.

Yeah, the marking on Messi is much tighter this season. Can't blame the teams for that. In fact, I find it forced and well-done. The thing is that right now, Messi has been a little contained in the big matches with that kind of marking. Time slowly revealed some weaknesses to exploit...

I agree that it's part of football. But it's weird that Liga League does this 'blunder' 2 years consecutively. Last year, it was 4 Classico. This time, it's Classico and 2 big CL matches for each of them.

Yeah, the underdogs are clearly Chelsea but I definitely root for them. I may have watch it as a neutral if it was Madrid v/s Chelsea though...

Even if Liverpool win the FA Cup and thus makes a Cup-double, their season is still a pathetic one in my eyes. Sincerely, they don't really deserve those cups, the way they play in EPL right now.

yeah but back then west Germany with their possession football is not as offensive like Netherlands total football, in other words its still in the RAW stages, Netherlands perfected that method with quick play with short passxd,

same goes with USSR, they played defensive football, but with obvious strategy, using power and durability to defense and Italy perfected that method with tactical play in defense with introducing libero as the key in the defensive area.

this TOTAL FOOTBALL and CATENACCIO become the basis for modern football nowdays for attacking method and defense methodxd,

its kinda ironic for England as the mother football while they only won 1 WC, for me i think ENGLAND best team exist in the 80's with john barnes and gary lineker:izuna:,

yeah i agree with you, i always have the same thought if only they would put wales, Scotland and England as the representative for Great Britannia, they will invincible especially if giggs still in his early 20's

Well, modern football's basis is based on tactics in my eyes. Long ago, coaches didn't made so much researches for a particular match. Nowadays, so much effort is done before-match to prepare proper tactic. This is THE REAL advancement of football in my eyes (compared to 25-30 years ago). The coach and staff is really a key in a team now; much more than in those times. Technology helped a lot for that progress too.

And if I were to ask for the next big change in upcoming years, I hope it's in the refereeing department...

Anyways, I guess, I agree with all points. But it was nice debate. Lots of history and analysis and I enjoyed. Thanks Come more often on the thread for any other discussions you want to start

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

Well, modern football's basis is based on tactics in my eyes. Long ago, coaches didn't made so much researches for a particular match. Nowadays, so much effort is done before-match to prepare proper tactic. This is THE REAL advancement of football in my eyes (compared to 25-30 years ago). The coach and staff is really a key in a team now; much more than in those times. Technology helped a lot for that progress too.

And if I were to ask for the next big change in upcoming years, I hope it's in the refereeing department...

Anyways, I guess, I agree with all points. But it was nice debate. Lots of history and analysis and I enjoyed. Thanks Come more often on the thread for any other discussions you want to start

well you can say its easier to play football nowadays compared to 20 or 30 years ago, the field,jersey and shoe is better nowadays LOL,

true UEFA/FIFA should use more Italian and south america referee in LC/WC/EC match.

well you're welcome, i actually quite annoyed with the discussion in the naruto section nowadays xd,

and by the way, if messi still get the Ballon d'Or this year there must be something wrong with the voters :shrug:

oppss I almost forget about the Manchester derby this week LOL, am rooting for the citizen for more drama xd

 

[Escorpiius]

well you can say its easier to play football nowadays compared to 20 or 30 years ago, the field,jersey and shoe is better nowadays LOL,

true UEFA/FIFA should use more Italian and south america referee in LC/WC/EC match.

well you're welcome, i actually quite annoyed with the discussion in the naruto section nowadays xd,

and by the way, if messi still get the Ballon d'Or this year there must be something wrong with the voters :shrug:

oppss I almost forget about the Manchester derby this week LOL, am rooting for the citizen for more drama xd

True. Well, by progress in refereeing, I mainly insinuating that video replays should be allowed in some 5-10 years.

Well, I don't really go into Naruto sections nowadays.

The Ballon D'Or judging style was changed since last 2 years. Long ago, there was an exclusive Panel to judge who was the best player and who deserved it more. That particular Panel considered the achievements of players strictly and as a main factor for Ballon D'Or.

Since 2 years, Platini the A**hole (excuse the language) changed the system. Now, the Panel has been reduced in number. And a good chunk of judges are the journalists, pundits and coaches themselves. (who are biased with players who posses extraordinary abilities) In short, the judges are now a mixture of those. And while the Panel has their old view, the others simply put their votes upon players that they deem to posses extraordinary abilities. Those people neglect the achievements factors considerably and since Messi and Ronaldo are 2 players who are gifted with great attributes along with individual performances, they are bound to be in Top 3/5 regardless of whether they won something with their club/national team.

In my view, I find it bullshit. The Award has turn way too much of an individualistic Award; where skills and statistics are considered too strongly and where hard-work and club accomplishments is no more a crucial factor. In short, there are now two types of judges in the Panel of Ballon D'Or. One who'll vote according to what a player has accomplished with his team and one who vote according to statistics and abilities of the player. Thus, why Sneijder, Xavi and Iniesta didn't win it in the last 2 years while Messi did and Ronaldo follows.

Don't be surprise if let's say a player - example Ozil or Rooney or RVP -who's having a good season and were to be the main player that give their national team the Euro trophy, don't win the Ballon D'Or. But yet someone like CR7 or Messi clinch it yet again. Right now, CR7 is my favorite to gain it but I'd rather wait to see what Euro reserves. Hope you get it a bit more as to why Messi is winning Ballon D'Or so often and there's no more surprises like a Nedved or Cannavaro win. It's the Ballon D'Or Panel which has changed and how I wished that it were reverted back to how it was.

I'll speak on the Manchester Derby after it's played but everyone know obviously whom I'm rooting for.

 

[Rapid]

Falcons going all the way this year

 

[ReLax -]

Yeah, the marking on Messi is much tighter this season. Can't blame the teams for that. In fact, I find it forced and well-done. The thing is that right now, Messi has been a little contained in the big matches with that kind of marking. Time slowly revealed some weaknesses to exploit...

I agree that it's part of football. But it's weird that Liga League does this 'blunder' 2 years consecutively. Last year, it was 4 Classico. This time, it's Classico and 2 big CL matches for each of them.

Yeah, the underdogs are clearly Chelsea but I definitely root for them. I may have watch it as a neutral if it was Madrid v/s Chelsea though...

Even if Liverpool win the FA Cup and thus makes a Cup-double, their season is still a pathetic one in my eyes. Sincerely, they don't really deserve those cups, the way they play in EPL right now.

I agree this is why Barcelona need one more pure striker with height, most importantly tho we need defense ATM, we are after Bale and also after united target Alba (whos also LB/RB), I'm guess we can only get one.

I hope they do fix it, but until than the Spanish teams have to live with it.

If Madrid went thru I'd root Chelsea, don't need them to make it 10 now do we.

You can't really say that because the same goes for Chelsea, they have a much better squad than Liverpool, but yet are in 6th place on table and they made it to FA and CL final, so is that undeserved to?

Liverpool Suarez hit home a hat trick yesterday and what a way to put in the 3rd goal from 45 yds out just amazing. Liverpool need more signing and better ones to support a player like Suarez or they need to buy players like Cavani, Llorente, or Falcao for height support and replace Carroll. Liverpool don't really have a strong team like the rest in EPL and other leagues.

Falcons going all the way this year

We aren't discussing "American Football"

 

[Rand al'Thor]

Technically escorpiuus EPLS quality have decreased over the years with all the top players leaving for spain..there are hardly any top players in England.That being said EPL is much more even.at least the fight for the cup is between 5-6 teams..whereas in Spain only 2 teams barca and madrid hog the limelight and the difference of the two teams compared to teh whole La Liga is too huge.Though The 2 teams will easily pawn any team in EPL..U_U..personally i feel the bundesliga is the most entertaining league..every team has a chance to win the league..nobody is overpowered or too weak..

 

[Totsuka No Tsurugi]

True. Well, by progress in refereeing, I mainly insinuating that video replays should be allowed in some 5-10 years.

Well, I don't really go into Naruto sections nowadays.

The Ballon D'Or judging style was changed since last 2 years. Long ago, there was an exclusive Panel to judge who was the best player and who deserved it more. That particular Panel considered the achievements of players strictly and as a main factor for Ballon D'Or.

Since 2 years, Platini the A**hole (excuse the language) changed the system. Now, the Panel has been reduced in number. And a good chunk of judges are the journalists, pundits and coaches themselves. (who are biased with players who posses extraordinary abilities) In short, the judges are now a mixture of those. And while the Panel has their old view, the others simply put their votes upon players that they deem to posses extraordinary abilities. Those people neglect the achievements factors considerably and since Messi and Ronaldo are 2 players who are gifted with great attributes along with individual performances, they are bound to be in Top 3/5 regardless of whether they won something with their club/national team.

In my view, I find it bullshit. The Award has turn way too much of an individualistic Award; where skills and statistics are considered too strongly and where hard-work and club accomplishments is no more a crucial factor. In short, there are now two types of judges in the Panel of Ballon D'Or. One who'll vote according to what a player has accomplished with his team and one who vote according to statistics and abilities of the player. Thus, why Sneijder, Xavi and Iniesta didn't win it in the last 2 years while Messi did and Ronaldo follows.

Don't be surprise if let's say a player - example Ozil or Rooney or RVP -who's having a good season and were to be the main player that give their national team the Euro trophy, don't win the Ballon D'Or. But yet someone like CR7 or Messi clinch it yet again. Right now, CR7 is my favorite to gain it but I'd rather wait to see what Euro reserves. Hope you get it a bit more as to why Messi is winning Ballon D'Or so often and there's no more surprises like a Nedved or Cannavaro win. It's the Ballon D'Or Panel which has changed and how I wished that it were reverted back to how it was.

I'll speak on the Manchester Derby after it's played but everyone know obviously whom I'm rooting for.

I AGREE 100% with you, that Platini!!!!!!!
especially in 2010, damn that was disgrace toward Inter milan, especially Wesley sneijder, seriously that man won the champions league,Serie A,Coppa Italy, in his 1st season and bring Netherlands to the final in WC 2010, and yet he's not even made it to the finalist for the award:sy:

CR7,RVP and mario gomez, yeah one of them should win the Ballon d'Or this year.

 

[Escorpiius]

I agree this is why Barcelona need one more pure striker with height, most importantly tho we need defense ATM, we are after Bale and also after united target Alba (whos also LB/RB), I'm guess we can only get one.

I hope they do fix it, but until than the Spanish teams have to live with it.

If Madrid went thru I'd root Chelsea, don't need them to make it 10 now do we.

You can't really say that because the same goes for Chelsea, they have a much better squad than Liverpool, but yet are in 6th place on table and they made it to FA and CL final, so is that undeserved to?

Liverpool Suarez hit home a hat trick yesterday and what a way to put in the 3rd goal from 45 yds out just amazing. Liverpool need more signing and better ones to support a player like Suarez or they need to buy players like Cavani, Llorente, or Falcao for height support and replace Carroll. Liverpool don't really have a strong team like the rest in EPL and other leagues.

I agree with a pure striker. In fact, even United needs one but I'm a sentimental and can't agree to the fact that we'll need to sacrifice someone like Chicharito or Welbeck for that. But yeah, Barcelona needs to reinforce both attack and defense. Bale is a wonderful player (one of my favorites) but seeing the plight of Barca's defense, I sincerely think it might be suicidal.

Well, it's been sometime since I saw a CL final with Madrid And I won't hide the fact that I'd like CR7 and Ozil to lift it someday.

Nope, the same doesn't apply for Chelsea. Chelsea is fighting for the 4th place while Liverpool is not even certain to be in Europa League. Moreover, the performance of Liverpool in EPL was disastrous. I've got the chance (or is it bad luck) to see some of their matches against low-teams and they were pathetic. Chelsea lost mostly their big matches and has a manager problem. Otherwise, their performance is less alarming than Liverpool - who reportedly has good relationship with their manager. Liverpool recruited a lot this year and after seeing their performances, I'd term this season as a failure. Chelsea had an aging team and a fallout with their manager. If they didn't have that managerial issue, their season will have been more brighter. Even if teams like Arsenal, Tottenham and Newcastle didn't win anything, their performances were better than Liverpool any-day. And seriously, there's a BIG difference in being in a Carling Cup final and a Champions League final? U_U There's a play-crisis in my view at Liverpool and the Cups finals are just a veneer - it's hiding the appearances.

Technically escorpiuus EPLS quality have decreased over the years with all the top players leaving for spain..there are hardly any top players in England.That being said EPL is much more even.at least the fight for the cup is between 5-6 teams..whereas in Spain only 2 teams barca and madrid hog the limelight and the difference of the two teams compared to teh whole La Liga is too huge.Though The 2 teams will easily pawn any team in EPL..U_U..personally i feel the bundesliga is the most entertaining league..every team has a chance to win the league..nobody is overpowered or too weak..

Still, EPL has the most talented players after Liga. So, it's really a downfall. There's a 62 points difference between Madrid (leader) and Racing (the last). It's way too huge. And say whatever you want about those 2 teams pwn those EPL teams any-day but fact is that they still lost against Chelsea. Bundesliga may give anyone a chance but there's a lack of tactics in their play which doesn't appeal to me.

I'd give a good line that I've recently read and which applies perfectly here - Europe's elite extends beyond the Classico.

I AGREE 100% with you, that Platini!!!!!!!
especially in 2010, damn that was disgrace toward Inter milan, especially Wesley sneijder, seriously that man won the champions league,Serie A,Coppa Italy, in his 1st season and bring Netherlands to the final in WC 2010, and yet he's not even made it to the finalist for the award:sy:

CR7,RVP and mario gomez, yeah one of them should win the Ballon d'Or this year.

I was gutted about Sneijder and still is.

I agree...