Does Sage Mode Grant Immunity To Genjutsu...?

[NarutoKage2]

The latest chapter(s) have got me thinking as to whether a person in Sage mode may very well be immune to genjutsu of any form.



Taking a look at the recent chapter:

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In the latest chapter, even though this was a shadow clone take a look at Itachi's eye:

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That was Itachi's left eye with the Mangekyuo activated. With Itachi, the left eye casts the genjutsu Tsukiyomi while the right eye is used for ametarasu. He appears to look at Kabuto but to no effect.
NOTE: I am aware that Kabuto is shown with his eyes closed in the following page, but this may have been due to the impact of the crows on his body. Also, in the panel shown Kabuto says 'i told you, take your time' and at this point he appears to have his eyes opened if you look carefully.

I had been wondering this point for a while:

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When Jiraiya uses the 2 Elder toads to cast the frog song genjutsu, why does he himself remain immune to the effects of this illusion? The working of the jutsu was explained here:

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It attacks the victims brain through their sense of hearing....
That is how the jutsu is explained by the Pa the elder toad, and its used to attack Pain as genjutsu was what appeared to be his only weakness at the time.

Now, why does the song not affect Jiraiya...?

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A genjutsu relies on a certain form of stimulation to take effect. It can be induced by looking at some one's eyes(sharingan) or in the case of J man and the toads via sound and attacking the sense of hearing. But what affects one person, surely must also affect the other? Notice here:

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Look at Jiraiya's hand, its to the side. He does'nt even attempt to cover his ears. But if the song affects any one who hears it, it should also affect Jiraiya, no? Yet it does'nt.

Just another point:

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Some people might say well, the person close to the genjutsu source may have a natural immunity. Yet over here:

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Itachi, despite having his Mangekyuo activated and being the person who gave Naruto that eye, is affected completely by Shisui's genjutsu.

So to conclude:

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We all know that genjutsu can be overcome by disturbing one's internal source of chakra. This was shown in the Killer Bee Vs Sasuke fight. Yet what happens when the source of chakra is nature itself, and as such is constantly in change? It would appear as natural energy is used, every time the wind increases/decreases a person in Sage mode has their chakra disturbed. Thus, possibly rendering them immune to genjutsu as long as this state is maintained.

 

[Uchiha Josephus]

I would say that Sage Mode is still susceptable to Genjutsu. Jiraiya and Naruto were not affected by the genjutsus they used while in Sage Mode (as they were not directed on themselves)

Also if Genjutsu didn't work, why would Kabuto be using tactics for the sole purpose of not looking Itachi in the eye?

EDIT - and part of it is the direction in which the genjutsu is projected - that is, the "sound" genjutsu's will only effect those within the hyperbola created by the sound waves. Kinda like seeing a plane overhead but not hearing it till it's passed you.

ANOTHER EDIT - I don't believe the wind will disturb one's nature chakra. If you do not have nature chakra in perfect balance with your own chakra you will either fall out of sage mode or will turn into a frog (in naruto's case). So I don't see Nature Chakra intake as an actual "disturbance" of one's chakra since it has to be balanced to work - and I don't think the elements (wind, as you said) has any effect.

 

[Ryuu..]

No, I think the main reason is simply plot. It would be pointless for a character to user a genjutsu they were easily susceptible to.

 

[Ambriel]

Nope I think its plot that the bros dnt put kabuto in a genjutsu so we can have them fight

 

[ZeroBeloved]

no, itachi wants to put kabuto in genjutsu. contrary to itachi fanboys, this shows tsykoyomi is not as easy to cast as they thought

 

[Qcks]

I think Genjutsu can still effect them, but i think the duration is impacted. Whether that matters for Itachi or not is yet to be seen since his genjutsu's exist outside of normal time.

First... naruto's Sage Mode is not the same as Kabuto's Sage Mode. I'm not willing to say which is better yet because we don't know enough about Kabuto's sage mode, but they probably work differently.

I tend to think that Kabuto has a degree of protection from Genjutsu because he's said that his sage mode is based, in part, on a technique which unconsciously draws in nature energy. If Kabuto isn't consciously balancing his chakras, the nature energy will overwhelm him, disrupting his chakra for a short time. That effectively ends any genjutsu. It would take a little bit of time though for the nature energy to build up and overwhelm his chakra.

With specific regard to Jiraiya, he was fused with ma and pa at that time. He was immune to genjutsu the second they hopped into his body and started sharing a consciousness.
I think Naruto will be immune to most genjutsu for a similar reason, but it's not as a direct result of sage mode.

I already noted why kabuto should be immune to most genjutsu, at least in a limited fashion.

 

[NarutoKage2]

How's it just plot if anyone who hears the Toad song genjutsu falls victim to it but Jiraiya did'nt and did'nt even try to cover his ears?

Also, why has there not been a single instance to date where anyone using Sage mode(Naruto,Jiraiya or Kabuto) has been caught by genjutsu while in Sage mode?

 

[apple pie of doom]

Kabuto fights with his eyes closed mostly last manga.
So i doubt eye genjutsu will catch him, he can ''sense'' nature and stuff anyway, why would he bother looking if its only going to be a burden?

 

[ZeroBeloved]

How's it just plot if anyone who hears the Toad song genjutsu falls victim to it but Jiraiya did'nt and did'nt even try to cover his ears?

Also, why has there not been a single instance to date where anyone using Sage mode(Naruto,Jiraiya or Kabuto) has been caught by genjutsu while in Sage mode?

how the jirayai get caught in a genjutsu casted by him (ma/pa)
like itachi looking in a mirror and casting it on himself

 

[kibaclaw]

If you use sage mode like jiraiya with another sage sharing chakra with u then u are fairly immune to genjutsu because all it takes to break a genjutsu is some other being feeding chakra into your body. Granny chiyo taught us this.

If u use sage mode like naruto u aren't immune because naruto isn't constantly absorbing nature chakra unless he is standing still and meditating. Might be immune while he's meditating tho.

 

[Uchiha Josephus]

How's it just plot if anyone who hears the Toad song genjutsu falls victim to it but Jiraiya did'nt and did'nt even try to cover his ears?

Notice where Jiraiya was in relation to the direction in which the sound was sent. His ears are behind the sources (Ma and Pa on his shoulders) so he is not getting a full blast. I would say it effects anyone who is within range and is hit with a full blast of it.

Also - the fact that Jiraiya was linked to Ma and Pa also helps him stay out of it. Think of it this way, why don't Ma and Pa get put under their own genjutsu? [WHOOOOAAAA! Trippy!]

lso, why has there not been a single instance to date where anyone using Sage mode(Naruto,Jiraiya or Kabuto) has been caught by genjutsu while in Sage mode?

Circumstantial evidence doesn't hold up, but nice try

 

[NarutoKage2]

I would say that Sage Mode is still susceptable to Genjutsu. Jiraiya and Naruto were not affected by the genjutsus they used while in Sage Mode (as they were not directed on themselves)

Also if Genjutsu didn't work, why would Kabuto be using tactics for the sole purpose of not looking Itachi in the eye?

EDIT - and part of it is the direction in which the genjutsu is projected - that is, the "sound" genjutsu's will only effect those within the hyperbola created by the sound waves. Kinda like seeing a plane overhead but not hearing it till it's passed you.

ANOTHER EDIT - I don't believe the wind will disturb one's nature chakra. If you do not have nature chakra in perfect balance with your own chakra you will either fall out of sage mode or will turn into a frog (in naruto's case). So I don't see Nature Chakra intake as an actual "disturbance" of one's chakra since it has to be balanced to work - and I don't think the elements (wind, as you said) has any effect.

Its meant to affect the senses, this includes their own, naturally. And what i meant was that Sage Mode is basically drawing in the force of nature to enhance your abilities, its not the user's own chakra but that of the environment. When Gamakichi explains this to Naruto, he says using the force of the land and the air(to make it simple lol) . So obviously the force of nature is never constant if your chakra is from that force then it can't be constant either, e.g the world's climate is constantly changing and the wind was an example in this context.

how the jirayai get caught in a genjutsu casted by him (ma/pa)
like itachi looking in a mirror and casting it on himself

Except it was'nt cast by himself. Jiraiya does'nt know shit about genjutsu, the taod song was done by the 2 elder toads, Ma and Pa so technically its not an illusion cast by himself that he'll fall into.

 

[Qcks]

Also, why has there not been a single instance to date where anyone using Sage mode(Naruto,Jiraiya or Kabuto) has been caught by genjutsu while in Sage mode?

Because no one has thrown a genjutsu at them while they've been in Sage mode.

Actually last week's comic casts serious doubts on Sage mode Immunity to genjutsu.
Itachi seems to specifically have hit Kabuto with a Genjutsu.

After that.... you're misunderstanding something about Sage Mode.
Sage mode is powered by Sage Chakra.
To make Sage Chakra, a person has to mix spiritual chakra, with physical chakra , and nature energy.
Just because the natural energy is in flux (because of a wind storm for instance) doesn't mean the Sage mode user's energy is in flux.

Now, Kabuto's Sage mode is different.
He has hinted that it doesn't take conscious effort to draw in the nature energy needed for Sage mode. (he might have been lying or exaggerating... but I'm going to assume he was at least a little honest for a moment.)
If that's the case, Kabuto has to actively balance his chakra's and he'll be overwhelmed by the nature energy.

 

[NarutoKage2]

Notice where Jiraiya was in relation to the direction in which the sound was sent. His ears are behind the sources (Ma and Pa on his shoulders) so he is not getting a full blast. I would say it effects anyone who is within range and is hit with a full blast of it.

Also - the fact that Jiraiya was linked to Ma and Pa also helps him stay out of it. Think of it this way, why don't Ma and Pa get put under their own genjutsu? [WHOOOOAAAA! Trippy!]



Circumstantial evidence doesn't hold up, but nice try

Have you studied physics? If you have then you'd have known that sound is a wave which transmits like ripples in a pond and technically Jiraiya is in the path of the propagating wave, its impossible for the sound to move linearly like you described. Throw a rock in still water, the waves move outwards in ever increasing circles they cannott move forward or backwards in a straight line.

And damn good question, why are'nt Ma and Pa affected by the sound themselves? My answer: because sage mode may make them immune to it.

Also note, that when Naruto fought Pain, the 2 elders were preparing for the frog song genjutsu, and were not in physical contact with each other. So its not like they're disturbing each other's chakra.

Not trying to be stubborn, but you're arguments don't convince me of their not being a possibility of this.

 

[~MC117~]

Maybe.

 

[Uchiha Josephus]

Have you studied physics? If you have then you'd have known that sound is a wave which transmits like ripples in a pond and technically Jiraiya is in the path of the propagating wave, its impossible for the sound to move linearly like you described. Throw a rock in still water, the waves move outwards in ever increasing circles they cannott move forward or backwards in a straight line.

I know sound doesn't move linearly And yes, I have studied physics. I suggest you review your own physics studies on the movement of sound waves.

To dumb it down: Someone yells at you while facing you, you hear it, it's loud! Someone yells at you while facing away, you hear, it's not as loud.

And damn good question, why are'nt Ma and Pa affected by the sound themselves? My answer: because sage mode may make them immune to it.

Also note, that when Naruto fought Pain, the 2 elders were preparing for the frog song genjutsu, and were not in physical contact with each other. So its not like they're disturbing each other's chakra.

Sigh ... no. Just, just no. Shall I put it another way? If they cast this "sound" genjutsu directly into a parabolic shaped object (like a sattelite dish) it would be directed straight back and them and they'd probably be affected by it.

Not trying to be stubborn, but you're arguments don't convince me of their not being a possibility of this.

You can believe whatever you want - I just don't think it makes any sense

 

[psukkar]

If you use sage mode like jiraiya with another sage sharing chakra with u then u are fairly immune to genjutsu because all it takes to break a genjutsu is some other being feeding chakra into your body. Granny chiyo taught us this.

If u use sage mode like naruto u aren't immune because naruto isn't constantly absorbing nature chakra unless he is standing still and meditating. Might be immune while he's meditating tho.

did you know ur standing still in the real world when ur cuaght in tuki.





chakra disuption is the way to break strong genjutsu. toad sage mode is not different, jiraiya tried to teach naruto this, its a rare skill not seen in the narutoverse to deal with genjutsu. One needs great chakra control to beable to do this and toad sage mode users have high level of chakra control as they have to reform a new type chakra and the risk of turning into stone says it all.

we also see if you can do it yourself get a partner, jiraiya with the frogs the sending chkara constantly yo jiraiya this is how jiraiya can stay in sage mode for loing periods of time.

The hosts do the same with their tailed beasts.


As itachi says "all jutsu have weaknesses" itachi's genjutsu is included.

 

[NarutoKage2]

I know sound doesn't move linearly And yes, I have studied physics. I suggest you review your own physics studies on the movement of sound waves.

To dumb it down: Someone yells at you while facing you, you hear it, it's loud! Someone yells at you while facing away, you hear, it's not as loud.

That just reads Uchiha fanboy, really. If its not loud its still audible, even though its highly debatable how loud someone who's standing next to your ear and singing is relative to you.

Sigh ... no. Just, just no. Shall I put it another way? If they cast this "sound" genjutsu directly into a parabolic shaped object (like a sattelite dish) it would be directed straight back and them and they'd probably be affected by it.



You can believe whatever you want - I just don't think it makes any sense

Why do you pretend to be stupid? The sound would bounce off any physical object, it does'nt need a satellite dish. If you have music playing in a room, anyone in that room can hear it, it might vary in volume but only very slightly. It should still impact pretty much everyone the same.

What does'nt make sense is your stupidity.What your saying is the same as saying that if you have a gun you can't kill yourself with its bullets cuz their yours.
You're quite dumb, you know that? And you're also a bit of a douche.

did you know ur standing still in the real world when ur cuaght in tuki.





chakra disuption is the way to break strong genjutsu. toad sage mode is not different, jiraiya tried to teach naruto this, its a rare skill not seen in the narutoverse to deal with genjutsu. One needs great chakra control to beable to do this and toad sage mode users have high level of chakra control as they have to reform a new type chakra and the risk of turning into stone says it all.

we also see if you can do it yourself get a partner, jiraiya with the frogs the sending chkara constantly yo jiraiya this is how jiraiya can stay in sage mode for loing periods of time.

The hosts do the same with their tailed beasts.


As itachi says "all jutsu have weaknesses" itachi's genjutsu is included.

Interesting analysis. And yes, Sage chakra is very difficult to handle as proven when one of Pain's body's got turned to stone absorbing it.

 

[Jorge95]

Have you studied physics? If you have then you'd have known that sound is a wave which transmits like ripples in a pond and technically Jiraiya is in the path of the propagating wave, its impossible for the sound to move linearly like you described. Throw a rock in still water, the waves move outwards in ever increasing circles they cannott move forward or backwards in a straight line.

And damn good question, why are'nt Ma and Pa affected by the sound themselves? My answer: because sage mode may make them immune to it.

Also note, that when Naruto fought Pain, the 2 elders were preparing for the frog song genjutsu, and were not in physical contact with each other. So its not like they're disturbing each other's chakra.

Not trying to be stubborn, but you're arguments don't convince me of their not being a possibility of this.

+ rep for this. I was thinking the same way as you about that theory, but if that's correct does Juugo ability give to Kabuto the ability to "collect" nature chakra while moving? (If I'm not wrong). So in that case he is just bluffing about closing his eyes against both Uchihas. Anyway, I think the same was as you!

 

[kibaclaw]

did you know ur standing still in the real world when ur cuaght in tuki.





chakra disuption is the way to break strong genjutsu. toad sage mode is not different, jiraiya tried to teach naruto this, its a rare skill not seen in the narutoverse to deal with genjutsu. One needs great chakra control to beable to do this and toad sage mode users have high level of chakra control as they have to reform a new type chakra and the risk of turning into stone says it all.

we also see if you can do it yourself get a partner, jiraiya with the frogs the sending chkara constantly yo jiraiya this is how jiraiya can stay in sage mode for loing periods of time.

The hosts do the same with their tailed beasts.


As itachi says "all jutsu have weaknesses" itachi's genjutsu is included.

I have no idea why u quoted me before saying this because you are just rewording what i said and asking me pointless questions. What point are u trying to make here?

BTW this thread is about immunity to genjutsu not about someone having enough chakra control to break out of genjutsu they are already in. So pointing out facts that we all know already and that aren't related to this thread is a big waste of space.