[Discussion] After-birth abortion?
- Thread starter ZK
- Start date
My new signature... xd
This is true. I think it needs a new term and I'm still positive no matter what you call it people will view it as murder of some form.
Oh yes, talking about your bald head in an abortion thread really is referrable to all of those adjectives you just posted xd
I have been enlightened. lmao
btw have any of you have considered, that the ones who wrote the article about a fter-birth abortion being approvable, were just trolling the medicine world :|
Well, I am certainly against this after-birth abortion concept, but I cannot deny that it's better if 'some' children weren't born in this world.
More specifically I am speaking of the children in the video below. I am sure the government(Iraq's) will simply hide their presence (with the help of USA) and will try to delete any sign of their presence in anyway . . .
Say whatever you want to say, but I believe death is complete mercy to these babies , who will never be given the chance to live as a full human being on the going rate. .
More specifically I am speaking of the children in the video below. I am sure the government(Iraq's) will simply hide their presence (with the help of USA) and will try to delete any sign of their presence in anyway . . .
Say whatever you want to say, but I believe death is complete mercy to these babies , who will never be given the chance to live as a full human being on the going rate. .
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The term stems from the article, actually .-.
Of ocurse, literally speaking, abortion is no longer an option when the baby is born, as the birth itself represents the transition from fetus to baby.
Oh, and my apologies if the topic is a bit too much. I did a search and there's been threads about abortion before, so I didn't think this topic would differ vastly in rating.
The whole argument is based around the bolded part of your text. Is a newborn really a person? Sure, it's human and it's alive, but is it a person? (I'm not terribly good at explaining, so you might want to read the article if I only manage to confuse you)
As a newborn you have no sense of self, nor do you have any relation to anything. You have no goals, no achievements, no nothing. How does a newborn differ from a fetus? Really, the fact that you're alive doens't make you a person, does it?
The whole concept revolves around the fact that some physical and mental illnesses aren't picked up by normal scannnings, so the parents haven't had any chance of choosing whether or not they're equipped or willing to raise a handicapped child. Is it really fair to force such a child on them when they've had no choice in the matter, in the sense that they didn't know the child would be handicapped? When a handicapped child is delivered and the parents would've otherwise aborted it if they had know it would be handicappe,d do you really think they will take care of it? Many shout 'responsibility!' when abortion is brought up for debate, but aren't we punishing the child rather than the parents when we dicate, by law, that the parents have to raise the child? Unwilling parents rarely make for good parents.
I hope the topic is still debatable ^^
Again, it stems from the article.
Again, why do you consider it to be murder? Do you consider abortion muder? If yes; I can understand your point. If no; why do you consider this to be differ from an abortion.
Oh, yeah, of course I'm not talking about beheading these babies, humanitarian methods will be used, naturally.
Is this how it feels when a seemingly good and serious thread is spammed? If this is how you feel when your official stuff is blown away by spam, then I can see why you dislike spammers. Members as well as Mods, please refer form spamming a serious discussion =/ It's not needed nor wanted.
Especially not in this section...
Yes, I do consider all forms of abortion to be considered murder, but that is MY opinion. The reasoning behind the abortion is a moral one and it depends on where you get your morals. The definition of a human being differs from one person to the next and generally speaking, though I view all abortion as murder, that is not the common interpretation throughout the world. I understand that because I feel that way doesn't mean everyone else should bend to my opinion but I still feel the way I do regardless.
A newborn has been birthed so it is now a human being. It is a separate entity from it's mother, breathing on its own power (unless there were minor complications in which doctors need to correct). Sure, it is rare for children to remember anything beyond age 2 and even more so age one, but lack of cognitive skills and memories should not be the sole determination of being "human."
If the child has been removed from their mother and is capable for the most part of sustaining them-self, it is surely murder if you terminate them. (If the parent does not want to raise the child at this point due to whatever reason, they should put the child up for adoption, not murder it).
This has only recently been considered a serious topic so the above spam was not a serious breach of the thread o.o
NarutoVsGoku
Active member
I dont have a feeling that it was a troll article. When you look at what goes on in this world and what has happened in hidtory its not hard to believe people would or may pratice "after birth abortion". Im glad Scorp pointed out that the term is self contradicting. You cant abort something thats born, but i think its pretty clear what the term means.
Killing babies after they are born. The excuse would be they are disable and wouldnt have a "normal" life. They would be a burden or not happy. It would be better to prevent them living a sad life so just take their life away, save them the misery.
Some countries would kill disable or deformed babies like ancient rome. I dont find it hard to believe that this could be practiced again in the future or something.
Also on abortion, its never ok to do it. When the egg is fertilized by a sperm cell it becomes a human. Scientifically speaking the fertilized egg or zygote if my memory from high school bio is correct has 46 chromosomes. Its human. Its at its basic form but when you kill that your killing a human at its basic form thats in the process of developing.
Sure youll say it doesnt have nerves or a brain or whatever but that doesnt stop it from not being human. Its developing, growing, its a living thing. Living things they grow, develop, get older and have cells. You stop its growth your killing something human. Something that will be a baby, a child, a teen, an adult and a senior.
Theres no exception to abortion.
Btw why are people spamming about bald heads when this is a thread about abortions? Guess we might as well speak about monkey balls huh. Guys stop spamming bald shaven heads tsuchi wouldnt approve
Killing babies after they are born. The excuse would be they are disable and wouldnt have a "normal" life. They would be a burden or not happy. It would be better to prevent them living a sad life so just take their life away, save them the misery.
Some countries would kill disable or deformed babies like ancient rome. I dont find it hard to believe that this could be practiced again in the future or something.
Also on abortion, its never ok to do it. When the egg is fertilized by a sperm cell it becomes a human. Scientifically speaking the fertilized egg or zygote if my memory from high school bio is correct has 46 chromosomes. Its human. Its at its basic form but when you kill that your killing a human at its basic form thats in the process of developing.
Sure youll say it doesnt have nerves or a brain or whatever but that doesnt stop it from not being human. Its developing, growing, its a living thing. Living things they grow, develop, get older and have cells. You stop its growth your killing something human. Something that will be a baby, a child, a teen, an adult and a senior.
Theres no exception to abortion.
Btw why are people spamming about bald heads when this is a thread about abortions? Guess we might as well speak about monkey balls huh. Guys stop spamming bald shaven heads tsuchi wouldnt approve
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UchihaShippuden
Banned
Itachilover94
Active member
smh...what is this world coming to...its all about killing left and right no one has respect for eachother everyone just think they are better then the other...and my mother ask why do i spend my life in the house and my answer is because this world is nothing but living hell with people no better than the devil himself
The Riddlerr
Active member
Awards
Wouldn't a mother know whether or not she wanted a child..? There's no difference between this and murder... What's next? It's okay to kill old people because they're almost dead anyway? I mean seriously, wtf?
I made this thread in all seriousness, but you, and the rest of you spammers, simply considered it to be 'for shits and giggles' and spammed your way through. Don't blame my thread for the spam you post =/ How many troll threads do you see regarding abortion? Threads where a legit, medicinal article and a youtube video with a clip from television is included? Oh please, you knew perfectly well that this was a serious topic, you just wanted to 'run with the Mods' and therefore you spammed.
@ Bolded: I never questioned the fact that the baby is HUMAN when it leaves the mothers womb, merely whether or not it is a person. How does a fetus differ from a newborn, except for the fact that the newborn breathes on its own?
If you had no relation to anything, no memories, no cognitive or motorical skills, no aims, no achievements and was nothing but a bundle of basic needs, could you really be considered a person? Babies are only capable of partially sustaining thmselves, but, like you said, the baby hasn't magically evolved from its fetus-state to a baby, it's still, basically, a fetus for the first few hours, if not days.
I'd advice you to read the article, it explains it much better than I ever could.
@ Italicized: Again, you should really read the article. If nothing else, skip to the part where it is explained why putting the baby up for adoption isn't an ultimate solution. But, basically, once again you'll be punishing the child for its parents mistakes. Abuse, neglect, etcetera, all aren't unheard of when it comes to orphanages, and it's not like all children are adopted. Furthermore; there's no guarantee that, even if the child is adopted, the foster-parents will take good care of it. It is, sadly, completely natural to treat something that is not 'yours' as a second-ranked being.
Old people can think for themselves, they have memories, aims, achievements, experience, motoric and cognitive skills, etcetera. Babies don't.
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The Riddlerr
Active member
Awards
And what about those with Alzheimer's? They have no memories of what they've done in the past.. No idea who they are.. Who their families are.. Should they be killed as well? Some elderly people have to be nursed and looked after more than babies.. Should we just kill them?
Or what about those with other mental disabilities that interfere with their everyday life? There's people in the world who need to be looked after a lot more than a baby does, why are they suddenly different?
You're bringing up a flawed argument and trying to justify murder.
KaedaLimbu
Member
XD
i am sorry but i am against abortions which really pathetic losers who cant think of protections n cant cum outside uses...
but readin in NarutoBase is kinda... not... related,
i am sorry but i am against abortions which really pathetic losers who cant think of protections n cant cum outside uses...
but readin in NarutoBase is kinda... not... related,
My job is related to health (those who know me, know what i do lol) and i assure you, once you are born, you are a person and you have complete protection in terms of the same rights as any other adult person.
Birth is in essence that: a person is born. Because if you start picking at that concept another question rises: If you aren't a person the moment you are born, when are you? at 3 years old? 2? What if the mother suffers from post delivery depression and kills her 3 month old baby? Since its not a person, doesn't she get punished?
The base line is that once you are born, you are a person. That is undeniable and can't be discussed as it would open up to many questions and exceptions.
Now, killing a new born baby is wrong obviously. Its murder and murder is wrong, regardless of the motives and what stems behind. Regardles of any justification, muder is wrong.
Now, is abortion murder? Is the fetus alive when it has 12 weeks of gestation? 20? Is abortion a viable option?
Honestly, i think only the woman who see themselves in a point where they consider that option or where that options seems viable can reply. I'm a man. I'll never go through something like that and it will be ridiculous for me to give my opinion directly on something that i'll never experience. Its a very personal question that each person may have an opinion but that only woman may have an intimate feeling towards.
I can understand (and i've seen it) that stress, pressure, problems, worries that come with an unwanted pregnancy. I know very well what a disabled child can do to a family. I know very well that in some cases, that child if born is going to be only one more in the statistics of child abuse or poverty.
In my country, the law allows voluntary abortion up to 12 weeks and up to 20 weeks for medical reasons (if i'm not mistaken). Birth control methods are free and handed out anywhere. Education exists. So, abortion is an option left only in 5th or 6th place and not as a viable first handed option. However, i also know that not all countries have this policy and i know that not all people have acess to birth control methods.
What i can be sure though, is that killing a child is wrong. And that is in essence what happens when you do a "after birth abortion" (so many things wrong with this term i almost vomit...)
The fact that you written what you just wrote makes me think that you are about 14 years old and that your only knowledge of this matters stems from what you read on the web or what you eventually google from time to time. However, i assure you that everything you just wrote is wrong and that you fail to see the implications of many things. I advise you to get familiar with *** Education and learn a bit, otherwise you'll be bound to face this question eventually. Also, don't write curse words, its against the rules.XD
i am sorry but i am against abortions which really pathetic losers who cant think of protections n cant *** outside uses...
but readin in NarutoBase is kinda... not... related,
While i would understand a couple doing abortion while the child is still within the mothers womb.
I´m no where near agreeing to them killing actual born babies because they have come into the world and they are actual living human beings who haven´t had a chance to live yet.
For them to kill the babies is no different then murder.
They are ending lives.
I´m no where near agreeing to them killing actual born babies because they have come into the world and they are actual living human beings who haven´t had a chance to live yet.
For them to kill the babies is no different then murder.
They are ending lives.
You are simply taking things out of context now.
A new-born baby is a person by law. So, when the issue of after-birth abortion is raised, it is considered murder — by the law. But individual perceptions on when a baby becomes a person are different; quite similarly to perceptions on when life itself is actually formed. To some people, the moment of conception is the beginning of new life. To others, it is the point at which a baby could hypothetically survive outside the mother's womb (with medical support). And to some people, it is the moment when the baby is delivered.
In my view, a new-born baby is -as the article states- morally equivalent to a foetus, and is simply a more developed form of a "potential person". Therefore, I don't view after-birth abortion as murder, per se. As Scorps has rightly questioned above, this obviously depends on what one perceives a person to be; when does one become a person? What actually defines a person?
I personally am pro-choice, and I have no real prejudice against abortion. However, I find that the term should be used precariously here, because although I don't believe that after-birth abortion is murder, I don't think it classifies as "abortion" either; because to me, that signifies the riddance of a fetus still within the mother's womb. Infanticide is technically the correct term for this act, but it suggests a much more motive-driven, psychopathic angle, so it seems like too strong a word to use, in my opinion.
Abortion (before and after-birth) is a question of one's own moral and ethical judgements/beliefs. I definitely don't believe that it should be the first option in what was a mere "mistake" — when people view abortion as an easy means of accepting their carelessness is when I would draw the line. The mother is pregnant with the baby for approximately nine months; nine months is ample time to decide you want an abortion. If the reason for abortion is a medical condition which was detected only in the final trimester of gestation, all options must be seriously weighed and after-birth abortion must only act as a last resort. It isn't the easy way out; and it mustn't be seen as an alternative, because then we would have homicidal lunatics running around maternity wards across the world.
After-birth abortion seems cruel, and it can also be a severe mental burden on the people related to the baby. The psychological effects of this can cause much more harm than just post-natal depression. Even if the parents are willing to abort their child, the realisation that they have lost not just a collection of cells inside the mother's body, but a living, breathing individual in its own right — that can be traumatising.
If the government did agree to allow after-birth abortion, at which point would it state that the acceptable period for after-birth abortion would end? When does it stop being legal; a week after delivery? Two weeks? Who would decide this? Under what circumstances would after-birth abortion be determined acceptable? Must it be a valid medical reason? If so, what medical conditions would be warranted appropriate?
There are too many if's and but's when it comes to this issue, and it really all comes down to what you believe is right. The safer option would just be to let after-birth abortion remain illegal, but would it then be breaching our human rights..?
I apologise for the wall-text. I got carried away.
After rading my own small, inferior posts in this thread, I stand in awe at this piece of text, though I did not quote it all as to retain its status of being a voice of objectivity in a very subjective thread. Thank you, Miss Kibe, I shall not forget this. You saved me from my own bad explanations and arguments.
*Salutes and reps*
Though a pregancy lasts almost ten months o.o
And finally one who read the article I see.
UchihaShippuden
Banned
I am pro-choice, but I believe whether they perceive the child as "human" or not makes no difference in this situation because if the parent(s) discovers they are physically and/or emotionally unsuited to parent that child there is another option to consider before choosing something that is borderline murder. Adoption. I believe that if it is a psychological disorder in which the child would need special assistance later in life, the parents could go with either option since children of down syndrome don't necessarily "suffer". If it is a physical condition such as harlequin ichthyosis or muscular dystrophy, in which the child would endure constant pain and struggle through life day by day, it might be best for all parties involved. For it to become an option period, yes I agree with it only because I know there are many people out there (myself included) who are born with life-threatening conditions who had no choice in the matter. Because some children wouldn't even experience a life worth living, being born with such conditions, I do not see after-birth abortion as cruel, merely drastic. I also feel that if a baby cannot make the decision for themselves, then it is the parent's duty to look after the child and rationalize for them. Would they be better off choosing after-birth abortion? Would they be better off living? Ultimately it is the parent's decision and now that the topic has been brought up, it is officially up for debate and some would, naturally, feel that it goes against our human rights if they are denied this choice.
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