UzumakiNaruto20
Active member
The ninjas I consider unbeatable are:
Itachi
Minato
Nagato
Everyone else lost to somebody in their lifetime.
Itachi
Minato
Nagato
Everyone else lost to somebody in their lifetime.
How Hashirama can defend/counter the six paths.
- Thread starter narutownsyouall
- Start date
:flaw:
Im going to have to stop you right there. You are seriously overrating hashirama and underrating nagato.
first of all you are assuming that in this situation Hashirama knows all of Nagato's abilities. Hashirama did not live in an era with a rinnegan because it has never been stated that hashirama met madara post fight at the valley of the end. Hashirama would fall to the same disadvantage that jiraiya did. not knowing how the six paths worked. Plus you are pitting hashirama against each path one at a time which is also flawed because nagato used teamwork when fighting with the paths. Hashirama trying to use mokuton against all of them at once in a strategic manner would result in being attacked by at least one. now that, that discusion is out of the way. let me prove you wrong one path at a time.
Animal path: The cerberus has been shown to escape easily from things such as bindings and traps. the cerberus is not only physicly strong enough to break out of traps that cannot be escaped from, but also can divide to break out of it's traps. The other summons are also strong enough to break out of metal and break through concrete, if that is true then they can escape from wood. Also the bird is capable of ...FLYING! ie: can't be contained by mokuton because it would just fly out of the way.
also the animal path can summon the other pains. as soon as one pain is caught by mukoton the animal pain can simply summon them to another location, including one of Hashirama's blind spots.
preta path: no, it's abilities are not automatic. However you again forget how fast it is to turn on. Jiraiya flew at him full speed with the rasengan and the preta path almost instantly started absorbing it. You also forget about shared sight. even if hashirama got to a spot where preta wouldnt see the mokuton, the other pains probably would and preta would begin absorbing chakra.
also if preta was caught in the mokuton he would simply start absorbing chakra by contact and the wood would be defeated.
Asura path: yes, Hashirama can use medical ninjutsu, however we do not know the extent of it's abilities (speed efectivness, ect) Not to mention that Asura has been shown to be so incredibly strong that he was able to rip off jiraiya's arm and crush his throat in one swift motion. Asura is incredibly strong and fast so mokuton would have difficulty in grabbing him and holding him down. Even if the mokuton got a hold of him he could simply use his bladed tail, missiles, or energy cannon to smash the mokuton.
Human path: you are partially correct on this note, that human path's abilities are avoidable, however it is rare to use human path as a full on fighter. Human is more of a supplimentary fighter rather then a full on fighter. Human path would be waiting behind the others. waiting for one of the other pains to grab hold of Hashirama. if asura or preta grabs hold of hashirama then his mokuton would most certainly be out of the question (his chakra would be eaten up so no ninjutsu/ hold his arms so he cant make handsigns) Then it would be a rather simple matter of soul removal.
Naraka path: This one you are not only ignoring the naraka's abilities, but you are also completely incorrect. Naraka and Human have nothing to do with each other and can function perfectly without each other. Naraka is again, a supplimentary fighter. hiding in the back ranks and probably would be well guarded. naraka would revive any pains that are somehow defeated and would be protected by deva at all times.
Deva: This one you were almost insulting Deva and contridicted yourself. Shinra tensei has been shown to be powerful enough to smash rock, deflect bijuu dama, and level all of Konoha. It could easily break trees. Even if the mokuton were strong enough to prevent Hashirama from being pushed, that is a double edged sword. Shinra tensei has been shown to be able to smash bones just from impact force. If Hashirama held himself down with mokuton that would only be making him stiff to the impact instead of free moving.
here is an example:
Would you rather be standing on railroad tracks and be hit by a train, or standing against a wall and using the wall to support yourself and then getting hit by the train. Using the wall to support yourself you are only turning what would have been a life threatening blow from the front, into a body crushing double impact. You would be crushed to death.
the same applies to hashirama supporting himself with mokuton while being hit by shinra tensei. The impact would probably do near fatal damage.
Again you ignore teamwork. By using bansho tenin, deva can draw hashirama into the arms of asura, preta, or human path, all of which would leave him in a fatal situation.
The chibaku tensei is one of the few points I will agree with you on. Hashirama probably would be able to destroy it with mokuton. However considering the above, i doubt it would be necesarry
-The gedo mazo: The strongest that the shinobi army could muster couldnt even hinder the gedo mazo. Insinuating that mokuton would be enough to stop a giant monster empowered by several tailed beasts is a massive flaw on your part.
other points to note: You seem to forget the chakra disruption blades. not only are they capable of cutting through chakra and flesh wih ease, they could cut through mokuton. Once pain gets one blade into hashirama, then he can start manipulating him and holding him down. Even one blade is enough to alter motions and hinder the opponent, resulting in the other pains being able to overwealm him.
Yes Hashirama is a great shinobi. but come back with more solid answers then mokuton, mokuton, mokuton. when you come up with a better solution. tell me.
Im going to have to stop you right there. You are seriously overrating hashirama and underrating nagato.
first of all you are assuming that in this situation Hashirama knows all of Nagato's abilities. Hashirama did not live in an era with a rinnegan because it has never been stated that hashirama met madara post fight at the valley of the end. Hashirama would fall to the same disadvantage that jiraiya did. not knowing how the six paths worked. Plus you are pitting hashirama against each path one at a time which is also flawed because nagato used teamwork when fighting with the paths. Hashirama trying to use mokuton against all of them at once in a strategic manner would result in being attacked by at least one. now that, that discusion is out of the way. let me prove you wrong one path at a time.
Animal path: The cerberus has been shown to escape easily from things such as bindings and traps. the cerberus is not only physicly strong enough to break out of traps that cannot be escaped from, but also can divide to break out of it's traps. The other summons are also strong enough to break out of metal and break through concrete, if that is true then they can escape from wood. Also the bird is capable of ...FLYING! ie: can't be contained by mokuton because it would just fly out of the way.
also the animal path can summon the other pains. as soon as one pain is caught by mukoton the animal pain can simply summon them to another location, including one of Hashirama's blind spots.
preta path: no, it's abilities are not automatic. However you again forget how fast it is to turn on. Jiraiya flew at him full speed with the rasengan and the preta path almost instantly started absorbing it. You also forget about shared sight. even if hashirama got to a spot where preta wouldnt see the mokuton, the other pains probably would and preta would begin absorbing chakra.
also if preta was caught in the mokuton he would simply start absorbing chakra by contact and the wood would be defeated.
Asura path: yes, Hashirama can use medical ninjutsu, however we do not know the extent of it's abilities (speed efectivness, ect) Not to mention that Asura has been shown to be so incredibly strong that he was able to rip off jiraiya's arm and crush his throat in one swift motion. Asura is incredibly strong and fast so mokuton would have difficulty in grabbing him and holding him down. Even if the mokuton got a hold of him he could simply use his bladed tail, missiles, or energy cannon to smash the mokuton.
Human path: you are partially correct on this note, that human path's abilities are avoidable, however it is rare to use human path as a full on fighter. Human is more of a supplimentary fighter rather then a full on fighter. Human path would be waiting behind the others. waiting for one of the other pains to grab hold of Hashirama. if asura or preta grabs hold of hashirama then his mokuton would most certainly be out of the question (his chakra would be eaten up so no ninjutsu/ hold his arms so he cant make handsigns) Then it would be a rather simple matter of soul removal.
Naraka path: This one you are not only ignoring the naraka's abilities, but you are also completely incorrect. Naraka and Human have nothing to do with each other and can function perfectly without each other. Naraka is again, a supplimentary fighter. hiding in the back ranks and probably would be well guarded. naraka would revive any pains that are somehow defeated and would be protected by deva at all times.
Deva: This one you were almost insulting Deva and contridicted yourself. Shinra tensei has been shown to be powerful enough to smash rock, deflect bijuu dama, and level all of Konoha. It could easily break trees. Even if the mokuton were strong enough to prevent Hashirama from being pushed, that is a double edged sword. Shinra tensei has been shown to be able to smash bones just from impact force. If Hashirama held himself down with mokuton that would only be making him stiff to the impact instead of free moving.
here is an example:
Would you rather be standing on railroad tracks and be hit by a train, or standing against a wall and using the wall to support yourself and then getting hit by the train. Using the wall to support yourself you are only turning what would have been a life threatening blow from the front, into a body crushing double impact. You would be crushed to death.
the same applies to hashirama supporting himself with mokuton while being hit by shinra tensei. The impact would probably do near fatal damage.
Again you ignore teamwork. By using bansho tenin, deva can draw hashirama into the arms of asura, preta, or human path, all of which would leave him in a fatal situation.
The chibaku tensei is one of the few points I will agree with you on. Hashirama probably would be able to destroy it with mokuton. However considering the above, i doubt it would be necesarry
-The gedo mazo: The strongest that the shinobi army could muster couldnt even hinder the gedo mazo. Insinuating that mokuton would be enough to stop a giant monster empowered by several tailed beasts is a massive flaw on your part.
other points to note: You seem to forget the chakra disruption blades. not only are they capable of cutting through chakra and flesh wih ease, they could cut through mokuton. Once pain gets one blade into hashirama, then he can start manipulating him and holding him down. Even one blade is enough to alter motions and hinder the opponent, resulting in the other pains being able to overwealm him.
Yes Hashirama is a great shinobi. but come back with more solid answers then mokuton, mokuton, mokuton. when you come up with a better solution. tell me.
UzumakiNaruto20
Active member
ThEpRoMiSeDlAnD
Member
Maybe one at a time he can counter them but when used all at once and focused he has no chance. 8 different powerful techniques will just overwhelm hashi. He's basically fighting 6 people in one and as stated in the manga before when negato uses the paths in his own healthy body they are far more powerful.
Just because naruto with stood a small scale shinra tensi does not mean hashi can do the same. You people act like hashis Mokton is as hard as diamond it's still wood the same wood that most of konoha was created out of and we saw how well it held up against nuke scale shinra tensi what makes you thinking he could stop that. Hashi has never faced a Rin user he has no idea the power one wields.
Asura, human, animal, preta, and deva path used together is way to much to deal with at one time. And let's not forget negato is fast so all that power plus speed will def over whelm him. And yes hashi tamed nine tails but that was one summon negato can summon at least 6 bosses. And let's not forget Gedo Mazo and it's soul eating dragon, the same gedo mazo that can hold all 9 tailed beast within it. He can fly (levitate) and all mukton does for chibaku tense is feed it as soon as its created it is pulled into the sphere. Hashi was a great ninja but negato is to much for anyone that has not info or a Rin themselves.
Ever since the last two chapters people have been jumping on hashi ****. Stop over rating him and use logic. Mukton alone can not beat all 6 paths wether they are being used by negato himself or his paths of pain. You need to understand he wi not be fighting the paths one by one and the only way he would get a one on one is if he fought negato himself which is even more dangerous than the paths.
Just because naruto with stood a small scale shinra tensi does not mean hashi can do the same. You people act like hashis Mokton is as hard as diamond it's still wood the same wood that most of konoha was created out of and we saw how well it held up against nuke scale shinra tensi what makes you thinking he could stop that. Hashi has never faced a Rin user he has no idea the power one wields.
Asura, human, animal, preta, and deva path used together is way to much to deal with at one time. And let's not forget negato is fast so all that power plus speed will def over whelm him. And yes hashi tamed nine tails but that was one summon negato can summon at least 6 bosses. And let's not forget Gedo Mazo and it's soul eating dragon, the same gedo mazo that can hold all 9 tailed beast within it. He can fly (levitate) and all mukton does for chibaku tense is feed it as soon as its created it is pulled into the sphere. Hashi was a great ninja but negato is to much for anyone that has not info or a Rin themselves.
Ever since the last two chapters people have been jumping on hashi ****. Stop over rating him and use logic. Mukton alone can not beat all 6 paths wether they are being used by negato himself or his paths of pain. You need to understand he wi not be fighting the paths one by one and the only way he would get a one on one is if he fought negato himself which is even more dangerous than the paths.
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8 boss summonings actually. Everything else you just said I completely agree + rep.
sorry,but a correction on your comment and many other's comment-nagato can use the rain technique to detect presence only in amaegakure/hidden rain village.
if he could have used it elsewhere,he would have used it in konoha,to find out where naruto was,duh!:shrug:instead he started to spread out and search konoha and even went to the trouble of asking tsunade!
well as for my opinion on how hashirama can counter the six paths, mechanical path won't prove very useful,deva path can be countered if hashirama knows very well about it.the only thing that can cause a problem to hashirama is chibaku tensei.well we saw naruto and the kyuubi break out of it.for a guy like hashirama who has fought and defeated the kyuubi and madara,he can figure a way out of chibaku tensei.
remember guys,hashirama is a guy that took on madara and a kyuubi that was fully in his control,he must have a lot of chakra as well.as for nagato,he will probaly wear out after something like chibaku tensei or shinra tensei.
hashirama does not have that problem.but considering nagato's abilities,it would one of hashirama's toughest battles ever!
i would say hashirama wins this-high difficulty!
although this would really depend upon how much of information hashirama has on nagato and the rinnegan!:shrug:
if he has full details,trust me nagato is gonna get his ass kicked big time!xd
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UzumakiNaruto20
Active member
I don't see why the technique would be location specific. But IMO he was just taking pleasure out of doing to Konoha what they did to his village by killing and destroying everything
ThEpRoMiSeDlAnD
Member
All that you're going on is that Hari took Madara and the fox on. All we have on that fight is a canon video and hype from fanboys. Nagato has more chakra shown than anyone on this series.(jinchuriki aside). You can't say Harishima chakra > Nagatos at this point.sorry,but a correction on your comment and many other's comment-nagato can use the rain technique to detect presence only in amaegakure/hidden rain village.
if he could have used it elsewhere,he would have used it in konoha,to find out where naruto was,duh!:shrug:instead he started to spread out and search konoha and even went to the trouble of asking tsunade!
well as for my opinion on how hashirama can counter the six paths, mechanical path won't prove very useful,deva path can be countered if hashirama knows very well about it.the only thing that can cause a problem to hashirama is chibaku tensei.well we saw naruto and the kyuubi break out of it.for a guy like hashirama who has fought and defeated the kyuubi and madara,he can figure a way out of chibaku tensei.
remember guys,hashirama is a guy that took on madara and a kyuubi that was fully in his control,he must have a lot of chakra as well.as for nagato,he will probaly wear out after something like chibaku tensei or shinra tensei.
hashirama does not have that problem.but considering nagato's abilities,it would one of hashirama's toughest battles ever!
i would say hashirama wins this-high difficulty!
Chibaku Tensei and Shinra Tensei are always last resort moves probably won't even be needed.
yea,when u look at it from a certain angle,that might be true,but man,pain desperately wanted naruto!the way he went about searching for naruto,u can clearly see him desperately wanting naruto!:shrug:
i don't see why he wouldn't use that technique there.about destroying konoha,he could do it while using this technique searching for him.
so why didn't he use it?cauz there is only one explanation-he can't!
besides,nagato is a guy who likes his work to be done fast and without much hazzle!:shrug:
get this,man.madara and the fox combined does have more chakra than nagato!surely you can accept that can't u?.....
then about chibaku tensei,just think clearly man!....naruto and kyuubi(uncontrolled) broke out of it! for a guy that's taken on a fully controlled kyuubi with a guy experienced as madara,he sure as hell will be able to find out a way out of it.
about shinra tensei,hashirama can create a forest thats big as a village and counter it easily!
but as i said,it will all depend upon how much information hashirama has on him.if he has full information on nagato and rinnegan,nagato will be raped!
The jutsu is called Rain Tiger at Will Technique and you will see here
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He used it specifically for his village and whenever left the village so he can keep watch on it. It wasen't neccessary to use it because he knew could drag Naruto out without it.
Anyone with full information on a shinobi would surely have the advantage
I guess we can assume Nagato has full info on Harishima o wait we don't even have that info
So what if Kyubbi has more chakra than Nagato? So your saying Harisshima has more chakra than the Kyubbi and Madara combined. Harishima has controlled the tailed beast before its not like it was too much on an impossible task for him.
Are you forggetting the fact NAgato was not even at full power. Hooked was up to a machine. He fought off an entire village of Jounins before blowing it to bits with Shenra Tensei. Took on Naruto and the Toadds without the Deva Path. Pinned down Naruto and soloed the transforming fox with Deva Path alone.
well,what u are forgetting about the machine is that it has it's advantages too.............!CO-ORDINATED VISION!because of that,he could read through any shinobi's moves!Anyone with full information on a shinobi would surely have the advantage
I guess we can assume Nagato has full info on Harishima o wait we don't even have that info
So what if Kyubbi has more chakra than Nagato? So your saying Harisshima has more chakra than the Kyubbi and Madara combined. Harishima has controlled the tailed beast before its not like it was too much on an impossible task for him.
Are you forggetting the fact NAgato was not even at full power. Hooked was up to a machine. He fought off an entire village of Jounins before blowing it to bits with Shenra Tensei. Took on Naruto and the Toadds without the Deva Path. Pinned down Naruto and soloed the transforming fox with Deva Path alone.
about shinra tensei,it can be easily countered if hashirama creates a forrest as big as a village!
about soloing the fox,you are forgetting he had to use chibaku tensei!and the fox broke out of it!
About chakra,i'm not saying he has more chakra than madara and fox combined,but only saying that he has massive chakra!
another thing is that we know every technique that nagato has!but,we are yet to know of hashirama's full extent of powers!until recently we didn't know he could heal himself without hand signs!we are yet to know of his abilities!
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How can a forest counter shinra tensei? It obliterated a village than the 1st created. Sorry that just doesn't make sense. Before I get completely blown away and obliterated ill make a forest? huh. Harishima won't even see it coming. Ok he is a Senju just because he took on Madara and that fox that does not mean he will be able to outlast Nagato.
Nagato = greatest stamina feats to date besides Naruto.
:flaw::flaw:We don't have enough info on Hashi but you can't say Hashi willl win and then fall back too this point. :flaw::flaw:
BTW the machine doesn't do anything. The Rinnegan abilities already had coordinated vision because of the paths. The machine was nothing more than a life support for NAgato because he became ill.
For Hashirama to be considered a myth then he must've had more abilities than shown. With the abilities he's shown through both himself and Madara's stolen power is a good feat but not necessarily enough to be holding off all six paths at once.
Deva Path manipulating gravity while the animal summons attack. During that time, Asura's missiles might be trying to blow him up while he uses Bansho Tennin in an attempt to draw him in and use Human Path. He can activate Preta Path at all times just incase Hashirama attempts to use water style as well (which he should be able to use since he pretty much combined earth style and water style to make his wood style) though he would most likely not use it since he could just use his Mokuton for offense and defense. Hashirama would need to be highly concentrating to avoid the 6 paths and 5 elements coming to him at once. During this time, Gedo Mazo might also be roaming around the battlefield.
Hashirama could restrict the movements of the animal summons but ofcourse, he would need to be concentrating to restrict them since the wood itself doesn't act on its own and that will be pretty hard to do while attempting to defend yourself from all angles as well. If only one path could be used at a time then I would be betting this on Hashirama but it's a fact that Nagato could use more than one path at a time which was shown against KM Naruto and Bee.
Creating a forest and a village with his Mokuton is a big feat when it comes to creation that could have made people believe that his power was a fairy tale but it isn't impossible to have other techniques in his arsenal that haven't been shown that actually made him hold his own against Madara and Kurama at once up to the point were he stripped Kurama out of Madara's control and managed to defeat him. The Flower Technique for example, I didn't know Hashirama had a technique that could release spores to make his opponents drowzy. I also didn't know Hashirama could self heal his wounds without weaving signs.
With the current abilities Hashirama was said and shown to have, I don't think he would win against Nagato. Though the flower technique itself might be a tide turner that could force Nagato to use his large-scale Shinra Tensei which would then render his Deva Path inactivefor an extended amount of time. That would be one less Path Hashirama would have to worry about.
That is, if Nagato hadn't used it already because if he previously did and Hashirama uses the Flower Tree World Technique during the long interval, then I see Nagato falling asleep and he wouldn't be able to use Deva Path to fly away. That could give Hashirama the time to kill Nagato while he's asleep after he holds down the animal summons.
Deva Path manipulating gravity while the animal summons attack. During that time, Asura's missiles might be trying to blow him up while he uses Bansho Tennin in an attempt to draw him in and use Human Path. He can activate Preta Path at all times just incase Hashirama attempts to use water style as well (which he should be able to use since he pretty much combined earth style and water style to make his wood style) though he would most likely not use it since he could just use his Mokuton for offense and defense. Hashirama would need to be highly concentrating to avoid the 6 paths and 5 elements coming to him at once. During this time, Gedo Mazo might also be roaming around the battlefield.
Hashirama could restrict the movements of the animal summons but ofcourse, he would need to be concentrating to restrict them since the wood itself doesn't act on its own and that will be pretty hard to do while attempting to defend yourself from all angles as well. If only one path could be used at a time then I would be betting this on Hashirama but it's a fact that Nagato could use more than one path at a time which was shown against KM Naruto and Bee.
Creating a forest and a village with his Mokuton is a big feat when it comes to creation that could have made people believe that his power was a fairy tale but it isn't impossible to have other techniques in his arsenal that haven't been shown that actually made him hold his own against Madara and Kurama at once up to the point were he stripped Kurama out of Madara's control and managed to defeat him. The Flower Technique for example, I didn't know Hashirama had a technique that could release spores to make his opponents drowzy. I also didn't know Hashirama could self heal his wounds without weaving signs.
With the current abilities Hashirama was said and shown to have, I don't think he would win against Nagato. Though the flower technique itself might be a tide turner that could force Nagato to use his large-scale Shinra Tensei which would then render his Deva Path inactivefor an extended amount of time. That would be one less Path Hashirama would have to worry about.
That is, if Nagato hadn't used it already because if he previously did and Hashirama uses the Flower Tree World Technique during the long interval, then I see Nagato falling asleep and he wouldn't be able to use Deva Path to fly away. That could give Hashirama the time to kill Nagato while he's asleep after he holds down the animal summons.
he doesnt have to spam lol but he can still kill during where his bijus re out and you're clearly denying it when there is manga proof
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he can still give the killing blow not necessarily needs to spam techs.
konan only said that she knew his weakness not both of them so stop making up crap
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where the hell did she say her and nagato know about his techs. Granted i think he knew too but the same would be the case vice versa.
naruto's frog katas beat him even if nagato can use paths together he can't take on 12 km clones who are kage level and one sm clone just needs to use frog kata to beat him. He can't handle all them lol and kyubi was never beat by nagato what the hell manga have you been reading.
Nagato got his arms ripped off when two ppl were distracting him and he got his arms ripped off by itachi's sussano.
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and you're saying 12 KM clones cant make a distraction enough to get one frog kats or other techs on him lol. You're such a fanboy in denial. Not to mention.
HE never beat kyubi lol it broke out how do you somehow change the story
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well,i didn't say "a forest",i said a "forest just as big as a village":flaw:
about the machine part,u're wrong!the machine allows nagato to control more than one body,which in turn allows co-ordinated vision!you do know the part where naruto seperates one of the pains to obstruct the co-ordinated vision the pains share!
for eg:tendo pain can sense danger to himself by the means of his fellow pains!if nagato had all the powers concentrated in him,ofcourse it would give him immense power,but he won't have co-ordinated vision like when he's in 6 bodies!as u said,it also acts a life support for him!xd
as for the shinra tensei,i guess i was wrong........
about the hashirama's skills not yet discovered fully,i said it cauz ......well.....
.....cauz u were undermining hashirama saying nagato won't be even needing chibaku or shinra tensei!