Why the 2nd>4th Hokage!

kaka96

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Yes and what happened then? He challenged Hashirama for the title of First Hokage yes? So in my mind it was still in dispute until Hashirama won.
No ._. because he had to leave Konoha making him a runaway and go after Kurama, he was no longer eligible for the post so Hashi was the only one left.
He challenged im to take over but Hashi was already technically the Hokage IMO

Anyways let's not get too much of topic lol, this doesn't matter at all :|
 

Itachi Namikaze

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No ._. because he had to leave Konoha making him a runaway and go after Kurama, he was no longer eligible for the post so Hashi was the only one left.
He challenged im to take over but Hashi was already technically the Hokage IMO

Anyways let's not get too much of topic lol, this doesn't matter at all :|
Ok cool beans. Anyway I still think Tobirama is better than Hashirama.
 

aashish1996

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Ok cool beans. Anyway I still think Tobirama is better than Hashirama.
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hmm.... you have solid evidence to support your theory but I am not sure why how having more points means victory.... If minato can just touch the 2nd hokage in a taijutsu combat (which should be easy since minato's base speed is insane and he has fast reaction too), then it should be instant win for Minato.... If we were to go with you theory then, doesn't that mean current sasuke can is stronger than itachi? You also have to take into account people's brain and minato is considered a genius so I can't see the 2nd winning..... :shrug:
 

Viewtiful

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I've been gone a couple of days, and I've only the strength to go through the first page, so bear with me.

Here's my POV:

Tobirama was awesome, no doubt. Labeled as THE greatest Water Release use in history, bar none and the most powerful shinobi in the world after his brother's death. Apparently able to seemingly generate water from no visible location. Creator of Edo Tensei (never perfected it himself though). Supposed to be somewhere near Minato in terms of skill with S/T techniques. Again, freakin' awesome.

However, Minato is just as awesome if not more in my opinion. Taught a plethora of Uzumaki sealing techniques by Kushina, and could fully utilize the Dead Demon Consuming Seal.

He realized that using hand seals would be much more time consuming than not using them, he created two uber techs that didn't rely them: Rasengan and the Flying Thunder God, as well as knowing the Contract Seal. I often see users posting something along the lines of "that's all Minato uses" or that's all he knows. The problem with that logic is that Minato used FTG so much because it was massively useful. Come on. Instantaneous teleportation.

Even the ex-fastest ninja in the world (A) and his "perfect Jinchuriki" brother together couldn't combat that. Add the fact that the seal markings can be applied on the fly and you've got one of the most difficult to deal with techniques in the series.

Hell, it allowed him to take out the entire opposing Iwagakure force single handedly in a less than a second, turning the entire tide of the war in Konoha's favor.

Add the fact that 3 Kage level ninja spoke of him being able to surpass all other ninja in history and you realize the reason he's hyped up so much.

So, I personally go with Minato > Tobirama, mid or high difficulty, but a win nonetheless. I still think Tobirama was bad ass, so don't think I'm not. :p
 

Troll

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Full of flaws U_U I will slowly edit to bring em out I also want to say That I'm not saying Minato > tobirama either, but if we are to compare them, we outta be honest. I myself am a defender of Tobirama's power and have done so on many occasions.

TO start out with

Genjutsu : Tobirama use of bringer of darkness is a lie. Hashirama was the one to use it in the manga

Space-time: although Tobirama is good, Minato was said to be better or implied to be better more than once.

Taijutsu: The sword of thunder god is also anime only and is completely stupid IMO considering he's a suiton master. Not only is minato faster as you said, but he had enough power to nearly cut an entire tentacle of Hachibi while in mid-air. And fast enough reflexes to activate his FTG while been sucked up by Tobi or having A's super speed punch at about a centimeter of his face
dude wiki tobirama's ass and see thats hes justsu and + he is stronger then minato in ninjutsu he created the edotensei you want more then that
 

3MESSIAH

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tobirama could aswell really be better than minato,but we didnt see him in some real fight to the death to be able to evaluate his abilities to defeat minato.altough what i have seen from minato,that is some speed man :) it all comes down to space/time jutsus.if minato`s are better,then he wins xd
 

3lb00s

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wow, flaws flaws flaws, but regarding the true facts, Minato could take him, in a hard fought fight, but it`s Minato, remember it was said that Minato never had to go full on on a opponent... (so, he still had stuff we don`t know up his sleeves)
 

Vexorian

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Taking the flaws away, I'll say minato would win with Mid Diff. The funnniest thing was, you said that Tobirama, who was said to not have the strongest Edos, which leads me to believe he couldn't summon high ranking ninjas, you said that his Edos are stronger than Giant Toads. That sir, is a lie. I believe the strongest thing Tobirama could summon would be a Strong Jounin, now you'll agree Toads > S Jounin, right?

I'll point more points out later.
The toads are rather less than useful in a fight against Shinobi, as shown by Pain's Invasion. S-Rank Jounin are far more useful, considering they have an unlimited chakra supply and their own created techniques. Just my opinion obviously. It isn't as if Fukasaku and Shima would be useful either, because Minato cannot go into Sage Mode. They'd die a quick death.

Experience is a + for Nidaime, as well as Ninjutsu mastery. Genjutsu is equal in that they don't possess it. Taijutsu is comparable, and Nidaime would have an advantage because, like Kisame, he would summon water to his location in vast amounts for easier use of his techniques, including which would be Suijinheki, Water Prison, Water Clones, and all of his other high rank techniques. Either could win this fight, but make no mistake, Minato WOULD NOT be able to speed blitz Nidaime, considering he has knowledge of Minato's techniques, and had a hand in creating them. The "Minato speed blitz and wins in 1 second" is a fail idea anyways because it simply wouldn't happen to a high rank shinobi.

If the battle is drawn out, Minato loses. If he can end it in a decent amount of time he has as good a chance as Nidaime at winning it. Either way, it would be a good battle. Nidaime high difficulty.
 
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Gatsuuga

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wow, flaws flaws flaws, but regarding the true facts, Minato could take him, in a hard fought fight, but it`s Minato, remember it was said that Minato never had to go full on on a opponent... (so, he still had stuff we don`t know up his sleeves)
Care to explain which bits you see as flaws? If they are legitimate than i'm happy to change them, if your just being a fanboy then I don't know:sy:
 

xxSAGExx

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I understand that he was said to have various seals, but to say what they were would be pure speculation. On the 8 trigram seal (i wonder why it wasn't on Narutopedia) it takes preparation (to summon the alter) to perform and also requires the 'container' in which the object is to be sealed to be on the sacred alter. I don't see Minato using it in mid battle.
You do know Naruto was a baby and couldn't stand up or anything right? Wiki is unreliable. 8 triagram seal seal chakra and that's all as far as we know.

they aren't escaping. minato changed locations. and neji was searching an opening.

when you see that you have no hope of victory and just teleport to somewhere where your opponent can't find you means escaping. and it's accepting the lose.
Minato doesn't have to run away, just use his kunias in other locations to better aid him. Why can't Minato just grab a edo tensei and teleport it to that location? It's a great strategy to limit the fight to 1 on 1 allowing Minato to seal it and return to Tobirama.

Yet no one has disputed by final point (the nail in the coffin section), even if I take out the section with the sword of the thunder god I still think he wins.
Chidori and rasengan was enough to break that sword and Minato' rasengan is almost as big to Naruto's oodama rasengan so it's quiet powerful plus Minato does use his special kunia as a weapon.

there is no appearence of 2nd after he said sarutobi to be the 3rd nd he was not that old to give up his position so maybe he knew that he was goin to end up as a decoy . moreover if a hokage cannot stand against some 20 ninjas maybe all jounin , he is obviously weaker than namikaze minato !
If Tobirama was all that powerful then why couldn't he just use edo tensei to better his team chances, use his S/T jutsus to evade the ninjas long enough for Hiruzen's team to get far enough then escape? He's suppose to be the strongest water jutsu user then how come he couldnt use some powerful water jutsu like Kisame's colliding water wave or something to that effect along with his team?

i give it to the second.. although minato has better speed its my opinion that the 2nd is just way more powerful
You don't even know what either one can fully do...

All good points.



obviously you are a fan of Minato judging by your username. Also you are wrong it was 20 elite bounty hunter ninja's (the ones that take back criminals). Also how can you kill 1000 ninja at once? For interest sake can you show me this manga page?
I don't know how much there were but I'm pretty sure he's talking about how Minato took out platoons or ninjas in mere seconds. Konoha's ninjas were having trouble until Minato came, the enemy ninjas saw Minato, freaked out and tried to run (flee on sight orders were given if they saw Minato).

The toads are rather less than useful in a fight against Shinobi, as shown by Pain's Invasion. S-Rank Jounin are far more useful, considering they have an unlimited chakra supply and their own created techniques. Just my opinion obviously. It isn't as if Fukasaku and Shima would be useful either, because Minato cannot go into Sage Mode. They'd die a quick death.

Experience is a + for Nidaime, as well as Ninjutsu mastery. Genjutsu is equal in that they don't possess it. Taijutsu is comparable, and Nidaime would have an advantage because, like Kisame, he would summon water to his location in vast amounts for easier use of his techniques, including which would be Suijinheki, Water Prison, Water Clones, and all of his other high rank techniques. Either could win this fight, but make no mistake, Minato WOULD NOT be able to speed blitz Nidaime, considering he has knowledge of Minato's techniques, and had a hand in creating them. The "Minato speed blitz and wins in 1 second" is a fail idea anyways because it simply wouldn't happen to a high rank shinobi.

If the battle is drawn out, Minato loses. If he can end it in a decent amount of time he has as good a chance as Nidaime at winning it. Either way, it would be a good battle. Nidaime high difficulty.
Wow no logic... First you have no idea what water jutsu's Tobirama have exept the 2-3 he used against Hiruzen so don't start naming jutsus you've seen Kisame use or I can easily say Minato has toad stomach, Oodama rasengan, rasen rengan, Sage Mode and every other sage jutsus Naruto and Jiraiya used since Minato has a contract with the toads too. Second, you don't know how Tobirama's S/T jutsu works but Minato showed he knew about it and Minato made FTG after he learned the Uzumaki's sealing techniques from Kushina (He stated she made him the 4th Hokage and a father).

Ma and Pa toad frog song would end the fight altogeher with Minato. Minato beat Tobi with his speed, Yes Tobi who couldn't be hit by A or die from Konan's 10 minute explosion. We don't know if Minato can or cannot enter Sage Mode until it's revealed in the manga, he never had the time to enter it when Tobi attacked. Against Tobirama he can do the same thing as Jiraiya and ride a toad as he gather natural chakra.
 
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