Why the 2nd>4th Hokage!

[The Eye]

actually he was ass at creating shadow clones, it took him (idk how long) a long time to accomplish this.

the same could be said the 2nd Hokage, those able to use water release is a given but them being able to use it on a similar level cant be compared to (except for Kisame probably)

Naruto's improvement shows that Minato's rasengan is now basic (not saying weak)

rasengan was never a complete jutsu to begin with. the forth just died before he can finish it. naruto is the only one to actually master it.konohamaru might be next though

 

[home]

i agree 2nd > 4th

 

[blazekev90]

Naruto was ass at crating clones

He mastered Shadow clones in a matter of hours with the scroll

the 2 techniques are not the same

wht were u watching?? lol and i know the technques aren't the same, u tried to mention shadow clones as an example but failed.

 

[Gatsuuga]

He had the sealing techniques of the Uzumaki clan. He also had a seal potent enough to seal half the kyubi within Naruto ( eight trim gram ) was able to manipulate it to place a 2 different chakra reserves that would appear under specific circumstances and was able to manipulate Kushina's seal to implant his FTG in it. Saying he only use FTG seal and Reaper seal is just stupid

I understand that he was said to have various seals, but to say what they were would be pure speculation. On the 8 trigram seal (i wonder why it wasn't on Narutopedia) it takes preparation (to summon the alter) to perform and also requires the 'container' in which the object is to be sealed to be on the sacred alter. I don't see Minato using it in mid battle.

 

[spatha]

Wow alot of posts its hard to keep up....

I agree with you that minato's speed an reflexes would be a problem. I set out my post like that so after finishing the reader was able to take all the different parts into consideration and form there own judgement. When taking all of these factors into consideration myself, I would say Tobirama still with extremely high difficultly. This is based on the fact that I think he is an overall more rounded ninja (and therefore would have more options), but in saying that Minato is very very strong. I guess it comes down to personal opinion. Also in regards to Minato sealing the edo, doing so would create and opening for Tobiramam and the distraction could be fatal.


Hey I just had a look and the sword was mentioned in a fillerU_U, so I think i may take it out. Still unkillable s-rank jounin aren't to be sneezed at, and the time it would take for minato to seal them would give tobirama an opening. Also the only seal he has shown that would help him seal them is the reaper death seal, which would kill himself, so I don't see him using it unless it was a last resort.

While i respect your opinion and grounded argument as opposed to the numerous minato haters haha, we must simply agree to disagree. While you say sealing those ET poses a problem, i dont see it as much of an opening, remember, minato is considered to be a genius, i believe it was said he was one even among the kage level ninja (correct me if im wrong) and given that he would have intel on tobirama, he would probably assume he would eventually attack during a sealing, and once again could quickly seal one and FTG out, or for all we know he can use hand seals in transit, meaning he can flash step around, untouchable, and spawn behind one, seal it and be gone in an instant. Also, while we have really only seen the reaper death seal, i think its safe to assume that he knows many more seals, given you yourself acclaimed him as a master sealer. One impressive tech does not make you a master, but is included in a vast portfolio of techs, namingly many of the uzumaki seals we can assume kushina taught him.

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

i agree 2nd > 4th

And then Kishi reveals that Minato has more jutsu's than Kakashi

 

[kaka96]

I understand that he was said to have various seals, but to say what they were would be pure speculation. On the 8 trigram seal (i wonder why it wasn't on Narutopedia) it takes preparation to perform and also requires the 'container' in which the object is to be sealed to be on the sacred alter. I don't see Minato using it in mid battle.

No speculations, it was mentioned by A

The wiki is not 100% reliable ya know

8trigram was only an example to prove he had more

 

[kaka96]

wht were u watching?? lol and i know the technques aren't the same, u tried to mention shadow clones as an example but failed.

I failed in no way.

He was lame at clones that act more as genjutsu than regular ninjutsu ( which he sucks at from being stupid ) when he tried to learn Shadow clones which requires a single hand seal, it took him less than a day even Jiraiya said that since Rasengan had no hand seal, it was perfect for him

And we all knw that his chakra control was broken by Kyubi

 

[Gatsuuga]

No speculations, it was mentioned by A

The wiki is not 100% reliable ya know

8trigram was only an example to prove he had more

But we have no idea what they are, so using the example of he had more seals as a counter to Tobirama winning or losing hold no ground. Also as no one has disputed it yet and you and I are having a good discussion, what is your opinion on the section 'The nail in the coffin'. If Tobirama is said to be = to Hashirama than it stands to logic that he wins against Minato. I don't think many people would argue that Minato beats Hashirama.

 

[kaka96]

But we have no idea what they are so they can't be use the example of he had more seals as a counter to Tobirama winning or losing. Also as no one has disputed it yet and you and I are having a good discussion, what is your opinion on the section 'The nail in the coffin'. If Tobirama is said to be = to Hashirama than it stands to logic that he wins against Minato. I don't think many people would argue that Minato beats Hashirama.

When was Tobirama said to be = to Hashirama?? Show me that and I'll agree that he wins. but as I said at the stat, I'm a defender of Tobirama , I am not saying Minato would win , I'm only trying to equalize things by correcting facts that are wrong.

 

[spatha]

another thing on the shadow clones. How could that tech be considered basic? If you loko it up, its a b-rank ninjutsu that very few ninja can use on large scale. Naruto mastered it quickly, not because of its simplicity, but because he had such vast chakra reserves that he most likely just unloaded a ton of it around him and willed it to change. Remember, kakashi once passed out from making half a dozen and keeping them alive for too long.

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

But we have no idea what they are, so using the example of he had more seals as a counter to Tobirama winning or losing hold no ground. Also as no one has disputed it yet and you and I are having a good discussion, what is your opinion on the section 'The nail in the coffin'. If Tobirama is said to be = to Hashirama than it stands to logic that he wins against Minato. I don't think many people would argue that Minato beats Hashirama.

But how do we know Hashirama > Minato? If Minato can escape any battle via FTG how is it that someone kills him?

 

[Gatsuuga]

When was Tobirama said to be = to Hashirama?? Show me that and I'll agree that he wins. but as I said at the stat, I'm a defender of Tobirama , I am not saying Minato would win , I'm only trying to equalize things by correcting facts that are wrong.

Check the <nail in the coffin> section in the original post, and have a look at the manga page.

 

[blazekev90]

I failed in no way.

He was lame at clones that act more as genjutsu than regular ninjutsu ( which he sucks at from being stupid ) when he tried to learn Shadow clones which requires a single hand seal, it took him less than a day even Jiraiya said that since Rasengan had no hand seal, it was perfect for him

And we all knw that his chakra control was broken by Kyubi

srry I almost lost the point of this lol, so this all surrounds the idean naruto=stupid=easy technique since he learned it but your saying naruto=learns everything=irrelvent.....??? I'm gettin distracted by this.

On topic; 2nd stills reminds to be better until proven otherwise.

 

[spatha]

But we have no idea what they are, so using the example of he had more seals as a counter to Tobirama winning or losing hold no ground. Also as no one has disputed it yet and you and I are having a good discussion, what is your opinion on the section 'The nail in the coffin'. If Tobirama is said to be = to Hashirama than it stands to logic that he wins against Minato. I don't think many people would argue that Minato beats Hashirama.

i dont recall that being said, if im wrong show it and i retract my previous statement, but that doesnt necessarily mean instant win. Hashi could most likely beat minato by spawning flowers for miles and its likely FTG does have some kind of range, a vast one yes, but range, so that flower tech could take him out i bet. However tobirama i doubt could create a several mile wide water wall to encompass minato, meaning he has vastly more maneuverability than against someone like hashi.

 

[USSJ Future Trunks]

why are people jumping on tobirama's ****? we have never seen him even try. oro was making the hokages toy around with sarutobi. all we have is hype and in terms of feats, minato makes tobirama look like a gennin.

 

[Flame Alchemist]

But how do we know Hashirama > Minato? If Minato can escape any battle via FTG how is it that someone kills him?

escaping battle means accepting the lose. why escape if you can win?

 

[kaka96]

Check the <nail in the coffin> section in the original post, and have a look at the manga page.

Says they were the strongest, not that they were equal
Madara was stronger than him no doubt
No ways he's as strong as Hashirama as we've seen in the last chapter

Sorry but I can't take this proof as valid as all

 

[Gatsuuga]

i dont recall that being said, if im wrong show it and i retract my previous statement, but that doesnt necessarily mean instant win. Hashi could most likely beat minato by spawning flowers for miles and its likely FTG does have some kind of range, a vast one yes, but range, so that flower tech could take him out i bet. However tobirama i doubt could create a several mile wide water wall to encompass minato, meaning he has vastly more maneuverability than against someone like hashi.

Have a look at the section <nail in the coffin> in the original post

why are people jumping on tobirama's ****? we have never seen him even try. oro was making the hokages toy around with sarutobi. all we have is hype and in terms of feats, minato makes tobirama look like a gennin.

I don't know Tobirama has some pretty impressive feats.

escaping battle means accepting the lose. why escape if you can win?

You beat me to it haha

Says they were the strongest, not that they were equal
Madara was stronger than him no doubt
No ways he's as strong as Hashirama as we've seen in the last chapter

Sorry but I can't take this proof as valid as all

It say they were both hailed as the strongest shinobi, meaning they were both the heavyweights of their time.

 

[UzumakiNaruto20]

escaping battle means accepting the lose. why escape if you can win?

No escaping just means a draw. If both ninjas are still alive then how could one have lost?

If you can't fight in given conditions the best choice is to leave

Minato ran from Tobi, and then figured out a way to win