IF NOTHING ELSE PLZ READ <HYPE> SECTION
EDIT NOTES:
Points that have been edited are in bold. On revision it could go either way on some points, it depends on your personal opinion. I intentionally left out the culmination of all techniques, so that you the read could decide yourself. I stand by my original post that Tobirama> Minato but it is definitely close
So following the latest chapter there has been many people re-evaluating the order in which they rank the Hokage’s of the Leaf. What I have noticed is that many people consider the nidaime hokage Tobirama to be weaker than Minato. In my opinion this is either a severe underrating of Tobirama or possible overrating of Minato. I think that the 2nd is stronger than Minato and I will explain why.
EDITED:<Hand-to-Hand Combat> (+1 Minato)
From what we have seen, Minato does not rely on his taijutsu much, if at all preferring to instead FTG somewhere and then one shot the enemy. Whilst he would have to be reasonably good at taijutsu (since he is a Kage), I think Tobirama has got him on this one.
EDITED ARGUEMENT: Tobirama was proficient in taijutsu, and had reasonable physical prowess, shown in the edo fight against the 3rd. Whether this is enough to take on Minato with his speed, and reflexes we cannot be sure as we have very little info to go on. Therefore I would award this one to Minato, giving him the benefit of the doubt.
(ORIGINAL ARGUEMENT: THE FOLLOWING ONLY APPLIES TO ANIME, AND TO THAT END A FILLER
Tobirama was know to be proficient in Taijutsu, suggesting he could definetly take minato on. Now of course Minato’s base speed AND REFLEXES would be a serious problem Tobirama also has the Sword of the Thunder God to rely on. This sword could generate powerful electrical currents as well as energy rings that could hold and restrict an enemy’s movement. Finally when it was stolen from konoha, the thief stated with the sword in his possession he was know essentially invincible. Whilst I am aware that thief was beaten shortly after his statement clearly speaks volumes to how effective and powerful tobirama was wielding it.
This coupled with his proficiency in taijutsu, leads me to believe that Tobirama would be more than a match at hand to hand combat as Minato’s movement can be restricted with the sword, leaving an opening for Tobirama, and therefore forcing Minato to use FTG.
EDITED ARGUEMENT: Tobirama was proficient in taijutsu, and had reasonable physical prowess, shown in the edo fight against the 3rd. Whether this is enough to take on Minato with his speed, and reflexes we cannot be sure as we have very little info to go on. Therefore I would award this one to Minato, giving him the benefit of the doubt.
(ORIGINAL ARGUEMENT: THE FOLLOWING ONLY APPLIES TO ANIME, AND TO THAT END A FILLER
Tobirama was know to be proficient in Taijutsu, suggesting he could definetly take minato on. Now of course Minato’s base speed AND REFLEXES would be a serious problem Tobirama also has the Sword of the Thunder God to rely on. This sword could generate powerful electrical currents as well as energy rings that could hold and restrict an enemy’s movement. Finally when it was stolen from konoha, the thief stated with the sword in his possession he was know essentially invincible. Whilst I am aware that thief was beaten shortly after his statement clearly speaks volumes to how effective and powerful tobirama was wielding it.
This coupled with his proficiency in taijutsu, leads me to believe that Tobirama would be more than a match at hand to hand combat as Minato’s movement can be restricted with the sword, leaving an opening for Tobirama, and therefore forcing Minato to use FTG.
EDITED:<Space-time Jutsu> (+1 Each)
Whilst we don’t know much about Tobirama’s Space Time jutsu’s we can draw some conclusions from what Minato said.
Going by the order Minato mentioned them I am inclined to think that Minato’s was slightly better. Also the fact that Minato has a reputation for his space time suggests that he is better at the technique. Nontheless the fact that he mentions Tobirmama’s space time jutsu is evidence that his and Minato’s techniques are comparable. Now even if Minato’s is better we know that this isn’t the be all and end all since Minato beat Tobi, who had a superior Space Time Technique. Therefore based on the info we have I would say they are comparable, but we are info deficient. Therefore it is only fair to call this one a tie. Although I can definitely see reasons to give it to Minato
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Going by the order Minato mentioned them I am inclined to think that Minato’s was slightly better. Also the fact that Minato has a reputation for his space time suggests that he is better at the technique. Nontheless the fact that he mentions Tobirmama’s space time jutsu is evidence that his and Minato’s techniques are comparable. Now even if Minato’s is better we know that this isn’t the be all and end all since Minato beat Tobi, who had a superior Space Time Technique. Therefore based on the info we have I would say they are comparable, but we are info deficient. Therefore it is only fair to call this one a tie. Although I can definitely see reasons to give it to Minato
EDITED:<Genjutsu> (NO POINTS)
CORRECTION-->THE FOLLOWING ONLY COUNTS FOR ANIME. HASHIRAMA WAS THE ONLY ONE TO DO THIS TECHNIQUE IN THE MANGA, WHILST IT WAS PERFORMED BY TOBIRAMA IN THE ANIME
From what we have seen so far Minato does not have any genjutsu. Tobirama on the other hand has shown an A – rank genjutsu. His bringer of darkness technique exerts an hallucinatory effect upon the eyesight, effectively blinding the opponent. No matter how skilled an opponent may be, they are forced to wait helpless in this world of darkness, as this technique allows the user to attack unseen. This is one serious genjutsu, hence why I give the point to Tobirama.
From what we have seen so far Minato does not have any genjutsu. Tobirama on the other hand has shown an A – rank genjutsu. His bringer of darkness technique exerts an hallucinatory effect upon the eyesight, effectively blinding the opponent. No matter how skilled an opponent may be, they are forced to wait helpless in this world of darkness, as this technique allows the user to attack unseen. This is one serious genjutsu, hence why I give the point to Tobirama.
<Sensor abilities> (+1 Each)
Both have shown the same technique, in which they place there finger on the ground and identify enemy ninja. Therefore both can be considered excellent sensor ninja, and thus they tie on this one.
<Fuinjutsu> (+1 Minato)
As far as we know Tobirama doesn’t use sealing techniques, whilst Minato is a master of them. So this one is pretty self explanatory, Minato takes this.
<Ninjutsu> (+1 Tobirama)
Firstly Tobirama was the best water jutsu user that has ever lived. He is able to use high level water element jutsu’s with one hand seal, such as water dragon missile (which usually requires 44).
Furthermore he can use these high level techniques without an external source of water. Therefore such high level techniques can be performed very quickly. Now Minato’s advantage is that he uses FTG, but the 2nd’s Water encampment Wall is a great counter to this technique. No marked kunai near the opponent takes away Minato’s major advantage.
Minato on the other hand has only shown rasengan. I don’t think it takes a genius to figure out that Tobirama’s use of water techniques is greater than Minato learning the rasengan.
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Furthermore he can use these high level techniques without an external source of water. Therefore such high level techniques can be performed very quickly. Now Minato’s advantage is that he uses FTG, but the 2nd’s Water encampment Wall is a great counter to this technique. No marked kunai near the opponent takes away Minato’s major advantage.
Minato on the other hand has only shown rasengan. I don’t think it takes a genius to figure out that Tobirama’s use of water techniques is greater than Minato learning the rasengan.
<Summons> (+1 Tobirama)
Minato has shown that he has the contract for toads, even able to summon the toad boss gamabunta. Now don’t get me wrong this is pretty awesome, since not everyone can summon the contract boss, but an animal summon doesn’t compare to Edo tensei.
Now many people suggest that he didn’t master it but her was obviously proficient enough in the technique for multiple kage to instantly recognise the technique. Meaning he used it on the battlefield and was proficient at it. Furthermore when they were summoned none of the kage commented/ or were surprised by the scale of the technique suggesting that 4 edo summons at once was not out of the question for Tobirama. Even without 4 summons, summoning one or two would put tobirama at a major advantage. Who wouldn’t want an unkillable bodyguard watching your back or occupying your oponnents summon.
Now many people suggest that he didn’t master it but her was obviously proficient enough in the technique for multiple kage to instantly recognise the technique. Meaning he used it on the battlefield and was proficient at it. Furthermore when they were summoned none of the kage commented/ or were surprised by the scale of the technique suggesting that 4 edo summons at once was not out of the question for Tobirama. Even without 4 summons, summoning one or two would put tobirama at a major advantage. Who wouldn’t want an unkillable bodyguard watching your back or occupying your oponnents summon.
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Therefore at the moment I have suggested a way for Tobirama to take away or counter FTG, can match him in hand to hand combat and can gain an advantage through his Impure world resurrection, although I see Minato’s seals as a potential problem.
EDITED:<HYPE> + 1 TOBIRAMA
Finally based on the latest chapter we conclude that either Hashirama is the strongest or a close second to Prime Sarutobi. Regardless everyone is aware of the fact that Hashirama is a BEAST. He singlehandedly beat EMS Madara + Kurama, tamed many tailed beasts and uses possibly the strongest KG wood release. Now its not hard to see in the Narutoverse these are massive feats. But most of all he was compared to the sage of six paths himself. Now who was said to be Hashirama’s equal, his brother Tobirama
I honestly don't think Minatos hype can stand against this statement
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I honestly don't think Minatos hype can stand against this statement
And that is why I say that Tobirama (5 points) is stronger than Minato (4 points), comments and opinions? Please don’t flame, and fanboys are welcome to discuss as long as you can actually back your statements up. I want a good discussion please. For anyone that is going to say he got taken out by 20 fodder ninja read the next section.
<Misconception about Tobirama’s death>
Many believe that Tobirama was killed by fodder ninja, this is entirely untrue.
From this page it is obvious that these were not fodder ninja, they were 20 elite bounty hunters form the Kinkaku force. These ninja were deemed to powerful to take on 7 vs 20. Knowing that at least some of the younger members on his team would die he volunteered to solo them whilst the others escaped. Did he hold his ground? Definitely, all of the members from the escaping team made it out alive didn’t they? To stand your ground 1 vs 20 against elite ninja does not make him weak, in fact it seems quite the opposite. Finally but probably the most important bit, he was a decoy he didn't want to escape, otherwise the bounty hunters would go an take out Hiruzen and the others
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From this page it is obvious that these were not fodder ninja, they were 20 elite bounty hunters form the Kinkaku force. These ninja were deemed to powerful to take on 7 vs 20. Knowing that at least some of the younger members on his team would die he volunteered to solo them whilst the others escaped. Did he hold his ground? Definitely, all of the members from the escaping team made it out alive didn’t they? To stand your ground 1 vs 20 against elite ninja does not make him weak, in fact it seems quite the opposite. Finally but probably the most important bit, he was a decoy he didn't want to escape, otherwise the bounty hunters would go an take out Hiruzen and the others
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