Kakashi VS Sasuke (without sharingan)
- Thread starter Mante
- Start date
Governor123
Member
U R SOOOOOO IGNORANT @DEVILISHCHILD...
First
We the viewers are blinded by kishi to the amount of technique kakashi was capable of using (at the age of 13), and let's not forget he was a jonin at that age,
Second
Kakashi is capable of opening 4gates,(do some research b4 u bash other users on this base.
Third
Knowledge is knowledge it will b useful during fights, kakashi at 13 was made responsible for s rank missions and responsible for rin & obito bcoz of the experiences he had. Can u imagine how much more he has gained in his yrs?
He has even made a general in the 4th shin war bcoz of that same experience that u undermined.
Fourth
Don't be such a fanboy!
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Forget Me Not
Active member
Current Sasuke is able to use Chidori without the use of Sharingan, whereas Kakashi isn't. Kakashi also required Obito's sharingan to complete the technique in the first place. All in all, as of now Sasuke's lightning release is stronger than the Kakashi's.
@Topic; If you mean both mutually without sharingan and fighting with base power I'd have to go with Sasuke. Uchiha bloodline generally enhances his chakra. And on top of this Sasuke possesses in-depth fire style mastery, top-tier lightning nature prowess, and exclusively Kirin. Otherwise (solely Sasuke without the sharingan), I'd have to go with Kakashi with medium-high difficulty.
Forget Me Not
Active member
No, I didn't misunderstand any given points. Your point was Kakashi was able to use the chidori without the sharingan as opposed to Sasuke not being able to. That wasn't valid. He has to use the sharingan in order to initialize chidori. The sharingan was an essential piece necessary to complete the chidori from the get-go. Regardless, as it stands, Sasuke's superior to Kakashi in terms of lightning-style.
But if I did happen to miss any points, feel free the enlighten me.
Edit: Oh, I think I've got you. You mean Kakashi had the speed the use chidori and Sasuke had to use sharingan to acquire that speed? Yes, originally. However, that's hardly relevant here considering we're talking about present Sasuke and Kakashi. Again, currently Sasuke's lightning style roughly if not exponentially surpasses his. Which may be a point you're missing.
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The point was purely speed
Kakashi had the speed need for an attack such as chidori to be of any use in combat as stated by Minato
Kakashi had Sasuke copy Lee's Taijutsu to train with it and develop that tremendous speed needed for it
Since we can't know how their development would have went, we have to compare their skill right before they got it aka 13yo
Neither showed superior skill in Ninjutsu or Genjutsu so it comes to Taijutsu , where Kakashi showed superior skills
Of course, the results are just assumptions but the facts are facts
Forget Me Not
Active member
See above (my previous post). I follow you.
Also, he basis of your arguments seem to be aspects of the past. My points still stand to beg to differ. I also thought I'd point out that this is the present we're talking about. Sasuke has improved substantially since then. The past isn't a very relevant factor here just for the record.
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The issue is there, Mante isn't specifying if this is if they never had sharingan or if they lost it.
I already said that Kakashi would likely loose if it was just lost
But if it's completely taken away from their life, Kakashi was much more of a genius without it than Sasuke was.
Also, Except for Kirin , wich he wouldn't be able to use, Sasuke has shown no lighting style that truly surpasses Kakashi's. That Lightning runner beast and Raiden are some serious crap, and since you don't go straight to your opponent, you don't need Sharingan to see a last second counter
Then Again, Sasuke has Nagashi , the spear and the senbons. That's why I wanted to keep out of ninjutsu , it's hard to know what really needs sharingan and what does not
Forget Me Not
Active member
The general purpose of versus threads like this is to put the specified matching in a hypothetical perspective. Meaning, it'd be assuming the given exceptions (sharingan here for instance) is an exclusion rather than something so vague as never possessing it in the first place. Otherwise that'd practically distort this entire thread (e.g., Kakashi wouldn't be able to use chidori nor would he be able to eventually teach Sasuke the technique).
Basically put, sharingan is simply exempt from this lineup.
As for lightning style, I beg to differ. Yeah, they both have pretty formidable lightning style techniques. But generally speaking, Sasuke's more adept in terms of this regardless of whether the difference is small or great. Same with genjutsu. The only arguable aspect of this is taijutsu whereas they're roughly rivaled in. Though then again, I wouldn't say Kakashi could best Sasuke in raw taijutsu/speed considering Sasuke's current overall speed & taijutsu is arguably superior to that of his.
Under no circumstances (unless otherwise specified) could you exclude detail from the match (which means we'd have to include genjutsu/taijutsu/ninjutsu and all other relevant attributes of the characters in general [meaning you'd have to count ninjutsu]). And yeah, if I recall correctly you did said your reasoning was because it wasn't specified by the OP. So I don't particularly blame you or anything. I'm just clarifying.
Oh and also, I'd like to reiterate my original post since we went a bit off-topic to concede my original points:
Forget Me Not said:
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I know all that, but sometime people do make thread about who they would have became if they never had this or that or if they had this or that. So in my mind, the possibility that it was removed from their life was never ruled out ya know. But as I've said, if it's simply blocked for the fight, Sasuke takes this
I didn't "exclude" I put them aside and classified them as equal as we have no idea what their level in them they are without sharingan
kotoamatsukami
Active member
who took control of the nine-tailed fox an set it free thats right tobi did it was his pet an his power tobi wins..good list take minato off the list he to weak..yea an with his sharigan he beats every body on that list but not tobi i think.
curse mark is part of sasuke's power so wat u saying? uchihas always have sharingan activated u kno that.
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You do realize that this thread is about him without Sharingan?
And that this was a reply to a comment saying that even without Sharingan nobody would own him?
Tobi used genjutsu on Kyubi, not on Minato
You clearly are a Minato hater so for the sake of not making this even more of a mess, lets count him out
Doesn't change the fact that Tobi ran away and that's why he's alive
Forget Me Not
Active member
That's essentially excluding those feats. J/s.
And yeah, I understand your point. I'm simply saying that this is in fact my point being and voicing my opinion on the matter at hand.
Also, I made a few minor modifications to my previous post to be more elaborate in terms of this situation.
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Also don't forget when we saw kakashi first use the lightning blade against Zabuza, Kakashi said that was the only jutsu he had in his arsenal that he DID NOT copy with the sharingan. I honestly think Kakashi is the creator of that jutsu, but I am not certain.
You have no right of expressing your opinion O_O just kidding
Rep for actually giving a debate unlike the other two , just spamming the same thing over and over hopping I don't realize they only have 1 argument, wich barely stands :|
kotoamatsukami
Active member
he would hav never died in the first place tobi cant be killed by physical attack if he can it will take a while..tobi would have 1 in the long run anyway in the end he stil wins an is now even stronger than minat by a land slide...............bac to subject i said it was a good list....wat i really said was oro made him jonin level even without sharingan stop... then nobody can rape a uchiha at sasuke's level.
MangekyouJ
Active member
You must be registered for see links
Minato have looked into the eyes of the sharingan a many of times and (correct me if I'm wrong cuz maybe I'm just assuming) Tobi has yet to trap him in a genjutsu. Minato died sealing the Nine-Tails....The reason Tobi is here is unknown to us...he says to start war, bring peace for the Moons' Eye Plan....we don't know...only we can do is wait to see...
Kaka96 told you the reason why he's still alive, he retreated from battle with Minato because he was wounded and gotten the Fox wrestled from him in one move. If you retreat from a battle what does that make you?? Especially when you were the one that called him out as his opponent.....yes if you flee from a battle that you intiated, you would be the loser...
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MangekyouJ
Active member
Just cuz he's uchiha doesn't make u better than anyone...Aburame clansmen could beat the Uchiha...