2nd hokage the best?

-The Agent-

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Lol everyone is going for hashirama's dna because its a 2 in one package....You get his kekke genkai + senju dna... While if you just took any other senju (ie tobirama , tsunade) you just get senju dna......Taking hashiramas is the obvious choice....Kill two birds with one stone..... And his kekke genkai was feared, but i'm just saying that didn't necessarily mean he was stronger, Yes i know he was the strongest senju, but still you made it sound like just because he had it he could beat him

And lol, if kakashi someone praised for his speed throughout the manga, said sussano arrow was too fast to dodge, and danzo couldn't make a hanseal , Mei dies by 1 sussanno arrow
Lol thank you for proving my point. His 2 in one package makes him stronger than his brother, and in this case how did this not make him the strongest senju? The most feared and sought after keke genkai of all time? (other than the sharingan). Yes in this case just because he has this gives him the edge of any other senju, which is why he was their leader, and why he was the strongest.

Mei dies by a Susanoo arrow? Lol the fight is that easy? You forgot how Mei was able to melt his susano'o as well as Madara's. Please note that Madara's is a hell of a lot stronger than Sasuke's.
 

Owarij

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Lol thank you for proving my point. His 2 in one package makes him stronger than his brother, and in this case how did this not make him the strongest senju? The most feared and sought after keke genkai of all time? (other than the sharingan). Yes in this case just because he has this gives him the edge of any other senju, which is why he was their leader, and why he was the strongest.

Mei dies by a Susanoo arrow? Lol the fight is that easy? You forgot how Mei was able to melt his susano'o as well as Madara's. Please note that Madara's is a hell of a lot stronger than Sasuke's.

Yes the fight will be that easy... Just like the fight with kakashi would have been over in 1 sussano if he didn't have kamui

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And it took a while to melt sasuke's incomplete sussanno.. what in the WORLD could she do with a arrow flying at her at that speed, and No she can't dodge it, as said by danzo and kakashi , no she can't make hanseals.....

And madara's what is stronger than sasuke's?

Madara doesn't have sussano bow.... Nor does itachi....
 

-The Agent-

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Yes the fight will be that easy... Just like the fight with kakashi would have been over in 1 sussano if he didn't have kamui

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And it took a while to melt sasuke's incomplete sussanno.. what in the WORLD could she do with a arrow flying at her at that speed, and No she can't dodge it, as said by danzo and kakashi , no she can't make hanseals.....

And madara's what is stronger than sasuke's?

Madara doesn't have sussano bow.... Nor does itachi....
Lol Whatever you say man. To be honest it's pointless going back and forth about a battle we already saw. Mei was about to kill Sasuke if it wasn't for zetsu.

Anyways don't you see the Irony. Madara and Itachi's Susano'o are both stronger than Sasuke's.
 

siyo

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LOL? how do you know his s/t was worse? don't talk bullshit.... Minato just said Tobi's s/t was greater than his and the 2nds..... he categorized all 3 of them , meaning he was talking about really skilled s/t users.....He never said tobirama's was worst than his... you have no idea how his works....


You people are mistaking something.....What oro did to edo, was invent the futa tags,that controlled the persons will....Meaning he could control people that wouldn't normally fight for him......Tobirama most likely revived fellow clan mates who he didn't need to control... they would fight for thereselves... Thus fight at full capabilities...


Kisame rivals his water techniques, and you could even argue the case that Kisame surpassed him in that area.
When kisame can make a water jutsu with no water source, Sure
When kisame can do a water jutsu that requires 44 handseals, In 1 sure
You're speculating, while i'm speaking solely facts.

1)his edo was surpassed.How? Who cares....
2)His s/t was worse than madara and it is implied that minato's better(the very thing that makes him elite).Not saying that Tobirama's version isn't strong.
3)When tobirama can make a water dome, then we can talk.


Hiruzen isn't surviving 20 jounin ninja
4th raikage sure
Onoki No
Hashirama no
muu no
mizukage no
gaara in a desert sure, otherwise no


lol, what do you mean no? One giant dust jutsu and they are all gone, and the god of shinobi should be able handle twenty elite bounty hunters. Anyhow,this is speculation so there's no right or wrong since we haven't seen the faces of the attackers.

btw i forgot these:

Minato
Deidara
Sasori
Orochimaru/kabuto
Jiraiya in SM.
 
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HBKJames

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Not that I have a WHOLE lot to go off of with Tobirama Senju...my hokage ranking would look like
1) Hashirama Senju
2) Minato
3) Hiruzen Sarutobi
4) Tobirama Senju
5) Tsunade

So that basically says about where I place Tobirama...in my eyes not in the top 3
 

siyo

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lmao sasori can take 20 elite shinobi at one time, xD , no use arguing when you believe shit like that
Stop being ignorant and stop assuming. Sasori solo’d a village by himself and he’s is near indestructible; his poisons are so deadly that only the best medic in the world can cure them(not to mention all his puppets).

And please tell where it says that they are on Kakashi’s/Darui's level? :confused: All I can read is that they are elite when it comes to collecting money for catching their pray (bounty hunters). There’s a reason they aren’t recognized by name and no village, realistically, would have 20 elite jounins. Please name 20 - you can pick from any village :rolleyes:

Anbu is elite and we have seen them being destroyed throughout this series.
 

NLee

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i think the 2n probably the best hokage (i know about the 1st) but they where brothers and wouldn't kill each other like uchiha clan would but i think the 2nd would beat the 1st. he has edo can summon plp to help and has time and space jutsue plus his the best water user ever what u think and might of had more forbidden:cool: jutsue like the edo we don't know about
Tobirama's version of Edo Tensei was not complete, so don't even try or think to compare it to Kabuto's or even Orochimaru's.

As far as elemental techniques go Hashirama would have had the advantage over Tobirama. Hashirama had Mokuton techniques, which means he had Water and Earth. Earth beats Water so that alone puts Tobirama at bad odds. We don't know what other element Tobirama had so we can't go any further here.

Tobirama had Time-Space techniques but we don't know how proficient he was at using them. All we know is what Minato said. Minato stated that Tobi could use Time-Space techniques better than he or Tobirama could:

What does that mean exactly? I don't know. But it certainly puts a limit to his Time-Space techniques


From these I still say Tobirama couldn't beat Hashirama. If Tobirama had other special techniques we don't know about them.
 

USSJ Future Trunks

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First Hokage is better than his brother that's why he was the one who had to fight Madara and beat him. He was elected first Hokage for a reason. He was the leader of the Senju clan for a reason. Tobirama just created IWR but he didn't improve or perfect it like Orochimaru and Kabuto has done.
first hokage died so tobirama had ample time to train and surpass him before his own death. first hokage was elected because of his bijuu control and perhaps hes the leader cos tobirama is like jiraiya and didnt want the job. tobirama has teleporting too which negates mokuton.

he's average in my books
-_- created edo tensei, survived fighting kinkaku and ginkaku at once, knows space time ninjutsu, created the uchiha police force, passed on the will of fire to sarutobi, taught sarutobi how to fight etc.

If Tobirama was stronger he would have fought Madara instead of Hashirama
not really. if hashirama insisted on dealing with him alongside mito then theres nothing tobi can do.

even oro's 'completed' version was crap
based on what exactly?

People would be going after his DNA instead of trying to collect Hashirama's DNA.
no, they are going after mokuton and since hashirama had the rikudo body that the younger brother had, he was perfect. tobirama was perhaps too hard to obtain or just not the better option due to no mokuton.

Tobirama died to bounty hunters.....
we dont know how and we know those bounty hunters are pseudo jinchurikis and wiped out a whole division.

His S/T jutsu was worse than both madara’s and minato’s,
nowhere is that ever established. minato said tobi's S/T is better than both tobiramas and his own. but not necessarily faster

Oro’s and kabuto’s versions were again much better.
how do you know how much better they were? they could only be marginally better.

1)Third raikage
2)Prime hiruzen
3)4th raikage
4)Onoki
5)Hashirama
6)Muu
7)2nd mizukage
8) arguably gaara
prime hiruzen is purely hype and his best jutsu kills himself. 4th raikage could probably lose. he was scared of the kin gin bros. hashirama could maybe. muu maybe but he lost to mizukage. gaara when not in a desert is weak.

The most feared and sought after keke genkai of all time?
is sharingan, not mokuton.

One giant dust jutsu and they are all gone,
then how come naruto clone and gaara didnt die that way?

the god of shinobi should be able handle twenty elite bounty hunters.
based on?
Sasori solo’d a village by himself
a village of fodders, not a team of elite kumo bounty hunters led by kinkaku, a pseudo jin and rikudo descendent.

All I can read is that they are elite when it comes to collecting money for catching their pray (bounty hunters). There’s a reason they aren’t recognized by name and no village, realistically, would have 20 elite jounins. Please name 20 - you can pick from any village
20 elites who were strong enough to ensure death for a hokage, and his team of elite jounins like danzo and hiruzen. they all knew they were trapped and outnumbered, and tobirama was strong enough to hold them all off. this was like 20 kakashis, not 20 asumas. and look at their leader, kinkaku. kage level.

Tobirama's version of Edo Tensei was not complete, so don't even try or think to compare it to Kabuto's or even Orochimaru's.
we dont know what improvements kabuto made to oros version and vice versa. you are talking shit.

Tobirama had Time-Space techniques but we don't know how proficient he was at using them
very proficient. if he sucked at it, minato would have said "tobi is better than me" but he didnt. he took the time to say beter than both me and the second hokage.
 

Minator93

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He isn't the strongest , he's madara's level... why?


Izuna was said to be = Madara, but Madara was older, so became the clan head , izuna became the 2nd head...but both of them were just equally strong

If uchiha and senju clashed, Hashirama would face Madara, and izuna face tobirama, To hold his own against him means he could also against Madara, which means he's up there in fighting capabilities...
Exactly...

Plus the Space/Time Nin has its advantages.
 

Minator93

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Tobirama could've survived that Kinkaku unit any day because he had the Space/Time Nin...but he had to make sure that there was time for the others to escape..

One More thing Sharingan isn't the most sought after KK Gen...its actually the wood-style...because the ones who posses the sharingan always wanted Wood plus everyone who knew Hashirama knew the real power of the wood style.
 

USSJ Future Trunks

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because the ones who posses the sharingan always wanted Wood plus everyone who knew Hashirama knew the real power of the wood style.
everyone wants sharingan and byakugan, especially foriegn ninjas but no one except people obsessed with becoming the new sage of six paths gives two shits about mokuton. no one tried to kidnap yamato on all their missions till kabuto in the war.
 
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