Tobi says, "Let's Collaborate!"

[opt4shenanigans]

OK, it seems like everyone has an opinion who Tobi may be. This gave me an idea for a community project. I'm going to attempt to consolidate everyone's argument into a single post with a poll attached. The topic will be entitled, "Community Consensus on the Identity of Tobi".

I will be extensive. I will be gathering loads of evidence directly from the manga. I am also taking snippets from topics already made. I will take a completely objective stance and consider ALL ARGUMENTS. However, I will only consider logical claims. If you have any evidence that you would like for me to include, please post it below (include links). Please leave concise statements. Also, utilize spoilers to save space. Here are the candidates (in no particular order):

- Elder Son
- Izuna Uchiha
- Kagami Uchiha
- Zetsu Clone of Uchiha Madara
- Obtio (completely transparent)

If you want me to consider another character, just pm me and I'll edit the list.

ninja edit: It is going to be extremely clean and easy to read. Including reasons for and against each candidate.

 

[clone101]

Re: Lets Collaborate

i actually believe that tobi is madara. i think that he learned how to split himself from muu and did so. i thought this ever since muu split in two and then seeing him with old man kage in this past chapter. it shows they worked together in the past. he kept living my science and stuff like oro.

 

[opt4shenanigans]

Re: Lets Collaborate

Imo, just leave Obito out of it. You don't need to listen to people who still believe in that happening. Obito wasn't even born when Madara died.

I am only considering hard evidence. Nothing circumstantial. So, the sections for Obito or Kagami will probably be short. On a side-note, I will also provide a profile of the Masked Man's ideology, actions, relationships, etc.

 

[Gatsndshanks]

Re: Lets Collaborate

Izuna.

Tobi says that the rinnegan is his, right? but Madara was shown to have a rinnegan shortly before his death... This concludes that Nagato was given Madara's Rinnegan (because Nagato never had the sharingan, MS or EMS); however, the eyes were never originally madara's they were Izuna's (to unlock the EMS) and rightfully they belong to him and thus answer's why Tobi took back the Rinnegan that he said was his.

 

[opt4shenanigans]

Re: Lets Collaborate

@ clone101 & Gatsndshanks

Thank you for your input. There's merit in your ideas. Here's an additional example of a solid/logical claim that I can include:

Response to Kagami claim

The fact that nothing notable about him has been said ever by any character. Other theories in which the elder son and Izuna are Tobi have more textual evidence supporting them. Hell, Izuna could've been revived by Madara once he obtained the Rinnegan. It's more possible than a character we've heard nothing about other being Tobi.

Here's a theory: Izuna was revived by Madara after he obtained the Rinnegan. The brothers formulate a plan to get vengeance. At some point, Madara dies, leaving Izuna to follow through with the plan on his own, adopting his brother's name due to the amount of fame. To combat age, injury, or perhaps to substitute a part of his body that decayed before Madara could revive him, Izuna replaces parts of his body with Zetsu goo. Izuna has the motive to be Tobi, he has the background and knowledge of history to back up what Tobi has said, and, although it's probably more coincidental, Tobi is listed as 175cm, 59.9kg while Izuna is listed at 174.8cm and 59.9kg.

Izuna fits, more so than Kagami. I'm not implying that Tobi is Izuna, I just think it would be more likely than Kagami. To suddenly reveal that Kagami is Tobi would seem like a huge ass-pull on Kishi's part.

(argument includes reasons for and against)

 

[opt4shenanigans]

I'm going to bump this so people refrain from making new Tobi threads. Just post your ideas here.

 

[Acnologia..]

I'm going to bump this so people refrain from making new Tobi threads. Just post your ideas here.

True there are to many Tobi threads even the mods created a place to post the theorys.

 

[clone101]

true story.. everyone should just put all ideas in one spot and maybe we can come up with a conclusion to this.

 

[opt4shenanigans]

Here's an additional example of a respectful claim that refutes a particular theory:

The Masked Man utilizes Space–Time Ninjutsu. Tobi is almost completely impervious to damage. When struck, attacks phrase right through him. The newly summoned Madara or the original does not have this technique in his move-set. Why would a clone of Madara utilize entirely different techniques and tactics? This is a strong contradiction.

Short, sweet and to the point.

I'm actually pretty disappointed in the response so far. I know everyone has ideas ...

 

[clone101]

Here's an additional example of a respectful claim that refutes a particular theory:

The Masked Man utilizes Space–Time Ninjutsu. Tobi is almost completely impervious to damage. When struck, attacks phrase right through him. The newly summoned Madara or the original does not have this technique in his move-set. Why would a clone of Madara utilize entirely different techniques and tactics? This is a strong contradiction.

Short, sweet and to the point.

I'm actually pretty disappointed in the response so far. I know everyone has ideas ...

true but look at muu when her split up his second half cant do his dust tech anymore. he no longer has the same jutsus. tobi has been around awhile its possible that he continued to train and experiment. could have picked it up

 

[Tartarus]

I'm going with Kagami or Obito. Kagami was the student of TOBIrama, who developed space-time jutsu, and he is around the same age as Danzo and Hiruzen. Him and Danzo were also mysteriously missing from Hiruzen's team during the kyubi attack. I also found it weird that he said "long time no see Danzo, since the Uchiha massacre." This seems to indicate he knows Danzo. He would also been alive during the time of Madara, he could have known him. Obito I'm still open minded about due to hints. Obito and Tobi are just the kanji reversed and letters swapped. Obito's crushed part of his body is same side as Tobi's zetsu half. He also has similar space time jutsu as kakashi's MS on the opposite side.

 

[opt4shenanigans]

true but look at muu when her split up his second half cant do his dust tech anymore. he no longer has the same jutsus. tobi has been around awhile its possible that he continued to train and experiment. could have picked it up

haha, I was actually referencing the Zetsu Clone Theory. hmm, I thought muu's technique was highly unique. I have a hard time believing that Uchiha Madara used it to clone himself. It does open the possibility. That's a bit of a reach, but I'll keep it in mind.

 

[opt4shenanigans]

Obito and Tobi are just the kanji reversed and letters swapped. Obito's crushed part of his body is same side as Tobi's zetsu half. He also has similar space time jutsu as kakashi's MS on the opposite side.

Wow, that's the first Tobi related evidence that I actually consider legitimate. I'll take note.

 

[Tartarus]

Wow, that's the first Tobi related evidence that I actually consider legitimate. I'll take note.

lol I thought you would notice the Kagami evidence first, I put way more work into his evidence.
PS: I just added some new evidence when I edited my comment for Kagami.

 

[opt4shenanigans]

I'm going with Kagami or Obito. Kagami was the student of TOBIrama, who developed space-time jutsu, and he is around the same age as Danzo and Hiruzen. Him and Danzo were also mysteriously missing from Hiruzen's team during the kyubi attack. I also found it weird that he said "long time no see Danzo, since the Uchiha massacre."

Ok, so this would be an example of circumstantial evidence. Just because you didn't see them in the panels of the manga, does not mean that they were missing. For all we know, Kagami could have been deceased/not in the village. Danzo, Itachi and Tobi all coordinated the Uchiha massacre. Lastly, we have no idea how old the Masked Man is.

 

[Tartarus]

Ok, so this would be an example of circumstantial evidence. Just because you didn't see them in the panels of the manga, does not mean that they were missing. For all we know, Kagami could have been deceased/not in the village. Danzo, Itachi and Tobi all coordinated the Uchiha massacre. Lastly, we have no idea how old the Masked Man is.

I guess you could call it circumstantial but it still does seem suspicious. Why would Kishi have a panel showing all of Hiruzen's squad but have those two missing from it? At least that's the way I see it, it seems like one of those subtle hints a writer gives.

 

[opt4shenanigans]

I've made significant progress on the thread since yesterday. Still waiting for more ideas regarding Kagami and the Zetsu Clone Theory.

 

[MinatoIsBestHokage]

I'm going with Kagami or Obito. Kagami was the student of TOBIrama, who developed space-time jutsu, and he is around the same age as Danzo and Hiruzen. Him and Danzo were also mysteriously missing from Hiruzen's team during the kyubi attack. I also found it weird that he said "long time no see Danzo, since the Uchiha massacre." This seems to indicate he knows Danzo. He would also been alive during the time of Madara, he could have known him. Obito I'm still open minded about due to hints. Obito and Tobi are just the kanji reversed and letters swapped. Obito's crushed part of his body is same side as Tobi's zetsu half. He also has similar space time jutsu as kakashi's MS on the opposite side.

Dude Kagami was NOT A STUDENT OF TOBIRAMA, Tobirama had his own team just like any other Jonin did and it consisted of the 2 Konoha Elders who are still alive and Sarutobi, the 3rd Hokage. Just because Kagami was in the same squad as Tobirama does not make him his student. Kakashi fought Hidan and Kakazu with Shikimaru, Choji, Ino and Naruto came with Yamato at the end. Does that make Ino, Choji and Shikimaru Kakashi's Students? No, because we know they were trained as a team under Asuma. It has also been stated that Tobi met Itachi and Danzo around the same time. And your Obito theory is very weak and you said Obito's crushed side is the same as Tobi's Zetsu half? So Zetsu found Obito and resurrected that half? No, no and no. Watch Kakashi Gaiden again. HIS ENTIRE BODY WAS CRUSHED. Originally his one side got crushed and than Kakashi grabs Rin out of there because THE WHOLE CAVE COLLAPSES, so its safe to say Obito's entire body was crushed and even the episode pretty much shows that because Obito has his last words and than the whole cave collapses on him. Did Zetsu somehow come to his aid, teach him the S/T Jutsu Tobi has and make a clone of the side that was still not crushed in less than 5-10 seconds?

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[opt4shenanigans]

^ Be nice. Try to stay constructive and forward the conversation. Instead of only challenging other ideas, bring something new to the table.

 

[MinatoIsBestHokage]

^ Be nice. Try to stay constructive and forward the conversation. Instead of only challenging other ideas, bring something new to the table.

It was not meant to be mean and I did forward the conversation, someone can challenge what I wrote as well. If you think because you put your thread title as "Let's Collaborate" everyone is going to get together and everyone on this board is going to agree on who Tobi is or whatever the goal of this thread is, then you are very naive. And I am not saying this to be mean and I don't flame theories even if I don't agree with them, I just simply stated a counter-argument to shyarkugan's theory. If the theory is at least backed up by proof and well speculated, thought-out and understandable than I am willing to give anyone credit even if I don't agree with it like I said. If you look at every great Tobi thread/theory on this board, everyone gets argumentative and tries to prove another person wrong, etc... That's the point of having an opinion. If you think all the intelligent members on this board are going to come collaborate and have a jolly old time than I don't know what to tell you man and I am not being pessimistic that is just what happens when people don't agree. People are either nice about it or flame the other person for lack of proof, not agreeing with them, not seeing it their war, etc...

I will state it again, I am not trying to be mean nor was I trying to hate on anyone but if you are gonna allow weak theories (theories based on false information, no manga to back it up, etc...) to continue on this thread it is going to be taken over by noob theories. And I will also state again that I have seen people make great Fugaku arguments, Izuna arguments, Madara arguments, Elder Son Arguments, etc... and if they have imagination, great depth, and are able to site Manga to at least back up their theory or use/twist the words in the Manga to the advantage of their theory than I am very open to it/that/the theory.

Tobi is the 2nd Hokage because Tobi and Tobirama sound alike, also they both use S/T Ninjutsu, also they both wore clothes, had hair and had chakra.