DISCLAIMER : This topic does not belong to me. The original creators are opt4shenanigans and EternalMangekyouRinnegan. All credits to them
So, the thing with all these Tobi theories is that they have become obsolete with the recent manga chapters but people still cling to them. I have some thoughts on this myself but this is NOT a theory. I don't have any solid proof. It's merely a hypothesis based on fragmented evidence. Something to think about and perhaps, make a decent theory out of later. The following are both connections between the elder son of the Sage of the Six Paths and Tobi, and reasons why the elder son could be Tobi:
The Masked Man - Character & Abilities
-I'll start with this
Sharingans true power… My power ... Uchiha Madara's power..
-The Masked Man adamantly believes in peace through might/power
- He is like Madara, yet he’s not Madara
- OBJECTION! He lies all the time about his true intentions
- “Who on earth are you?” This page … mind = blown
Comment: Everything on it is pure gold. We also can assume that it is completely true because Konan is moments from dying. Since she pushed The Masked Man to his limits, he rewards her with an honest demeanor. He states, "I am Uchiha Madara with the power of Senju Hashirama!" "I am the ONLY one who could be the second Sage of Six paths” “He who sees the future is the victor!” How can he be Uchiha Madara with the power of Senju Hashirama? I’ll let you interpret that for a sec. Remember, he uses his alter ego of Madara to express his actual sentiments.
- The Elder son may still be alive
- Masked Man's immortality
I wish we knew more about his pocket dimension. It could be a clue to his immortality. If Torune and Fu didn't die in there after several weeks, this means that time is nonexistant in that dimension. He can fully manipulate the rules of time and space in his pocket dimension - similar to Itachi's Tsukuyomi gen jutsu.
- Hides his identity
- Everyone recognized the same face that they thought was Uchiha Madara
- His techniques are beyond anything we have seen in manga!
- The Rinnegan was his before?
- The Masked Man is, “a former shell of himself”
- He has extensive knowledge of the original Sage of the Six Paths and his two sons
- The Masked Man desires to become the Juubi Jinchuurikki ... why?
The Legacy of Sage of the Six Paths - The Ultimate Doujutsu
- The intertwined fate between the two bloodlines Senju vs Uchiha
Comment: The fact is, since that day he and his descendants always took the role of being inferior to Senju.
- Unmentioned Doujutsu!
Sage, along with the Rinnegan, was introduced before his sons :
This can only mean that Uchiha clan's ancestor swirly doujutsu is not a mistake or an interpretation of the manga! It was drawn by Kishimoto with intention! The Elder son's eyes are derived from the Rinnegan. It is similar, but slightly different.
- That swirl in the Elder son's eyes looks awfully simular to Tobi's warp technique
- WAIT IS THERE A MOTIF IN NARUTO?
- More unrelated/interesting thoughts about the character of Orochimaru
- Why does everyone want this power?
Disproving Other Theories regarding the Identity of Tobi
- Honestly who could be dark, evil and powerful enough to fill Tobi's spot? Tobi = Kishimoto
- The personalities of Madara and the Masked Man do not match
- Let’s not make assumptions based on hair
-The Masked Man is not a Zetsu clone
-The Masked Man is not Shisui
-The Masked Man is not Kagami
-The Masked Man is not Izuna
- The Masked Man is not Obito
The Kyuubi Incident
- Masked Man’s sudden attack on the Leaf Village
Room for Speculation?!
- Far fetched Idea
- Wait a sec? Can it get even more far fetched?
- Analysis of Madara's choice of words in ch. 560
This is the first and last "tobi thread" I make. I found it interesting so thought I could share it with you
So, the thing with all these Tobi theories is that they have become obsolete with the recent manga chapters but people still cling to them. I have some thoughts on this myself but this is NOT a theory. I don't have any solid proof. It's merely a hypothesis based on fragmented evidence. Something to think about and perhaps, make a decent theory out of later. The following are both connections between the elder son of the Sage of the Six Paths and Tobi, and reasons why the elder son could be Tobi:
The Masked Man - Character & Abilities
-I'll start with this
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Sharingans true power… My power ... Uchiha Madara's power..
Comment: See how he plays it out? He put's himself before Uchiha Madara. If he was Madara, he would have said, "the Power of Uchiha Madara,” b/c villains usually speak in the 3rd person. Or simply "My power," in the first person. Madara was the only ninja in the history that could achieve the same power of the Elder Son. He had both Uchiha blood and high level Sharingan. Maybe this is why Tobi often refers to himself as Madara. They had the same story, fate and outcome.
Comment: For example, the moon's eye plan he detailed. This page highlights the different ideologies shared by the two brothers.
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Comment: He talks about Madara's fight versus Hashirama as if it was his own. Perhaps, he is mirroring it to his fight with his younger brother?
He also abhors the leaf and all of their champions (Ex. 1st Hokage and Naruto). He detests everything they stand for. They are the embodiment of his brother.
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He also abhors the leaf and all of their champions (Ex. 1st Hokage and Naruto). He detests everything they stand for. They are the embodiment of his brother.
Comment: It is very difficult to site the manga because he is constantly deceiving/manipulating others. Everything he says we have to take with a grain of salt.
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Comment: Everything on it is pure gold. We also can assume that it is completely true because Konan is moments from dying. Since she pushed The Masked Man to his limits, he rewards her with an honest demeanor. He states, "I am Uchiha Madara with the power of Senju Hashirama!" "I am the ONLY one who could be the second Sage of Six paths” “He who sees the future is the victor!” How can he be Uchiha Madara with the power of Senju Hashirama? I’ll let you interpret that for a sec. Remember, he uses his alter ego of Madara to express his actual sentiments.
Comment: SO6P was a god in the Naruto universe, so his children would be especially powerful. If ninjas such as Hidan, Kakuzu, Sasori and Oro can achieve immortality, it is plausible that the elder son found a way to extend his life span. Obviously his younger son, being the successor, chose the same fate of his father and died of natural causes/old age. How did Elder son survive for so long?
Zetsu. He can replace his body parts, which means his body can't decay. His sharingan that is always active grants him greater perception (no way to sneak up on him) and his space-time techniques make it impossible for someone to kill him. Conclusion = Tobi is invincible and immortal.
Zetsu. He can replace his body parts, which means his body can't decay. His sharingan that is always active grants him greater perception (no way to sneak up on him) and his space-time techniques make it impossible for someone to kill him. Conclusion = Tobi is invincible and immortal.
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I wish we knew more about his pocket dimension. It could be a clue to his immortality. If Torune and Fu didn't die in there after several weeks, this means that time is nonexistant in that dimension. He can fully manipulate the rules of time and space in his pocket dimension - similar to Itachi's Tsukuyomi gen jutsu.
Comment: If he's Madara why would he hide his face? Why does he still use the mask? And NO, it wasn't actually Madara who was seen in the Itachi/Kisame flashbacks. Kisame met a long-haired Tobi and than he recognized short-haired Tobi as the same person! So, this person is not Madara just because he has long hair lol. It's one of the ploys Kishi put in the manga just to fuk with our minds.
Comment: Itachi and Kisame both met the man they had thought to be Uchiha Madara. Long-haired Tobi approached Kisame and falsely called himself Uchiha Madara. When short-haired Tobi approached him again, Kisame recognized him as the same person. Therefore, long haired Tobi and short-haired Tobi are the same mysterious character.
Long-haired Tobi approaching Kisame :
Short-haired Tobi recognized by Kisame:
Long-haired Tobi approaching Kisame :
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Short-haired Tobi recognized by Kisame:
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Comment: Both Tobi and Zetsu are leagues above all other ninja. Their abilities are incredible. They could quite possibly be from another time/place. They do not fit in the story. Tobi is technically invincible and Zetsu easily disabled the four kages at the summit.
His powers are beyond what we have seen so far in manga. Minato is epic but his techniques are nowhere near the level of Tobi's. Minato is just using ultra fast summoning. His secret is in the speed of his movement. Tobi on other hand is pure master of space/time. Not only he can move through space but it seems that he can also control time in his pocket dimension. Fu and Torune were in there for weeks and they apparently did not die.
How does he manipulate space and time is still a mystery to me. It could have something to do with the unique perception that these doujutsus grant their users. As we know - time and matter is illusion, and is limited by our eyes and our perception.
His powers are beyond what we have seen so far in manga. Minato is epic but his techniques are nowhere near the level of Tobi's. Minato is just using ultra fast summoning. His secret is in the speed of his movement. Tobi on other hand is pure master of space/time. Not only he can move through space but it seems that he can also control time in his pocket dimension. Fu and Torune were in there for weeks and they apparently did not die.
How does he manipulate space and time is still a mystery to me. It could have something to do with the unique perception that these doujutsus grant their users. As we know - time and matter is illusion, and is limited by our eyes and our perception.
Comment: When fighting Konan, the Masked Man claimed to have given the Rinnegan to Nagato and was retrieving what was originally his. If he is the elder son, this would explain how these ancient eyes magically appeared in a random young boy - Nagato. Considering that we now know that the Rinnegan is a stage in the maturity of the sharingan (3 tomoe, MS, EMS, Rinngan). The masked man loaned his Rinngan to Nagato/Pain, so that he could manipulate him. He was merely a pawn in his grand scheme, which we do not fully understand yet.
Comment: If this is a weakened state, imagine when he is complete. He is weak probably due to his extremely old age. He is living thanks to Zetsu.
Comment: He told Naruto, Kakashi and Yamato of how the Senju and Uchiha are destined to always fight one another
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Comment: To continue his fathers legacy. It's a classic story …
Here he says that Rinne Tensei was supposed to be used for his own means. I believe he wanted Nagato to resurrect the Juubi after they collected all the bijuus. He also mentions Sasuke. If he cannot control Sasuke, he will have no use in their plan. This could explain why he doesn't want to revive Madara. He could prove to be too difficult to control unlike Nagato.
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Here he says that Rinne Tensei was supposed to be used for his own means. I believe he wanted Nagato to resurrect the Juubi after they collected all the bijuus. He also mentions Sasuke. If he cannot control Sasuke, he will have no use in their plan. This could explain why he doesn't want to revive Madara. He could prove to be too difficult to control unlike Nagato.
The Legacy of Sage of the Six Paths - The Ultimate Doujutsu
- The intertwined fate between the two bloodlines Senju vs Uchiha
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Comment: The fact is, since that day he and his descendants always took the role of being inferior to Senju.
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Sage, along with the Rinnegan, was introduced before his sons :
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This can only mean that Uchiha clan's ancestor swirly doujutsu is not a mistake or an interpretation of the manga! It was drawn by Kishimoto with intention! The Elder son's eyes are derived from the Rinnegan. It is similar, but slightly different.
Comment: Kamui = Sharingan technique
Tobi's swirly warp = undefined doujutsu technique
The Sharingan is derived from Elder son's doujutsu, obviously the sharingan and it's jutsus are going to be inferior to the doujutsu it derived from - which explains why Kakashi's Kamui is comparatively inferior.
The 3rd Databook says : "If one spends a lot of time and trains one's chakra over and over again, this technique can be invoked." This supports my idea even more than before!
Also, Tobi's previous mask looked like the his swirly doujutsu. His new mask looks a bit different.
Considering that Tobi now has both the Rinnegan and Sharingan, it could represent the Juubi's doujutsu.
Tobi's swirly warp = undefined doujutsu technique
The Sharingan is derived from Elder son's doujutsu, obviously the sharingan and it's jutsus are going to be inferior to the doujutsu it derived from - which explains why Kakashi's Kamui is comparatively inferior.
The 3rd Databook says : "If one spends a lot of time and trains one's chakra over and over again, this technique can be invoked." This supports my idea even more than before!
Also, Tobi's previous mask looked like the his swirly doujutsu. His new mask looks a bit different.
Considering that Tobi now has both the Rinnegan and Sharingan, it could represent the Juubi's doujutsu.
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Comment: There is definitely a lot more to explore with the re-ocurring theme of melding the body of the Senju and the eyes of the Uchiha. Another example is Nagato/Pain. According to Tobi, Nagato is a descendant of the Uzumaki clan (trademark red hair). If he gave him the Rinngan, then we have yet again another example. The Masked Man tried to combine these two traits.
In addition, we know that Kabuto did something to Madara's newly summoned body which made him beyond what he was in his prime. Key word body. Perhaps, an injection of Senju cells. We can only speculate at this point.
In addition, we know that Kabuto did something to Madara's newly summoned body which made him beyond what he was in his prime. Key word body. Perhaps, an injection of Senju cells. We can only speculate at this point.
Comment: The Masked Man is trying to meld the power of the Uchiha and Senju. In turn, becoming the 2nd Sage of Six Paths. Orochimaru and Kabuto were also trying to accomplish this same feat. Which is why they facilitated experiments combining the body of the Senju and the eyes of the Uchiha. They were attempting to artificially recreate the power of the Sage. Obviously, they failed with Danzo.
This was Orochimaru's goal in the original manga. It explains things. Like, why he wanted Sasuke and why he was conducting all those experiments. The only way to truly to master every jutsu was to obtain the rinngan. How do you do that? According to their hypothesis, obtain a vessel with the sharingan (sasuke) and level up accordingly (3 tomoe, MS, EMS, Rinngan)
This was Orochimaru's goal in the original manga. It explains things. Like, why he wanted Sasuke and why he was conducting all those experiments. The only way to truly to master every jutsu was to obtain the rinngan. How do you do that? According to their hypothesis, obtain a vessel with the sharingan (sasuke) and level up accordingly (3 tomoe, MS, EMS, Rinngan)
Comment: The power of the Sage of the Six Paths is pure creation. Your only limits would be your own imagination. The miscellaneous powers granted by higher level Sharingan revolve around creation and destruction. The perfect Rinnegan will ultimately culminate in a doujutsu that affects the very fabric of reality. A complete Izangi. The Masked Man explains …
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Disproving Other Theories regarding the Identity of Tobi
- Honestly who could be dark, evil and powerful enough to fill Tobi's spot? Tobi = Kishimoto
Comment: There is not much to choose from. Madara? If he is, then why would the summoned Madara refer to himself as "him". And Kabuto refers to Masked Man as, “his assistant,” who is clearly not Madara because he is standing right in front of him. This does not make sense and you know it.
It would be stupid from Kishi to keep us in such suspension, put all these ploys and riddles in the manga just to finally reveal that Tobi was Izuna, Kagami, Zetsu (not clone of Madara) or some other regular character. It's not just stupid, it is a total let down and it doesn't enrich the story in any way. Kishi is way better writer than that. People want to see something epic and only a new, unknown character of an epic caliber would achieve this.
Another reason why most of the "Tobi is..." theories fails is because those characters lack motive, skill and knowledge. Elder son of the Sage fits perfectly in the whole story. He has the motive, the power and the knowledge to be the Masked Man. He's not even reported to be dead like most of the other candidates. If anything, he has the biggest motive of all for being Tobi. That's why I choosed to work on this character instead of others.
It would be stupid from Kishi to keep us in such suspension, put all these ploys and riddles in the manga just to finally reveal that Tobi was Izuna, Kagami, Zetsu (not clone of Madara) or some other regular character. It's not just stupid, it is a total let down and it doesn't enrich the story in any way. Kishi is way better writer than that. People want to see something epic and only a new, unknown character of an epic caliber would achieve this.
Another reason why most of the "Tobi is..." theories fails is because those characters lack motive, skill and knowledge. Elder son of the Sage fits perfectly in the whole story. He has the motive, the power and the knowledge to be the Masked Man. He's not even reported to be dead like most of the other candidates. If anything, he has the biggest motive of all for being Tobi. That's why I choosed to work on this character instead of others.
Comment: He is arrogant and aloof at times. He is always underestimating his opponents (b/c he can) and treats everyone like children. In chapter 560, Madara does not convey these characteristics in the least.
Masked Man acting arrogant and underestimating Konan, twice:
Masked Man acting arrogant and underestimating Minato :
The Masked Man has shown a specific characteristic that Uchiha Madara does not have.
"One sometimes needs patience to achieve their goals." (Side note : great words, I agree with him) This is something that Madara would never have said.
Madara is a fighter, a warrior. Obviosly he has a rash personality.
When his clan wanted peace, he wanted war.
When Hashirama became Hokage his rash and over emotional personality led him to the point where he was despised by his clan and had to leave the village.
Bent on revenge, his rash personality led him to attack Konoha
This is not how a patient man looks, involving Kyuubi in this matter means he was dead serious on his wish to destroy Konoha
Masked Man acting arrogant and underestimating Konan, twice:
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Masked Man acting arrogant and underestimating Minato :
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The Masked Man has shown a specific characteristic that Uchiha Madara does not have.
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"One sometimes needs patience to achieve their goals." (Side note : great words, I agree with him) This is something that Madara would never have said.
Madara is a fighter, a warrior. Obviosly he has a rash personality.
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When his clan wanted peace, he wanted war.
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When Hashirama became Hokage his rash and over emotional personality led him to the point where he was despised by his clan and had to leave the village.
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Bent on revenge, his rash personality led him to attack Konoha
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This is not how a patient man looks, involving Kyuubi in this matter means he was dead serious on his wish to destroy Konoha
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Comment: Look at his hair. It looks very similar but is not the same as Madara's. I believe this is just one of the ploys Kishi put in the story to throw the reader off track. That bastard like's to toy with us.
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Zetsu does not copy persons mind or their memory.
Zetsu Neji failed to fool Sakura when he thought TonTon was a human. Zetsu clones retain their own mind.
They only copy appearance and chakra. They are not as good as original, even if they have their chakra and they can perform all their jutsus.
Madara, nor Zetsu doesn't have any of Tobi's Space/Time abilities.
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Zetsu Neji failed to fool Sakura when he thought TonTon was a human. Zetsu clones retain their own mind.
They only copy appearance and chakra. They are not as good as original, even if they have their chakra and they can perform all their jutsus.
Madara, nor Zetsu doesn't have any of Tobi's Space/Time abilities.
It's not Shisui. When Tobi attacked leaf he had his flame pattern mask, the same mask he was using when he approached Itachi.
To think that Itachi would not be able to recognize his own best friend, is silly to say the least.
Shisui has MS, Tobi doesn't. Both of Shisui eyes are taken/destroyed. His body was taken by Danzou. He even took Shisui right arm to reduce the draining effect of the Sharingans.
This is a speculation but I think that Shisui even made a deal with Danzou, they certainly had the same ideology (self sacrifice of shinobi who protects the village within it's shadows). He gave him his eye so Danzou could protect the village and asked for him to take care of his body after he dies(erase his existance). This could be the reason why Kabuto couldn't find his body.
Tobi has incredible Space/Time jutsus while Shisui doesn't have any. Tobi is an old man while Shisui was in his late 20s when he died.
Tobi has extensive knowledge about Madara,Hashirama and their time. Shisui couldn't have known this. This is not something that is written on the stone monument.
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To think that Itachi would not be able to recognize his own best friend, is silly to say the least.
Shisui has MS, Tobi doesn't. Both of Shisui eyes are taken/destroyed. His body was taken by Danzou. He even took Shisui right arm to reduce the draining effect of the Sharingans.
This is a speculation but I think that Shisui even made a deal with Danzou, they certainly had the same ideology (self sacrifice of shinobi who protects the village within it's shadows). He gave him his eye so Danzou could protect the village and asked for him to take care of his body after he dies(erase his existance). This could be the reason why Kabuto couldn't find his body.
Tobi has incredible Space/Time jutsus while Shisui doesn't have any. Tobi is an old man while Shisui was in his late 20s when he died.
Tobi has extensive knowledge about Madara,Hashirama and their time. Shisui couldn't have known this. This is not something that is written on the stone monument.
Kagami is hardest to disprove because nothing is known about him.
For me, his sole purpose is for Kishimoto to mind**** his readers. Throw a random Uchiha from early Konoha times so everyone would go crazy about him. And, amazingly, it worked.
From what little we can deduct is that his team was going on the mission with team Tobirama. Usually, teams are not paired from random teams but rather from those that can work together very well. More or less they knew about each others abilities. Tobi on other hand didn't know a single thing about Edo Tensei, only that it somehow summons dead ninjas.
Yes, this is a forbidden tech and most probably noone knew how it works, not even Tobirama's team but wouldn't Kagami try to figure it out seeing how powerful this techique is? He could have even summoned Madara/Izuna/Hashirama or other powerful ninjas!
Another thing that leads me to think Tobi is not Kagame is the fact Madara knew that the only man who could have waged this war is Tobi. Kagami was in 20s at best, how would a random Uchiha be that powerful that even Madara would acknowledge his might? Madara even said that Tobi has something in mind. How would a young man like Kagami have enough power to wage a world-wide war and have a grand plan of some kind?
This would all work only if Kagami was Madara's apprentice and they worked together, and at some point Kagami betrayed Madara and went on with his own plan. But than how does Zetsu fit in the whole picture? If Madara was the original mastermind than Zetsu should have been his creation. We see that Tobi has zetsu body parts and they trust each other. Why would Zetsu betray Madara for Kagami?
Like is said, this is hardest to disprove and I think there's not much of a point in doing so. Kagami is just a random ninja who we know nothing about, not even a motive behind his actions if he's Tobi.
For me, his sole purpose is for Kishimoto to mind**** his readers. Throw a random Uchiha from early Konoha times so everyone would go crazy about him. And, amazingly, it worked.
From what little we can deduct is that his team was going on the mission with team Tobirama. Usually, teams are not paired from random teams but rather from those that can work together very well. More or less they knew about each others abilities. Tobi on other hand didn't know a single thing about Edo Tensei, only that it somehow summons dead ninjas.
Yes, this is a forbidden tech and most probably noone knew how it works, not even Tobirama's team but wouldn't Kagami try to figure it out seeing how powerful this techique is? He could have even summoned Madara/Izuna/Hashirama or other powerful ninjas!
Another thing that leads me to think Tobi is not Kagame is the fact Madara knew that the only man who could have waged this war is Tobi. Kagami was in 20s at best, how would a random Uchiha be that powerful that even Madara would acknowledge his might? Madara even said that Tobi has something in mind. How would a young man like Kagami have enough power to wage a world-wide war and have a grand plan of some kind?
This would all work only if Kagami was Madara's apprentice and they worked together, and at some point Kagami betrayed Madara and went on with his own plan. But than how does Zetsu fit in the whole picture? If Madara was the original mastermind than Zetsu should have been his creation. We see that Tobi has zetsu body parts and they trust each other. Why would Zetsu betray Madara for Kagami?
Like is said, this is hardest to disprove and I think there's not much of a point in doing so. Kagami is just a random ninja who we know nothing about, not even a motive behind his actions if he's Tobi.
Izuna is dead. He sacrificed his eyes and died in most noble way he could - in battle, as a ninja despite his blindness. Izuna simply lacks motive, knowledge and skill to be Tobi.
We know Madara was superior to Izuna.
"I was born with the greatest, strongest chakra they'd ever seen."
"I obtained flawless Mangekyou Sharingan, and became leader of the Uchiha."
No doubt, Madara was the best Uchiha of his time, so how come this Izuna became most powerful and dreadful being in the world? Even developing incredible Space/Time jutsus that noone else had ever seen.
He sacrificed his eyes for the good of the clan, the same clan that he would later exterminate like rats? All because they wanted peace and didn't want another war with Senju and more casualties in their ranks?
Main reason of why people think Tobi is Izuna is because Madara was expecting to be ressurected and people think that Izuna is the only one who Madara would trust.
Tobi has sharingan, he knows how to release Edo Tensei so why doesn't he put Kabuto under genjutsu (remember he's powerful enough to control Mizukage/Nine Tails) and make him release Edo Madara? He also has rinnegan so he could ressurect him now. Why doesn't he do it? Does it even looks like Tobi cares for Madara?
He was suprised that Kabuto would summon someone of Madara's caliber and he said that there is no point in fighting Kabuto, that would only lessen his own warfighting capabilities. Itachi, Madara, Nagato (and countless of other Edo Tensei's) versus Tobi without Rinnegan? Of course Tobi can't refuse...
I can't really disprove Izuna theory but it has too many contradictions that makes this theory impossible to be right.
We know Madara was superior to Izuna.
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"I was born with the greatest, strongest chakra they'd ever seen."
"I obtained flawless Mangekyou Sharingan, and became leader of the Uchiha."
No doubt, Madara was the best Uchiha of his time, so how come this Izuna became most powerful and dreadful being in the world? Even developing incredible Space/Time jutsus that noone else had ever seen.
He sacrificed his eyes for the good of the clan, the same clan that he would later exterminate like rats? All because they wanted peace and didn't want another war with Senju and more casualties in their ranks?
Main reason of why people think Tobi is Izuna is because Madara was expecting to be ressurected and people think that Izuna is the only one who Madara would trust.
Tobi has sharingan, he knows how to release Edo Tensei so why doesn't he put Kabuto under genjutsu (remember he's powerful enough to control Mizukage/Nine Tails) and make him release Edo Madara? He also has rinnegan so he could ressurect him now. Why doesn't he do it? Does it even looks like Tobi cares for Madara?
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He was suprised that Kabuto would summon someone of Madara's caliber and he said that there is no point in fighting Kabuto, that would only lessen his own warfighting capabilities. Itachi, Madara, Nagato (and countless of other Edo Tensei's) versus Tobi without Rinnegan? Of course Tobi can't refuse...
I can't really disprove Izuna theory but it has too many contradictions that makes this theory impossible to be right.
Comment: For all the Obito fanboys! Unlike Kakashi, Tobi can't warp people from a distance, he needs to grab them and then he sucks them inside the wormhole that forms infront of his eyes.
He can warp in and out, where as Kakashi can only warp in. It may be an incomplete version of Tobi’s space-time jutsu. Kamui consumes a large amount of chakra to perform, where as Tobi’s warp jutsu does not seem to consume any chakra at all.
According to the Third Databook, "If one spends a lot of time and trains one's chakra over and over again, this technique can be invoked." This might hint that other Mangekyō users can access the technique, but this is not confirmed.
Kamui is not an unique Mangekyou jutsu of Obito’s eyes. Considering this was the main piece of evidence of all Obito theories, I’d say there’s no point in arguing any further. I could write alot more but it's just pointless. I don't really care much for people who believes in Obito theories so I won't even bother to explain anything else.
He can warp in and out, where as Kakashi can only warp in. It may be an incomplete version of Tobi’s space-time jutsu. Kamui consumes a large amount of chakra to perform, where as Tobi’s warp jutsu does not seem to consume any chakra at all.
According to the Third Databook, "If one spends a lot of time and trains one's chakra over and over again, this technique can be invoked." This might hint that other Mangekyō users can access the technique, but this is not confirmed.
Kamui is not an unique Mangekyou jutsu of Obito’s eyes. Considering this was the main piece of evidence of all Obito theories, I’d say there’s no point in arguing any further. I could write alot more but it's just pointless. I don't really care much for people who believes in Obito theories so I won't even bother to explain anything else.
The Kyuubi Incident
- Masked Man’s sudden attack on the Leaf Village
Comment: I gave some thought to it and so far I could only come up with two decent reasons for Masked Man's actions:
1) To frame the Uchiha
The Leaf Village Elders knew that Uchiha's were planning for coup d'etat and they were pressing 3rd Hokage to get to terminate the problem.
Hiruzen, being the good person he is, believed in handling things peacefully and did not agree with Elders. He believed that there is a way to comprimise without bloodshed. Following the Nine Tails incident, the Elders pressed Hiruzen even more. Breaking under the pressure he agreed and gave the go ahead. His view on the matter was the same as Itachi's. He knew that something had to be done, otherwise the whole village, the fire country and perhaps the whole ninja world could fall in to the state of chaos. Killing for the "greater good".
You may be wondering why would Tobi would help bring about the death of the Uchiha Clan? Well, there many possible reasons:
- He may have wanted to collect all the left over sharingans for his own means (reason unknown)
- He may have wanted to prevent anyone else from obtaining Rinnegan (ex. Oro, Danzou)
- For all we know he might have truly despised the Uchihas. In his eyes they could have been failures and disgrace to him. They lost to the Senjus and were essentially their pets. Tobi respects power, that's partially why he admires Hashirama. It's almost as though Tobi carried out Madara's vengenance on the Uchiha for him. First, by using the 9 tail fox to mislead the Senju. Then by helping Itachi kill everyone. The Leaf thought that the Uchihas were the only ninjas capable of controlling the 9 tailed fox. The Leaf/Senju assumed that the Uchiha were trying to debilitate the village leading up to the coup d'etat.
2) To obtain the Kyuubi. You might be thinking: "But he can't seal Kyuubi in gedo mazo, you need to seal it from the lowest tail to highest, otherwise the statue will collapse!". That is true, he couldn't seal it in Gedo Mazo just yet but he had a perfect jinchuurikki at his disposal - The fourth Mizukage.
Yagura was said to be one of the people who could fully control his bijuu. We know that 3-tails was roaming free when Akatsuki went after it.
"It was also stated by Tsunade in the anime that the Three-Tails disappeared after a great war."
Apparently, Tobi released three tails from Yagura to seal the Nine tails in him. It fits perfectly in the timeline and it would explain why the hell Tobi choose to control Yagura.
What bugs me here is that extracting bijuu almost always ends in the Jinchuurikki's death. How did Yagura survive the extraction?
1) To frame the Uchiha
The Leaf Village Elders knew that Uchiha's were planning for coup d'etat and they were pressing 3rd Hokage to get to terminate the problem.
Hiruzen, being the good person he is, believed in handling things peacefully and did not agree with Elders. He believed that there is a way to comprimise without bloodshed. Following the Nine Tails incident, the Elders pressed Hiruzen even more. Breaking under the pressure he agreed and gave the go ahead. His view on the matter was the same as Itachi's. He knew that something had to be done, otherwise the whole village, the fire country and perhaps the whole ninja world could fall in to the state of chaos. Killing for the "greater good".
You may be wondering why would Tobi would help bring about the death of the Uchiha Clan? Well, there many possible reasons:
- He may have wanted to collect all the left over sharingans for his own means (reason unknown)
- He may have wanted to prevent anyone else from obtaining Rinnegan (ex. Oro, Danzou)
- For all we know he might have truly despised the Uchihas. In his eyes they could have been failures and disgrace to him. They lost to the Senjus and were essentially their pets. Tobi respects power, that's partially why he admires Hashirama. It's almost as though Tobi carried out Madara's vengenance on the Uchiha for him. First, by using the 9 tail fox to mislead the Senju. Then by helping Itachi kill everyone. The Leaf thought that the Uchihas were the only ninjas capable of controlling the 9 tailed fox. The Leaf/Senju assumed that the Uchiha were trying to debilitate the village leading up to the coup d'etat.
2) To obtain the Kyuubi. You might be thinking: "But he can't seal Kyuubi in gedo mazo, you need to seal it from the lowest tail to highest, otherwise the statue will collapse!". That is true, he couldn't seal it in Gedo Mazo just yet but he had a perfect jinchuurikki at his disposal - The fourth Mizukage.
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Yagura was said to be one of the people who could fully control his bijuu. We know that 3-tails was roaming free when Akatsuki went after it.
You must be registered for see links
"It was also stated by Tsunade in the anime that the Three-Tails disappeared after a great war."
Apparently, Tobi released three tails from Yagura to seal the Nine tails in him. It fits perfectly in the timeline and it would explain why the hell Tobi choose to control Yagura.
What bugs me here is that extracting bijuu almost always ends in the Jinchuurikki's death. How did Yagura survive the extraction?
Room for Speculation?!
- Far fetched Idea
Comment: Madara could very well have been apprentice of elder son. He was the one pushing Madara to doubt Hashirama and Senju (because of the everlasting hate between their clans). He was the one who pushed him to fight Hashirama (to obtain his cells?). He may have been the one who promised to resurrect Madara after he dies. Maybe he even wanted to use Madara to synch with Gedo Mazo and resurrect the Juubi. After that failed, he had an option to either resurrect Madara or to find a new and better host for Rinnegan – Nagato.
You know, I am starting to think that he may have used Madara all along just to get his dirty hands on Rinnegan and Hashiramas cells.
In this page:
Notice how Uchiha Madara refers to the Masked Man ... Madara knows of the "plan". He knows the Masked Man!
You know, I am starting to think that he may have used Madara all along just to get his dirty hands on Rinnegan and Hashiramas cells.
In this page:
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Notice how Uchiha Madara refers to the Masked Man ... Madara knows of the "plan". He knows the Masked Man!
Comment: SUPER INTERESTING FACT! EVERYTHING THAT HAS OCCURRED IN THE MANGA IS SOMEHOW LINKED TO THIS MASKED MAN. ex. 4th hokage's death, Hidden mist activities, Akatsuki, Pain/Nagato, Uchiha Clan massacre, current War, etc, etc. He is the cause of all the major events and problems in Naruto universe. ALL PART OF THE PLAN!
Comment:
Madara says:
"That someone was able to revive me in this kind of state... This is "his" doing.."
The problem is that most reader's mistakenly assume that Madara meant his state as the Edo Tensei summon. When, in fact, he may have meant "This state.." as the state of war/situation they are in.
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Madara says:
"That someone was able to revive me in this kind of state... This is "his" doing.."
The problem is that most reader's mistakenly assume that Madara meant his state as the Edo Tensei summon. When, in fact, he may have meant "This state.." as the state of war/situation they are in.
This is the first and last "tobi thread" I make. I found it interesting so thought I could share it with you
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