Minato vs Itachi

[lanakau888]

Itachi is better rounded, and actually has

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Minato has none for genjutsu, aside from fan faith.

Besides the fact that a kage, especially minato should at least be able to counter genjutsu, minato should know about sharingan users and the basics when battling them seeing that he is the kage of his village who should know about each clan in said village.
And what are these so called counters for speed? Susanoo? He'll never be able to hit minato with it, especially since he was never shown to be mobile while susanoo is activated. Minato could easily wait it out, as itachi drains his own chakra.

A popular argument is that Minato would warp various things back at Itachi. I disagree because he he had a whole

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of preparation across the city. It's just not feasible for Amaterasu or the Totsuka.

Minato wouldn't need to warp object to beat itachi. His ftg is fast enough to dodge anything itachi can throw, while itachi drains the hell out of his own chakra.

A popular argument is that itachi >>> anyone because of tsukyomi, which, if a character has not shown to actually have combated it, said character will lose, when we actually see sasuke, who knows tsukuyomi, fight a number of characters: raikage, gaara, kakashi, mizukage, and oonoki and was not able to use tsukuyomi on them. Raikage is the best example because after activating v2, he is just too fast for sasuke's sharingan to keep up with him, and then we have minato who is way faster than raikage's v2.

And please tell me why itachi's sharingan Perception should be way above sasuke's.
And are you still sticking with the: itachi = reacted to lighting argument?

MS sharingan users excel at 1vs1 battles, because they have extremely powerful, chakra draining jutsu's. The counter for the MS is to make it 1 vs many, or speedsters, which minato falls into the category of.

 

[GodaimeRaikage]

This is the most original thread ever made, let me ponder it's awesomeness while I attempt to choose between Itachi and Minato.

 

[DigitalMonster]

• 'Outlasting Itachi' remains the single dumbest argument.
  
• Minato, like Konan, was staring at the Sharingan, but Tobi seems to actively choose not to use Sharingan genjutsu until the endgame, like Sasuke. That's pretty much plot-induced stupidity.
  
• Hiraishin also buys chakra,Which you chose to ignore the undisputed fact, it will as well exhaust him if he use it incessantly

 

[lanakau888]

• 'Outlasting Itachi' remains the single dumbest argument.

• 
  
  and why is that? To defend against speedsters like the raikage, sasuke had to use susanoo. Why won't itachi. And we all know that susanoo drains chakra like mad. After only 10 minutes of using susanoo against danzo, sasuke was almost completely drained. And the only time ftg has shown to take a significant amount of chakra to use was when minato used it on the kyuubi. He has never shown any bit of tiring when using the technique.
  and itachi doesnt have great stamina.
  
  

  [*]Minato, like Konan, was staring at the Sharingan, but Tobi seems to actively choose not to use Sharingan genjutsu until the endgame, like Sasuke. That's pretty much plot-induced stupidity.

  cry PIS all you want. Sasuke still used it right off the bat against raikage's lackey and danzo.
  

  [*]Hiraishin also buys chakra,Which you chose to ignore the undisputed fact, it will as well exhaust him if he use it incessantly

stated above

and still waiting for answers to my questions above.

 

[Cyborg]

In my opinion Minato is a favorite to win provided he manages to escape tsukiyomi.

 

[DigitalMonster]

and why is that? To defend against speedsters like the raikage, sasuke had to use susanoo. Why won't itachi. And we all know that susanoo drains chakra like mad. After only 10 minutes of using susanoo against danzo, sasuke was almost completely drained.

Everyone, even Jiraiya, can beat Itachi if they can avoid his techniques and wait until he dies from Susano'o. But virtually nobody has the speed, intelligence, and techniques to avoid Itachi's arsenal until Itachi drops dead. 'Outlasting Itachi' remains the single dumbest argument. It just won't happen, unless Itachi is throwing the fight.

And the only time ftg has shown to take a significant amount of chakra to use was when minato used it on the kyuubi. He has never shown any bit of tiring when using the technique.

That doesn't fears Itachi.With Sharingan insight,he could see Minato's gathering chakra before he uses Hiraishin. Using his ''5'' in speed,he would do just as fine with base Minato.

and itachi doesnt have great stamina.

For a human who was at one foot from grave,but still has the willpower to cast a vision-consuming technique,an eye-bleeding out black fire and a chakra god,that was just him in his sickened state.

cry PIS all you want. Sasuke still used it right off the bat against raikage's lackey and danzo.

Doesn't prove anything.

Don't try to compare them.

 

[Blaze Release]

Alot of people need to understand that unlike madara, minato cannot teleport at will, he needs to direct a teleportation tag in the direction of his opponent if he wants to teleport there.

Alot of people keep bringing minato's speed and right so. But lets not forget that every ninja has a technique that they are known for, in minato's case FTG and rasengan and in itachi's case his ms techniques. But lets not forget that, both these characters have acquired other skills such as observation and strategy. Itachi said every technique has its down side and he immediately identified chibaku tensei's weakness. Not to forget that itachi himself isnt exactly a snail. He is also extremely fast noted by both kakashi and sasuke who both have the sharigan, but the reason people do not mention his speed as much as they mention raikage and minato's is because he is known for his ms technqiues whilst those two are know for their speed.

Anyway we still havent seen either one of them properly fight. Itachi won all his fights against oro, kakashi,deidora and sasuke and in all these fights he has been holding back and yet he still won against some extremely strong ninja's.

Minato has fought fairly average ninja's during the war who you cannot compare to the people itachi has fought and defeated. Saying that we did see a glimpse of how strong he is when he stopped madara. Saying that this 'fight' can be debated.

 

[-Vegeta-]

Minato wins. Now enough with these Itachi vs Minato threads.

 

[Jupiter]

tie

 

[lanakau888]

Everyone, even Jiraiya, can beat Itachi if they can avoid his techniques and wait until he dies from Susano'o. But virtually nobody has the speed, intelligence, and techniques to avoid Itachi's arsenal until Itachi drops dead. 'Outlasting Itachi' remains the single dumbest argument. It just won't happen, unless Itachi is throwing the fight.

i and a lot of other people would agree that minato most definitely has the speed, intelligence and technique to avoid itachi's arsenal until itachi drops dead.

That doesn't fears Itachi.With Sharingan insight,he could see Minato's gathering chakra before he uses Hiraishin. Using his ''5'' in speed,he would do just as fine with base Minato.

complete speculation, and seeing that minato can pretty much instantly use the ftg technique, there is no way itachi will be able to hit minato. And even if he can see him gathering chakra, doesn't mean he knows where minato will teleport to, so that wouldn't help itachi at all. Using numbers from the databook is flawed when comparing two characters with similar numbers of a certain stat. For example, kurenai and itachi both have five in genjutsu. Does that mean kurenai is on par with itachi's genjutsu? I think not.

For a human who was at one foot from grave,but still has the willpower to cast a vision-consuming technique,an eye-bleeding out black fire and a chakra god,that was just him in his sickened state.

Itachi fans need to stop using that "itachi was in a sickened state, so a healthy itachi is way more powerful" argument. The databook gives him a 2.5 in stamina, which directly means he has a lot less stamina than most of the kage-level characters. And the 2.5 was not because he was sick. Kimimaro was literally one foot in the grave with sickness, as in he died while fighting, and he has a 4.5 in stamina. We can use numbers like 2.5 because there is a significant difference (its only half of the mainstream 5 that kage level characters get) between that number and a 5, where as a difference between a 5 and a 5 can exist like I explained with kurenai.

Doesn't prove anything.

Don't try to compare them.

Yet you use sasuke and madara as a reference in the previous post when you think it helps your argument:

Minato, like Konan, was staring at the Sharingan, but Tobi seems to actively choose not to use Sharingan genjutsu until the endgame, like Sasuke. That's pretty much plot-induced stupidity.

 

[Kira was Righteous]

If Minato tags him hes screwed if Itachi gets him in genjutsu and minato hasnt got a counter which seeing as hes the hokage he probably does then Itachi would win but from what ive seen if Minato dodges with FTG until Itachi runs out of stamnia well Itachis dead...

 

[Urda]

Minato.

 

[lanakau888]

Alot of people need to understand that unlike madara, minato cannot teleport at will, he needs to direct a teleportation tag in the direction of his opponent if he wants to teleport there.

we see him spam the teleportation tags all around the battlefield. And he can add seals to anything he touches. Plus his teleportation is quicker than madaras.

Alot of people keep bringing minato's speed and right so. But lets not forget that every ninja has a technique that they are known for, in minato's case FTG and rasengan and in itachi's case his ms techniques. But lets not forget that, both these characters have acquired other skills such as observation and strategy. Itachi said every technique has its down side and he immediately identified chibaku tensei's weakness. Not to forget that itachi himself isnt exactly a snail. He is also extremely fast noted by both kakashi and sasuke who both have the sharigan, but the reason people do not mention his speed as much as they mention raikage and minato's is because he is known for his ms technqiues whilst those two are know for their speed.

Kakashi was referring to itachi's signweaving speed not his movement speed. If itachi's speed was anything to take not about, we would have guys like naruto and bee giving statements about how fast itachi is. Bee would definitely have said something if itachi's speed was on par his brother's V1 let alone V2.

Anyway we still havent seen either one of them properly fight. Itachi won all his fights against oro, kakashi,deidora and sasuke and in all these fights he has been holding back and yet he still won against some extremely strong ninja's.

Minato has fought fairly average ninja's during the war who you cannot compare to the people itachi has fought and defeated. Saying that we did see a glimpse of how strong he is when he stopped madara. Saying that this 'fight' can be debated.

I think you are forgetting the flashback where minato would have killed raikage in an instant if bee didn't save him. And lets not forget that the sannin, hiruzen, the tsuchikage, and all the members of the great nations were fighting in that war, yet none of them got the flee-on-sight order that minato's presence was warranted.

 

[deidara senpai]

as i have explained on countless threads minato wins and im not discussing

 

[Turson]

I believe that Itachi would win, but not becuase his MS powers, but becuase of his standard genjutsu. True, Minato can break it, but he wont do it if he wont know that hes affected by it, and thats how Itachis gen works - one dont know that hes uder genjutsu, until weird shit starts to happen, and Minato dont have Sharingan, so he cant see through Itachi illusion from the very start. Itachi can use it as opening and kill Minato with, lest say, simple kunai in the back. I believe that those two are pretty much on the same level, but Itachi has very good abilities to take on Minato. With genjutsu, he can make Minatos FTG useless.

 

[Blaze Release]

we see him spam the teleportation tags all around the battlefield. And he can add seals to anything he touches. Plus his teleportation is quicker than madaras.


Kakashi was referring to itachi's signweaving speed not his movement speed. If itachi's speed was anything to take not about, we would have guys like naruto and bee giving statements about how fast itachi is. Bee would definitely have said something if itachi's speed was on par his brother's V1 let alone V2.


I think you are forgetting the flashback where minato would have killed raikage in an instant if bee didn't save him. And lets not forget that the sannin, hiruzen, the tsuchikage, and all the members of the great nations were fighting in that war, yet none of them got the flee-on-sight order that minato's presence was warranted.

It was not minato who spammed the tags. He gave the leaf ninja's his special teleportation kunai and told them to through it at the direction of his opponents. If it was a one vs one fight, minato wouldnt have any help like that against itachi.

Even if kakashi was referring to itachis hand speed, itachi is still extremely fast, i suggest you watch his fight against sasuke again. Also if you extremely fast with hand signs, i doubt the rest of your body would be slow. Just because bee or naruto didnt mention anything about his speed doesnt mean he isnt fast, for all you know kishi had better things to let bee or naruto say. Also bee and naruto hardly fought itachi.

The reason why none of these other great ninja's didnt have the flee on sight tag to their name is because they arent as fast as minato. That tag has more to do with minato's speed than strength

 

[lanakau888]

It was not minato who spammed the tags. He gave the leaf ninja's his special teleportation kunai and told them to through it at the direction of his opponents. If it was a one vs one fight, minato wouldnt have any help like that against itachi.

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minato spams kunai on his own

Even if kakashi was referring to itachis hand speed, itachi is still extremely fast, i suggest you watch his fight against sasuke again. Also if you extremely fast with hand signs, i doubt the rest of your body would be slow. Just because bee or naruto didnt mention anything about his speed doesnt mean he isnt fast, for all you know kishi had better things to let bee or naruto say. Also bee and naruto hardly fought itachi.

Brother, I read the itachi vs sasuke fight and throughout the entire fight, they are both completely even in speed, which actually hurts your argument for itachi.

Whenever a character is shown to be fast, there has been a character statement that has emphasized said point:

Lee vs gaara
sasuke vs gaara
when sasuke meets gaara in part 2
sasuke vs deidara
bee vs taka
raikage vs sasuke
naruto vs raikage

whenever a character has a speed advantage over another, or has a particularly high level of speed, they always get a statement. Itachi has only gotten this statement about his handseals.

itachi's speed is equal to sasuke's speed, who isn't as fast, but can has the ability to counter v1 raikage, but can't even keep his eyes on v2 raikage, who is slower than minato.

The reason why none of these other great ninja's didnt have the flee on sight tag to their name is because they arent as fast as minato. That tag has more to do with minato's speed than strength

Once again that is pure speculation and theory because it is not supported by any evidence in the manga.

 

[DigitalMonster]

i and a lot of other people would agree that minato most definitely has the speed, intelligence and technique to avoid itachi's arsenal until itachi drops dead.

That is you and the fans' assumption,which doesn't count here.

complete speculation, and seeing that minato can pretty much instantly use the ftg technique, there is no way itachi will be able to hit minato. And even if he can see him gathering chakra, doesn't mean he knows where minato will teleport to, so that wouldn't help itachi at all. Using numbers from the databook is flawed when comparing two characters with similar numbers of a certain stat. For example, kurenai and itachi both have five in genjutsu. Does that mean kurenai is on par with itachi's genjutsu? I think not.

Itachi was keeping up with Bee and Naruto simultaneously,with both of them being one of the fastest character in this manga,and since then,Itachi could and should be able to handle Base Minato individually.
He could prepared bunshin feint as he always did,which a non-genjutsu-counters couldn't figure the trick.

Itachi fans need to stop using that "itachi was in a sickened state, so a healthy itachi is way more powerful" argument. The databook gives him a 2.5 in stamina, which directly means he has a lot less stamina than most of the kage-level characters. And the 2.5 was not because he was sick. Kimimaro was literally one foot in the grave with sickness, as in he died while fighting, and he has a 4.5 in stamina. We can use numbers like 2.5 because there is a significant difference (its only half of the mainstream 5 that kage level characters get) between that number and a 5, where as a difference between a 5 and a 5 can exist like I explained with kurenai

Please,show me,have you ever seen a healthy Itachi? The databook are all concerning about the unhealthy Itachi,which were the only Itachi.His stats will be renewed eventually.

Yet you use sasuke and madara as a reference in the previous post when you think it helps your argument:

I'm glad that you had finally get what ''speculative assumption'' means as I once thought you didn't:

lol
1st off itachi's sharingan perception shouldn't be any better than sasuke's, which couldn't even keep up with the raikage.

Besides the fact that a kage, especially minato should at least be able to counter genjutsu,

 

[kadowade]

I believe that Itachi would win, but not becuase his MS powers, but becuase of his standard genjutsu. True, Minato can break it, but he wont do it if he wont know that hes affected by it, and thats how Itachis gen works - one dont know that hes uder genjutsu, until weird shit starts to happen, and Minato dont have Sharingan, so he cant see through Itachi illusion from the very start. Itachi can use it as opening and kill Minato with, lest say, simple kunai in the back. I believe that those two are pretty much on the same level, but Itachi has very good abilities to take on Minato. With genjutsu, he can make Minatos FTG useless.

This ^^^

 

[lanakau888]

That is you and the fans' assumption,which doesn't count here.

Wow, do I have to spell it out for you:
speed - minato is known as the fastest shinobi in existence
intelligence - knows all about the mangekyou sharingan as he has hokage knowledge, and is known as a genius that appears only once in a generation
technique - space time techniques that can warp away itachi's attacks/ FTG technique to keep his distance/ stronger than standard rasengan for attacking power/ raw physical strength to cut off one of bee's tails with just a kunai.

I said it once and ill say it again, the manga shows that sharingan is weak against two particular scenarios: multiple opponents and extreme speedsters. Minato falls into the second category.

Itachi was keeping up with Bee and Naruto simultaneously,with both of them being one of the fastest character in this manga,and since then,Itachi could and should be able to handle Base Minato individually.
He could prepared bunshin feint as he always did,which a non-genjutsu-counters couldn't figure the trick.

please, naruto wasn't using the speed he was using against the raikage. Unless you think base bee is as fast as rm naruto. Also naruto was more interested in talking to itachi about sasuke rather than trying to beat him. Itachi is only as fast as sasuke as shown in their fight.

Please,show me,have you ever seen a healthy Itachi? The databook are all concerning about the unhealthy Itachi,which were the only Itachi.His stats will be renewed eventually.

I see you ignored what I said about kimimaro. We have only seen an unhealthy kimimaro, and the databook on him says he has a 4.5 in stamina. Kimimaro was basically in the same state that itachi was in during his fight with sasuke. If itachi has the stamina that you think he has, you would think that his stamina while in a sick state, would at least be around kimimaro's stamina while kimi is in his sick state.

I'm glad that you had finally get what ''speculative assumption'' means as I once thought you didn't:

So you admit that you blatantly use speculative assumptions to support itachi.