Itachi and Nagato CANT be compared...

[ackeem1992]

yes dude i agree with u completely that no jutsu is unbeatable did i ever go against that. And if you read my link he says only another sharingan user can challenge me and madara is if not the most ultimate uchiha to be there since he was the only uchiha to control kyubi and even itachi acknowledges him on that. But didn't i not say in my last post that nagato does have a chance to break it i am not arguing that 100% sure nagato can't break it. And i said that this fight can never be settled since there is no concrete evidence on either side that proves if genjutsu like itachi's tsukiyomi can work or not, we can only use reasoning or opinions to really decide this fight but not fully actually conclude it becos there are a few x factors(like tsukiyomi) involved that only kishi can solve. But IMO i say itachi has better chance but thats just my opinion. and sorry for the double post

"sharingan user with the same bloodline as me" madara and itachi are not related by blood but clan, so like i said itachi principle is
not so with everybody madara was an ultimate uchia but sharingan was derived off rinnegan, that is also a crucial factor.

 

[arv993]

naruto doesn't have the lvl of control over his chakra as nagato does, the guy channeled his chakra through 6 bodies at the same time whilst performing different techniques, thus i concluded that nagato could simply alter or disrupt his chakra flow to break the illusion as seen done by bee and hachibi.



like a said before the sharingan was derived off the rinnegan, so itachi bloodline principle about tsukuyomi' might not be so against a rinnegan user. if this principle was so why isn't madara dead right now?



the manga did stated that susano'o is an ultimate defense, zetsu did indicated that itachi was invincible with the items, but that wasn't my point what i was getting at is that the manga says shit and does another, so nothing is guaranteed.



that wasn't my point, yall basically stated that nagato is weak against all gen-jutsu just because he was caught in a sound base illusion, the point i was making is that nagato had blocks for inoichi's mind reading gen-jutsu thus he is not weak against all genjutsu so who is to say that nagato doesn't also have block or some means of cancelling vision base genjutsu.



i already stated the reasons why tsuku is not guranteed

nagato is not weak against genjutsu but is not immune to it all, he might get out of tsukiyomi cos he has great chakra control but that is not guranteed and its hard to sirupt the chakra flow and kakashi mentions that this genjutsu is like any other one which cannot be disturbed. rinnegan is not a sure proof way of saying that one can get out of genjutsu like tsukiyomi since nagato does not possess uchiha dna and does not have access to those abilities(unless otherwise stated), nagato's rinnegan has only given him powers like ninjutsu but not all its powers like izanagi or anything . yes manga might contradict itself that happens often but really there is no point in arguing over this cos there are too many unknown factors that have to be answered which us fans do not kno and thus cannot come to a firm conclusion.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

nagato is not weak against genjutsu but is not immune to it all, he might get out of tsukiyomi cos he has great chakra control but that is not guranteed and its hard to sirupt the chakra flow and kakashi mentions that this genjutsu is like any other one which cannot be disturbed. rinnegan is not a sure proof way of saying that one can get out of genjutsu like tsukiyomi since nagato does not possess uchiha dna and does not have access to those abilities(unless otherwise stated), nagato's rinnegan has only given him powers like ninjutsu but not all its powers like izanagi or anything . yes manga might contradict itself that happens often but really there is no point in arguing over this cos there are too many unknown factors that have to be answered which us fans do not kno and thus cannot come to a firm conclusion.

long time no c dude

 

[arv993]

"sharingan user with the same bloodline as me" madara and itachi are not related by blood but clan, so like i said itachi principle is
not so with everybody madara was an ultimate uchia but sharingan was derived off rinnegan, that is also a crucial factor.

nagato does not have all the access to all the powers of the rinnegan like i said in my other post and madara is a mystery there is a reason itachi calls him the ultimate or greatest uchiha and ur right itachi's tsukiyomi might not work on him since itachi wanted to stop madara but there might also be other factors like the risks that it brings along with trying to take on madara and that is why he tried to kill him through amaterasu, i don't think its simple to go kill him and i agree with you its very likely madara can see through tsukiyomi. But that is a different story than nagato yes he may have the rinnegan but he was still affected by genjutsu there is no reason why tsukiyomi should not work on him you're relating two different things that are not similar and like i said b4 nagato is not a fully developed user of the rinnegan he has not shown all its powers probably due to his lack of paths like the uchiha or senju(uzumaki does not equal senju unless otherwise its stated). These are a few reasons why this argument is pointless there are too many x-factors and we cannot fully lean on one side(u might be totally right but we don't kno until kishi gives more info) or the other due to lack of info. we can only go with inferences right now. But anyway dude nice debating with you

 

[PositiveEmotions]

nagato does not have all the access to all the powers of the rinnegan like i said in my other post and madara is a mystery there is a reason itachi calls him the ultimate or greatest uchiha and ur right itachi's tsukiyomi might not work on him since itachi wanted to stop madara but there might also be other factors like the risks that it brings along with trying to take on madara and that is why he tried to kill him through amaterasu, i don't think its simple to go kill him and i agree with you its very likely madara can see through tsukiyomi. But that is a different story than nagato yes he may have the rinnegan but he was still affected by genjutsu there is no reason why tsukiyomi should not work on him you're relating two different things that are not similar and like i said b4 nagato is not a fully developed user of the rinnegan he has not shown all its powers probably due to his lack of paths like the uchiha or senju(uzumaki does not equal senju unless otherwise its stated). These are a few reasons why this argument is pointless there are too many x-factors and we cannot fully lean on one side(u might be totally right but we don't kno until kishi gives more info) or the other due to lack of info. we can only go with inferences right now. But anyway dude nice debating with you

nagato may not have allot of abilities but whos to say he had more abilities when madara uses it we will have an idea how powerful nagato was

 

[arv993]

nagato may not have allot of abilities but whos to say he had more abilities when madara uses it we will have an idea how powerful nagato was

madara is different from nagato, madara has senju and uchiha dna where as all we kno from nagato is that he is a uzumaki who has a rinnegan so not everything that madara shows is a power that nagato possesses and one example is izanagi. And nagato already did have a lot of abilities he had some of the most powerful techs in the series there is no denying that.

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and good to see you again too.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

madara is different from nagato, madara has senju and uchiha dna where as all we kno from nagato is that he is a uzumaki who has a rinnegan so not everything that madara shows is a power that nagato possesses and one example is izanagi. And nagato already did have a lot of abilities he had some of the most powerful techs in the series there is no denying that.

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well the way u talk about nagato u make him sound weak as fck dude

 

[ackeem1992]

nagato is not weak against genjutsu but is not immune to it all, he might get out of tsukiyomi cos he has great chakra control but that is not guranteed and its hard to sirupt the chakra flow and kakashi mentions that this genjutsu is like any other one which cannot be disturbed. rinnegan is not a sure proof way of saying that one can get out of genjutsu like tsukiyomi since nagato does not possess uchiha dna and does not have access to those abilities(unless otherwise stated), nagato's rinnegan has only given him powers like ninjutsu but not all its powers like izanagi or anything . yes manga might contradict itself that happens often but really there is no point in arguing over this cos there are too many unknown factors that have to be answered which us fans do not kno and thus cannot come to a firm conclusion.

nagato does not have all the access to all the powers of the rinnegan like i said in my other post and madara is a mystery there is a reason itachi calls him the ultimate or greatest uchiha and ur right itachi's tsukiyomi might not work on him since itachi wanted to stop madara but there might also be other factors like the risks that it brings along with trying to take on madara and that is why he tried to kill him through amaterasu, i don't think its simple to go kill him and i agree with you its very likely madara can see through tsukiyomi. But that is a different story than nagato yes he may have the rinnegan but he was still affected by genjutsu there is no reason why tsukiyomi should not work on him you're relating two different things that are not similar and like i said b4 nagato is not a fully developed user of the rinnegan he has not shown all its powers probably due to his lack of paths like the uchiha or senju(uzumaki does not equal senju unless otherwise its stated). These are a few reasons why this argument is pointless there are too many x-factors and we cannot fully lean on one side(u might be totally right but we don't kno until kishi gives more info) or the other due to lack of info. we can only go with inferences right now. But anyway dude nice debating with you

yeah your the only reasonable debater on the itachi side, too many x factor i agree however this rage storm between to two parties will never end until kishi gives us a itachi vs nagato fight which will probably never happen.

like i said in my first post on this thread, i think anybody can beat anybody because nothing is guaranteed in narutoverse. itachi can defeat nagato and vice versa. but overall i believe nagato is superior to itachi in strength.

 

[arv993]

well the way u talk about nagato u make him sound weak as fck dude

no i don't think he is weak, i did acknowledge his abilities(in my post) probably one of the best in the show/series i just don't think he is unbeatable like some ppl think. same goes for any other character maybe other than s06p.

 

[arv993]

yeah your the only reasonable debater on the itachi side, too many x factor i agree however this rage storm between to two parties will never end until kishi gives us a itachi vs nagato fight which will probably never happen.

like i said in my first post on this thread, i think anybody can beat anybody because nothing is guaranteed in narutoverse. itachi can defeat nagato and vice versa. but overall i believe nagato is superior to itachi in strength.

yea agreed and ppl can have opinions but at this point like u said we are probably not gonna have much of clarifications on their abilities and defintely not a fight 1v1 between the two. i agree especially with the part i bolded in ur response. These two parties are gonna have an eternal battle and i don't even kno why i participate in it but i guess i find it somewhat entertainingxd.

 

[kobi sugoichi kempachi]

=ReLax -;4198822]Understandable? What I can't understand is the brick wall you posted with many spelling/grammar errors. I don't know why you are trying to rage and insult people over a VS thread, quite pathetic. We all are entitled to our own opinions, which you can't change unless someone believes in what you say, I didn't rage in the previous post at you because I understand your point even tho most was assumptions but you fail to realize others.

Hey, I saw you on the thread and was just calling you out to see if you would reply, and it worked. there was no insult there. there is realy no excuse for these spelling error but let me just say that I was on E. You weren't the only one to do so Yesterday.


Yes they are intitled to there opinion but I'm intitled to call out BS when I see it. The can believe what they want and I can call it like I see it.

What were assumptions was what I said were assumtions. the rest was points that were well analyzed by what was said.

Accurate? Facts? C. However I'll say that you and others do bring up good arguments on Nagato's part but majority of it is assumtion/opinions. I always say most my statements are personally opinions or assumption and if I can back it up I'll post links.

The dead Itachi prepared to take Madara out, but didn't have intel and if he did,Madara would have been dead. So, if the real Itachi came face to face Madara with preparation he couldn't defeat him? (take note that he would know all there is about Madara). Nagato stated Jiriaya would have defeated him, not killed, if he knew about his techs. A dead Itachi, if he knew about Madara's tech would have killed him. I see, the same thing except Jiriaya would only defeat, where as Itachi would have killed.

"That wasnt Itachi but his rigged up amaterasu." LOL:flaw:

Please come with a better argument.

Accurate? yes, Opinions? No, They was made as truthful as I could make it and ""It's all opinions and a fan boys view on the topic, so quit saying you have facts at all in this."" is a incomplete sentence. your missuse of madara words clearly an Assumption that was was false.

What Nagato said about J man was a fact and I never said Killed when refering to Nagato's quote.Killed is the same thing any way cos it was plain as day that J man ment to kill Nagato based on the fact that J man stuck a stone sword threw the three Pains hearts.Hints why Nagato use that flawless strategy.U_U

dead AItachi, if he knew about Madara's tech would have killed him. I see, the same thing except Jiriaya would only defeat, where as Itachi would have killed.

See, cought in your own bs that you tried to accuse me of.

Typical.xd

You say all that bs and then go and do what you preached to me.

Let me say that this was atended to be a vs thread at the begining but it way between all other shinobi but not nagato. Now I'm going to assume that he must have been on the Itachi vs Nagato Thread and got real and yet still came off bias.lol

Owned? haha I think otherwise this war between the two is still going on.

but since I am allergic to bull sh*, "" I "" call it out and sure enough, it became a vs thread Between Itachi and Nagato!

silly me!!!!!

lmao​

prove that Itachi can Kill Madara that prove it then. I asure you that all your point will be oppinionated and thats My opinion that will soon be a fact.LOL

Im tired of sh*t but still injoy it

Let me end with this and I'll repet it so you and any one won't forget it-

FYI, assumtion and opinions can be false and if you didint know that then It must havn't been tought to you. Ppl can get mad when someone call them bias or there arguments wrong but the fact of the matter is that they can be false. You then call my paticular point on the meaning of what Madara said an opinion but can a opinion can become a fact? Yes, only when you gave factual evedince to make it a fact, and I clearly gave you a fact on what what he said and ment.

There is ""Thinking" and there is ""Critical Thinking"" and there is a very fine line between them.

 

[kadowade]

naruto doesn't have the lvl of control over his chakra as nagato does, the guy channeled his chakra through 6 bodies at the same time whilst performing different techniques, thus i concluded that nagato could simply alter or disrupt his chakra flow to break the illusion as seen done by bee and hachibi.

Will you Stop comparing Sasuke and Itachi's Tsukiyomi. Iv'e already told you Itachi alters time and preception at in his Own illusive world. And Sasuke's Do NOT! Thats why even Danzou said it was a Far Cry from itachi's. And Nagato has no Bijuu so he has no other Chakra source to escape any Genjutsu, not even a regular Genjutsu.

Remember when Lady Chyio said "In order to escape a regular genjutsu, one's chakra must be disturbed by ANOTHER chakra source. And Nagato has NO other chakra source but his own. Bee had ANOTHER Chakra source other than his own and that was the 8-tails.

Even if Tsukiyomi Was able to be broken by disturbing you own chakra, that would be impossible, because you are At Itachi's will, And your mind will be feeling so much pain, and agony, until you lose your spirit and Die, so you wont even be able to disturb your chakra. Plus Disturbing your Chakra requires a HAND SIGN, which you WON'T be able to perform in ITachi's Tsukiyomi.

like a said before the sharingan was derived off the rinnegan, so itachi bloodline principle about tsukuyomi' might not be so against a rinnegan user. if this principle was so why isn't madara dead right now?

Yes the Sharingan came off of the Rinnegan, but they are 2 completley diffrent powers, so The rinnegan isn't an automatic counter for Tsukiyomi since The rinnegan posses NO such ability. All the Rinnegan did to nagato was give him a set of powers which was nothing like Sharingan Techniques therfore his Rinnegan is useless in trying to counter Genjutsu. Since it posses No such ability to do so.

the manga did stated that susano'o is an ultimate defense, zetsu did indicated that itachi was invincible with the items, but that wasn't my point what i was getting at is that the manga says shit and does another, so nothing is guaranteed.

True, but itachi's Susano'o so far has shown to be somewhat the Ultimate Defense since he has the invincible Sheild.

that wasn't my point, yall basically stated that nagato is weak against all gen-jutsu just because he was caught in a sound base illusion, the point i was making is that nagato had blocks for inoichi's mind reading gen-jutsu thus he is not weak against all genjutsu so who is to say that nagato doesn't also have block or some means of cancelling vision base genjutsu.

Vision based or sound based, it's both still an illusion that affects the brain.
It dosen't matter how it is delivered, the result is the same : You suffer an illusion:

i already stated the reasons why tsuku is not guranteed

And i already stated why it may be garunteed

 

[Inception]

True I agree with you here but Kabuto did forget about that Itachi was there so yes Kabuto did mess up.

The fact that he had his hands full with 2 Jinchuuriki and he managed to capture both of them in mere seconds as compared to Pain who fought a weaker Naruto 1 on 1 and could not capture him. I hope the blind ones in this thread see this difference I just stated. Kabuto had captured them, Itachi freed them both. Had it not been for Itachi, Naruto and Bee's souls would both be in Naraka Path.

And people claiming that since Bee broke out of Sasuke's Tsukiyomi, so can Nagato. Are you seriously this stupid? Bee is a Jinchuuriki, he has another set of mind to help him break free/ disrupt his chakra. Nagato is one person, one mind. If a genjutsu hit him, there would be no one to set him free as seen from his fight with Jiraiya. Sasuke's Tsukiyomi is NOTHING compared to Itachi. Danzo confirmed this, Tobi himself said this. Bee was caught in a normal genjutsu by Itachi lols.

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"My illusion jutsu "Tsukiyomi" cannot be beaten! Only a sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me..."

He's talking about his Tsukiyomi. S.T.F.U

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3 days in a second, his Tsukiyomi will take effect as soon as it hits.

Also, the Susano'o that Danzo blew away, Raikage punched through and Mei melted was incomplete. Itachi mastered the Susano'o and so has Sasuke now. You can't compare an incomplete version of Susano'o to Itachi's complete Susano'o that possesses the Yata's Mirror and the Blade of Totsuka.

 

[arv993]

inception i agree with u there is no proof that nagato can break out of it but no jutsu is absolute and if itachi's tsukiyomi was unbreakable why did he not use it on madara? I asked myself the question but there is nothing that really stopping him from doing it unless madara himself has some great power to cast away genjutsu since we don't kno all about him. Or he is the grandfather or great grandfather of itachi which if true i would lol xd.(very unlikely)

 

[khaydz5]

Clearly Kabuto captured Bee And Naruto. Itachi just saved them.

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And the Shinboi alliance are winning because their clearly outnumbered, and all of their techniques are getting revealed. And the Edo Tensei's are telling the Shinobi their secrets, so that they can beat them, the shinobi alliance is basically getting freebe's.

1.lol is that what you called captured?! are you out of your mind lol. that's what you called plot-no-jutsu dude. if that is called capture then pain also captured naruto.. so what are you trying to say now?

2.that's what im saying the fail part of kabuto. he's too dumb not to realize he needs to fully control the edos because if they can talk back they can give out infos.

The fact that he had his hands full with 2 Jinchuuriki and he managed to capture both of them in mere seconds as compared to Pain who fought a weaker Naruto 1 on 1 and could not capture him. I hope the blind ones in this thread see this difference I just stated. Kabuto had captured them, Itachi freed them both. Had it not been for Itachi, Naruto and Bee's souls would both be in Naraka Path.

And people claiming that since Bee broke out of Sasuke's Tsukiyomi, so can Nagato. Are you seriously this stupid? Bee is a Jinchuuriki, he has another set of mind to help him break free/ disrupt his chakra. Nagato is one person, one mind. If a genjutsu hit him, there would be no one to set him free as seen from his fight with Jiraiya. Sasuke's Tsukiyomi is NOTHING compared to Itachi. Danzo confirmed this, Tobi himself said this. Bee was caught in a normal genjutsu by Itachi lols.

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"My illusion jutsu "Tsukiyomi" cannot be beaten! Only a sharingan user with the same blood as me can defeat me..."

He's talking about his Tsukiyomi. S.T.F.U

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3 days in a second, his Tsukiyomi will take effect as soon as it hits.

Also, the Susano'o that Danzo blew away, Raikage punched through and Mei melted was incomplete. Itachi mastered the Susano'o and so has Sasuke now. You can't compare an incomplete version of Susano'o to Itachi's complete Susano'o that possesses the Yata's Mirror and the Blade of Totsuka.

if you're itachi is that oh so powerful, why he did not kill madara in the first place? why do he need to use sasuke to kill madara for him and only to fail when he died?lol. I think your itachi is talking BS here.

and if you consider itachi's complement for himself as fact then you should also consider this and its game over for you itachi fans::

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LOL!!!!!

 

[Inception]

inception i agree with u there is no proof that nagato can break out of it but no jutsu is absolute and if itachi's tsukiyomi was unbreakable why did he not use it on madara? I asked myself the question but there is nothing that really stopping him from doing it unless madara himself has some great power to cast away genjutsu since we don't kno all about him. Or he is the grandfather or great grandfather of itachi which if true i would lol xd.(very unlikely)

If Tobi really is Madara, then he shares the same blood as Itachi (Uchiha blood). Amaterasu was a better choice of weapon against Madara. Anyhow, every technique has its weakness, even Itachi's Tsukiyomi, just as Chibaku Tensei did.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

If Tobi really is Madara, then he shares the same blood as Itachi (Uchiha blood). Amaterasu was a better choice of weapon against Madara. Anyhow, every technique has its weakness, even Itachi's Tsukiyomi, just as Chibaku Tensei did.

i still think madara took over obitos body

 

[Inception]

1.lol is that what you called captured?! are you out of your mind lol. that's what you called plot-no-jutsu dude. if that is called capture then pain also captured naruto.. so what are you trying to say now?

Pls link me a chapter page where it shows Pain capturing Naruto. Pain came close but did not have him in his grasp. In the page linked above, Nagato clearly has both Bee and Naruto in his sleeves and Itachi interferes.

2.that's what im saying the fail part of kabuto. he's too dumb not to realize he needs to fully control the edos because if they can talk back they can give out infos.

Even he can't control all of the Edo Tensei summons at once. He did put them on auto pilot so I guess that's good enough .

Let me ask you this, if Nagato is so smart, why did he not use his Preta Path ability when he was alive? Did he like the anorexic look? Was he suicidal when he was alive?

 

[arv993]

Pls link me a chapter page where it shows Pain capturing Naruto. Pain came close but did not have him in his grasp. In the page linked above, Nagato clearly has both Bee and Naruto in his sleeves and Itachi interferes.



Even he can't control all of the Edo Tensei summons at once. He did put them on auto pilot so I guess that's good enough .

Let me ask you this, if Nagato is so smart, why did he not use his Preta Path ability when he was alive? Did he like the anorexic look? Was he suicidal when he was alive?

i agree kabuto is smart and he is taking on a whole army thus obviously he is gonna lose a lot of edos. But ur point about nagato using preta's ability to make him self complete again is called a plot hole not really that he is not bright cos kishi makes mistakes like most other mangas.i don't its actually an indication that he is not bright but however i do agree that he is not as smart as kabuto.

 

[kadowade]

1.lol is that what you called captured?! are you out of your mind lol. that's what you called plot-no-jutsu dude. if that is called capture then pain also captured naruto.. so what are you trying to say now?

2.that's what im saying the fail part of kabuto. he's too dumb not to realize he needs to fully control the edos because if they can talk back they can give out infos.



if you're itachi is that oh so powerful, why he did not kill madara in the first place? why do he need to use sasuke to kill madara for him and only to fail when he died?lol. I think your itachi is talking BS here.

and if you consider itachi's complement for himself as fact then you should also consider this and its game over for you itachi fans::

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LOL!!!!!

Madara would've been too much of an hassle for Itachi. Remember Even ITachi said only an Uchiha can defeat him. So Madara is a perfect Counter for Itachi. Plus Madara knew more about Itachi, than What Itachi knew about him, so itachi was at an disadvantage.

Itachi only gave sasuke Amaterasu, so that MAdara wouldn't tell sasuke the truth.

But too bad Itachi didn't know more about Madara. Even Madara said, "If he had known about me, he would've killed me".

@ Your link) Too bad your so called "GOD", got deafeated twice.