[Theory] Itachi is stronger than Nagato

[Hitoshi]

you always leave stuff out like the massive cloud blocking nagatos view and his inner struggle with kabuto
itachis susanoo and his blade are so over rated your main arguement is that he would just seal him but Nagato controlling a dead body dodged the 9 tails attacks and captured it.im just stating facts.Could itachi do what Nagato has done? No he could not destroy konoha by himself and he could not capture the 9 tails by himself.Susanoo is pure chakra and its sword is at best medium speed i have seen it in the anime it looked a bit sluggish when he stabbed oro he had to lean back open his eyes then stab.Nagato has a lot of techs that would take out suanoo he could asorb its chakra,throw it around with divine attraction,shinra tensei would slow it down and celestial tera sphere would obviously suck up its chakra then itachi by himself.for the person complaining about Nagato being under the edo tensei conditions you are ignorant because itachi is under edo tensei conditions too and also this crap about without absorbing bee and narutos chakra he wouldnt be able to walk without edo tensei itachi would barely be able to see so there you go

could itachi destroy konoha that's a stupid ass question if your anybody that reads Naruto then you'd know itachi you would know he wouldn't wanna destroy konoha could he capture the nine tails most definitely and if i remember correctly there were 6 pains that destroyed konoha don't try to pull that crap do you think if pain went alone without the dead bodies he was controlling u think he would win? naw he wouldn't have that's why his ass was sitting in the back controlling dead bodies why BC like itachi nagato was sick. then as u say he has alot of techniques that could stop susanoo oh yeah where was that shit when he got hit by the sword yea thats right he knew susanoo was out planetary destruction was one of nagato top two attacks so yeah would could he have possible done after that oh yeah get hit by a sealing sword n never come back so let me ask the nagato fans out there is nagato coming back the answer is hell no if you know anything remember history is written by the victor in this case itachi the victor thats facts nagato is one of my fav and all but ppl are overrating him bc he destroyed the hidden leaf village its like really oro destroyed the hidden leaf village and killed the hokage why u not his nuts as well bc ur fanboys who dont listen to reason n you come back with the lamest n i mean lamest excuses even i coul do better then most ppl posting about nagato just saying

 

[lubricati0n]

could itachi destroy konoha that's a stupid ass question if your anybody that reads Naruto then you'd know itachi you would know he wouldn't wanna destroy konoha could he capture the nine tails most definitely and if i remember correctly there were 6 pains that destroyed konoha don't try to pull that crap do you think if pain went alone without the dead bodies he was controlling u think he would win? naw he wouldn't have that's why his ass was sitting in the back controlling dead bodies why BC like itachi nagato was sick. then as u say he has alot of techniques that could stop susanoo oh yeah where was that shit when he got hit by the sword yea thats right he knew susanoo was out planetary destruction was one of nagato top two attacks so yeah would could he have possible done after that oh yeah get hit by a sealing sword n never come back so let me ask the nagato fans out there is nagato coming back the answer is hell no if you know anything remember history is written by the victor in this case itachi the victor thats facts nagato is one of my fav and all but ppl are overrating him bc he destroyed the hidden leaf village its like really oro destroyed the hidden leaf village and killed the hokage why u not his nuts as well bc ur fanboys who dont listen to reason n you come back with the lamest n i mean lamest excuses even i coul do better then most ppl posting about nagato just saying

Stop denying the facts.

1)Pein used 6 bodies so he could find Naruto. If he wanted to destroy Konoha he could've taken himself there to do it and Shinra Tensei'd whilst Konan watched over him.

2)Duh Nagato got hit by the sword. He was surprised by Chibaku Tenseis core was being destroyed so easily. He does have a lot of techniques to stop Susano'o such as Preta paths absorption.

3)You sir, are an Itachi Fanatic.

 

[arv993]

you always leave stuff out like the massive cloud blocking nagatos view and his inner struggle with kabuto
itachis susanoo and his blade are so over rated your main arguement is that he would just seal him but Nagato controlling a dead body dodged the 9 tails attacks and captured it.im just stating facts.Could itachi do what Nagato has done? No he could not destroy konoha by himself and he could not capture the 9 tails by himself.Susanoo is pure chakra and its sword is at best medium speed i have seen it in the anime it looked a bit sluggish when he stabbed oro he had to lean back open his eyes then stab.Nagato has a lot of techs that would take out suanoo he could asorb its chakra,throw it around with divine attraction,shinra tensei would slow it down and celestial tera sphere would obviously suck up its chakra then itachi by himself.for the person complaining about Nagato being under the edo tensei conditions you are ignorant because itachi is under edo tensei conditions too and also this crap about without absorbing bee and narutos chakra he wouldnt be able to walk without edo tensei itachi would barely be able to see so there you go

a massive cloud that is nothing that should stop rinnegan(greatest dojutsu) from seeing a huge chakra warrior like the susano, it just that nagato did not even notice the sword which was fast becos he had no time to react. Throw the susano around, no he can pull or push not throw things around. nagato has to be close to absorb susano which would make itachi use his sword. and where the hell did u get the inner struggle from we don't kno that so stop making up stuff like that just accept the fact that he got hit by the sword. the reason nagato had an advantage with edo while Itachi did not is becos nagato got hurt twice where his arms burned once and the other time blew up , in a real fight he would not be able to instantaneously heal like that so that is a major advantage cos it let him use his techs.

 

[arv993]

Stop denying the facts.

1)Pein used 6 bodies so he could find Naruto. If he wanted to destroy Konoha he could've taken himself there to do it and Shinra Tensei'd whilst Konan watched over him.

2)Duh Nagato got hit by the sword. He was surprised by Chibaku Tenseis core was being destroyed so easily. He does have a lot of techniques to stop Susano'o such as Preta paths absorption.

3)You sir, are an Itachi Fanatic.

pein could not have destroyed konoha when strong ppl where actually there, the only strong person there at that time was kakashi. Ppl like naruto, danzo and his anbu squads and guy were not there. he was basically destroying a village without its strongest ppl.

And u should face the facts he got hit by the sword and had no time to react within a moment he was hit and sealed.

 

[Izanami]

could itachi destroy konoha that's a stupid ass question if your anybody that reads Naruto then you'd know itachi you would know he wouldn't wanna destroy konoha could he capture the nine tails most definitely and if i remember correctly there were 6 pains that destroyed konoha don't try to pull that crap do you think if pain went alone without the dead bodies he was controlling u think he would win? naw he wouldn't have that's why his ass was sitting in the back controlling dead bodies why BC like itachi nagato was sick. then as u say he has alot of techniques that could stop susanoo oh yeah where was that shit when he got hit by the sword yea thats right he knew susanoo was out planetary destruction was one of nagato top two attacks so yeah would could he have possible done after that oh yeah get hit by a sealing sword n never come back so let me ask the nagato fans out there is nagato coming back the answer is hell no if you know anything remember history is written by the victor in this case itachi the victor thats facts nagato is one of my fav and all but ppl are overrating him bc he destroyed the hidden leaf village its like really oro destroyed the hidden leaf village and killed the hokage why u not his nuts as well bc ur fanboys who dont listen to reason n you come back with the lamest n i mean lamest excuses even i coul do better then most ppl posting about nagato just saying

you have just proven that you know nothing about itachi how would he destroy konoha with suanoo lol?
capture the 9 tails? get real
oro didnt destroy the hidden leaf stfu lol

 

[chidinma]

Nagato is pretty strong, considering it took 3 ninja to take him down. Though it seems that Kishi keeps revealing something new about Itachi's powers. It's really unfair to say since Kabuto had control of him, just as much as Itachi keeps suprising us with something new =) I'm on the fence with this one >.<

I'm with u on this one....

 

[Izanami]

a massive cloud that is nothing that should stop rinnegan(greatest dojutsu) from seeing a huge chakra warrior like the susano, it just that nagato did not even notice the sword which was fast becos he had no time to react. Throw the susano around, no he can pull or push not throw things around. nagato has to be close to absorb susano which would make itachi use his sword. and where the hell did u get the inner struggle from we don't kno that so stop making up stuff like that just accept the fact that he got hit by the sword. the reason nagato had an advantage with edo while Itachi did not is becos nagato got hurt twice where his arms burned once and the other time blew up , in a real fight he would not be able to instantaneously heal like that so that is a major advantage cos it let him use his techs.

right look in a 1v1 they would be facing each other when he hit him with amateseru he was behind nagato because they were in a 2v2,he was foccused on the tailed beasts from kabuto dont twist that and say this is why he would of won in a 1v1 because your wrong as usual.The shield deflects but divine attration pulls ,Nagato didnt notice how fast the sword is ? get real your a sad itachi ball sucker

 

[arv993]

right look in a 1v1 they would be facing each other when he hit him with amateseru he was behind nagato because they were in a 2v2,he was foccused on the tailed beasts from kabuto dont twist that and say this is why he would of won in a 1v1 because your wrong as usual.The shield deflects but divine attration pulls ,Nagato didnt notice how fast the sword is ? get real your a sad itachi ball sucker

i am not twisting crap i just said the edo was an advantage to nagato in his 3v1 he would not have been able to use his techs if it were not were not for that. You are the one always making up stuff like internal struggle with kabuto, the cloud blocked his view even though he has a rinnegan and stuff like the sword is sluggish when it actually got him fast and got nagato with him barely noticing like how oro did not even notice it. i am stating things as in the manga but idk what crap u r posting up. and divine attraction pulls but can be countered as how naruto did which was use his kyubi hand to stop him and itachi could do that or attack nagato directly with his sword since he is going towards him.

 

[Kira was Righteous]

havent you seen the 6 paths of pain in the pain arc? thats another thing as well if were talking about at there very best then Nagato would have his 6 paths as well and the 6 paths by themselves would beat him and Nagato would beat itachi by himself.

 

[Avani]

Manga 552 is out and Kabuto says that Nagato still lacked mobility- legs not working properly that is permanatly damaged legs. So it was still a cripplled Nagato who was not really fighting till late and before that did nothing to weaken his opponants intentionally. while Itachi is cured and things worked out for him by chance.. whatever..

And it was Kabuto fighting not Nagato as he says himself that that he(kabuto) could not dodge Itachi's tech:

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So can we get this particular debate a rest? We have only glimpse of the techs of Itachi and Nagato but notn the real data of Nagato's personal capabilities in this fight.

 

[ReLax -]

And it was Kabuto fighting not Nagato as he says himself that that he(kabuto) could not dodge Itachi's tech:

You must be registered for see links

So can we get this particular debate a rest? We have only glimpse of the techs of Itachi and Nagato but notn the real data of Nagato's personal capabilities in this fight.

You are correct but we seen most of Nagato capabilities but just a few minor ones were missing. I will ask you as I have asked others, When have we seen Uchiha Itachi in a serious battle? or in one on his own (fighting to survive/win/kill battle)? You cannot jump to conclusion because you seen what one man was capable of doing when you haven't seen the other at his best.

If you read my brick wall post I had put about 9-10 pages ago would make more sense, since I have tried to explain a lot in there.

 

[PEIN is the answer]

pein could not have destroyed konoha when strong ppl where actually there, the only strong person there at that time was kakashi. Ppl like naruto, danzo and his anbu squads and guy were not there. he was basically destroying a village without its strongest ppl.

And u should face the facts he got hit by the sword and had no time to react within a moment he was hit and sealed.

Ya kakashi was there the strongest leaf ninja he got work by 2 paths and he had the chojis helping him

 

[ClanKiller]

I have always thought that , even madara at one point said Itachi could have killed him while at the same time madara was easily manipulating Nagato/pain. & actually THREE people took down his tech , only one of them took down nagato at the end , he fell to Itachi's awsome magical ghost sword.

Not to mention Itachi by himself blinded Nagato's summonings leaving only his own field of vision which made a BIG difference leaving the opening where Itachi's sword came in.

The End Itachi Won -.-

 

[ReLax -]

I have always thought that , even madara at one point said Itachi could have killed him while at the same time madara was easily manipulating Nagato/pain. & actually THREE people took down his tech , only one of them took down nagato at the end , he fell to Itachi's awsome magical ghost sword.

Yes, after the Amaterasu fail on Tobi. He indicated that he had hid somethings from Itachi, if Itachi knew he would have been dead. It's safe to say he survived the Amaterasu using Izanagi, so if Itachi knew maybe he would have found out a weakness as he has said in recent chapter, "Every tech. has it's weakness.' Which would be goodbye Tobi/Madara.

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

a massive cloud that is nothing that should stop rinnegan(greatest dojutsu) from seeing a huge chakra warrior like the susano, it just that nagato did not even notice the sword which was fast becos he had no time to react. Throw the susano around, no he can pull or push not throw things around. nagato has to be close to absorb susano which would make itachi use his sword. and where the hell did u get the inner struggle from we don't kno that so stop making up stuff like that just accept the fact that he got hit by the sword. the reason nagato had an advantage with edo while Itachi did not is becos nagato got hurt twice where his arms burned once and the other time blew up , in a real fight he would not be able to instantaneously heal like that so that is a major advantage cos it let him use his techs.

Naruto used smoke bombs to overcome the rinnegans field of vision when he fought him in konoha. They AREN'T X-RAY eyes. If they were Pain wouldn't have wondered where his summoning body and Naruto went when gamabunta had them in his mouth. Just because his eyes are "the greatest dojutsu" doesn't mean they have no weaknesses. there are two references i've given you there of his sight being blocked, once WITH SMOKE BOMBS!!! Obviously that smoke cloud COULD HAVE obscured his vision.

 

[Avani]

You are correct but we seen most of Nagato capabilities but just a few minor ones were missing. I will ask you as I have asked others, When have we seen Uchiha Itachi in a serious battle? or in one on his own (fighting to survive/win/kill battle)? You cannot jump to conclusion because you seen what one man was capable of doing when you haven't seen the other at his best.

If you read my brick wall post I had put about 9-10 pages ago would make more sense, since I have tried to explain a lot in there.

I have been saying since the start- before Itachi and Nagato even battlled that it won't be a realy fight. We just found out answer to a few questions that how Nagato would fight if he was not using dead bodies. now we know his capabilites and limits this way and his reason for using deads. Otherwisse Kishi had already dropped the hint that he never lost a single battle and that he could use all kinds of jutsu and all elements since age 10..:shrug:

It's pointless to compare under circumstances as both the parties didn't want to fight and Nagato certainly isn't much for taking initiateve. I quote my previous post somewhere.

Let's not forget that It was power of two strong jinchurikies- 8 and 9 tails along with Itachi which was used to break chibaku Tensie+ Naruto's prior experience came handy.

Secondly Itachi didn't have to fight all through the battle and Nagato was fighting three of them while they used their most powerfull but, last aces.

Thirdly, Nagato was under Kabuto' control while fighting- so in the start he didn't do anything to really restrain or tire out or weaken his opponanats even remotely if he could help it. He in fact kept giving them warnings and helped out if he could. He was kind of outsider to Naruto's circle and had no connection to others except for Naruto himself and on friendly terms with Itachi- both personal relations as shinobi.

Under circumstance, no wonder, he had no plans to help out Konoha in case of emergencies and what not. It was not his concern like Itachi. He had already done his bit for Konoha for the sake of Jiraiya and Naruto, at a great personal cost. As it is, it was just chance that Itachi had passed on the crow to Naruto.

Nagato was looking at the destroyed chibaku tensie when Itachi used the sealing sword on him and Kabuto's control was broken around the same time. This particular battle was thus won by Itachi but, it wasn't exactly Nagato who was defeated. It was Kabuto who is reapeatedly failing with his edos- he is the one who seems to have bitten more than he can chew.

Nagato never really used his full skills- we just got a glimpse of what he was capable of and how much talent was wasted with the death of both Itachi and Nagato. If he wanted he might have tired out and stolen all the energy of all three long before they could have done anything. He was taking support of Itachi all night long to walk while he could just suck his chakra and become strong..

 

[YIN YANG]

i am not twisting crap i just said the edo was an advantage to nagato in his 3v1 he would not have been able to use his techs if it were not were not for that. You are the one always making up stuff like internal struggle with kabuto, the cloud blocked his view even though he has a rinnegan and stuff like the sword is sluggish when it actually got him fast and got nagato with him barely noticing like how oro did not even notice it. i am stating things as in the manga but idk what crap u r posting up. and divine attraction pulls but can be countered as how naruto did which was use his kyubi hand to stop him and itachi could do that or attack nagato directly with his sword since he is going towards him.

idk why you guys want to believe that nagato couldn't dodge the sword, nagato reached his senses and wanted to be sealed by itachi and wanted say his last words he could've easily did shinrai tensa on itachi but didn't because he resisted in his final moments.
i also hope that you guys relized that susanno was coming up because gravity was controlling susanno so if you guys are still gonna say shinra tensa can't do anything to susanno you're clearly wrong.
naruto kyubi hands is extremly powerful force and opposed that little shinra tensai force from nagato
idk how itachi can dodge it susanno is not enough to oppose it.

 

[MuDfAcToRy25]

idk why you guys want to believe that nagato couldn't dodge the sword, nagato reached his senses and wanted to be sealed by itachi and wanted say his last words he could've easily did shinrai tensa on itachi but didn't because he resisted in his final moments.
i also hope that you guys relized that susanno was coming up because gravity was controlling susanno so if you guys are still gonna say shinra tensa can't do anything to susanno you're clearly wrong.
naruto kyubi hands is extremly powerful force and opposed that little shinra tensai force from nagato
idk how itachi can dodge it susanno is not enough to oppose it.

Mad Rep+ for pointing out the effects of chibaku tensei on susano'o to prove shinra tensei would work i cant believe i never thought of that!

 

[ReLax -]

I have been saying since the start- before Itachi and Nagato even battlled that it won't be a realy fight. We just found out answer to a few questions that how Nagato would fight if he was not using dead bodies. now we know his capabilites and limits this way and his reason for using deads. Otherwisse Kishi had already dropped the hint that he never lost a single battle and that he could use all kinds of jutsu and all elements since age 10..:shrug:

It's pointless to compare under circumstances as both the parties didn't want to fight and Nagato certainly isn't much for taking initiateve. I quote my previous post somewhere.

Yes, I have said that in my previous post also that it wouldn't but the Itachi/Nagato fans just considered it to be the real thing. As far as I recall it was never stated that Itachi lost a battle either him and Nagato went thru the same defeat if you want to look at it that way. In the future it will be said Naruto beat Nagato/Pein despite the fact all the help/intell he had and same goes with Itachi with Sasuke being the one who stopped him.

I'll re quote my post long but oh well

I have tried very hard to restrain myself from this topic but the amount of stupidity (one line sentence or made up things) I have read from both arguments has forced me to here. I don't mean everyone in here as people who at least put some detail into why they think Nagato would win or Itachi would win weren't bad to read but somewhere a bit off.

I know from my name it seems I'm a huge Itachi fan which I am but Nagato and Minato are on that list also (which I know they are all most talked chars). The reason for the user name is due to most I put in were taken (Sage-Pein, Yellowflash, Genflash), so I put this in and went thru so I could care less if anyone points me out to be a fan boy.:flaw:

As far as we speak of this 3 v 1 is just ridiculous, it wasn't considered a battle among both Itachi and Nagato. The thing with this is Nagato tried capturing Naruto and bee, while Itachi tried saving them. If you look at it that way Itachi succeed saving them from Chibaku Tensei with all three using there strongest attack but Itachi sealed Nagato at the end that is it. I think a lot of people don't give credit where it should be given, I mean how quick did Itachi figure out Chibaku Tensei weakness which is considered one of Nagato's strongest attacks? If people open there imagination and if Itachi beat Nagato in a 1v1, all Nagato fans would be fuming and arguing about how Nagato wasn't at full strength or was under Edo so either way there is no winner.

I see a lot of people stating Nagato being the strongest because it supposedly took 3 people to take him out. I say we open up the imagination again and switch Nagato with Itachi, so in other words Nagato escaped Edo and Itachi didn't. It's safe to assume if that was to happen than Kabuto would take away Itachi's emotions and activate Susanoo with the Spiritual sword and shield. It would end up taking three of them to fight him off due to the fact Naruto and Bee are more close combat fighters with the sword that won't happen so Nagato (since he knows a lot about Itachi's tech) or someone there would need to figure out how to defeat him. So now would that make Itachi the strongest in manga?

It also came to my mind were people assume one attack can't take out Chibaku Tensei. I don't recall reading in the manga that one attack would work or it wouldn't. Here's an example of why Itachi got Naruto and Bee to use there tech's, In football (soccer in some places) when a striker is going for net would the two defenders just back off? so the goalie makes the save or at least tries? no they would try to stop that striker in order to win. This is were the three tech's comes in Itachi wasn't just gonna use his tech why not get Naruto and Bee also as they all were present there would stand a bigger chance in ending everything. Even if one tech was used if it did or didn't destroy Chibaku Tensei, Nagato would have been wary and done something.

I was very glad to see Nagato once more as well as Itachi and very pleased to hear that Nagato was actually much stronger/faster than we seen him in the past. I wish in his case there was a better ending so most Nagato fans can be happy with it but sadly even I wasn't too happy with how Kishi ended him but we may see something next chap? hopefully? just before his sealing ends.

Also to all those Nagato fan boys you continuously point out Itachi fan boys but you are no less than itachi fan boys either (ranked in the same cata). You believe Nagato can beat anyone as most Itachi fans believe that also for Itachi. Itachi fan's do come in and put one line sentence like Genjutsu, Sasuno'o, Amaterasu, MS and etc. The Nagato fan boys also continuously say Nagato would win with Shinra Tensei, Chibaku Tensei, Rinnegan, 6 bodies, or etc. We all know one attack won't finish off a battle especially with top rank shinobi, it's like saying Sasuke will win becuase of Kirin, genjutsu, Susano'o or even Amaterasu and Naruto would win with resengan, the cloak, kyuubi or so on. So, please fan boys come from both sides and the fact is no one will listen.

I've also read in this topic and others the just because Itachi didn't use genjutsu, Nagato is all of a sudden immune to it? So, Nagato, Naruto, Bee and Itachi didn't use many attacks lets all of a sudden assume they are all immune to it * sarcasm*. Tobi did state that Rinnegan is superior but it doesn't mean, he won't be affected by genjutsu. I mean Kurenai was very good at using genjutsu by Itachi still manged to flip her genjutsu on her and than Kakashi with a sharingan thinking he can match toe to toe was pretty much owned, Sasuke was young but he was even under genjutsu, till the end. So, no evidence, no case here.

What people fail to realize here is when have we even seen Itachi at his best? where have we seen Itachi fight to survive/kill? Itachi mastered the sharingan at a young age, he became a anbu captain at age 13 (this is like having a 13 year old being a commander of an army or captain of a huge sports team), his battled with Deidara ended before it began, Oro being a genius was also a victim of a regular Sharingan, Kurenai/Kakashi were out match and would have been destroyed by Itachi if it wasn't for them being Konoho shinobi's, Jiriaya stated that no one has escaped the belly of the toad when he caught Itachi and Kisame but yet Itachi got out a long with Kisame, 30% Itachi encountered Chiyo/Sakura/Naruto/Kakashi even tho Chiyo and Sakura just helped Naruto a little to get out of the genjutsu (which was just a regular sharingan) it took them (Naruto, Kakashi) to defeat Itachi even all he was doing is stalling time and not even trying to kill (Yes, I do realize Naruto and Kakashi are beyond that lvl now), and the closet to a battle we seen was Itachi VS Sasuke but even than he wasn't serious as he planned to let Sasuke kill him but he still out lasted Sasuke even tho he wasn't at a 100% and his eyesight was done, Sasuke was out of chakra even tho Itachi had MS activate the whole match and managed to seal Oro away (the reason why the battle last long he needed Sasuke to ran out of chakra for him to seal Oro or else Sasuke would have been in trouble). So, if anyone has seen a legit battle than please let me know.

If you remember correctly what did Tobi state after the Amaterasu fail attempt? He said, "There was a few things I hid from Itachi, if not for that I would have been dead." So, Tobi here is pretty much saying if Itachi knew about Izanagi (as it is safe to say that was one thing he hid from Itachi and how he survived against the Amaterasu attack) he would have been able to kill him. Itachi figuring out how to defeat an Izanagi user and while he's dead able to activate a plan, could have still stood a chance on killing Tobi. Itachi intelligence itself being a deadly weapon.

IMO between Nagato VS Itachi, I have no conclusion as to both are great in there own standings and assuming a victor here without full knowledge is pathetic. So, it's a draw or a battle that won't end and I can give F what anyone thinks about my opinion.

So, please quit degrading both Nagato and Itachi's character and move on. I typed a brick wall so there maybe mistakes feel free to add, flame (as usually), or correct me.

 

[Avani]

Yes, I have said that in my previous post also that it wouldn't but the Itachi/Nagato fans just considered it to be the real thing. As far as I recall it was never stated that Itachi lost a battle either him and Nagato went thru the same defeat if you want to look at it that way. In the future it will be said Naruto beat Nagato/Pein despite the fact all the help/intell he had and same goes with Itachi with Sasuke being the one who stopped him.

I'll re quote my post long but oh well

.. .. my post I quoted above was not my original post. I copy pasted it in a couple of threads because I was sick of sudden deluge of Itachi threads at NB.