Time Frame/First move Rule

[Shade Dracova]

You're wrong because that makes no sense what so ever..
First turn: B-rank lightning --> <--- B rank Wind
Next turn: B-rank lightning -> C-rank fire ---> <--B-rank Wind.

How'd the fire get ahead of the lightning? o_o

Well not those elements exactly that was just off the toop of my head for get it

 

[Mugiwara]

Well not those elements exactly that was just off the toop of my head for get it

It doesn't matter what elements it is.
Think of a train track, with two trains heading out of a tunnels one each sides, towards each other, how can a new train suddenly appear in front of one of the trains out of nowhere?

Maybe you're thinking that pillar of flame, where you create a tunnel and shoot fire into it, and make the wind clash with the pillar, while the lightning continues, but that wouldn't work either, since the fire still wouldn't travel as fast as the lightning, theres no way it would be able to appear in front of the lightning, or any other element.

 

[Shade Dracova]

It doesn't matter what elements it is.
Think of a train track, with two trains heading out of a tunnels one each sides, towards each other, how can a new train suddenly appear in front of one of the trains out of nowhere?

Maybe you're thinking that pillar of flame, where you create a tunnel and shoot fire into it, and make the wind clash with the pillar, while the lightning continues, but that wouldn't work either, since the fire still wouldn't travel as fast as the lightning, theres no way it would be able to appear in front of the lightning, or any other element.

thank you i get it now

 

[~Deidara~]

Yes, the rule is simply to prevent people from doing this:
Ninja one is performing handseals and starts shooting a fireball at ninja two.
Ninja two does one handseal and makes spikes erupt under ninja one before he can finish his handseals and perform the fireball.
By doing this, ninja two cancels out ninja ones whole move, even though it was Ninja one that was going to move first.
This applies to first jutsu of every move, if the opponent doesn't perform a jutsu, but instead does some other action, it applies the same way, if the opponents first thing is to jump, you cannot prevent him from jumping by doing a jutsu before he jumps up.


So the rule says, that Ninja two's first jutsu cannot finish before ninja ones first jutsu, (first jutsu means the first action of every turn).

Been similar examples in the past, where people use a technique that stops the opponent from summoning animals, whatever.
Ninja one performs Summoning technique.
Ninja two slams the ground before Ninja one, cancelling his summon.

There Ninja two breaks the time-frame rule, being that he cancelled out the opponents move, and prevented him from doing his first technique, even though he was starting first.

I hope that is very clear.

If Ninja one throws a shuriken, and then does another jutsu, the shuriken counts as his first technique, so that means that ninja two can perform some spike jutsu that makes spikes appear under ninja one as he is about to perform the "another jutsu", right after he has thrown his shuriken.

You don't have to wait till the opponent is finished doing his move, but you need to wait till he is executing it. For example, some jutsus where a ninja is shooting out a stream of fire, as long as your technique is starting to execute 0.5 seconds after his, it's valid. For example, both of the ninjas can perform the handseals at the same time, but ninja one starts shooting a stream of fire BEFORE ninja two, even if its a split second before.

Mugi, you made it so clear. Awesome job!

 

[black uchiha]

Being that this started with me, I guess I better weigh in on it. First off this is where I got my info from

You must be registered for see links

I also posted it in the Q&A thread and revived feedback that it was true

Next after reading the posts it seems that the question at hand is being misconstrued....as we all (I think) are pretty much aware of the time frame rule in general, but the question at hand is about the start of the match. If ninja 1 has the first move, but does not make an aggressive act/move (like running away, sitting...etc), is ninja 2 allowed to attack ninja 1(being that ninja 1 hasn't started his attack) ?

Now that the question is plain to all, can we get a collective answer from the higher ups, as I have revived different answers from different sensais...not that it matters as I'm sure no one wants to win like that, myself included...I was messing/joking around with the rules in that fight to get nin/gen training, if I won. So that's how/why I came up with it (jounin vs a sage....lol needed a upper hand)

 

[Typhon]

I would say he is definitely allowed to attack. The whole point of the time frame rule is to help keep the battles realistic. If my opponent has first move and decides to run in circles instead of attack, I'm not going to just sit there with my thumb up my butt waiting for him to attack.

 

[black uchiha]

I would say he is definitely allowed to attack. The whole point of the time frame rule is to help keep the battles realistic. If my opponent has first move and decides to run in circles instead of attack, I'm not going to just sit there with my thumb up my butt waiting for him to attack.

Lol I see your point

 

[Mugiwara]

Being that this started with me, I guess I better weigh in on it. First off this is where I got my info from

You must be registered for see links

I also posted it in the Q&A thread and revived feedback that it was true

Next after reading the posts it seems that the question at hand is being misconstrued....as we all (I think) are pretty much aware of the time frame rule in general, but the question at hand is about the start of the match. If ninja 1 has the first move, but does not make an aggressive act/move (like running away, sitting...etc), is ninja 2 allowed to attack ninja 1(being that ninja 1 hasn't started his attack) ?

Now that the question is plain to all, can we get a collective answer from the higher ups, as I have revived different answers from different sensais...not that it matters as I'm sure no one wants to win like that, myself included...I was messing/joking around with the rules in that fight to get nin/gen training, if I won. So that's how/why I came up with it (jounin vs a sage....lol needed a upper hand)

The rule still applies even if it's not offensive action. If he decides to put on gloves for his first move of the turn, the opponent is free to attack him, as long as he doesn't finish performing his attack before the ninja is done putting his gloves on. The opponent can perform the necessary handseals for the technique hes about to perform, but he cannot release it before the opponent has finished putting his gloves on.

 

[black uchiha]

The rule still applies even if it's not offensive action. If he decides to put on gloves for his first move of the turn, the opponent is free to attack him, as long as he doesn't finish performing his attack before the ninja is done putting his gloves on. The opponent can perform the necessary handseals for the technique hes about to perform, but he cannot release it before the opponent has finished putting his gloves on.

Ok got it, so yamato you may need to change your how to thread that was stickied.

 

[BlacKing]

<_<

Was someone looking at a recent fight of mine? lol.

Lets say

Ninja 1 - False Darkness Spear, then Great Dragon Fire and Banquet of Lightning.

Ninja 2 - Evades FDS, then Evades GDF and counters Banquet with Serial Waves.

Ninja 1 then posted that after I evaded FDS, he changed his move from GDF to something completely different when nothing was used to change it from happening?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that breaking the time frame rule?

Shouldnt Ninja 1 have to counter Serial Waves?

 

[Mugiwara]

<_<

Was someone looking at a recent fight of mine? lol.

Lets say

Ninja 1 - False Darkness Spear, then Great Dragon Fire and Banquet of Lightning.

Ninja 2 - Evades FDS, then Evades GDF and counters Banquet with Serial Waves.

Ninja 1 then posted that after I evaded FDS, he changed his move from GDF to something completely different when nothing was used to change it from happening?

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that breaking the time frame rule?

Shouldnt Ninja 1 have to counter Serial Waves?

Nah, sadly thats allowed and doesn't break the timeframe rule.
His original move, intention was that you get hit by FDS and then GDF and then Banquet. But since you already evaded FDS, you have already changed his intended time-frame, so he is allowed to stop his original time frame after you evade FDS and come up with a new one, posting new moves.

 

[BlacKing]

Nah, sadly thats allowed and doesn't break the timeframe rule.
His original move, intention was that you get hit by FDS and then GDF and then Banquet. But since you already evaded FDS, you have already changed his intended time-frame, so he is allowed to stop his original time frame after you evade FDS and come up with a new one, posting new moves.

Sigh. Thanks Mugi......

I understand.....I dont like it.......but I understand. lol.

Its like they are cancelling out everything I did. It defeats the purpose of evading them all.

 

[Mugiwara]

Sigh. Thanks Mugi......

I understand.....I dont like it.......but I understand. lol.

Its like they are cancelling out everything I did. It defeats the purpose of evading them all.

It didn't cancel out you evading the lightning.
As long as his next move doesn't interrupt you from evading the lightning move, it's valid.

 

[BlacKing]

Not the lightning but the others yes.

 

[Scary Yamato]

Ok got it, so yamato you may need to change your how to thread that was stickied.

that post was made 7 months ago and was what I determined to be appropriate at the time. If had known you guys were going to be so nitpicky then I probably would have spent a little more time rewording that section. That was my reasoning for adding the Q&A section. I'm still planning on making a full lesson on timeframe and have done a lot of work trying to iron out the details with the sensei's. That is why I wrote "This is part of the time frame rule and we will be having another discussion on this subject, because is the the couse of much controversy on NB."

It seems I was correct about that last bit. xd

I wish I could change it, but only mods can change it now since it has been so long.

 

[black uchiha]

that post was made 7 months ago and was what I determined to be appropriate at the time. If had known you guys were going to be so nitpicky then I probably would have spent a little more time rewording that section. That was my reasoning for adding the Q&A section. I'm still planning on making a full lesson on timeframe and have done a lot of work trying to iron out the details with the sensei's. That is why I wrote "This is part of the time frame rule and we will be having another discussion on this subject, because is the the couse of much controversy on NB."

It seems I was correct about that last bit. xd

I wish I could change it, but only mods can change it now since it has been so long.

Sorry don't misunderstand me I'm not trying to nitpick, in fact this thread is because of me as I was following your work (not blindly as other sensais agreed) so don't think I ment it like you didn't know what you were doing. I ment it like people like myself don't know what we're doing and see that and get another thread started about them...lol

But like I said I'm sure no one wants to win like that

 

[Scary Yamato]

Sorry don't misunderstand me I'm not trying to nitpick, in fact this thread is because of me as I was following your work (not blindly as other sensais agreed) so don't think I ment it like you didn't know what you were doing. I ment it like people like myself don't know what we're doing and see that and get another thread started about them...lol

But like I said I'm sure no one wants to win like that

you would be suprised what people do to try and get the win.

 

[black uchiha]

you would be suprised what people do to try and get the win.

Lol well I tried it just to get training in nin/gen but I was.just messing around. But I see your point