killer bee and naruto vs itachi and nagato

[Dratasy]

Well let's agree to disagree on a number of things then. First I believe that there are numerous ninja who would beat Hashirama in a fight. Hashirama and Madara fought over 80 years previous and who's to say he was stronger then? We have no proof that he could teleport or that this even is Madara we are dealing with now. Plus hashirama didn't really have to fight the kyuubi. His wood jutsu suppresses chakra, that gives him an automatic win over tailed beasts. How do you think he captured all those tailed beasts to give to other nations? So really he only fought Madara who didn't have the rinnegan, and who I seriously doubt had the ability to teleport. So far the only way we have seen to be able to counter Madara's teleport ability is extreme speed or teleportation. Neither of which Hashirama is reputed to have had. And he fought Madara one v. one supposedly so that makes it even more unlikely that Madara could use his space-time ninjutsu then.

Oh and here is the link so you can't misquote stuff anymore

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It says that he had respect on the same level as the Sannin, not that they were equals. One can be respected but be weak. Now I'm not saying he is weak but that quote about respect does not mean he was as strong as Jiraiya. So yes I will also believe that Jiraiya was much stronger than Kakashi's father.

If no proof is available then the best thing we can do is agree to what Kishi has gave us so far lol, until proven otherwise. <- Hashirama thing, also I've looked up the link already, what I said wasn't a misquote, it was simply an error. Go back and watch the anime episode and you'll see why I confused the two. In the anime, Minato clearly stated that White Fang was better than Sannin, however in the manga he said they were even. So don't go around saying it's a misquote if there is evidence at least somewhere that my quote is correct in some way, even if the manga is the correct version over the anime. Also like I said above, if there is no proof to Jiraiya actually being stronger, then you can't really say he is until Kishi proves otherwise, but you can have an opinion on it, that's completely fine. My opinion is Jiraiya was stronger too, but until it's really proven then I'm just going by what Kishi says and considering them equal, in the time that they were both alive anyways.

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

If no proof is available then the best thing we can do is agree to what Kishi has gave us so far lol, until proven otherwise. <- Hashirama thing, also I've looked up the link already, what I said wasn't a misquote, it was simply an error. Go back and watch the anime episode and you'll see why I confused the two. In the anime, Minato clearly stated that White Fang was better than Sannin, however in the manga he said they were even. So don't go around saying it's a misquote if there is evidence at least somewhere that my quote is correct in some way, even if the manga is the correct version over the anime. Also like I said above, if there is no proof to Jiraiya actually being stronger, then you can't really say he is until Kishi proves otherwise, but you can have an opinion on it, that's completely fine. My opinion is Jiraiya was stronger too, but until it's really proven then I'm just going by what Kishi says and considering them equal, in the time that they were both alive anyways.

Well then we have nothing left to talk about on the topic of Kakashi's father but I want you to discuss Hashirama and Madara with me. I'm not trying to be rude I actually want to talk about different ideas of Madara then and now. (If it is Madara now)

 

[DigitalMonster]

i started to think that jinchuurikis are slightly overrated

itachi and nagato,

 

[Abd100]

Itachi and nagato, if it's about killing

 

[Dratasy]

Well then we have nothing left to talk about on the topic of Kakashi's father but I want you to discuss Hashirama and Madara with me. I'm not trying to be rude I actually want to talk about different ideas of Madara then and now. (If it is Madara now)

Alright, which aspect of the fight so far that we know would you like to discuss? Also don't worry on the "not trying to be rude" thing lol, I don't take anything offensive, nor do I try to offend anyone, I just like discussing topics so that one either myself or someone else can learn something from it.

 

[Rami105]

I'm going with itachi and nagato i think that they are the strongest tag team ever if they would work together!

 

[idigit]

So in this list you have the White Fang stronger than Jiraiya O_O I don't understand can you rephrase it a bit.

I just watched Kakashi's Gaiden and Minato said that the white fang was a man that campared to him the title senin paled in comparison

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Alright, which aspect of the fight so far that we know would you like to discuss? Also don't worry on the "not trying to be rude" thing lol, I don't take anything offensive, nor do I try to offend anyone, I just like discussing topics so that one either myself or someone else can learn something from it.

Well when Madara fought Hashirama do you believe he had his ability to use space-time jutsu? Personally I don't see any way how he could have or if he did he didn't use it. I believe this because as we have seen so far the only way to really combat teleporting is to have space-time jutsu yourself or attack in numbers and wait until he rematerializes to hit someone. I don't know of any way that Hashirama could have beaten Madara if he could do that along with whatever other abilities he may have had. I think his EMS had similar abilities to Itachi and Sasuke's due to the fact that he knew alot about them even though there have only ever been 5 people to have MS. My thoughts were that he had those EMS abilities and then used Izanagi at the end of their fight after he had some Senju DNA to stay alive and thus lost at least one of his EMS. To me that makes sense since we have never seen him with EMS yet, only his 3-tomoe has been shown.

This is a theory of mine.

Spoiler

I don't think that Madara is Obito but I do believe that Madara's sharingan is from Obito, why else would Kishi perpetually refuse to show us his MS or EMS? I think it is like Kakashi's judging from the fact that their space-time jutsu looks exactly the same. Madara just takes it to a higher level than Kakashi.

 

[Dratasy]

Well when Madara fought Hashirama do you believe he had his ability to use space-time jutsu? Personally I don't see any way how he could have or if he did he didn't use it. I believe this because as we have seen so far the only way to really combat teleporting is to have space-time jutsu yourself or attack in numbers and wait until he rematerializes to hit someone. I don't know of any way that Hashirama could have beaten Madara if he could do that along with whatever other abilities he may have had. I think his EMS had similar abilities to Itachi and Sasuke's due to the fact that he knew alot about them even though there have only ever been 5 people to have MS. My thoughts were that he had those EMS abilities and then used Izanagi at the end of their fight after he had some Senju DNA to stay alive and thus lost at least one of his EMS. To me that makes sense since we have never seen him with EMS yet, only his 3-tomoe has been shown.

This is a theory of mine.

Spoiler

I don't think that Madara is Obito but I do believe that Madara's sharingan is from Obito, why else would Kishi perpetually refuse to show us his MS or EMS? I think it is like Kakashi's judging from the fact that their space-time jutsu looks exactly the same. Madara just takes it to a higher level than Kakashi.

Well for starters, we have no clue Hashirama's powers, he could have space-time jutsu as well, considering his brother Tobirama did, so there is always a chance that Madara has had his space-time technique since then and Hashirama has had it too, not gonna rule that out yet. I do believe the wood jutsu had played some part in it though to make it 10x easier for Hashirama when Madara used the fox on him, however I don't think it would have been easy to spend a lot of your chakra on focusing it towards the fox while also fighting off one of the most powerful ninja's known to the Naruto-Universe. I do not believe that Madara had Itachi's MS abilities, the fact he knows about them doesn't mean he had them, a lot of people know of the abilities mainly because Itachi was feared by many, and considering Madara always had a close eye on Itachi, it's no surprise he knew about his techniques. The only reason Sasuke has the same techniques is due to Itachi transferring them over to his eyes, as of right now, every MS we have seen has had a different ability on it's own, we'll only really know for sure if Madara and Izuna end up being shown using their abilities in a flashback.

^ Sorry for it being so long

Now on to the EMS thing, I don't really think Madara's eye has anything to do with Obito's, it's not like Obito was known to be an amazing ninja so why would Madara specifically go after his eye, also it was crushed under a rock, if Danzo can destroy a sharingan while it's in his own socket, then a huge boulder should do the trick. However Madara has a ton of eyes on a wall in his place so I wouldn't doubt it that he lost his EMS due to using Izanagi in a field-test practice or being forced to do it in battle (Not during Hashirama fight because he did not have his DNA so he couldn't have used it to escape from him) but later on, and now he has so many sharingan because he's probably tried a lot of them to see if he can restore his EMS or something. Is my theory anyways

 

[Kyuubikiller]

Naruto at his current level could take both of them out IMO.

 

[AbukariDogMan]

Chou shinra tensei + susanoo = 2 dead shinobi, bee might stand a chance though with his new absorbing powers.

 

[animeprince]

naruto and b would win because they both can control there beast and itachi and nagato were in poor health so therefor naruto and b would win :flaw:

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Well for starters, we have no clue Hashirama's powers, he could have space-time jutsu as well, considering his brother Tobirama did, so there is always a chance that Madara has had his space-time technique since then and Hashirama has had it too, not gonna rule that out yet. I do believe the wood jutsu had played some part in it though to make it 10x easier for Hashirama when Madara used the fox on him, however I don't think it would have been easy to spend a lot of your chakra on focusing it towards the fox while also fighting off one of the most powerful ninja's known to the Naruto-Universe. I do not believe that Madara had Itachi's MS abilities, the fact he knows about them doesn't mean he had them, a lot of people know of the abilities mainly because Itachi was feared by many, and considering Madara always had a close eye on Itachi, it's no surprise he knew about his techniques. The only reason Sasuke has the same techniques is due to Itachi transferring them over to his eyes, as of right now, every MS we have seen has had a different ability on it's own, we'll only really know for sure if Madara and Izuna end up being shown using their abilities in a flashback.

^ Sorry for it being so long

Now on to the EMS thing, I don't really think Madara's eye has anything to do with Obito's, it's not like Obito was known to be an amazing ninja so why would Madara specifically go after his eye, also it was crushed under a rock, if Danzo can destroy a sharingan while it's in his own socket, then a huge boulder should do the trick. However Madara has a ton of eyes on a wall in his place so I wouldn't doubt it that he lost his EMS due to using Izanagi in a field-test practice or being forced to do it in battle (Not during Hashirama fight because he did not have his DNA so he couldn't have used it to escape from him) but later on, and now he has so many sharingan because he's probably tried a lot of them to see if he can restore his EMS or something. Is my theory anyways

Well I really don't think Hashirama had any space-time ninjutsu. They would have mentioned it before, they always say thing like "His space-time jutsu has surpassed Tobirama's and even Minato's!". But they never mention Hashirama which leads me to conclude that either he didn't have it or that he wasn't as skilled with it as his brother. So while it is a possibility, the likelihood of him having any space-time jutsu that compared to Madara's or even the others' is extremely low.

Now I could be wrong but I've been reading from people's posts on here that the 9-tails was sealed into Hashirama's wife Mito during that battle. So the nine-tails wasn't really in play. Not to say that at least for a time he had to fend off both with his wood jutsu but he didn't have to fight both for long.

Also why would Madara have not used Hashirama's DNA in that battle? He had it afterwards so unless they came into contact after after they battled then he got it during the battle. And I just don't see a way Madara could have fooled Hashirama into thinking he was dead without Izanagi, I mean high level ninja aren't going to be tricked by a person just falling over and lying there. Also losing an EMS to Izanagi could have been the way he was made 'incomplete'. Just an idea.


About Madara's eye being connected to Kakashi's somehow, that was just a random theory I had because of their similar abilities and the fact that it was the only MS ability we have actually seen Madara use. If MS were all supposed to have different abilities then those eyes might be connected somehow, I know Madara can use it better but the techniques are too similar to just discount it entirely. Either way I'm pretty sure Madara doesn't have EMS right now, he at least lost one of his EMS eyes against Konan but I don't think he had it even before then. Now I'm not saying he specifically went after Obito's eye but he does stockpile eyes so he could have just tested out eyes and seen which MS abilities he liked better, it seems like a very Madara thing to do.

(My posts are usually long so don't worry about it.)

 

[pawan123]

killer bee Vs itachi - We canot say becauce we dont know the extent of power of bee and itachi
Ofcource Nagato will win ,naruto is till learning.

 

[Dratasy]

Well I really don't think Hashirama had any space-time ninjutsu. They would have mentioned it before, they always say thing like "His space-time jutsu has surpassed Tobirama's and even Minato's!". But they never mention Hashirama which leads me to conclude that either he didn't have it or that he wasn't as skilled with it as his brother. So while it is a possibility, the likelihood of him having any space-time jutsu that compared to Madara's or even the others' is extremely low.

Now I could be wrong but I've been reading from people's posts on here that the 9-tails was sealed into Hashirama's wife Mito during that battle. So the nine-tails wasn't really in play. Not to say that at least for a time he had to fend off both with his wood jutsu but he didn't have to fight both for long.

Also why would Madara have not used Hashirama's DNA in that battle? He had it afterwards so unless they came into contact after after they battled then he got it during the battle. And I just don't see a way Madara could have fooled Hashirama into thinking he was dead without Izanagi, I mean high level ninja aren't going to be tricked by a person just falling over and lying there. Also losing an EMS to Izanagi could have been the way he was made 'incomplete'. Just an idea.


About Madara's eye being connected to Kakashi's somehow, that was just a random theory I had because of their similar abilities and the fact that it was the only MS ability we have actually seen Madara use. If MS were all supposed to have different abilities then those eyes might be connected somehow, I know Madara can use it better but the techniques are too similar to just discount it entirely. Either way I'm pretty sure Madara doesn't have EMS right now, he at least lost one of his EMS eyes against Konan but I don't think he had it even before then. Now I'm not saying he specifically went after Obito's eye but he does stockpile eyes so he could have just tested out eyes and seen which MS abilities he liked better, it seems like a very Madara thing to do.

(My posts are usually long so don't worry about it.)

Never know, we didn't know of Tobirama until a lot of chapters later, we'll just have to wait and see. As for the Nine-Tails being sealed into his wife, I don't really think he'd have time to do that while also holding off Madara, unless you can link me to the chapter. As for the DNA thing, I'm pretty sure somewhere he said it took a while to actually have the DNA work with his body, I believe during the Konan fight, so it's not like the DNA would have worked right away, it takes a while for cells to get used to other cells. As for the MS thing, who knows lol


^ Sorry for a lame response,on Black Ops at the moment so hard to type and play lol

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Never know, we didn't know of Tobirama until a lot of chapters later, we'll just have to wait and see. As for the Nine-Tails being sealed into his wife, I don't really think he'd have time to do that while also holding off Madara, unless you can link me to the chapter. As for the DNA thing, I'm pretty sure somewhere he said it took a while to actually have the DNA work with his body, I believe during the Konan fight, so it's not like the DNA would have worked right away, it takes a while for cells to get used to other cells. As for the MS thing, who knows lol

Yeah I mean it is still a possibility that Hashirama could have had it but that seems like something they would have mentioned the other times when they were mentioning Tobirama's and when they listed the space-time users.

It would just make a lot more sense if he used to have different MS abilities and no longer has EMS. Then they could actually make sense of his being "incomplete" and not using anything other than that space-time jutsu.

 

[Dratasy]

Yeah, I think he lost his EMS due to Izanagi or something

 

[Dratasy]

Yeah I mean it is still a possibility that Hashirama could have had it but that seems like something they would have mentioned the other times when they were mentioning Tobirama's and when they listed the space-time users.

It would just make a lot more sense if he used to have different MS abilities and no longer has EMS. Then they could actually make sense of his being "incomplete" and not using anything other than that space-time jutsu.

Alright sorry, off Black Ops now lol. I'd agree on the Hashirama not having it if not for Kishi basically keeping all of his powers a secret from us, seems like he's doing it for a special surprise or something so who knows, he could have it and could not have it, we'll have to wait and see. As for the MS abilities, I don't really think his current space-time is anything related to MS, because I'm pretty sure it's shown his eye when he does it sometimes and it's still a normal sharingan, seems like it's just a move he may have gotten somewhere down the line, who knows it could be a move he learned when obtaining Hashirama's cells. I think he had EMS up until the first time he tested out Izanagi and then ultimately realized he can no longer have EMS after destroying the eyes that made it possible, as for the MS, maybe Izanagi has an effect on that as well.

 

[TJ0001]

itachi held back his power against sasuke and he was sick
nagato defeated naruto and had to keep him alive in order to seal him so nagato could of killed naruto. JUST PUTTING THESE THINGS OUT THERE
who would win all out battle.

Nagato did not defeat naruto....

 

[Lord Snow]

Nagato did not defeat naruto....

yes he did and hinata tried to save naruto and pain attacked her which let the nine tails power out. pain could of killed naruto but he had to keep him alive . WATCH THE ANIME OR READ THE MANGA AND U WILL SEE NARUTO DEFEATED ON THE FLOOR WITH THOSE CHAKARA RODS IN HIM