[Discussion] kishi still got his touch

[HamzaVeli]

Kishi likes 2 f*** with our head - loool - and hes good at it - - - -

 

[Mr.Beastie]

Would I like a little more action, or a little less action, you ask? Yes and No.

I would like a little more action with certain characters, but I don't mind a little less with some as well. This is probably how most people feel. If I like the character, I would like to see them more, if I don't like them, seeing them less is better.

If I had to pick one, short or long though? I would pick short. I am more interested in Tobi/Madara and Sasuke, then I am Hanzo, Gold & Silver brothers, etc. Though seeing those characters for a short bit, and learning some more history of those minor characters is cool, but I would prefer to learn more about Tobi/Madara, So6P, and that story line.

Dude learning about So6P only leads to more questions never answers. Also we only learned about hanzo's past we didnt see his fighting style.

 

[Mr.Beastie]

Kishi likes 2 f*** with our head - loool - and hes good at it - - - -

I agree big bro especially when sasuke my favorite character turned evil. As soon as I got done reading the part where he said he was gonna destroy konaha I knew everyone was going to hate him. Accept for me my favorite characters are always bad guys.

 

[-Haku Yuki-]

I dont understand why people try to say kishi has lost his touch or how they hate the series. I mean this is kishi's story not theirs. Ill admit the war matchups is predictible but it still is fun to read. Also some idiot complained about how naruto doesnt have realism well anyone who thinks that about anime needs to get a life. People please give kishi props for making naruto I doubt you could do a better job.

yay someone who agrees kishimotot has not lost his tough for beging a true fan unlike all the a holes who the say the awsome war sucks you get rep

 

[Revan]

I dont understand why people try to say kishi has lost his touch or how they hate the series. I mean this is kishi's story not theirs. Ill admit the war matchups is predictible but it still is fun to read. Also some idiot complained about how naruto doesnt have realism well anyone who thinks that about anime needs to get a life. People please give kishi props for making naruto I doubt you could do a better job.

i dont hate the series, i wouldnt read it if i hated it. i dont think that any of the critics hate it, that's why we criticize, because we care.

i just have the feeling that it's currently and slowly since shippuuden began becoming worse. i dont know weather that is just me or weather it's the story, but i loved naruto and to some extend till itachi's death shippuuden. i think it's about the characters, since the time skip and especially since itachi's death their character development either stagnated completely (side chars) or kishi absolutely overdid it (main chars).

i dont think that i could make a better manga. i could possibly write a story that matches the quality of his story, but his drawings are way ahead of mine, especially considering his speed. however, call me ignorant, but i am consumer, not producer. I'm not living from it and i dont care about competition. he on the other side is a pro in that genre and i'm obviously expecting him to be and of course compare him to other pros.

especially since the war arc, he is worse than many of them. if i was his editor i would suggest to him to take a month off and rethink his whole storyline. because momentarily i have the feeling that he either is in a spot where he doesnt want to be and currently doesnt really know how to get out of there, or loosing the feeling for the roots of his own story.

yay someone who agrees kishimotot has not lost his tough for beging a true fan unlike all the a holes who the say the awsome war sucks you get rep

i am a true fan, i'm just no fanatic. if somebody doesnt like how something important to him develops, i think it's his right to talk about that and i think his points through even if it's my favorite thing he's talking about.

edit: i think i killed another thread with a wall of text or am going to be ignored. bad habit xd

 

[Hipster Madara]

thank u for this, needed to be said

 

[Dissension]

Dude learning about So6P only leads to more questions never answers. Also we only learned about hanzo's past we didnt see his fighting style.

I believe that we learn the whole truth about the So6P, once the story focuses on Tobi/Madara.

I liked the history about Hanzo and Mifune. Like I said, the history some of those guys brings is cool, but I don't need to see them in drawn out battles.

Most of the complaints about Kishi losing his touch seem to come from people wanting the IWR ninja to get more air time, I personally don't believe they need it.

 

[Revan]

I believe that we learn the whole truth about the So6P, once the story focuses on Tobi/Madara.

I liked the history about Hanzo and Mifune. Like I said, the history some of those guys brings is cool, but I don't need to see them in drawn out battles.

Most of the complaints about Kishi losing his touch seem to come from people wanting the IWR ninja to get more air time, I personally don't believe they need it.

i want more time to develop the characters and not having the feeling that it's made sloppy. one flashback and like three attacks are just not enough to create a character.

the characters and their character trades have been what carried naruto before the time skip, but nowadays it's like seeing two guys fight who i have never seen before, who dont fight with something special and who are even more pale than bleach's side characters (who at least have one attribute instead of none). i absolutely dont care who wins. it's not even fancy, it's just plain boring. same goes for fake neji killing some medic nins. if it was the real neji and he had a reason to do that, it could be interesting, but it's just fake assassins against supernumeraries.

and I'm going to spoiler you: no important character will be killed during the fake zetsu-attack.

 

[KishiforPresident]

i agree with you man

 

[Dissension]

i want more time to develop the characters and not having the feeling that it's made sloppy. one flashback and like three attacks are just not enough to create a character.

the characters and their character trades have been what carried naruto before the time skip, but nowadays it's like seeing two guys fight who i have never seen before, who dont fight with something special and who are even more pale than bleach's side characters (who at least have one attribute instead of none). i absolutely dont care who wins. it's not even fancy, it's just plain boring. same goes for fake neji killing some medic nins. if it was the real neji and he had a reason to do that, it could be interesting, but it's just fake assassins against supernumeraries.

and I'm going to spoiler you: no important character will be killed during the fake zetsu-attack.

Kabuto has so far summoned 38 characters with IWR. Do we honestly need involved character development on all of them, if there hasn't really been any yet? They are minor characters for a reason, there won't be the any major character development of them, because they are minor.

If we see any character development of a minor character it is because they some how affect one of the bigger (not necessarily major) characters involved in the story (example; Mifune Vs Hanzo).

As far as the Zetsu stuff goes. I don't think I have ever said he would kill any major character, though I did hope he would kill Sakura.

 

[Revan]

Kabuto has so far summoned 38 characters with IWR. Do we honestly need involved character development on all of them, if there hasn't really been any yet? They are minor characters for a reason, there won't be the any major character development of them, because they are minor.

If we see any character development of a minor character it is because they some how affect one of the bigger (not necessarily major) characters involved in the story (example; Mifune Vs Hanzo).

As far as the Zetsu stuff goes. I don't think I have ever said he would kill any major character, though I did hope he would kill Sakura.

that doesnt change my point. why did he had to create these 38 characters if he isnt going to do anything with them anyway? now he has to summarize the death/sealing of 38 characters who dont interest anybody because they dont even get enough story to have any attitude. i cant bring in 40 characters as an author, announce it greatly in my manga and afterwards notice that i neither have time nor interest enough in them to let any of them get more than a few chapters. why did he introduce them in the first point anyway?

no you didnt. i just wanted to point out that it will go further with supernumeraries vs supernumeraries killing each other with one punch each. thats kinda sad for a manga that was so good in the beginning because every character had own attitudes and background story and even character development for every genin in the begining.

 

[Dissension]

that doesnt change my point. why did he had to create these 38 characters if he isnt going to do anything with them anyway? now he has to summarize the death/sealing of 38 characters who dont interest anybody because they dont even get enough story to have any attitude. i cant bring in 40 characters as an author, announce it greatly in my manga and afterwards notice that i neither have time nor interest enough in them to let any of them get more than a few chapters. why did he introduce them in the first point anyway?

no you didnt. i just wanted to point out that it will go further with supernumeraries vs supernumeraries killing each other with one punch each. thats kinda sad for a manga that was so good in the beginning because every character had own attitudes and background story and even character development for every genin in the begining.

Why summon so many? To show people that Kabuto is still around, and to not be taken lightly. To fill in some quick histroy? Honestly I don't know. But most people complaining are complaining about this.

Madara needs some time to do what he is doing, Sasuke needs time to heal. Do you really want to watch Neji, Shikamaru, etc, fight white Zetsu's? He probably figures bringing some older toons back would be a little cooler than that, even if he wipes them out quickly.

Also considering Kabuto can dismiss them anytime, there is no guarantee that all of them will be sealed during the war.

It also gives him lots of options as a writer.

 

[Universal Enlightenment]

It really doesn't matter. I wasn't impressed with Sora- he was no match with the real jinchuriki naruto, neither were kin gin brothers. All nine tail chakra did for them was to make them able to use those fancy fans and ropes and pots etc and their purpose was to replace Naruto in Gedo mezo. I doubt without those weapons they were much of opponants on their own.

Citing Pain arc is ridiculous. Ino Shika chau were useless against Pain as well as their parents- Kakashi and Jiraiya ended up dead and Tsunade in Coma. Shikaku clearly told Shika to keep out of the way of Naruto and that he was in another league with sage mode. IN the end Nagato ended his own life. Naruto might have lost too if Nagato used his remaining strength to kill instead of revival.

It's logical to assume that Ino has gotten beter as a medical nin and her family jutsu based on bits of manga but I never claimed that she was the next hokage!

Say whatever you want but, no need to over react.

I'm not over reacting the gold silver brothers nearly killed the raikage & hokage i really don't think they had the so6p weapons at the time,if they did most likely they would of sealed them aspecially if there on the brink of death.Ino of course got stronger but to control someone with the kyuubi chakra is out of this world,It may not be the original but still.

Kishi likes 2 f*** with our head - loool - and hes good at it - - - -

You got that right lol

i dont hate the series, i wouldnt read it if i hated it. i dont think that any of the critics hate it, that's why we criticize, because we care.

i just have the feeling that it's currently and slowly since shippuuden began becoming worse. i dont know weather that is just me or weather it's the story, but i loved naruto and to some extend till itachi's death shippuuden. i think it's about the characters, since the time skip and especially since itachi's death their character development either stagnated completely (side chars) or kishi absolutely overdid it (main chars).

i dont think that i could make a better manga. i could possibly write a story that matches the quality of his story, but his drawings are way ahead of mine, especially considering his speed. however, call me ignorant, but i am consumer, not producer. I'm not living from it and i dont care about competition. he on the other side is a pro in that genre and i'm obviously expecting him to be and of course compare him to other pros.

especially since the war arc, he is worse than many of them. if i was his editor i would suggest to him to take a month off and rethink his whole storyline. because momentarily i have the feeling that he either is in a spot where he doesnt want to be and currently doesnt really know how to get out of there, or loosing the feeling for the roots of his own story.


i am a true fan, i'm just no fanatic. if somebody doesnt like how something important to him develops, i think it's his right to talk about that and i think his points through even if it's my favorite thing he's talking about.

Good points

 

[Mr.Beastie]

i dont hate the series, i wouldnt read it if i hated it. i dont think that any of the critics hate it, that's why we criticize, because we care.

i just have the feeling that it's currently and slowly since shippuuden began becoming worse. i dont know weather that is just me or weather it's the story, but i loved naruto and to some extend till itachi's death shippuuden. i think it's about the characters, since the time skip and especially since itachi's death their character development either stagnated completely (side chars) or kishi absolutely overdid it (main chars).

i dont think that i could make a better manga. i could possibly write a story that matches the quality of his story, but his drawings are way ahead of mine, especially considering his speed. however, call me ignorant, but i am consumer, not producer. I'm not living from it and i dont care about competition. he on the other side is a pro in that genre and i'm obviously expecting him to be and of course compare him to other pros.

especially since the war arc, he is worse than many of them. if i was his editor i would suggest to him to take a month off and rethink his whole storyline. because momentarily i have the feeling that he either is in a spot where he doesnt want to be and currently doesnt really know how to get out of there, or loosing the feeling for the roots of his own story.


i am a true fan, i'm just no fanatic. if somebody doesnt like how something important to him develops, i think it's his right to talk about that and i think his points through even if it's my favorite thing he's talking about.

edit: i think i killed another thread with a wall of text or am going to be ignored. bad habit xd

First off it is kishi's story he can do anything he wants with it The story is going the way its supposed to.If kishi just made a story everyone wanted to see then the story wouldnt be unique. Since you think the war ark is bad the dont read this part. I am so sick of people making threads about what kishi does wrong and never about what he does right.

 

[D3A]

I believe that we learn the whole truth about the So6P, once the story focuses on Tobi/Madara.

I liked the history about Hanzo and Mifune. Like I said, the history some of those guys brings is cool, but I don't need to see them in drawn out battles.

Most of the complaints about Kishi losing his touch seem to come from people wanting the IWR ninja to get more air time, I personally don't believe they need it.

i wuv you <---------------------> (<--that much)
------------------------------------------------------
since im too lazy to read through 3 pages, im join in here.

it seems we have a lil argument/discussion goin on so ima throw my opinion in.

Kishi knows best, sure he messed up on a few parts but you cant focus on having stretched out fights for over 30 ninjas that are friggin immortal. why do you think we didnt get to see kakashi's rampage? simply cuz it would take waaaaaay to long, hell in the panel where night time arrived, kakashi's squad was still fighting, THEY WERE FIGHTING THE 7 SWORDSMEN FOR AN ENTIRE DAY!!!!!! do you know how many chapter's that'd be??? and besides, I'd love to see kakashi rampage but we only saw the fight with zabuza cuz we know zabuza, kakashi slashing wildly at strangers with no minds at all, isnt that fun. as for gaaras fight...had kishi left out gaaras dad, i wouldnt mind not seeing an ounce of that fight, but he did, so i hope the anime makes a filler for gaaras fight. kinkaku and ginkaku turned out to be necessary for madaras plan, and i enjoyed seeing them. as for hanzo, kabuto just effed up by reviving a man who's skills wore off due to hiding for a buncha years so he got pwned that a samurai that he once knew, that makes perfect sense to me and i enjoyed it

all im saying is making long ass fights that some people so desperately wanna see for over 30 MINOR AND/OR UNHEARD OF characters would be if anything pointless. so lets all stop complaining and just enjoy what kishi gives us every 7 days

 

[Avani]

that doesnt change my point. why did he had to create these 38 characters if he isnt going to do anything with them anyway? now he has to summarize the death/sealing of 38 characters who dont interest anybody because they dont even get enough story to have any attitude. i cant bring in 40 characters as an author, announce it greatly in my manga and afterwards notice that i neither have time nor interest enough in them to let any of them get more than a few chapters. why did he introduce them in the first point anyway?

no you didnt. i just wanted to point out that it will go further with supernumeraries vs supernumeraries killing each other with one punch each. thats kinda sad for a manga that was so good in the beginning because every character had own attitudes and background story and even character development for every genin in the begining.

I respect your opinion but, thank god that Kishi didn't think like you. I have no intention to see fights of filler characters and to hell with their character development. It's the story of Naruto not every Tom, **** and harry ever mentioned in the manga.

We got to see enough of the characters to understand the situation. Zabuza and Haku ended up in the same place after all and Zabuza wasn't happy to be resurrected. He insisted to be stopped then and there- that set the theme of such resurrection. Chhiyo was giving out tips to the allaince whole time. Dan asked for the barrier as soon as he forwarded towards the alliance forces. That's what happens when you force reluctant warrior to do something they don't want to do.

Most of the characters worth anything had their part in the story already told. Some like Hanzo got their closer- Hanzo had lost much respect since we saw him ambushing Yahiko and his friends by deceiving them. We got to see his rise and fall and he redeemed himself when he confronted Mifune. There was nothing more to it.

Those who were expecting some drama like Dan vs Tsunade were heading for the disappointmnt from the start because it was not going to happen. The war is still on and we are getting glimpses of relevant characters part- some bits of INo, some of Sakura, some of Shika, choji and so on.

Those who are waiting a big fight between Raikage and Naruto may end up disappointed too. Sasuke's fight showed his strength already and chances are high that it won't be repeated.

It's time for Shikaku to show his part and I 'm waiting for his solution..

Why summon so many? To show people that Kabuto is still around, and to not be taken lightly. To fill in some quick histroy? Honestly I don't know. But most people complaining are complaining about this.

Madara needs some time to do what he is doing, Sasuke needs time to heal. Do you really want to watch Neji, Shikamaru, etc, fight white Zetsu's? He probably figures bringing some older toons back would be a little cooler than that, even if he wipes them out quickly.

Also considering Kabuto can dismiss them anytime, there is no guarantee that all of them will be sealed during the war.

It also gives him lots of options as a writer.

Agreed that it ballances out the war and makes it somewhat interesting . Only zetsus Vs alliance would have been boring and some charactes like Hanzo indeed need a closer and Kin Gin brothers to replace Naruto in Gedo mezo. Itachi and Nagato talk is cool too.

Spoiler

i wuv you <---------------------> (<--that much)
------------------------------------------------------
since im too lazy to read through 3 pages, im join in here.

it seems we have a lil argument/discussion goin on so ima throw my opinion in.

Kishi knows best, sure he messed up on a few parts but you cant focus on having stretched out fights for over 30 ninjas that are friggin immortal. why do you think we didnt get to see kakashi's rampage? simply cuz it would take waaaaaay to long, hell in the panel where night time arrived, kakashi's squad was still fighting, THEY WERE FIGHTING THE 7 SWORDSMEN FOR AN ENTIRE DAY!!!!!! do you know how many chapter's that'd be??? and besides, I'd love to see kakashi rampage but we only saw the fight with zabuza cuz we know zabuza, kakashi slashing wildly at strangers with no minds at all, isnt that fun. as for gaaras fight...had kishi left out gaaras dad, i wouldnt mind not seeing an ounce of that fight, but he did, so i hope the anime makes a filler for gaaras fight. kinkaku and ginkaku turned out to be necessary for madaras plan, and i enjoyed seeing them. as for hanzo, kabuto just effed up by reviving a man who's skills wore off due to hiding for a buncha years so he got pwned that a samurai that he once knew, that makes perfect sense to me and i enjoyed it

all im saying is making long ass fights that some people so desperately wanna see for over 30 MINOR AND/OR UNHEARD OF characters would be if anything pointless. so lets all stop complaining and just enjoy what kishi gives us every 7 days

+ rep for you.

 

[Revan]

Why summon so many? To show people that Kabuto is still around, and to not be taken lightly. To fill in some quick histroy? Honestly I don't know. But most people complaining are complaining about this.

Madara needs some time to do what he is doing, Sasuke needs time to heal. Do you really want to watch Neji, Shikamaru, etc, fight white Zetsu's? He probably figures bringing some older toons back would be a little cooler than that, even if he wipes them out quickly.

Also considering Kabuto can dismiss them anytime, there is no guarantee that all of them will be sealed during the war.

It also gives him lots of options as a writer.

yeah, in theory it gives him lots of options. but he overdid it with the number and now as a result cant (or doesnt want to) develop the fights and characters.

i think fewer but stronger enemies would have been way more interesting, because you dont have no-names fighting no-names in two mangas but instead having a longer drawn out fight with conversation and flashbacks. it could give the characters depth instead of loosing depth because he cant even point out how his old characters develop. his writing style in my eyes just doesnt benefit from a war scenario.

white zetsu is just the worst thing that ever happened in naruto. these are the orcs of naruto, beings without character, story, strength. cannon-fodder. re-read the zabuza-arc, read the war afterwards and you will see what i mean.

First off it is kishi's story he can do anything he wants with it The story is going the way its supposed to.If kishi just made a story everyone wanted to see then the story wouldnt be unique. Since you think the war ark is bad the dont read this part. I am so sick of people making threads about what kishi does wrong and never about what he does right.

i dont say that he cant do what he wants, i just say that what he does is worse than what I'm used to read from him.

my critique is still not really about his story. it is about the way he momentarily develops his characters and introduces new characters. characters are something that make or break a story and where naruto began very promising and nowadays is awful. he turned his greatest strength into his greatest weakness.

if i stop reading how do i notice when it gets better again?

i have no problem if you create a thread what he does right. i will post what he does right momentarily in my opinion. it's just that he does some central things wrong momentarily which annoy me, so i'm trying to discuss them with other people, while having the hope that kishi hears any of them.

 

[Avani]

yeah, in theory it gives him lots of options. but he overdid it with the number and now as a result cant (or doesnt want to) develop the fights and characters.

i think fewer but stronger enemies would have been way more interesting, because you dont have no-names fighting no-names in two mangas but instead having a longer drawn out fight with conversation and flashbacks. it could give the characters depth instead of loosing depth because he cant even point out how his old characters develop. his writing style in my eyes just doesnt benefit from a war scenario.

white zetsu is just the worst thing that ever happened in naruto. these are the orcs of naruto, beings without character, story, strength. cannon-fodder. re-read the zabuza-arc, read the war afterwards and you will understand what i mean.




i dont say that he cant do what he wants, i just say that what he does is worse than what I'm used to read from him.
my critique is still not really about his story, i didnt bring up retarded decisions of pain, sasuke, kakazu,... nor did i bring up e.g. sasuke attacking the kage-summit. my critic is about the way he momentarily develops his characters and introduces new characters. character development is something that makes or breaks a story and that was where naruto stood out positively. nowadays it's either implausible (naruto/sasuke)or non existent.



if i stop reading how do i notice when it gets better again?

ONly kin Gin brothers dropped out of blue and their purpose is clear... Kishi had to give some expansion to their character as well and he did. It's a matter of opinion. A lot of us are fine the way story is going and really aren't interested in development of irrelevant characters. Dead Kages or ex swordsmen of mist are not important to the world today- knowing they were capable and dangerous is enough.

Don't know what you mean by Kakazu's decision or pain and sasuke in middle of this- probably irrelevant to this thread.

ONe on one fight of each and every character--- OMG the manga would never end if we have to read the death of 40,000 shinobies. U_U

As for critique- it's the only manga he has written till date and we are reading- Critque it when it ends- giving crtique at every paragraph is neither here nor there. Level of writing can be decided as a whole not in pieces.

 

[Mr.Beastie]

i wuv you <---------------------> (<--that much)
------------------------------------------------------
since im too lazy to read through 3 pages, im join in here.

it seems we have a lil argument/discussion goin on so ima throw my opinion in.

Kishi knows best, sure he messed up on a few parts but you cant focus on having stretched out fights for over 30 ninjas that are friggin immortal. why do you think we didnt get to see kakashi's rampage? simply cuz it would take waaaaaay to long, hell in the panel where night time arrived, kakashi's squad was still fighting, THEY WERE FIGHTING THE 7 SWORDSMEN FOR AN ENTIRE DAY!!!!!! do you know how many chapter's that'd be??? and besides, I'd love to see kakashi rampage but we only saw the fight with zabuza cuz we know zabuza, kakashi slashing wildly at strangers with no minds at all, isnt that fun. as for gaaras fight...had kishi left out gaaras dad, i wouldnt mind not seeing an ounce of that fight, but he did, so i hope the anime makes a filler for gaaras fight. kinkaku and ginkaku turned out to be necessary for madaras plan, and i enjoyed seeing them. as for hanzo, kabuto just effed up by reviving a man who's skills wore off due to hiding for a buncha years so he got pwned that a samurai that he once knew, that makes perfect sense to me and i enjoyed it

all im saying is making long ass fights that some people so desperately wanna see for over 30 MINOR AND/OR UNHEARD OF characters would be if anything pointless. so lets all stop complaining and just enjoy what kishi gives us every 7 days

Thank you kishi knows best.

 

[Maina Deah]

yes you are precisely right. Violent reaction is typical but they shouldn't judge Kishi, this is how he want to run his story.