If you think of it Oro was a push over...

[BananaAssassin]

no, that example is not useless here because i'm not trying to prove that choji was weaker or not. go back all the way to the root of our argument. i used that example as a way to disprove your logic, which i explained above, and you don't have anything to say and now you're just evading the subject cuz you can't refute it. done.

and i said kisame was not the only one who improved over the time skip. you said 'people improve you know'. you've been contradicting your own statements here quite a bit now

it's true that kimimaro assisted in kazekage's killing, but at that point he was already fataly ill. just go check out narutopedia. and i have already told you, i don't have any proof, you don't have any proof. by proof i mean definitive. however, i've come up with my own argument which is based upon the evidence in the manga and even after all this argument you fail to refute it with legit, evidence based argument. you're in no position to tell me that i have no proof because while we both don't have any proof, i have my own argument based on evidence. you don't.

and if you haven't seen my posts in this forum, my favorite characters are kisame and zabuza. and i'm neutral about all the other characters. all my friends in this forum knows it. but i see you're new with barely even 100 posts so you don't know. you think i would argue against my favorite character, kisame, for no good reasons?

you're gettin silly. just give it up dude.

No no no. Example is useless. 'Cause when I said that Naruto would win Itachi and it's allways about who is stronger etc. And I ignored ur abc slug snage theories. I meant at the current time . You are giving me an example were you compare two fights from different times in the story. And its possible that Choji was weaker then so what's the point saying me that example?..I dont say Naruto can beat itachi when he was 9yr old.

"and i said kisame was not the only one who improved over the time skip. you said 'people improve you know'. you've been contradicting your own statements here quite a bit now"

Yes I said that?..Maybe Oro has improved but we cant prove neither things so its useless to argue about that!

Okay the bolded part starts to get lame. Really? Same as if would u say that if Kisame said when he was child that he could not beat Madara. Okay that was exaggerated. But it was 3 ago when Kisame said that so how is that plausible "proof" at this moment? I can't proof that Kisame has improved but neither can u that his not. So all u do is to spam that "argument", when really it gets lamer and lamer.

 

[Schmack]

No no no. Example is useless. 'Cause when I said that Naruto would win Itachi and it's allways about who is stronger etc. And I ignored ur abc slug snage theories. I meant at the current time . You are giving me an example were you compare two fights from different times in the story. And its possible that Choji was weaker then so what's the point saying me that example?..I dont say Naruto can beat itachi when he was 9yr old.

"and i said kisame was not the only one who improved over the time skip. you said 'people improve you know'. you've been contradicting your own statements here quite a bit now"

Yes I said that?..Maybe Oro has improved but we cant prove neither things so its useless to argue about that!

Okay the bolded part starts to get lame. Really? Same as if would u say that if Kisame said when he was child that he could not beat Madara. Okay that was exaggerated. But it was 3 ago when Kisame said that so how is that plausible "proof" at this moment? I can't proof that Kisame has improved but neither can u that his not. So all u do is to spam that "argument", when really it gets lamer and lamer.

can you use correct grammar and better sentence arrangements to explain you're point better? you're hardly makin any sense and you sound like a middle schooler here. you ignored my abc comments. and then you meant at the current time? what? anyways the example is NOT useless because as i told you before, i didn't use it to prove who's stronger and who's not. i used it to disprove your logic which i explained in my above post and don't feel like repeating myself cuz you're clearly not gettin it. that's about all i can make out from your first para. come back at me with a better grammar.

yes you said that and yes you got pwnd cuz you said it in the first place.

once again, you do nothing but call my argument 'lame' without providing any valid evidence based argument of yours. look kiddo.

1. kisame improved during the timeskip (assumption cuz there's no evidence)
2. so did oro and naruto and kakashi and everybody else (assumption too)
3. we don't know by how much they improved
4. therefore all we can use in this argument is the quote by kisame on jiraiya.
5. sannins are equal in power (arguable)

what else do we have? what else do YOU have? nothing. all you do is come up with some bullshit excuses to diss my argument without any legit argument backin you up. grow a pair and give it up

 

[mustafagrbz]

@Schmack
I ve been reading your posts about this kisame-oro thing both of you have some good points but I dont understand one thing so help me out pls. U said that kisame said getting into fight with a Sannin is a silly thing,and you stated that thats why he could not beat Oro so my question is Tsunade can beat Kisame?

BTW I do think that Oro is/was stronger than Kisame but I just didnt get your point

 

[Schmack]

@Schmack
I ve been reading your posts about this kisame-oro thing both of you have some good points but I dont understand one thing so help me out pls. U said that kisame said getting into fight with a Sannin is a silly thing,and you stated that thats why he could not beat Oro so my question is Tsunade can beat Kisame?

BTW I do think that Oro is/was stronger than Kisame but I just didnt get your point

lol nothings definitive. as a reader i'm just as clueless as everybody else but i still base my arguments on known facts throughout the manga. and i never said kisame fighting anyone is silly. kisame is my fav character. however, there's one quote in part1 which explains the relationship between kisame's and sannins' power. i'm sure you know the quote. and can tsunade beat kisame? i don't know because we didn't see everything from tsunade yet. it's too early.

 

[mustafagrbz]

lol nothings definitive. as a reader i'm just as clueless as everybody else but i still base my arguments on known facts throughout the manga. and i never said kisame fighting anyone is silly. kisame is my fav character. however, there's one quote in part1 which explains the relationship between kisame's and sannins' power. i'm sure you know the quote. and can tsunade beat kisame? i don't know because we didn't see everything from tsunade yet. it's too early.

Well thank you for explaining your opinion and sorry to interrupt your hardcore arguement with BananaAssasin actually it is quite enjoying to read such 'determined' guys arguement

 

[Schmack]

lmao i enjoy this too. this happens once in a while and this site's a good time killer.xd

 

[BananaAssassin]

can you use correct grammar and better sentence arrangements to explain you're point better? you're hardly makin any sense and you sound like a middle schooler here. you ignored my abc comments. and then you meant at the current time? what? anyways the example is NOT useless because as i told you before, i didn't use it to prove who's stronger and who's not. i used it to disprove your logic which i explained in my above post and don't feel like repeating myself cuz you're clearly not gettin it. that's about all i can make out from your first para. come back at me with a better grammar.

yes you said that and yes you got pwnd cuz you said it in the first place.

once again, you do nothing but call my argument 'lame' without providing any valid evidence based argument of yours. look kiddo.

1. kisame improved during the timeskip (assumption cuz there's no evidence)
2. so did oro and naruto and kakashi and everybody else (assumption too)
3. we don't know by how much they improved
4. therefore all we can use in this argument is the quote by kisame on jiraiya.
5. sannins are equal in power (arguable)

what else do we have? what else do YOU have? nothing. all you do is come up with some bullshit excuses to diss my argument without any legit argument backin you up. grow a pair and give it up

Okay lol your making that first part way too difficult from what it really is.And you can diss me from grammar use if u don't know nothing more to say I get that you're trying to disprove my logic. you're the one that is not getting that I get that and owned you at it.

Let me say it once more: My logic was that if Naruto beats Pain (as he did) he's stronger and will win all below Pain's level.Including Itachi.
Then you give me the Choji example, where u compare to fights that happened at different times! DO U GET IT? That doesn't disprove my logic. 'Cause u can also say hey Itachi was stronger than Naruto when Naruto was kid and so Itachi is now stronger than Pain. You cant compare strenghtlevels from different times in characters life. Do you see. You dont rule out my logic at all. Im getting tired pwning you.

About the Kisame said about Jiraya thing. Well what can I say. I just dont take it seriously 'cause what I mean is, u or I can't know if Kisame would say that at this time. Get it? Ur just diggin past when now thinks could, would or are different? Who knows. So you just think its ur argument but really it's not plausible.Jiraya is in statbook higher than Oro so I take it that he's stronger if Kishi says so. So when Kisame said he could not won against Jman that doesnt mean at the time he could not beat Oro. I say again, your argument is not convincing.

 

[Serpent]

He was evil as evil can be but when you think of it.

He threaten pain when pain was a youngster.

But later he is working for the same person he was threating...( now he is a henchman)


He was to be the first to be kage when 3rd died.
(however he was do wowoped by a leaf kid called Itachi who if he did not kill his clan or if Oro did not betray his village he would have lead in a peaceful leaf village and wouldn't know he was stronger than him)


His own summon did not like him and wanted to kill him.
(no respect)


Someone he trained wanted to murder him as soon as possiable
(Sasuke)
Did not show him respect.


He made weaker beings his new host. But he was always around strong people and dare not try to attack them besides Itachi. (Kazuzu, kisame, Konan just saying...)

Now he lives his life as a snake connected to Kabuto his once servant rump.


Is this what we called the life of Oro?

Orochimaru is stronger then Everyone in Akasuski besides (Itachi, Pein and Tobi)

Orochimaru vs Itachi, the only Reason Itachi will win is because of his Sharingan.. take that away and Orochimaru will Kill Itachi...

Orochimaru vs Pein (he will get farther then J-Man did, but it's not fair, 6 agents one..)

Orochimaru vs Tobi, we don't know anything about Tobi other then the lies that he tells, but Orochimaru was still able to get a lot of Information about Tobi without him knowing...

 

[Schmack]

Okay lol your making that first part way too difficult from what it really is.And you can diss me from grammar use if u don't know nothing more to say I get that you're trying to disprove my logic. you're the one that is not getting that I get that and owned you at it.

Let me say it once more: My logic was that if Naruto beats Pain (as he did) he's stronger and will win all below Pain's level.Including Itachi.
Then you give me the Choji example, where u compare to fights that happened at different times! DO U GET IT? That doesn't disprove my logic. 'Cause u can also say hey Itachi was stronger than Naruto when Naruto was kid and so Itachi is now stronger than Pain. You cant compare strenghtlevels from different times in characters life. Do you see. You dont rule out my logic at all. Im getting tired pwning you.

About the Kisame said about Jiraya thing. Well what can I say. I just dont take it seriously 'cause what I mean is, u or I can't know if Kisame would say that at this time. Get it? Ur just diggin past when now thinks could, would or are different? Who knows. So you just think its ur argument but really it's not plausible.Jiraya is in statbook higher than Oro so I take it that he's stronger if Kishi says so. So when Kisame said he could not won against Jman that doesnt mean at the time he could not beat Oro. I say again, your argument is not convincing.

lmao you are really not gettin it. time doesn't have anything to do with my argument. as you said, you're logic:

1. if Naruto beats Pain (as he did) he's stronger and will win all below Pain's level.Including Itachi.
2. this can be translated into a(naruto) > b(pain), and b(pain) > c(itachi), so a(naruto) > c(itachi). as i have repeated many times before.
3. now. my point was that according to your logic, a(dosu) > b(choji), and b(choji) > c(jirobo), so a(dosu) > c(jirobo).

once again, time has nothing to do with it and you're still not gettin it. and you keep talking about pwning, but the only thing that you're pwning right now is you're own logic and you're keyboard.

and do use better grammar cuz you not makin any sense in the post i'm talkin about. is that so hard to understand?

so you don't take kisame's quote seriously. lmao. what do you take seriously then? you can't argue with somebody that way. it's clearly in the manga and if you don't take it seriously, lmao. then i don't take you seriously.

 

[Schmack]

Orochimaru is stronger then Everyone in Akasuski besides (Itachi, Pein and Tobi)

Orochimaru vs Itachi, the only Reason Itachi will win is because of his Sharingan.. take that away and Orochimaru will Kill Itachi...

Orochimaru vs Pein (he will get farther then J-Man did, but it's not fair, 6 agents one..)

Orochimaru vs Tobi, we don't know anything about Tobi other then the lies that he tells, but Orochimaru was still able to get a lot of Information about Tobi without him knowing...

that's what i said in my first post in this thread but BananaAssassin --> not gettin it.

 

[BananaAssassin]

lmao you are really not gettin it. time doesn't have anything to do with my argument. as you said, you're logic:

1. if Naruto beats Pain (as he did) he's stronger and will win all below Pain's level.Including Itachi.
2. this can be translated into a(naruto) > b(pain), and b(pain) > c(itachi), so a(naruto) > c(itachi). as i have repeated many times before.
3. now. my point was that according to your logic, a(dosu) > b(choji), and b(choji) > c(jirobo), so a(dosu) > c(jirobo).

once again, time has nothing to do with it and you're still not gettin it. and you keep talking about pwning, but the only thing that you're pwning right now is you're own logic and you're keyboard.

and do use better grammar cuz you not makin any sense in the post i'm talkin about. is that so hard to understand?

so you don't take kisame's quote seriously. lmao. what do you take seriously then? you can't argue with somebody that way. it's clearly in the manga and if you don't take it seriously, lmao. then i don't take you seriously.

Okay wtf really?! If Itachi had won naruto when Naruto was 9yrs old and now Naruto beat Pain so if my logic wouldn't count time as a factor it would go like that, so Itachi would be stronger now than Pain when he really is not. Time has everything to do it. Dunno if you take it ur own way but I dont think it like that. U just pust words in my mouth and take some lame example from different times when my comparison with Naruto, Pain, Itachi is taken from present. And there is my point. So dont twist it.

Okay I just explained you why I dont take it seriously and I at the same time in my opinion proved your "argument" invalid or whatever the word is. Im not american or english. U have errors in your grammar as well so dont be hypocrite.

 

[mustafagrbz]

Orochimaru took out 2/5 of the kages in his weakened/sick state so dont say that he is weak I believe even Itachi could not do it but I also admit that Itachi would beat Oro 1-1(genjetsu is not Oro s thing x/)

 

[tacobelt]

orochimaru coulnt beat itachi BUT you also have to consider he was trying to take over his body so dont think he wanted to go all out and damage the host. also from whats been shown he is more of a melee/poison type of fighter, not a special type of jutsu like itachi or pain. in the akatsuki rankings think he is would be 4th.

lastly Orochimaru was weak because of the 3rd for the most part so dont think we ever saw him in top shape. he pretty much underestimated the 3rd and got beat before he showed everything in his arsenal.

 

[Schmack]

Okay wtf really?! If Itachi had won naruto when Naruto was 9yrs old and now Naruto beat Pain so if my logic wouldn't count time as a factor it would go like that, so Itachi would be stronger now than Pain when he really is not. Time has everything to do it. Dunno if you take it ur own way but I dont think it like that. U just pust words in my mouth and take some lame example from different times when my comparison with Naruto, Pain, Itachi is taken from present. And there is my point. So dont twist it.

Okay I just explained you why I dont take it seriously and I at the same time in my opinion proved your "argument" invalid or whatever the word is. Im not american or english. U have errors in your grammar as well so dont be hypocrite.

i'm really gettin tired of you not gettin my point at all. and i don't like to repeat myself, but o well.

1. you're original argument was 'kisame beat 8tails so he can beat orochimaru'.
2. my argument was 'a>b, and b>c. but this does not equal a>c'

does this have anything to do with time? no. it's you who added this 'time' factor into you're argument midway through the argument for some silly reason and tried to evade my point. so you think because naruto beat pain, he can beat itachi. then provide some evidence. you haven't provided any.

and no you can't just discount what's in the manga without any valid reasons. for example, if kisame and jiraiya fought and kisame beat jiraiya, then the quote would be discounted. but to discount the quote because it was 3 years ago? can't do that buddy.

you're not american and can't speak english well? that's you're problem and has nothing to do with this argument. yes i have some gramatical errors in my sentences too but i make my points clear, unlike you.

 

[heavenlymean]

Orochimaru ftw.
you just seem like a oro hater to me ..

 

[mustafagrbz]

orochimaru coulnt beat itachi BUT you also have to consider he was trying to take over his body so dont think he wanted to go all out and damage the host. also from whats been shown he is more of a melee/poison type of fighter, not a special type of jutsu like itachi or pain. in the akatsuki rankings think he is would be 4th.

lastly Orochimaru was weak because of the 3rd for the most part so dont think we ever saw him in top shape. he pretty much underestimated the 3rd and got beat before he showed everything in his arsenal.

No orochimaru was not weak he didnt lost his arms in that fight with just an underestimation he was sick or weakened because of his ressurection thing I might be wrong though not quite sure about it but the thing that I am sure about ıs 3rd considered god of shinobi in naruto universe and orochimaru killed that guy doesnt matter old or not that kind of power just does not scales down massively with age I believe

 

[BananaAssassin]

i'm really gettin tired of you not gettin my point at all. and i don't like to repeat myself, but o well.

1. you're original argument was 'kisame beat 8tails so he can beat orochimaru'.
2. my argument was 'a>b, and b>c. but this does not equal a>c'

does this have anything to do with time? no. it's you who added this 'time' factor into you're argument midway through the argument for some silly reason and tried to evade my point. so you think because naruto beat pain, he can beat itachi. then provide some evidence. you haven't provided any.

and no you can't just discount what's in the manga without any valid reasons. for example, if kisame and jiraiya fought and kisame beat jiraiya, then the quote would be discounted. but to discount the quote because it was 3 years ago? can't do that buddy.

you're not american and can't speak english well? that's you're problem and has nothing to do with this argument. yes i have some gramatical errors in my sentences too but i make my points clear, unlike you.

Well this is getting lamer all the time. You added time factor when you told the examples of Choji. But I'm also sick of repeatinf myself and I see this is getting complicated for u so forget it.

I say for the millionth time I can and will discount it 'cause it was 3 years ago. I also discount it with the fact that Jiraya was/is stronger than Oro. So what in the world does your argument now have to do wiht kisame vs oro?? I also have said that like 76 times.

And if u don't get my points then the problem is inside ur head not in my grammar.

 

[Schmack]

Well this is getting lamer all the time. You added time factor when you told the examples of Choji. But I'm also sick of repeatinf myself and I see this is getting complicated for u so forget it.

I say for the millionth time I can and will discount it 'cause it was 3 years ago. I also discount it with the fact that Jiraya was/is stronger than Oro. So what in the world does your argument now have to do wiht kisame vs oro?? I also have said that like 76 times.

And if u don't get my points then the problem is inside ur head not in my grammar.

nooo. i didn't add time factor. you did with your silly 9yr old naruto thing. in this argument right now and your logic, time does not matter. the two battles have already happened. choji beat jirobo and naruto 'beat' pain. it's already done. this has nothing to do with time since according to your logic:

1. naruto>pain, pain>itachi, so naruto>itachi
2. dosu> choji, choji>jirobo, dosu>jirobo

o well. i explained again but i doubt you're gonna get it.

and i told you you can't discount an actual quote in the manga unless they're proven wrong (ex. kisame beating jiraiya). and you're argument that jiraiya was stronger than orochimaru is still arguable so it's not definitive. you can't use that as evidence.

and look around you. look at the recent posts that have been made. majority of people here agree that orochimaru is stronger than kisame. and yet, you keep insisting that he's not without any legit evidence. and it's your fault you have bad grammar and can't explain your points very well. not mine.

edit: and try to explain your point better instead of criticizing me for your own faults. if you make you points clear, i'll argue.

 

[tacobelt]

No orochimaru was not weak he didnt lost his arms in that fight with just an underestimation he was sick or weakened because of his ressurection thing I might be wrong though not quite sure about it but the thing that I am sure about ıs 3rd considered god of shinobi in naruto universe and orochimaru killed that guy doesnt matter old or not that kind of power just does not scales down massively with age I believe

they specifically state that obito was no longer at his prime. and he is not considered a GOD but is instead considered more of a role model, a true shinobi.

what i mean when i said he understimated the 3rd was that he did IWR and then stayed back for 1/2 of the battle. the next 1/2 he only used basic sword fight so clearly he didnt pull all the tricks.

the "he was weakened" i mean after that fight. i may have typed the order incorrectly. Oops.

 

[Professor Sarutobi]

No orochimaru was not weak he didnt lost his arms in that fight with just an underestimation he was sick or weakened because of his ressurection thing I might be wrong though not quite sure about it but the thing that I am sure about ıs 3rd considered god of shinobi in naruto universe and orochimaru killed that guy doesnt matter old or not that kind of power just does not scales down massively with age I believe

Age affects power unless you negate it with weird jutsus like kazuku,orochimaru and tsunade. If you read the fight between the 3rd and oro its said multiple times his abilties were being affected heavily by his age, his chakra was alot lower, his weapon felt heavier, oro said he'd never seen the 3rd out of breath before but after a few back and forth attacks he was breathing heavier, and he wasn't fighting the same in general. (Enma, his personal summon stated that and in one of the translation that he wasn't acting like his useual self)

now even with all that basicly making his "Prime" hidden, he was still the strongest in the village at the time and the only person who could have even came close to stoping oro 1v1.

they specifically state that obito was no longer at his prime. and he is not considered a GOD but is instead considered more of a role model, a true shinobi.

what i mean when i said he understimated the 3rd was that he did IWR and then stayed back for 1/2 of the battle. the next 1/2 he only used basic sword fight so clearly he didnt pull all the tricks.

the "he was weakened" i mean after that fight. i may have typed the order incorrectly. Oops.

lol ok either typo first sentence or just confused on who we are talking about, obito was kakashi's friend that was crushed by rocks and gives kakashi his sharingan. and Hiruzen Sarutobi the 3rd hokage, was nicknamed The God of the Shinobi, i can show you the manga page if you want.