Itachi Uchiha vs Pein

[Anub]

thank you for that comment. i did not have the patience to reply to it like you did.. btw i noticed Anub never respended back to it..

I usually stop replying if I don't see a point in replying. I won't jump on any "debate" if I feel like I have repeated myself a thousand times. For further information, try other Itachi vs Pain threads. I have stopped trying to prove that Itachi can win to people who adore Nagato. I will debate with open-minded people who can accept logic and can challenge my logic, instead of trying to "prove" the same things that weren't that believable in the first place.

this was awesome

Posting pictures? Yea. It was quite nice. It took me 30 seconds to load the thread instead of 5... Waste of Kb I would say. Did they prove anything? No, not really. It's pictures + a little one-sided battle story. Unless it's something else that only Pain lovers see. But all I see is pictures of them using their abilities...aaaaa...ok...99% of this forum knows that. What now? Are you going to make me print them off or something?

 

[JakeLife510]

Itachi is a master genius.

Pein has hella powers.

Itachi > Pein

 

[Avani]

wait what?! did i miss 10 chapters of the manga and no one told me ?!

1. when did it say in the manga that tsukyiomi (or any visual genjutsu) doesn't work in the manga? bring proof.
2. When did Pain repel a sound genjutsu a second time? He was only caught in a sound genjutsu once.

Well well, you finally found something you could reply to I posted a lot but you showed nothing but utter respect for my posts by silently bowing out.

Anyway. Nagato could use all kind of jutsu quite well since the age of 10- Jiraiya said so. He used Shinera tensi in Leaf because he was going for big blasts. It was a matter of choice. It's not like Nagato couldn't fight back genjutsu.

He did tell Frogs that first time their genjutsu worked only because he was caught by surprise- he wasn't ready for it from Jiraiya- I don't have time to search manga for the exact place where he told the frogs that. My logical deduction is that with Itachi he would expect it and be very well prepared for it.

One chakra rod from Pain in enough to disturb the receipients chakra and make it go all heywired- Jiraiya got unable to concentrate after that, Naruto was pinned, I have no reason to believe Itachi could function well if Pain put a chakra rod in him either.

 

[NewKageism]

I usually stop replying if I don't see a point in replying. I won't jump on any "debate" if I feel like I have repeated myself a thousand times. For further information, try other Itachi vs Pain threads. I have stopped trying to prove that Itachi can win to people who adore Nagato. I will debate with open-minded people who can accept logic and can challenge my logic, instead of trying to "prove" the same things that weren't that believable in the first place.




Posting pictures? Yea. It was quite nice. It took me 30 seconds to load the thread instead of 5... Waste of Kb I would say. Did they prove anything? No, not really. It's pictures + a little one-sided battle story. Unless it's something else that only Pain lovers see. But all I see is pictures of them using their abilities...aaaaa...ok...99% of this forum knows that. What now? Are you going to make me print them off or something?

Logic 99%.

Sorry bro the polls show you that your 99% is a fail. Your small logic of that simple thing you gave up how Itachi would win fail too. That is a kid theory. You fact were proved to be crushed. I even gave you picture and explained why.

Time to jump off the fanboy page and into know who would really win.

Itachi is a master genius.

Pein has hella powers.

Itachi > Pein

Their are many dead genius but a few unbeat people in Naruto llike pain (before he died).

 

[Avani]

I usually stop replying if I don't see a point in replying. I won't jump on any "debate" if I feel like I have repeated myself a thousand times.

Not passsionate enough eh ? But why then you would start a whole new thread on the similar topic and mention it in Pain Vs Itachi thread (Itachi at full power thread)

It's not about jumping in a debate. It's about giving valid arguments. I don't know about others but you didn't give me many. We could just agree to disagree but I would like to see some real debate not only fan stuff.

For further information, try other Itachi vs Pain threads. I have stopped trying to prove that Itachi can win to people who adore Nagato. I will debate with open-minded people who can accept logic and can challenge my logic, instead of trying to "prove" the same things that weren't that believable in the first place.

Oho kid ... talking like that earned you no respect. If you go on deliberately insulting people who have offered no offence it would do you no good. Only thing that has been evident from your posts is that you are an Itachi fan. He is one of my favourite characters too. I just refuse to accept that the sun rises out of his butt.

I'm open minded enough - just not that open minded that my brains fall out.

How can you say that other people who disagree with you do so only because they adore Pain implying they are doing so blindly (read your last line) ? They have their own logic and you cannot dissmiss it so superficially and still expect to be taken seriously yourself.

You give Itachi benefit of his sickness and his blindness and all that and yet you forget that Nagato was already crippled when he seriouly started to use rinnegan. If Itachi was hampered by his sickness so was Nagato. What was exactly Pain's secret? - That he was crippled. He still was a hell of opponant. One chakra rod and Itachi would have had trouble handling any of his powers.

I don't think Itachi and Pain would ever fight either way. Both were a different sort of person who wouldn't fight just to test each other. If they would come to blows for real, Itachi would be a martyr unless he came up for a way of sneaking up on Nagato. I don't see him winning in a fair duel.

 

[pein87]

With just two or 3 bodies Pain could beat Itachi. Hungry Ghost realm who can literally absorb any jutsu and chakara from a person combined with God realm who can blast back any jutsu and physical attack alone could probably take him. Each Path counters some form of jutsu be it Taijutsu or Ninjutsu. I'm willing to bet he can undo genjutsu since the rinnegan is said to have the powers of both the sharingan and byakugan but to higher degrees. In the manga and anime he says is this a genjutsu before he comes to fight Jiraiya and why he already summoned the other Pains before hand. Some people ask why is Shinrai Tensei so powerful and I will say google shock wave. If your hit with one of a certain level it will kill you hence why you dont need shrapnel to kill someone within a certain range of an explosion to kill. We don't know the full extent of Pains powers but we know Itachi would use the Mangekyou as he has in every fight he was able to use it in(he couldn't use it in his clone during the rescue garaa arc). None of Itachi's jutsu would work before Pain and there are six bodies and the Sharingan can only capture one person at a time in a genjutsu(watch every known sharingan genjutsu to see it only effects on person). Also re-watch or read what Chiyo said about fighting the Sharingan. Amaterasu = absorbed, Susanoo = absorbed, Tsukuyomi = not effective against 6 people. If he used a Genjutsu he would be stuck and unable to move until he releases the genjutsu. Thats the sharingan's draw back in terms of genjutsu they are open to attacks when they use it for visual genjusu. I doubt Pain would even give itachi the chance to use any jutsu and would probably draw him in and use one of the other paths to take his soul. You have to really look at the jutsu you've seen each one use and not theoretical stuff or what ifs. Itachi's no more stronger then Jiraiya and he admits that they would kill each other or seriously hurt each other if they fought. Pain Killed Jiraiya and nearly killed Naruto. If he wouldn't have destroyed the village and lost Tendou for so long he would have captured the Kyubi to but for obvious reasons Kishi made it so Pain was at a disadvantage so Naruto could win. Even then Pain with two Paths took out all 3 big frogs, elder sage frog, and Sage Naruto in a few minutes(most Tendou's work though).

 

[Anub]

Not passsionate enough eh ? But why then you would start a whole new thread on the similar topic and mention it in Pain Vs Itachi thread (Itachi at full power thread)

It's not about jumping in a debate. It's about giving valid arguments. I don't know about others but you didn't give me many. We could just agree to disagree but I would like to see some real debate not only fan stuff.

You don't get this do you? What is the point of me repeating myself if I have already said verything there was to say in favor of Itachi? Check older Itachi vs Pain threads. Yes, I'm there as well. For the time being, I am bored of Pain vs Itachi and would like to not debate about it anymore.

Oho kid ... talking like that earned you no respect. If you go on deliberately insulting people who have offered no offence it would do you no good. Only thing that has been evident from your posts is that you are an Itachi fan. He is one of my favourite characters too. I just refuse to accept that the sun rises out of his butt.

I'm open minded enough - just not that open minded that my brains fall out.

How can you say that other people who disagree with you do so only because they adore Pain implying they are doing so blindly (read your last line) ? They have their own logic and you cannot dissmiss it so superficially and still expect to be taken seriously yourself.

You give Itachi benefit of his sickness and his blindness and all that and yet you forget that Nagato was already crippled when he seriouly started to use rinnegan. If Itachi was hampered by his sickness so was Nagato. What was exactly Pain's secret? - That he was crippled. He still was a hell of opponant. One chakra rod and Itachi would have had trouble handling any of his powers.

I don't think Itachi and Pain would ever fight either way. Both were a different sort of person who wouldn't fight just to test each other. If they would come to blows for real, Itachi would be a martyr unless he came up for a way of sneaking up on Nagato. I don't see him winning in a fair duel.

First off, don't call me kid. I'm not a kid and certainly not acting like one (or replying like one for that matter).
Secondly, in the past I believed that Itachi would win against Pain easily. Now I believe that Itachi would win against Pain only if he has full knowledge about him. I call that open-minded, because I didn't turn my head the other way whenever someone replied to my post so that I can pretend I didn't see and still stick to the same old "facts". There are valid points that I have brought into the Itachi vs Pain discussion and were dismissed simply because "But Pain has Chibaku Tensei" with no regards of what the situation is.

With that said, I am tired of defending Itachi and then seeing others come on the thread and replying "Pain IS A GOD. How can Itachi beat a god?". However, the same rule applies to the opposite camp. There are indeed people that come and say "Itachi is an expert MS user". Neither of them are valid proofs and neither should be considered as debates. A debate should be more elaborate and it takes time. I have done that and I don't need to do it again. I've proven what I had to prove to whoever read my older posts and that's it. I've even given scenarios in which Itachi would win and in which he would lose. I like to think that I can look at this fight from an objective point of view and not be influenced at all by the fact that I like Itachi as a character.

For future reference : a fanboy doesn't debate about his character winning, he just assumes he is winning because of his awesomeness. I am not a fanboy, sir. I have looked at this fight from both fighters' point of view and came up with a result.

And as a conclusion, Itachi vs Pain, BOTH at full power, with full knowledge, would go Itachi 70% - Pain 30%. That's my opinion. Either agree or disagree, I don't mind. But if you disagree and bring an argument that you consider valid that suggests pain wins 100%... There is no "100% win" between fighters of that caliber. The sooner we accept this the sooner we can stop debating for a supreme win and come to a conclusion somewhere in between (i.e. I can admit that without any knowledge of Pain's abilities, Itachi would be at a disadvantage)

 

[oFuiinJutsuu]

It's definitely the full knowledge that gives Itachi the upper hand

 

[Avani]

You don't get this do you? What is the point of me repeating myself if I have already said verything there was to say in favor of Itachi? Check older Itachi vs Pain threads. Yes, I'm there as well. For the time being, I am bored of Pain vs Itachi and would like to not debate about it anymore.

I saw your claim- that's why I asked why on earth you went ahead and made a whole new thread on the similar issue and even mentioned it in Pain Itachi threads if you were tired with the issue? Whatever I don't want to know any more.

First off, don't call me kid. I'm not a kid and certainly not acting like one (or replying like one for that matter).

OK big boy, . Just kidding.

Secondly, in the past I believed that Itachi would win against Pain easily. Now I believe that Itachi would win against Pain only if he has full knowledge about him. I call that open-minded, because I didn't turn my head the other way whenever someone replied to my post so that I can pretend I didn't see and still stick to the same old "facts". There are valid points that I have brought into the Itachi vs Pain discussion and were dismissed simply because "But Pain has Chibaku Tensei" with no regards of what the situation is.

The reason I think Pain would win is that rinnegan is said to be stronger than sharingan and byakugan and Jiraiya mentioned that Nagato was expert in all six kinds of jutsus since age of 10. When frogs tried for genjutsu for helping Naruto Nagato was unaffected and told them he didn't fell twice for the same thing. Though it was a surprise even the first time he had taken care of it with Jiraiya- summonning other Pains before the full effect.

Itachi had said that he and Kisame can't defeat Jiraiya. He was a great and quick analyst and he never wrongly assessed his opponant. Itachi said that if they fought Jiraiya the best out come would be both sides dead. That means Itachi considered Jiraiya equal to him and Kisame. Jiraiya also must have thought himself capable enough to take Naruto into his custody when finding out Itachi/Akatsuki coming after him.

For the rest of it nobody can predict 100% outcome of a battle in Narutoverse. Shikamaru won against Hidan. Itachi was stronger than Oro yet all he could do was to trap him eternally in the sword. Oro still lives on in one form or another...

And as a conclusion, Itachi vs Pain, BOTH at full power, with full knowledge, would go Itachi 70% - Pain 30%. That's my opinion. Either agree or disagree, I don't mind. But if you disagree and bring an argument that you consider valid that suggests pain wins 100%... There is no "100% win" between fighters of that caliber. The sooner we accept this the sooner we can stop debating for a supreme win and come to a conclusion somewhere in between (i.e. I can admit that without any knowledge of Pain's abilities, Itachi would be at a disadvantage)

Better agree to disagree. I see only a small chance of Itachi winning and that only because of Nagato being crippled- because that's the full knowledge about Pain. Pain at full power means Nagato with his own legs and mobile. Not the Nagato badly needing a sandwitch. Nagato constantly used part of his chakra to rain over village for security. That's massive amount.

Pain could use genjutsu as well and we don't know how good he was at avoiding it but he must be good enough. Frogs certainly failed the second time. It just had no effect. With Itachi Nagato would be ready from the start. If Uchiha genjutsu worked Madara probably would have collected rinnegan long ago- just a feeling . Chibaku tensi shinera tensi etc are all right but his chakra rods were quite dangerous too and Raikage proved that Susano is not impenetrable.

With just two or 3 bodies Pain could beat Itachi. Hungry Ghost realm who can literally absorb any jutsu and chakara from a person combined with God realm who can blast back any jutsu and physical attack alone could probably take him. Each Path counters some form of jutsu be it Taijutsu or Ninjutsu. I'm willing to bet he can undo genjutsu since the rinnegan is said to have the powers of both the sharingan and byakugan but to higher degrees. In the manga and anime he says is this a genjutsu before he comes to fight Jiraiya and why he already summoned the other Pains before hand. Some people ask why is Shinrai Tensei so powerful and I will say google shock wave. If your hit with one of a certain level it will kill you hence why you dont need shrapnel to kill someone within a certain range of an explosion to kill. We don't know the full extent of Pains powers but we know Itachi would use the Mangekyou as he has in every fight he was able to use it in(he couldn't use it in his clone during the rescue garaa arc). None of Itachi's jutsu would work before Pain and there are six bodies and the Sharingan can only capture one person at a time in a genjutsu(watch every known sharingan genjutsu to see it only effects on person). Also re-watch or read what Chiyo said about fighting the Sharingan. Amaterasu = absorbed, Susanoo = absorbed, Tsukuyomi = not effective against 6 people. If he used a Genjutsu he would be stuck and unable to move until he releases the genjutsu. Thats the sharingan's draw back in terms of genjutsu they are open to attacks when they use it for visual genjusu. I doubt Pain would even give itachi the chance to use any jutsu and would probably draw him in and use one of the other paths to take his soul. You have to really look at the jutsu you've seen each one use and not theoretical stuff or what ifs. Itachi's no more stronger then Jiraiya and he admits that they would kill each other or seriously hurt each other if they fought. Pain Killed Jiraiya and nearly killed Naruto. If he wouldn't have destroyed the village and lost Tendou for so long he would have captured the Kyubi to but for obvious reasons Kishi made it so Pain was at a disadvantage so Naruto could win. Even then Pain with two Paths took out all 3 big frogs, elder sage frog, and Sage Naruto in a few minutes(most Tendou's work though).

He still got Naruto , had him pinned and could have just left but got talking...

 

[Anub]

Raikage proved that Susano is not impenetrable.

I will just pick on this because the rest is debatable, but this is a fact.

Raikage cracked the ribs of a weak version of sasuke's susano'o. Itachi's susano'o as capable of withstanding a Kirin, which I have no reason to believe was weaker than a taijutsu atack from Raikage and also Itachi's susano'o has the shield that repels any attack and can mold in any shape to protect the user. So Itachi's susano'o is pretty much impenetrable.

 

[Avani]

I will just pick on this because the rest is debatable, but this is a fact.

Raikage cracked the ribs of a weak version of sasuke's susano'o. Itachi's susano'o as capable of withstanding a Kirin, which I have no reason to believe was weaker than a taijutsu atack from Raikage and also Itachi's susano'o has the shield that repels any attack and can mold in any shape to protect the user. So Itachi's susano'o is pretty much impenetrable.

Raikage fought a weaker Version alright. Itachi had Yata mirror. But then Raikage is no Nagato either. Chakra rods are a different story. They won't get hurt themselves. Can be molded and once touched by them they start interfering the recepients abilities. It doesn't matter how good he is normally. It took a fox Naruto to get free of them. Sage Naruto was not enough.

Itachi's susano is not easily impenetrable, but not impossible.

 

[Anub]

Sage Naruto was not enough.

Sage Naruto was enough when he faced Nagato. Even at that distance, Nagato could not control him.

 

[oFuiinJutsuu]

You can't compare Jiraiya's and Itachi's genjutsu. Itachi is by far the best genjutsu user to date. While Jiraiya was good at best.

 

[Avani]

Sage Naruto was enough when he faced Nagato. Even at that distance, Nagato could not control him.

You are refering to a worn out Nagato at the end of the long drawn battle after the destruction of Konoha. I was talking about when he had him pinned down in the very first round.

Even Kakashi was able to surprise Itachi for once. (True but I'm just kidding around.)

That Nagato still used his left over stamina to revive the dead villagers. And Naruto is Naruto- an Uzumaki just like Nagato and has Nine tail fox inside him. Itachi also used Sharingan which drained him not sage power which draws energy from surroundings and keep the user energised.

I forgot to mention Nagato could manipulate five elements as well.

 

[Anub]

You are refering to a worn out Nagato at the end of the long drawn battle after the destruction of Konoha. I was talking about when he had him pinned down in the very first round.

Even Kakashi was able to surprise Itachi for once. (True but I'm just kidding around.)

That Nagato still used his left over stamina to revive the dead villagers. And Naruto is Naruto- an Uzumaki just like Nagato and has Nine tail fox inside him. Itachi also used Sharingan which drained him not sage power which draws energy from surroundings and keep the user energised.

I forgot to mention Nagato could manipulate five elements as well.

Elements don't really count that much in such a battle.

Let's get to a conclusion for this thread

Itachi has a chance of winning if he can catch some bodies with amaterasu, or tsukyiomi or seal them with susano'o. Pain has a chance of winning if he can avoid all that and use chibaku tensei, shinra tensei, summons and so on (cause there's quite a lot). They both have a chance of winning. We could leave it like that until manga gives us more information.

 

[DarkSasuke]

Itachi

 

[Guildmage]

okey first of all i'm new to the forum and hope to dont get flamed =)
but i will state some points out.....
The chances that pain has to beat itachi are higher than everyone thinks it is...
why?
simple:
-a normal jutsus and taijutsu fights: pain makes itachi a fodder in this....... why?? okey pain was able to stop attacks from sage jiraiya and to hold his ground agaisn't a full sage transform naruto(WHICH ARE STRONG IN PHISICAL). And itachi is just agile and quick(strenght feats?? I DONT KNOW THEM).....Nagato owns millions of combinations of jutsus+ his "almighty" technique SHINRA TENSEI, while itachi has... uhhh Katon Jutsu?? Crow Summonings? DAMN LETS SUMMON THE DOGS, RHYNO, BIRD,ETC AND GET THIS PARTY STARTED!!!!!!!!!!!

-Tsukiyomi or Genjutsu= Whatever is the genjutsu, pain if he's intelligent he will use the rain barrier that he uses on rain village. Then that would work for him to know itachi's location, for what will this work?? so pain knows when itachi is near. And for what will this be used for?? so pain can deactivate the body that is near to itachi and dont get trap on the genjutsu. And all this assuming itachi is faster or is equal in speed to pain, because NOONE HERE CAN PROVE ITACHI'S SPEED FEATS.....during the anime(where you can actually see speed feats). In the other hand we have NAGATO'S SPEED FEATS AGAISN'T 6 TAILED NARUTO (which IS a GREAT speed feat). The only chance in genjutsu to work on pain is if nagato is stupid enough to dont do what i just stated. AND ALL OF THIS WOULD BE IF THE RINNEGAN WITHSTANDING MANGEKYO(which is debatable) THEORY IS FALSE. AND ITACHI IS ABLE TO CATCH PAIN/NAGATO OFF ITS GUARD.

-Amaterasu: okey, another debatable topic. In this Itachi will die anyways..... Why?? okey it is known that when you are burning it hurts and that wont let you think clear....
But pain=dead bodies=no pain can be felt by the dead body used by pain. With this stated pain has a calculated of 10 seconds to do something (BEFORE ONLY ONE OF HIS BODIES A MAX OF 2 COULD GO DOWN), in this 10 seconds all 6 bodies(max of two burning) can attack itachi in a weakened stated of after-amaterasu use which IS OBVIOUS THAT WILL HAPPEN. In the other hand it is still not stated if amaterasu can be absorbed by fat pain or reflected by deva path(POINT STILL NOT PROVEN AND STILL DEBATABLE).

-Susanoo= AGAISN'T PAIN IT IS A FODDER TECHNIQUE WITH CHIBAKU TENSEI OR NOT!!!!!!!! I WILL EXPLAIN WHY? quite simple it is stated that totsuka blade will seal someone's soul in eternal genjutsu.....But as far as I know pain are dead bodies with no soul, but controlled by chakra(not a soul included) which is a similar mechanism as the puppet master jutsu.....SO TOTSUKA BLADE IS NO MATCH HERE.....Yata Mirror WILL represent a problem but once again Itachi is being hurt by susanoo's drawback(as stated by sasuke when he used susanoo for a long period during the new episodes of anime). So eventually Itachi will have to turn it off and be vulnerable.
IT HAS NOT BEEN STATED IF SUSANOO CAN MATCH GRAVITATIONAL FORCES!!!!! SO THIS IS ANOTHER DEBATABLE POINT!!

ALL THIS POINTS I HAVE JUST STATED ARE AN HIPOTESIS ANMD EXPERIMENT OF ITACHI ATTACKING AND NAGATO/PAIN DEFENDING...... SO YOU ALL CAN IMAGINE WHAT WILL HAPPEN IF NAGATO TOOK THE OFFENSIVE.

WITH THIS BEING SAID I HOPE WE CAN HAVE A NICE DEBATE HERE =) =) =)

PS: CHIBAKU TENSEI= OVERKILL

 

[Avani]

Elements don't really count that much in such a battle.

Let's get to a conclusion for this thread

Itachi has a chance of winning if he can catch some bodies with amaterasu, or tsukyiomi or seal them with susano'o.

Elements play their role. Yamato fought off Ametsrasu using it. I don't remember if he used wood to quench it or moved earth but he got rid of it one way or another.

Pain has a chance of winning if he can avoid all that and use chibaku tensei, shinra tensei, summons and so on (cause there's quite a lot). They both have a chance of winning. We could leave it like that until manga gives us more information.

Fine by me.

 

[PositiveEmotions]

its a simple fact that pain will win why the discussion ?

 

[oFuiinJutsuu]

its a simple fact that pain will win why the discussion ?

Dude? seriously? please keep idiotic comments like that to yourself. I'm quite sure this thread has no impact on you so why don;t you just let people discuss and stfu yeah ?