[Game] SK-Tower Of God! The Great War!!! #28

[XTMF]

Well, yes, I had a similar argument with another player which in the end was T/T and hence was nothing but waste of time. So I think it is better that we stopped.

So because you've had a t/t argument before, you think that I should just give up questioning you? I take it by this post you think I'm town then.

 

[Just_Red]

funny cause I became the leading wagon after your post I believe so your reasoning for isoing me isn't valid

you don't see the need to vote me or are you afraid of doing so since you know I m town?? which one is it little miss??

No... You have 3 votes when I put it. (i think im not sure) but tbh i saw two posts voting you and decided to check it out by isoing you.

And your shade is weak. If i knew you were town Id vote you straight. Why would I hesitate if I made an entire solid case upon you? That's a stupid move for mafia to make.

You should know that.

 

[XTMF]

We can't just throw all the suspected players under the same cover of the argument that they will be looked into further in the game. Unless you can propose a valid alternative, of course. If not, allow me to ask that you look more closely into his posts and give me a better assessment. You're the one who knows him best, after all.

No I agree with that statement, and if I'm being honest, with the amount of people that have pushed Ratchet because of his play style, his lynch might have some valuable information, but I don't think he's played that scummy this phase nor should be lynched just for information. I've been on Poison since the opening of the game and she hasn't responded that great. There are about three or four others that suspect her too, so I feel like she's a valid alternative. Of course with another twenty-fours still left on the clock, a lot can change. But going after Ratchet simply because of his walls of text doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

[Poison]

OKAY EVERYONE. CALM DOWN WITH THE POSTS.

Let me finish catching up after which I will inevitably point fingers at the wrong person, get into an half assed argument which will make me look shady af coz of my in general lack of motivation and make you guys feel like lynching me.

But we don't want that okay?

Mr. Sezy is here, I hope you won't go like last game, let's RNG be the one to decide.

So because you've had a t/t argument before, you think that I should just give up questioning you? I take it by this post you think I'm town then.

Not exactly, the content of the argument was somewhat similar. And I don't want you to stop questioning me, but are you sure that it would actually help the game and proceed to scum hunt? With the topic you and I was arguing?

 

[AL_sama]

Why did you just shade me and not engage with me in a convo back then?

I wasn't throwing shades I was telling ansa that power wolfing is a possibility

Why did you repeat the same words in 2 different posts regarding your read on me at a pretty big distance in time?

cause I was still feeling the same way

You didn't change your reads at all at least from your first read to the Iso I made. How come? Show me if i am wrong.

why would I change my reads when I was feeling the sme

if just your eyes are observing and the thread don't have a proof for it, how can anyone know about your thoughts and activity? How this helps town?

I was providing my thoughts but yes you can say they weren't much

 

[Just_Red]

We can't just throw all the suspected players under the same cover of the argument that they will be looked into further in the game. Unless you can propose a valid alternative, of course. If not, allow me to ask that you look more closely into his posts and give me a better assessment. You're the one who knows him best, after all.

I've been looking for the referred All Red post that ISOed AL, but I couldn't find it. Can someone link it to me, please? This is the drawback of arriving late into the game.

Here it is boss.

https://animebase.me/threads/sk-tower-of-god-the-great-war-28.776159/post-22021075

 

[AL_sama]

I see, but it's weird you have me in the list. I understand mich, luk who are top posters (?) and people actually have views on them and posts on them what info could you possibly be getting with my lynch, cause I was pretty inactive. And no one has given much reads on me so far. What were your chain of thoughts here?

I asked for your reads and you dipped...what else do you expect??

also your play wasn't your usual town play

 

[XTMF]

I'm sorry but it does not sit well with me how you say 'be insulted' to her. She is the oldest player here and I respect her, which is not necessarily something you should do too, but expecting to get idk what gems you think you will get on early d1 from her on any other player of high standing, idk. She is a player, I personally see in high regards, and it's day 1, she has the capability to change your thoughts here, irrespective of alignments. Let me ask you this, what did you got us so far that you think you can say another player this?

Why are you coming to Michelle's defense on this post when this was so long ago? This is extremely odd for you to bring up, but I suppose I'll answer it. First of all, I don't know how old Michelle is nor do I see why her age or how much you respect her really matter to me or to this game. I don't really know what you mean by 'getting gems' from a player. I'm glad you hold her in high regards, and I'm sure she's a fine human being, but again, I don't really see what this has to do with the game. I never said she couldn't change my thoughts, now you're putting words in my mouth, I just said that I wasn't impressed by her play by what I saw so far, that's it. It wasn't meant to be an insult, it was simply an observation. Could she turn it around and steal the show? Absolutely. But at this point in time her play has been meh so far to me. So when she said she was insulted, I told her to be insulted then because it wasn't meant to be taken that way and I can't help if her feelings were hurt. Should I have said sorry and given her a hug? I didn't think I said anything that outrageous for her to take offense, and if Michelle still feels personally slighted by my comment, then I do apologize. But for you to make me respond to a post like that when it has nothing to do with game play just doesn't sit right to me. Are you trying to look active as you 'catch up'? Are you trying to buddy/pocket Michelle her? Because you sure as hell aren't trying to solve the game with this conversation.

 

[Michelle]

But, mich the post you quoted above this post seems like a fair argument from the other side. What is specifically you don't like Toujo 's behaviour here?

It's about that reads post from Toujo, the post from which Alice gave him a TR. I disliked it and i explained that the connection Toujo made between me and Luke felt like from there could start a scum narrative. You should read what's next in our convo, if needed i will come back at this in the morning, just ask and @ me

 

[XTMF]

They are not your town core, are they in your scum list? Or what are they exactly?

I've already answered this several times and if you aren't going to actually catch up on this game, I don't feel the obligation to repeat myself again.

 

[Tigerrr in the woods]

I did it for you, your turn AL_sama
follow the link to my post, i have your quotes there

Michelle and Al_sama right now feels like this:

You must be registered for see images

 

[AL_sama]

So I am to understand that you playing like you did until recently was a trap. Then the wording in the posts was also constructed.
But by mice falling in your trap you mean people who voted you? Are you suspecting them now?
I would ask what's the point of this trap but I guess it's secret?
So if the mice are the players how can you decide if they are looking to vote for easy lynch or just misled by this constructed lazy you?

I won't tell what I m doing for the time being

 

[XTMF]

@Aether9 I appreciate you Isoing me but tbh you won't find anything cause I never started playing for real here. Everygame I fluff atleast 6-7 pages and start to get things rolling with a slower pace, then I would be serious and questioning stuff. With my inactivity and considerable low posts you won't find much substance there, I would be glad if you would care to ISO me again, when I actually make reads. ^^ I started catching up, although after catching upto everything I'll head to bed and make my readings in the morning, I know it's not something I should ask for, but I still did cause I think me playing the game is just starting. It might sound weirder than it's in my head but that's what I need to tell you and everyone else. I'll go back to p 42.

This is about your fourth gross post in the game. Attach files

 

[Poison]

Did Poison ever come back and post those writeup thoughts?

Oh not yet sir. Also I mentioned here later that the night phase ending write ups hold the most value. But I will read the first write up and tell you for sure, I have 20 more pages to catch up.

I'm SORYY spoilors got messed up again!

EDIT

You must be registered for see images

So many players!

My head literally feels hot rn but I'll keep going.


@Poison
I know you are playing the other game.
I feel you've made much better posts this morning and it feels more like you but there's some things that unsettles me from earlier.
Like why did you feel the need to mention SK and his errors?
It's a minor detail I know but it felt like a distraction maybe.

Spoiler: 1

https://animebase.me/threads/sk-tower-of-god-the-great-war-28.776159/page-9#post-22019786

Also are you actually considering Bee your town core or are you joking/fluffing?
Which one is it?
I can't tell it apart and I don't remember you doing smth like this before in the games we played with a new player.

---

Spoiler: 2

https://animebase.me/threads/sk-tower-of-god-the-great-war-28.776159/page-27#post-22020186

Luke Hmm...despite your one liners, you voice and opinion is very clear. In my view your play feels a bit unstable though like how you vote someone so fast. I don't know what to make of it yet. On one side you seem genuine, and on the other you seem to accuse and vote people very fast.



Very reserved but gave a POE at the end. Is Al sama usually a mysterious/ few words player?

---

Glover- How you can go from a player who posts one liners, to this kind of post? Sorry but it's suspicious to me xD. Are you restraining yourself when you post one liners?
Are you the same person that has been modkilled bc of role revealing?( It's a legit question not being sarcastic -.- )[/SPOILER]

Not sure, I don't think so.

Can you clarify something? l feel you went a bit strangely aggressive on Michelle when she mentioned Poison was sleeping. Why?
I mean I don't think she was even defending Poison, it felt like just mentioning a fact.
Yet you replied like she challenged you?

Gabi, well definitely those bee reads are fluffs. We are supposed to be a team in an upcoming game so we are vibing I guess? But that was pure fluff. And about me mentioning SK well that's a fluff too also, reminding him that he should read after copy pasting. It's not a good habit to copy paste blindly.

 

[Toujo]

That was an essay on how to grasp for straws.

This is not an argument. Your conclusion is not supported by your premise.

When you claim that you don't need to spend all the time defending yourself, I would like to remind you that these very same remarks have been pointed out by several members who are theoretically town (for the same of the argument).

Just because they are Town, does not mean they cannot be wrong. Just because they are Town, does not mean they are incapable of playing scummily (hence my false positive explanation).

And all you've done so far is desperately parroting to push away,

Substantiate this claim, because I have not parroted anything. To be clear, parroting is the act of repeating something someone else has said, and repackaging it as your own point.

instead of addressing them properly.If you're a townie, it would be more worthwhile to address what you claim to be ill-formed arguments, before interrogating other players, as they might very possibly be the leading reason for Town's demise.

This is a No True Scotsman fallacy. It declares a member of the Town will onl react in a certain way, and then asserts that because I have not acted in that way, I must not be a member of the Town. However, it does not establish the premise as fact, so the conclusion drawn is errenous. While there is indeed value in addressing poorly-conceived arguments, it is unreasonable to expect me to address each and every single one. Even just mostly limiting it to people engaging directly with me, you can see the volume of my posts, and people complaining about the length of them.

How do you claim that you simply hadn't paid attention to my post in question when you've referenced it in your own post about your alignment-read on me...?! You've also been all over thread, I can't hold not value to that kind of response.

I did not make this claim. I said I didn't see fit to respond to it. In fact, I very clearly showed that I had paid attention to it, with my characterisation of your post. You can disagree with said characterisation, but you cannot claim that I paid no attention to it, and you certainly can't claim that I claimed to pay no attention to it.

Why exactly would you not address anything that's within the context of AL (And no, they aren't? I've explained this in the last post).

I have already addressed why in my previous post to you:

I didn't address anything at you because I felt no need to do so. You were speaking about me, within the context of AL. Failing any actual accusations, there isn't a lot I can say to them, and there is no value in a one-sided discussion. I don't feel the need to address each and every thing someone says against me. That would require me to spend most of my time defending, and moreover is somewhat overdefensive.

Secondly, just because you say it wasn't within the context of AL< does not make it true. It was addressed to AL, in response to something regarding AL.

Jokes on you, I know well that you have no valid response which is why you're beating around the bush, and even took the initiative to squeeze in that paragraph reciting something about why you didn't address anything I brought up, like you saw my follow-up coming. Indeed, you didn't quite address anything... Except maybe Michelle's vote.

Because I didn't understand it. This was the indication for you to clarify what you meant. You have not done so. You can't accuse me of trying to pre-empt what you're syaing here, while simultaniously claiming to be trying to pre-empt me.

I'll take you on your arguments with Michelle, here's a track-back on how your interaction with Michelle started:

So you've basically implied that you'd be delighted to see her delivering a list of reads on the players. Nothing wrong with that.

I mean, no, not really. I didn't actually imply anything. I directly stated what I wanted from that, and that was the Luk read. Because Michelle claimed to be able to solve that slot by the end of Day 1. Clearly, that's a very early time to be able to solve the alignment of a player, and thus, I was very interested to see the method upon how it was done.

She clearly would've rather delayed her reads, but you've hastily asked for it, and pressured her slightly into opening up, claiming that there's a reasonable amount of time to pull fairly simply tells on the game. Not the most professional, but no problem.... Until she posts her read on Luk based on dozens of pages and previous experience with him... to which you start nitpicking at her intake on the game, and shade her for making a low tier meta read

Christ, can you pay attention please? I did not demand she read Luk there and then. She also gave her criteria for how she would be reading Luk, and said it was a town lean. Based on her criteria, my impression was that she should have been reading him as scum, hence why I questioned it. She then later admitted that it was a low-level read. Given that this was supposed to solve his slot by the end of Day 1, I did not see why she needed to wait until the end of Day 1 to draw a conclusion she is clearly already capable of drawing, and nor did I see why she was so certain in her ability to solve that read by the end of day 1, based on what she was using to read Luk. This has all been explained very clearly over the course of the thread. Please try to keep up with it, as it's one thing to have to explain all this is very elaborate detail, and quite another to have t do so repeatedly.

It's important to note that at the time Michelle had her vote on you.

It's really not. Like I said, that vote was made during the RVS.

You didn't address it, no. You preferred to throw her into a loop of arguments and come out as an overly-skeptic, and an actively scum-hunting town.

I established my problems very clearly, and to a point we managed to address some core conflicts with playstyle, which should help us both get a better read on one another later. It was a worthwhile chain of interactions. You are assigning malicious intent to my actions, without establishing why that is the most reasonable intent to assume. Frankly, you shouldn't be assuming intent at all.

There are other examples where you had been looking for something to pin on your opponent and then attribute their behavior to their intentions, trying to force it into being scummy. This isn't an attitude of an experienced mafia player. Rather an experienced scum.

Except this is clearly untrue. Especially the bolded part - I have gone out of my way to establish whether something is scummy or due to culture clash. More so than anyone has done with me, may I add. If anything, it has been the exact opposite of trying to force something as scummy.

 

[AL_sama]

No... You have 3 votes when I put it. (i think im not sure) but tbh i saw two posts voting you and decided to check it out by isoing you.

yup I saw after posting

And your shade is weak. If i knew you were town Id vote you straight. Why would I hesitate if I made an entire solid case upon you? That's a stupid move for mafia to make.

You should know that.

vote me then come on girl

 

[Just_Red]

yup I saw after posting

vote me then come on girl

Funny.

 

[Poison]

I asked for your reads and you dipped...what else do you expect??

also your play wasn't your usual town play

I feel you mean activity more than play?

Why are you coming to Michelle's defense on this post when this was so long ago? This is extremely odd for you to bring up, but I suppose I'll answer it. First of all, I don't know how old Michelle is nor do I see why her age or how much you respect her really matter to me or to this game. I don't really know what you mean by 'getting gems' from a player. I'm glad you hold her in high regards, and I'm sure she's a fine human being, but again, I don't really see what this has to do with the game. I never said she couldn't change my thoughts, now you're putting words in my mouth, I just said that I wasn't impressed by her play by what I saw so far, that's it. It wasn't meant to be an insult, it was simply an observation. Could she turn it around and steal the show? Absolutely. But at this point in time her play has been meh so far to me. So when she said she was insulted, I told her to be insulted then because it wasn't meant to be taken that way and I can't help if her feelings were hurt. Should I have said sorry and given her a hug? I didn't think I said anything that outrageous for her to take offense, and if Michelle still feels personally slighted by my comment, then I do apologize. But for you to make me respond to a post like that when it has nothing to do with game play just doesn't sit right to me. Are you trying to look active as you 'catch up'? Are you trying to buddy/pocket Michelle her? Because you sure as hell aren't trying to solve the game with this conversation.

No I don't try to look active as I catch up, I'll be active in the morning either way. I commented on that because I felt like commenting on it cause I did not like your comment on her. I'm bringing this up this late is because I'm reading it this late. If that makes sense to you. And nothing really matters age or who Is in high regards, the fact that you were actually expecting something from her and then making a read on her is not something worthy a post from your side as well. You can judge a player whether knowing whether she stands on a good spot in the community or not. And yes. I'm not trying to or planning or think it is in anyway a game solving matter, yet you and I, both write long posts on it. ^^

I've already answered this several times and if you aren't going to actually catch up on this game, I don't feel the obligation to repeat myself again.

I don't scum read you, yet, but we definitely gonna have Tonal clashes. ^^

This is about your fourth gross post in the game. Attach files

I feel special that you are keeping a count.

 

[AL_sama]

Funny.

do you've other reads??

 

[Rej]

thanks I'll get to that in a bit but I've no idea what do you wnna know

I m the leading lynch wagon

whats your opinion on that??

hmm, I can't read you so I am curious on how it evolves and what alternatives may approach, I think I personally will settle down a vote in the last third of the DP, I wouldn't vote you now tho, even when I think that you putting extra effort in here is NAI and doesn't look as towny as you try to project it, because I never leave out the possibility of you being scum

i would prefere to lynch scum.
i need 2 solid town reads this day and for this i need to think at possible lazy inactives too. And i wish to succeed to make a rainbow list tbh.

you still have almost 27 hours, and I feel similair, I try to find solid town reads and then look who is hot for PoE

these are the 3 i've done so far, but more to come. meanwhile i'd like to hear from @Kyte_ @Tigerrr in the woods @Rej @Houtarou @RedGloverKing whats your reads so far(If i've missed them you can quote them, since I am read the thread all of the place). Anyway moving on.

takes some time for me to read Poison Chan, I need time to find something AI in the wallies, but I feel a certain towny energy
I am null on Michelle, but I don't think anything is scummy with her, I just tried to observe the other people conflicted with Michelle to peek on how Mich reacts and to see if any constellation evolves the interest to take out Michelle via lynch, I mean it happens, I even once was a towny with the urgency to lynch Michelle due to paranoia, but this is nothing that leads to a positive result
for AL look above