[Game] SK-Tower Of God! The Great War!!! #28

[Kyte_]

Page 32 : Luk the one word man.
@TheLukundo are they paying you for most post count?

Anyways, Upto this, I think Mich and Toujo interactions are pretty TvT considering how both of them are quite solid from their own PoVs and are trying to make the other see that definitely suggests at least from a third poV (me here) that seems more like a TvT cause I am often finding myself nodding along both of their points?

I've posted my take on their argument, tell me what you think when you reach it.

 

[Poison]

I'm quite disturbed with poison play here I can't seem to decide what read I should give her and it's frustrating considering I always read her easily

Well you can't be making reads pit of me when I barely participated?

I still think your behaviour wasn't towny.

But, mich the post you quoted above this post seems like a fair argument from the other side. What is specifically you don't like Toujo 's behaviour here?

Me and Michelle felt like a scum theatre imo. It felt too easy flowing and the messing around felt forced from an outside perspective imo. I’m probably just bad at jokes or summat. :’(

Cause the best jokes are made by me!!

Also, on a second thought, Toujo's explanations are a bit exaggerated, never played with him before so I don't know what to make out of it exactly, but I think he uses so many words when he can speak his mind withesser words too. It is not something bad or scummy in particular but I think that's what I got from your posts, which are basically from the Toujo vs Mich arc.

 

[AL_sama]

I've been looking for the referred All Red post that ISOed AL, but I couldn't find it. Can someone link it to me, please? This is the drawback of arriving late into the game.

https://animebase.me/threads/sk-tower-of-god-the-great-war-28.776159/page-56#post-22021075

 

[Poison]

Well, be insulted then, I guess. There seems to be people who hold your Mafia play to a high regard, yet, I'm having some trouble seeing it.

And I did make a read on you, it's called null.

Because obviously I trust my scum reads more than I trust his? Besides, do you have any idea what my true objective is with The Supreme Alliance?

I'm curious about it.

Reminder that Poison never followed up on this.

I'm sorry I am yet to read that. But I don't think day 1 would have much to give, it's basically what Night Phase ending write ups have. Previously in one game iirc, me and Ansa were able to get a grasp of possible scum from NP write ups.

Also XTMF why those people in particular, makes it seem as if you’re getting scum to be in alliance. Just so you justify reasons for protecting each other. Also why not the Donquixote Alliance.

I think that would be open wolfing also I don't think wolf would actually do it that way? I think the names are something XTMF is familiar with?

 

[Poison]

Well, be insulted then, I guess. There seems to be people who hold your Mafia play to a high regard, yet, I'm having some trouble seeing it.

And I did make a read on you, it's called null.

I'm sorry but it does not sit well with me how you say 'be insulted' to her. She is the oldest player here and I respect her, which is not necessarily something you should do too, but expecting to get idk what gems you think you will get on early d1 from her on any other player of high standing, idk. She is a player, I personally see in high regards, and it's day 1, she has the capability to change your thoughts here, irrespective of alignments. Let me ask you this, what did you got us so far that you think you can say another player this?

Okay Michelle, you're making me do this now:

The post I quoted of Poison's was post 173. Poison then made another 36(?) posts, last one being post 403. In terms of timespan, that's exactly 1hr 34 minutes inbetween posts. Are you telling me that she could make 36 posts in that timeframe, but couldn't read the OP and post her conclusions? Is that your argument here?

Because if so, er... wew.

Uh, I was in active after that? Also, I can defend myself. But I don't think that's something to defend, if we consider w/w I don't think that's how they would proceed in a game, if you were indicating it that way.

Before I answer your question, I'm curious as to what you're getting at by asking this? I mean, I don't know how experienced you are, but by saying someone is town because 'they wouldn't play like that if they were scum' is so inherently faulty I don't know what to say; any Mafia player worth their salt should be able to fake town if they're scum.

As for how I personally scum hunt, it depends on the situation. However, the first thing I start to explore is how real their contributions are to the game. Is there substance someone's posts/reactions or are they being faked in order to look productive. The biggest thing scum have to do when they play is to blend in with town, which means giving reads and justifying mislynching townies constantly (unless scum bus, but you might clear that person because why on earth would scum do that?). From there, you can branch out in different ways. When it comes to reads, are they consistent, to they make sense, do they have evidence and a basis to exist on. When voting, where is that vote coming from, is it sheeped, does it feel authentic, is it an easy lynch. To sum it up, there are lots of ways you can scum hunt, but I wouldn't say one method is to clear someone by simply saying 'nah, scum wouldn't do that'.

I don't demand they play to my standards Michelle. That would of course be impossible for 99% of the playerlist. I'm asking you. I brought up that Poison seemed to go hunt for info, and then never came back with it. Your response was she's sleeping. I then pointed out that that isn't a vlaid excuse, as she had plenty of time to post her conclusions during the time she was still here. There is nothing asinine there.

So, question. What is prompting this undue defence of Poison? Is it some kind of xenophobic "she's part of my community so I don't want these outsiders to isolate her" mindset? Or is there something else to it? Is Poison unable to address this herself when she comes back?

I rather like this post.

 

[Poison]

You're not supposed to understand The Supreme Alliance. And the people who are part of this alliance is not my town core.

They are not your town core, are they in your scum list? Or what are they exactly?

 

[AL_sama]

This is way easier than Iso-ing Toujo so i did it:
post 333, 4 hours and 30 mins from start:

yes that's exact;y what I felt back then

post 616 7 hours since the game's start:

I was replying to hou about my reads

when did you since the get go?

my eyes were observing you back then

post 727 one hour ago and we are at 9 and half hours since the game started:

you asked my POE I had one so I gave it

is anything else you wanna know??

 

[Poison]

Imperfection is playing in a way that feels very pure to me.
I dig it, especially for an early day 1 read. His follow up reads he posted recently was also fine and didn't make me want to change that read.

I need to fact something on Toujo before I do a write up on him. I accused him of letting his multiball theory effect the way he approached his reads, making it TMI. But he told me I made that up and I his ISO is dense and I am very lazy so I have been to some degree just assuming he is telling the truth. So redact that thought for the time being.

Ngl, I got creeps when you said Too pure. What exactly did you find too pure in his post that is not possible to make as. A scum?

I m going by which lynch will provide more info

I see, but it's weird you have me in the list. I understand mich, luk who are top posters (?) and people actually have views on them and posts on them what info could you possibly be getting with my lynch, cause I was pretty inactive. And no one has given much reads on me so far. What were your chain of thoughts here?

 

[Michelle]

yes that's exact;y what I felt back then

I was replying to hou about my reads

my eyes were observing you back then

you asked my POE I had one so I gave it

is anything else you wanna know??

yes of course.

Why did you just shade me and not engage with me in a convo back then?

Why did you repeat the same words in 2 different posts regarding your read on me at a pretty big distance in time?

if just your eyes are observing and the thread don't have a proof for it, how can anyone know about your thoughts and activity? How this helps town?

You didn't change your reads at all at least from your first read to the Iso I made. How come? Show me if i am wrong.

 

[Poison]

Page 40!!!! Yeay!
Anyways there's something not sitting well with me with Bee-Aether argument. While I found Toujo - Mich arguments rather natural and went with the flow, I find something unsettling with bee-Aether post I will look at it in the morning with a fresh mind.

Fair enough. So what conclusion you've on Michelle after arguing to her for so long?

It's a really good question

I'm still not very impressed, but my conclusion right now is it's more playstyle based than scummy. Still, she's supposed to be replying to more, so we'll see what she has to say then. I would probably move her to null or something.

It's not a good answer. If you know yourself that's the argument is more play style basis why are you continuing something you don't think can get much AI info from?

 

[Michelle]

besides the wallies there is not much else, so it looks quite forced and it could be everything, I dislike the fact that it makes her unreadable, so I don't mind votes on her, if se is a town I don't even see a reason to vouch for her

i would prefere to lynch scum.
i need 2 solid town reads this day and for this i need to think at possible lazy inactives too. And i wish to succeed to make a rainbow list tbh.

 

[Tigerrr in the woods]

Well, yes, I had a similar argument with another player which in the end was T/T and hence was nothing but waste of time. So I think it is better that we stopped.

Oh I see. Thanks. I'm on p 28. I'll catch up soon but I don't think I can be productive today, but I'll be here till I can't help but sleep. But I plan to completely catch up and give at least few reads.

Also, just a question, why are you voting me? My inactivity?

Yes inactivity, I wanted to draw you out

UNVOTE

its not about that

I m seeing people jumping on my wagon with little to no reason whatsoever so why not let the mice come under the trap

So I am to understand that you playing like you did until recently was a trap. Then the wording in the posts was also constructed.
But by mice falling in your trap you mean people who voted you? Are you suspecting them now?
I would ask what's the point of this trap but I guess it's secret?
So if the mice are the players how can you decide if they are looking to vote for easy lynch or just misled by this constructed lazy you?

I still haven't done iso RIP
for tomorrow

 

[Aether9]

I've ISOd Poison, Michelle and AL here, and before starting, I'd like to address that there are some of the post that are old and couldnt address due to missing catching up or busy engaging with others. If there is something I asked that have been already answered, just simply quote them, since I might have missed them.

Poison:
Overall, mostly fluff posts and I cant remember her trying to scum hunt on the thread, the only serious engagements she had were with X and Ratchet though I'll say as it felt like she made a huge deal out of X's "back to back".

Post on Toujo seems TMI. He is just like other new players and you have so much to say about him?

Remember how last time you tried to shade me and get trapped in your own web, got lynched Day 1 and flipped scum? People don't learn from Mistakes it seems. XD

soft push on luk?

I hate players like TSQ, hard to read. @Thestatusquo you die scum.

Definitely for Imp at least. He wrote about him the most, leaving us with less words.

I dont know the point of bringing TSQ when AL was talking about Ratchet.

Well, you actually should not believe in said meta. But just to give you an idea, people would know when I am scum.


Anyways, Guys, just to say this, since I am playing in the champs at this moment I possibly won't be as active as I always am, but I will try to be.

This seems like an odd post, as there are a lot of new players here there is no way for us to know your scum meta.

Ok. Noted. Might dig it up later while re reading the thread.


I like this post, and kind of have a similar question.

Can I ask what was your question? I know its too late but it would be better to read you.

Ah that's true. So do you think he is actually concerned about town and is a town himself?

Alright, I know this is way past that point, but can you tell why you asked this question? What was your read on Imp at that point?

btw, this is about Imps long analysis.

You know, I still think that was a general meaning and your post seems like a really forced getting info out of her post.

is it defending michelle or going after X because he voted you? Because, I dont understand what info can he get from that if he is mafia.

Can't help man, if he is gonna act like Naomi, I will go hard. I have problem with people jumping to conclusions rather than taking a second and trying to understand others point of view.

care to tell how Naomi acted and what happened after you went hard on him?

Luk is probably town. Feels like his last town game. But I'll give proper reads later. I don't have time right now.

Official bye.

Its saturday now, I guess its time you give your reads?

Michelle:

Idk what you smoked but no, when someone shows such self awareness like you and the other don't give a damn like me that means they are never w/w.
In the worst case you are scum but i need time for such read because i didn't mistake your AI in long time and i want to keep the record

IDK but this reaction felt a bit too much after luk saying he thinks he is w/w with michelle, there is no way luk was serious but this reply sure seemed serious.

walk me through this reasoning, you have all time until the others will join the party

Also words are useless, you are a notorious liar in mafia so spare me with 'i am town'

another weird one from michelle, first she says she wants to hear luk's reasoning but in the second line she says his words are useless as she thinks he is a liar, so whats the point of asking his reasoning?

Aside from those opening posts, I dont think I have much issues with her and I feel like I can understand where she is coming from more as town than mafia after isoing her, but I do want to hear what she have to say about those posts. And I will say i didnt like her answering for poison to ratchet, idk why she did that but at least let her do her defendings

AL:

imp's play is looking like forced to me

mich was going somewhere with her fluffs I thought but she stopped all of a sudden which is weird

kyte questioning toujo for questioning me looked like a slight attempt of pocketing

the rest are null so far

seems like low effort read, but thats not the issue, iirc you had problem with michelle's fluffs but also problem with her stopping them?

mich was fluffing with luk and poison so I thought she was going somewhere with this but then she stopped without any follow ups

how can anyone go somewhere with fluffs, I thought you werent liking the fluffs but this tells me otherwise.

yes cause I m not convinced

So let me assume, you werent convinced because michelle reads them as town this early? If thats so whats your issue with that.

cause that's the impression I m getting from you

I've already given my take and noting much changed since then

you see, I am reading your posts but I dont see anything like that so far, if you can be more specific?

I m reading as scum change my mind if possible

tbh I dont remember you explaining why though, is it because of the fluffs or something else, because i dont remember you mention anything other then the fluffs?

I m going by which lynch will provide more info

I am interested to know, what kind of info are you expecting here with the flips, because I saw your list of elimination.

AL is in a weird position, some of his posts are suspicious as he didnt clear what he meant but then again I am not sure what to make of this wagon on him

these are the 3 i've done so far, but more to come. meanwhile i'd like to hear from @Kyte_ @Tigerrr in the woods @Rej @Houtarou @RedGloverKing whats your reads so far(If i've missed them you can quote them, since I am read the thread all of the place). Anyway moving on.

Lol I was never vague. Please enlighten me on how I was vague?

I literally said that in that post, here

This is basically beeboat's problem which I already addressed, you can go and read if you havent. If that was your problem from the start, why didnt you specifically say that instead of being vague, because I've been asking you whats the specific reason for 3 or 4 post and now you decided to say that. Feels like you are trying to stall it for some reason, which town has no reason to do that i can think of.

anyway seems like seems like you have no issues with the other things i mentioned. Good to know.

YOU mean me Questioning AL? If its about AL,
Al is questioning IMP's effort while he's not amking any read himself. Try to appreciatte other's effort sometimes.

I dont know why are you bringing that up again as I've already said I had no problem with imp's effort, its about YOU QUESTIONING al.

@Aether9 @XTMF reads on Touju?

and AL?

Toujo is null as he can be anything no doubt, but so far I dont have any problem with him, as for AL he is leaning slight scum atm.

You are saying that you play scummy on purpose to avoid getting NKed? That is your personal play style and I have no problem with it, but I have one question for you, if you play scummy, don't you think that town would get confused with your play and that's a diversion from actual scum hunting? How would you like to proceed with having a meant to be scummy read on you to scum hunting? I don't mean to question your play style but it is something I wanted to ask.

played scummy in the past to avoid NK'd, yea. but tbh i dont think i play scummy, thats what others think, maybe when I am overconfident, people may think that is scummy but again, i dont see that to myself, as I expect them to understand where I am coming from.

 

[Poison]

Give me some examples of that changing playstyle.

Have she played like Nova or PurpleCelestial as scum?

As for Nova example, I mean not about relationship but her posting style.

I don't understand your mentioning two players who are not in the game at all or are known really well by most player here to get a better comparison?

Yeah I agree with this. I know that post from Imp wasn't giving much or useless. But when reading that kind of post please don't trying to find an information(where logically there's none) but try to get/find the vibe produced by that post/by imperfection. Or trying to understand what could be his mindset here.


@Poison chan said Imperfection's read on Toujo came from TMI. That's what she felt.

Can you elaborate @Poison chanhan how is that reading coming from TMI?

Okay, I thught that was TMI bra use he had so much to say about new player in particular and not the other new players. As if he had conversed with Toujo in particular or about Toujo with someone else.

I went on a walk, came home drank some tea and deeply thought about my read on you.

Maybe I missed that part with X where you pointed out it was useless? I truly don't remember that post so I've been playing as if the post doesn't exist. I concede on that interaction mainly because Toujo told me it was within your range to play like that.

I held my read because I felt like you were pressuring me over a "gotcha" moment on my use of "depth" twice when I was explaining what I meant in each instance and how they differed. I am starting to lose that original feeling of you just hammering it down on me and it feels more like an attempt to identify the meaning behind my posts?

I mean part of me is backing off to see what you do with new found space on the rest of the player base in addition to 2 of my main reasons for voting you being a lot more dull then where I originally began.


unvote
vote: AL_sama

I am going to vibe with Michelle for a bit.

Is this a pressure vote? What do you mean exactly by vibe with mich for a bit?

You should focus on other players then. We're not dealing with only one anti town here.

As for me Poison leaning slightly towards town currently. And it's not coming from some specific posts but her entire activity so far.

Not entirely Meta read. But from understanding, intuition and the way she's posting in this game.

Town Poison also is more outspoken(yes, this is Meta read). She's always getting scum read from that outspoken attitude and will tunnel someone that got strong opinion on her opinion/thought or clash of understanding.

Case for example;
-Naomi in the previous game.
-X inside this game.

But this tunneling behavior actually is quite beneficial for town to read Poison and get a better picture of her actual alignment.

For me she still needs to do more like prodding player, scum hunting etc.

That's why I only gave her a slight town lean. She's not totally green yet.

That's actually good, but Ansa don't you think my activity is nothing like my town self yet? I mean if not the top poster myself, I still run around everywhere in the thread, making more substance than I did here? I don't see why would you town read me so early? You don't do that often you know. Back during my Naomi arguments, you were there, but I still think my posts were worth town reading yet you had confusions to town read me, then why are you town reading me so early this time?

 

[Toujo]

Sigh, I just went through collecting a bunch of quotes only for half of them to disappear. I really wish there was a better multi quote feature, but ah well.

 

[Poison]

@Aether9 I appreciate you Isoing me but tbh you won't find anything cause I never started playing for real here. Everygame I fluff atleast 6-7 pages and start to get things rolling with a slower pace, then I would be serious and questioning stuff. With my inactivity and considerable low posts you won't find much substance there, I would be glad if you would care to ISO me again, when I actually make reads. ^^ I started catching up, although after catching upto everything I'll head to bed and make my readings in the morning, I know it's not something I should ask for, but I still did cause I think me playing the game is just starting. It might sound weirder than it's in my head but that's what I need to tell you and everyone else. I'll go back to p 42.

 

[Just_Red]

They don’t seem to be in charge the way they did either 1 or 2 games back and their case on AL seems too constructed.

If your looking for this again. Your going to be let down. Just a heads up.

 

[XTMF]

@XTMF

Thank you. It said it said countdown TO D1 so I was a bit confused.

 

[Just_Red]

What do you think about Luke's take on your case?

Couldnt care less. Its not an actual case.

 

[XTMF]

When do you think one posts superficially? Are you soft shading him?

Why when you respond to me it always feels like you're low key accusing me of something? Go catch up with the game and you'll see my explanations and reads of Aether and this will make more sense. Very selective narrative you have here.