[Game] Drinks of Sophistication - Mafia Game #20

[TheLukundo]

There isn’t a tldr is there?

 

[TheLukundo]

On a very quick skim, SK is scum cause of how fucking awkward he was when he was like “wow! So shocked to be alive. Maybe it’s a good thing, maybe it’s a bad thing, idk man”

 

[SoulKiller]

On a very quick skim, SK is scum cause of how fucking awkward he was when he was like “wow! So shocked to be alive. Maybe it’s a good thing, maybe it’s a bad thing, idk man”

lol i knew someone would point that out and throw shade about it and accuse me of being scum for it, not surprised as well it's you who pointed it out. I was being super serious about it too if it helps your reads.

 

[SoulKiller]

I am considering your viewpoint and I can’t make sense of it. I told you that I do agree with your opinion on the Michelle interaction, but everything else I disagree with.

When you look at it from scum play. everything does make sense and it adds up.

I think that it’s bad practice to go for deep wolves, chasing ghosts when we haven’t even ruled out the people that aren’t doing anything. Just because we mislynched on day one, doesn’t mean there are deep wolves. It’s a hasty conclusion and it can cost us a lot.

Never a bad practice to go after deep wolves when you catch one, he ain't no ghost and it's real. Oh don't worry i have my eyes on everyone else. It's just that now i have to look for the other scum members. I already have one right now with ansa.

Please, take your time and truly evaluate. If you’re doing this because you wish Ansa was a bad guy and you will get the credit for it, then you’re doing it wrong. It’s called confirmation bias.

I am not trying to take credit for anything. I read last dp multiple times and the only conclusion i came up with ansa actions is that he is scum. It just makes sense.

If he’s truly a mafia then he’ll slip up worse than that michelle thing. This conversation right here would pressure him into acting a lot more careful as well.

If he is truly mafia then we have one mafia down. A deep wolfer gone from the git go. It will also help us to root down the rest of the mafia team.

 

[SoulKiller]

Also, i would really much like for the other players who were not as active in dp1 to contribute more please. I want to see everyone opinion about the current situation if possible and what they are thinking right now. Who is their suss etc.

 

[Thestatusquo]

You see a good mafia will make minimum mistakes that hints him at being scum and will do alot of townie stuff to trick the players. Which is why you don't look at it from the perspective "oh this kid did more good than harm then he is townie most likely". How do you crack deep wolfer? when he does that one mistake that reveals his true identity that's when you strike him down.

A good mafia is taken out by process of elimination. As a town, you “vibe” with other towns. You can tell who other towns are. It’s easier to find town than it is to find scum. Let’s make a test, note down who you think town is right now and who you think scum is. Post your result after the game in terms of how accurate you were with your town reads than the scum ones.

And even so, if you say a good mafia will make minimum mistakes, then why do you have a scum case on Ansa with literally everything he’s done ? Isn’t that kind of contradicting yourself? If he was that good of a player, he wouldn’t slip up that badly, as you said...

However, from how you presented that “you hit them when you see that” information, I can tell that the crux of your case is based on the Michelle interaction.

Being able to differentiate from things that are looking scummy and things that are going to make someone actually more likely to be scum is really hard to master.

In order not to fall to the confirmation bias, try this instead. Read Ansa’s posts with the whole context (basically re-read the whole game) and try to see why he’s town, instead of scum. If you can’t find any reason to call him town, then fine.

I will also touch on why it is really necessary to do this...Again, it’s the core mechanic of the game. Villagers will be a lot more scummier than scum will be. It’s just the nature of the game, villager’s do stupid shit. In the end, it comes down to whether they have an agenda or not. Would those actions benefit them?

Looking at this fact and keeping it in mind, it’s detrimental for you to try to look for scummy stuff. Don’t. Look for town stuff. Look for natural thought process. See if it makes sense and if you can follow it. Ask yourself questions like “If I were in his shoes and I wouldn’t know anyone’s alignment, would I ask that question?”. See if they’re trying to figure people’s alignments out through their questions, etc.

Now, to put this in perspective. Take a look at Oreki.

Let me take each of his questions and prove to you

~~~~~~

K so here I was gonna take all of his posts but I’m on mobile and it’s 1 AM and I just can’t be bothered to do it. I will make it though, lynch me if I won’t.

I’ll get on PC and make a beautiful case, if I don’t do it in maximum 10 hours, speedlynch me

In the meantime, SK, please take a look at Oreki’s questions and try to use the template that I provided. See if he follows up on his questions. Most of them don’t serve a purpose for solving anyone’s alignment, just to show he’s somehow participating with “something”

Read his questions, ask yourself “Would I be asking this if I were in his shoes and didn’t know anyone’s alignment?” Remember, scum only have to fake being interested in sorting someone’s role, they already know the answer. Let me know if it gives you the same feeling as it does to me.

Try to figure what his intentions are when asking questions, see what mentality is behind every post, etc.

 

[SoulKiller]

And even so, if you say a good mafia will make minimum mistakes, then why do you have a scum case on Ansa with literally everything he’s done ? Isn’t that kind of contradicting yourself? If he was that good of a player, he wouldn’t slip up that badly, as you said...

However, from how you presented that “you hit them when you see that” information, I can tell that the crux of your case is based on the Michelle interaction.

yes the michelle interaction is the main reason for all of it, and because i view him as scum because of his interaction with michelle after going through them multiple times. When i look at the other stuff he did it makes sense from a scum perspective it adds up on the main point. So, no i am not contradicting myself here. If you look at it from this perspective where he is a scum who is deep wolfing things will start making more sense.

Anyways, I got a party i need to catch up too so will be here sometime tomorrow mytime. In the mean time.

You must be registered for see images

Really interested to see what people will do from this point on.

 

[Alice in Noodleland]

For whatever reason I feel like all voters yesterday were town and that no scum has voted. Only 5 votes. This theory would imply that there’s a high possibility all people on the stand were town, hence the mafia didn’t really feel the need to put themselves on a wagon of any mislynch.

For whatever reason I feel there's something wrong with this post. so You automatically town read everyone who voted last DP and those non voters are Mafia
im going to use Noami's post whom btw im leaning town. The way she reacted to Michelle's posts seems rawand very genuine


Chronical Voting Order:
Thestatusquo -> Kyte_
All_Red -> Thestatusquo
Thestatusquo -> All_Red
Michelle -> Ansatsuken
Ansatsuken -> Michelle
TheLukundo -> All_Red
Michelle ->
Ansatsuken ->
SoulKiller -> TheLukundo
TheLukundo -> SoulKiller
PaperBoiKonan -> Thestatusquo
Thestatusquo -> Kyte_
Ansatsuken -> Kyte_
TheLukundo ->
TheLukundo -> Kyte_
PaperBoiKonan ->
SoulKiller -> Corazon




question statusquo why did you locked your vote on Kyte

 

[Michelle]

Happy to wake up at 4:20 am

Catched up but I can't promise more than 10% brain power.. most probably I'll go back to sleep

I’ll be back in 48 hours once I’ve read SK’s post.

If I wasn't grumpy because it's 5 am I would maybe chuckle at this. Don't give me that and put your head in the game. Thanks.

I will do the exercise SK is proposing, to reread searching for towny points I will quote and explain my thoughts.
Btw I don't scum read SK because he is alive, last game we lost him in night 1 and I think he was maybe protected if targeted.. idk, this was my feeling at the Sod.

 

[Michelle]

One more thing Luke, you do the same homework like me please

 

[Just_Red]

Wow the exchange between those two was deep. Unfortunately I have to side with SK searching for deep wolf, though isnt ideal, in this snario should be done. Being as we have no actual leads on anyone and from what I read the most off player is indeed Ansa. Then me and finally Status. So with that set in stone, I'll vote Ansa later this dp. I have 48 hours to burn, instead, I'll vote someone has interacted with my our most sus player.
Vote Lynch @Michelle
Two questions: what do you think of Ansa? The current situation with him?
Status and Sk, who do you think had the better point? Who do you think was right?

 

[Ansatsuken]

Ok I'm back now. Some interesting things showing up inside this DP now. I'm sure going to check it up.

First of all I want touch on Kyte's lynched. It's so unfortunate that Kyte doesn't being really helpful in the process of clearing up the situation involving us. I've made myself ready to hear his opinion and idea. Said something that can change my mind about him. I even remind him that we only got less than three hours. Means there's not much time left. I waited entire hours for his next response. Kyte failed to change my perception about him because he failed to respond properly. My scum perception on him stayed because of that. And he then finally back into the game with something valuable but that's after EOD. Its too late for any changes.

In his last post he has said give a look at Michelle and SoulKiller. He said Michelle is too emphasize a TR on her.

But it's not all murky. This lynch has given us with something positive in return. I call it as "bait for hungry scum".

I guess one scum has ate it and stuck on fishhook.

I've anticipated it since long ago and I'm ready to give them a reality check.

 

[Ansatsuken]

Ansa, mind explaining why you felt the need to unvote Michelle? Was it just because she unvoted as well? Or was it her last explanation of why she voted you? If It’s the latter, mind explaining to me what made you change your mind aboMut her from that post?

It because she unvotes me. That's why I cancelled my vote on her. She started it first by voting on me. Using False Meta Reading as her reasoning to vote me. What makes me unable to tolerate that vote is because of her reasoning to vote me. I feel like credibility of my town playing style was being put into a question, being debased and wrongly used against me. I take this matter very seriously than getting a vote. I just saw someone who's trying to manipulate.

So when she's the one who started it thus she should be the person to end it. By recognizing what has she done wrong. She said I'm suspecting her. She said when you're suspecting someone make sure you vote them. But how I'm suspecting her when I'm not yet having any list of suspect?? Plus I'm not suspecting her but just playing with something(her posts) that could telling a clue or could be not.


Looks very much like a false accusation to me.

My confidence was a bit shaken on my Ansa read because I have re-read and his initial conversation with Michelle developed weirdly. He basically shaded her but then he blamed her for calling him out on it. His initial accusation was based on something that not a lot of towns would see, I guess you could say it was one of those “gotcha moments”. He accused her based on something that can be misinterpreted for TMI, even though Michelle’s intention was never to give a read on alice.

She calling me out because I'm not voting her after all that so called suspicion gathering because for her that's not how town Ansa playing.

Where's the blame here?

I said "it smells TMI." "Smells" here can be read as Ansa stating a possibility. So how is that an accusation? Unless I said it in the most direct way like for example "This post got TMI" or "This post is TMI"

And then Houtarou asked me to clarify it. To answer Houtarou I borrowed Lukundo's line of thought. You can check our previous Game on how Lukundo used TMI to read me. Tbh I just wanted to make fun to his approach. Yes Luku is right that I'm a scum in that game but the tool he used to suspect me is so simple that no body cares about his push on me.

But how I used it on Michelle is not meant to take very serious. Who gonna believe that simple statement. Even I know that. But Michelle had a different view.

Compared it to how I put a suspect on Kyte. That I'm being serious to suspect someone.

In a simplified manner, Ansa was too eager to find something he can accuse someone of, therefore he didn’t really try to figure Michelle’s intention in her post / what she meant to say. Basically, he took something that would be ordinary and transformed it into scummy. Hope you understood what I said.

If we already have a lot of experience playing mafia sometimes a simple post contains a hidden clue. It just between whether you can catch it or not.

Reading a clue =/= putting scum read on player.

I’m still deciding on how much this shakes my initial read, but I won’t focus too much on Ansa. If he ends up in F3, he should be an insta-lynch. If he’s town, he shouldn’t get to live a lot either.

We will see.

 

[Ansatsuken]

SK you're next. Wait till I get back home.

 

[Naomi_Rose]

Happy to wake up at 4:20 am

Catched up but I can't promise more than 10% brain power.. most probably I'll go back to sleep


If I wasn't grumpy because it's 5 am I would maybe chuckle at this. Don't give me that and put your head in the game. Thanks.

I will do the exercise SK is proposing, to reread searching for towny points I will quote and explain my thoughts.
Btw I don't scum read SK because he is alive, last game we lost him in night 1 and I think he was maybe protected if targeted.. idk, this was my feeling at the Sod.

does he die early while town in most games?

so far his post read town, trying to find scum. with taking risk (he reminds me of other player who did that)


Town reads
alice
Sk
(will update)

 

[Michelle]

does he die early while town in most games?

so far his post read town, trying to find scum. with taking risk (he reminds me of other player who did that)


Town reads
alice
Sk
(will update)

I am not sure about the reason you are asking this, especially because you give him a town read. Mind to explain it to me?

 

[Naomi_Rose]

I am not sure about the reason you are asking this, especially because you give him a town read. Mind to explain it to me?

??

well it should be obvious, he scum hunting? As he analyzing each point. This feels like town action.

Unless he deep wolfing while searching for the wolf? (jokes aside)

Michelle, can you explain why your jumping on easy explanations? It looks more like your looking for excuse? This is the impression i'm getting from you.

 

[Michelle]

But how I used it on Michelle is not meant to take very serious. Who gonna believe that simple statement. Even I know that. But Michelle had a different view.

I am very used with indirect stances who are going into mislynch actions so your "smells" was pretty sneaky for me and I reacted instantly.
The bolded is a curious sentence. Even you know what? That you joked? How was I supposed to know you joked when nothing gives this idea? Not an emoticon, nothing except a sentence not well related with the fact I as town told Alice that she has to be active in town benefit. That wasn't a town read for Alice. Even you should know that.
I won't search my exact words rn I told you this from the top of my head but if needed we can go into semantics deeper.

 

[Michelle]

does he die early while town in most games?

so far his post read town, trying to find scum. with taking risk (he reminds me of other player who did that)


Town reads
alice
Sk
(will update)

I am not sure about the reason you are asking this, especially because you give him a town read. Mind to explain it to me?

Let's reformulate. Idk why do you ask if he dies early as town. That was your only question in the post.

??

well it should be obvious, he scum hunting? As he analyzing each point. This feels like town action.

Unless he deep wolfing while searching for the wolf? (jokes aside)

Michelle, can you explain why your jumping on easy explanations? It looks more like your looking for excuse? This is the impression i'm getting from you.

My question was not why do you town read SK. My question was why do you ask if he dies early, when you town read him? A town read needs to be questioned and analised further? How this info would help you in town reading him or how the memory of the games played together may improve your read about him or about me?

If this is me jumping to easy explanations the fact you may consider me simple minded makes me scum? I am looking for excuse for what? Explain more this idea please, I don't follow...

 

[Naomi_Rose]

Let's reformulate. Idk why do you ask if he dies early as town. That was your only question in the post.


My question was not why do you town read SK. My question was why do you ask if he dies early, when you town read him? A town read needs to be questioned and analised further? How this info would help you in town reading him or how the memory of the games played together may improve your read about him or about me?

If this is me jumping to easy explanations the fact you may consider me simple minded makes me scum? I am looking for excuse for what? Explain more this idea please, I don't follow...

No I was commenting if this is normal if he dies early? Because everyone joking about it. I even said from the start i'm not familiar with everyone here to form strong opinion on reads.

and no, i find it sus from your post, not just me. How every time you question someone. And no I never called you simple minded, nor do i think you are.

Why are you making it seem like i think less of you?