Proof that EMS Madara didn't have PS

[HowDidIGetPrem]

I've already done this thread a bunch of times now, and the reasons why he doesn't have it are very obvious. Sasuke and Madara had never made a standalone PS without Kurama's assistance UNTIL they received Rikudo Chakra. The only proofs I've actually considered to refute this are Madara's conversation with Onoki and the Kages.

The first being that Onoki asked why Madara held back when Madara revealed he had PS. Madara responded with saying "why go full force against children." The implication of this proof is that Madara not stating "I couldn't use this back then" meant that he could, but overall it's weak proof. Madara not saying he couldn't use PS DOESN'T mean he could have used PS. Beyond that, Onoki's question only referred to Madara holding back DESPITE the question being triggered by him seeing PS. Madara didn't necessarily have to have PS back then to answer truthfully, just to have been holding back against Onoki.

The second is that Madara says "they say everyone who sees it dies." Here's the ULTIMATE proof that Madara didn't have Susanoo. If Madara were using this line with ANY sincerity whatsoever, that'd mean Hashirama died soon after seeing PS. He didn't. Hashirama died years or maybe decades later. Furthermore, EVEN if EMS Madara had PS we don't even know of anyone else he'd use it against.

Things that don't add up:

1. Apparently there were rumors of PS, yet Onoki had never heard the rumors to even know that Madara had PS. It should be noted that Onoki wasn't a dumb random when he was younger, but among the Kages who viewed Madara as a threat. You know, Kages, the people who all information is reported to.

2. The rumors claim everyone who sees PS dies. Hashirama didn't die to it, and was probably the ONLY enemy Madara would whip it out on considering his statement about children and whatnot.

3. Madara saying "they say" at all. If the fact pertained to him, he'd flat out say "everyone who sees it dies."

4. Not only did Onoki fail to learn of those rumors and PS, so did the 5 Kage and they were actively trying to learn more about Madara. How convenient that the most fearsome rumor regarding Madara is also literally unheard of.

Now here's some certain facts:

1. Indra had PS.
2. Madara is well read on history regarding The Sage of Six Paths. He may have even taught Obito about the stupid legend behind the Sword of Nunoboko, so what are the odds of him not learning of Indra's PS?
3. Ashura had allies in troves when he challenged Indra.

Everything indicates that these are ancient rumors he read/heard regarding Indra's PS.

 

[Nomu]

It’s sad that you typed all of that just to be wrong.

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[Xlad]

...

Funny how things haven't changed.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

It’s sad that you typed all of that just to be wrong.

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without Kurama's assistance

 

[Nomu]

Spoiler

this

He used while separated from Kurama completely, Sasuke didn’t. It’s not even debatable.

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[HowDidIGetPrem]

He used while separated from Kurama completely, Sasuke didn’t. It’s not even debatable.

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1. He's connected to Kurama in that panel and is clearly grabbing the tails
2. That's not PS

 

[Nomu]

1. He's connected to Kurama in that panel and is clearly grabbing the tails
2. That's not PS

You’re delusional and blind obviously and it is the giant, unstable Perfect Susanoo. Keep crying, kid.

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[HowDidIGetPrem]

You’re delusional and blind obviously and it is the giant, unstable Perfect Susanoo. Keep crying, kid.

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1. There is no body beneath the head. The photo that you just linked does have a body beneath the head.

2. Madara's Susanoo was the equivalent of this one

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not that one you've shown above vs the Five Kages

3. If you stan Madara, you're probably another one of those guys who always boast about how Madara's PS dwarfs all the others. It's possible his V3 Susanoo does too.

4. The two Susanoos are completely different sizes.

 

[Nomu]

1. There is no body beneath the head. The photo that you just linked does have a body beneath the head.

2. Madara's Susanoo was the equivalent of this one

Spoiler

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not that one you've shown above vs the Five Kages

3. If you stan Madara, you're probably another one of those guys who always boast about how Madara's PS dwarfs all the others. It's possible his V3 Susanoo does too.

4. The two Susanoos are completely different sizes.

1. There is a body underneath Madara, there just isn’t a back. Learn basic anatomy if you’re going to have serious discussions.

2. Obviously it isn’t lol. Try harder

3. Just because I proved you wrong effortlessly doesn’t mean I “Stan” a character.

4 Both of Madara’s unstable perfect susanoo uses were the size of Hashirama’s wood golem. You couldn’t have failed harder if you wanted to.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

1. There is a body underneath Madara, there just isn’t a back. Learn basic anatomy if you’re going to have serious discussions.

2. Obviously it isn’t lol. Try harder

3. Just because I proved you wrong effortlessly doesn’t mean I “Stan” a character.

4 Both of Madara’s unstable perfect susanoo uses were the size of Hashirama’s wood golem. You couldn’t have failed harder if you wanted to.

1. Unless you want to explain why the body of Madara's Perfect Susanoo is only about as tall as Kurama's kneecaps are high, just drop this argument altogether. There is clearly no body in this panel.

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2. Relies on 1, no need to go further.
3. idc
4. Doesn't mean Madara used PS, even if it's true. Also, scans needed.

 

[Nomu]

1. Unless you want to explain why the body of Madara's Perfect Susanoo is only about as tall as Kurama's kneecaps are high, just drop this argument altogether. There is clearly no body in this panel.

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2. Relies on 1, no need to go further.
3. idc
4. Doesn't mean Madara used PS, even if it's true. Also, scans needed.

Wow, I didn’t think you were this...off. So the wood golem is just floating then according to you. Lol this is sad.

The scan you just used showed the susanoo being the height of the golem also but here is another. The Tengu mask isn’t even covering its face in this one either.

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[HowDidIGetPrem]

Wow, I didn’t think you were this...off. So the wood golem is just floating then according to you. Lol this is sad.

The scan you just used showed the susanoo being the height of the golem also but here is another. The Tengu mask isn’t even covering its face in this one either.

Spoiler

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Good to see you dropped point 1 altogether. My win.
As for the sizes, I do still believe they're different. If the golem were to punch the face of Madara's PS, it'd have to punch upwards because Madara's PS is a bit taller. When it punched Madara/Kurama's tails, it punched downwards, therefore the Susanoo we saw Madara using was shorter than his PS. That aside, there's also the fact that the golem is significantly closer than Madara's PS hence its hand being about the size of the chest of Madara's PS.

 

[Nomu]

Good to see you dropped point 1 altogether. My win.
As for the sizes, I do still believe they're different. If the golem were to punch the face of Madara's PS, it'd have to punch upwards because Madara's PS is a bit taller. When it punched Madara/Kurama's tails, it punched downwards, therefore the Susanoo we saw Madara using was shorter than his PS. That aside, there's also the fact that the golem is significantly closer than Madara's PS hence its hand being about the size of the chest of Madara's PS.

Save the delusion, Madara was separated from Kurama and visibly seen in the Susanoos crystal. The susanoo was just drawn that height; big swords and huge stature = my win. The scans I posted crowed me anyway, you’re arguing against the author at this point. I am glad to see you dropped the “Madara Stan” argument altogether though. Now learn anatomy, kid lol.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Save the delusion, Madara was separated from Kurama and visibly seen in the Susanoos crystal. The susanoo was just drawn that height; big swords and huge stature = my win. The scans I posted crowed me anyway, you’re arguing against the author at this point. I am glad to see you dropped the “Madara Stan” argument altogether though. Now learn anatomy, kid lol.

They weren't completely separated. Besides, here's a scan of PS vs the golem from a different perspective.

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The perspective is clearly closer to Madara's PS, but that's besides the point. The golem extends its hands above its head ONLY to reach the wrists of Madara's PS. Thus, the golem's height is somewhere around the midsection of Madara's PS. In the scan with Kurama, Madara's Susanoo is actually a bit shorter than the golem. While you're looking at this panel, take a look at how short the golem's legs are. I didn't think the golem floated as you say, I just knew it had small legs.

Wow, I didn’t think you were this...off. So the wood golem is just floating then according to you. Lol this is sad.

Again, why haven't you addressed point 1? There is clearly no body in that panel and you've yet to refute the fact. The size is entirely irrelevant, but you'd rather argue whatever you find easier.

 

[Nomu]

They weren't completely separated. Besides, here's a scan of PS vs the golem from a different perspective.

Spoiler

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The perspective is clearly closer to Madara's PS, but that's besides the point. The golem extends its hands above its head ONLY to reach the wrists of Madara's PS. Thus, the golem's height is somewhere around the midsection of Madara's PS. In the scan with Kurama, Madara's Susanoo is actually a bit shorter than the golem. While you're looking at this panel, take a look at how short the golem's legs are. I didn't think the golem floated as you say, I just knew it had small legs.



Again, why haven't you addressed point 1? There is clearly no body in that panel and you've yet to refute the fact. The size is entirely irrelevant, but you'd rather argue whatever you find easier.

Lol kid, the wood golem is clearly bending his knees. So is it impossible to assume that Madara’s unstable susanoo was doing the same in the scans? Hashirama was aiming low therefore Madara had kneel to reach the perfect angle to block his blow from.

But regardless of that, I proved you wrong and you’re arguing against the established facts. And that is why you’re delusional, have fun up in the clouds.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Lol kid, the wood golem is clearly bending his knees. So is it impossible to assume that Madara’s unstable susanoo was doing the same in the scans? Hashirama was aiming low therefore Madara had kneel to reach the perfect angle to block his blow from.

But regardless of that, I proved you wrong and you’re arguing against the established facts. And that is why you’re delusional, have fun up in the clouds.

The wood golem is pretty much always bending its knees. There's literally not a SINGLE manga panel where it doesn't as far I know. That's its default height, so it doesn't really matter.

 

[Gerkak]

Madara had PS, Sasuke didn't.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

You’re delusional and blind obviously and it is the giant, unstable Perfect Susanoo. Keep crying, kid.

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Thread destroyed. Nothing else to do here.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Thread destroyed. Nothing else to do here.

as if. you're just another fool who thinks PS has legs shorter than Kurama's calves. The head of madara's PS is like 1/12th the size of its body, thus it's literally impossible for the body to be there because there's not enough space.

 

[Nomu]

as if. you're just another fool who thinks PS has legs shorter than Kurama's calves. The head of madara's PS is like 1/12th the size of its body, thus it's literally impossible for the body to be there because there's not enough space.

Crying doesn’t change facts, so you can keep doing it but EMS only Madara has always had the PS lol.