[Game] Our loved Mangakas and their masterpieces Mafia Game #19
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Ansatsuken
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Ansatsuken
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This is my list of Scum potential after enough observation and reading.
-Sagebee
-Rej
-Naomi(slightly)
I will be back to decide.
-Sagebee
-Rej
-Naomi(slightly)
I will be back to decide.
Naomi_Rose
Active member
I asked for sub, i'm not interest in playing.
But i will note from what i read, for remaining day phase.
People who jumped on rej, look opportunist to me, and even used inactivity as excuse on me. without knowing my personal reasons.
I honestly find that play bad.
But i will note from what i read, for remaining day phase.
People who jumped on rej, look opportunist to me, and even used inactivity as excuse on me. without knowing my personal reasons.
I honestly find that play bad.
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Time to clean up this mess.
ISO on mothbomb:
Entrance stage:
Again first hour in the game analyse and see where things are going, since at this point moth has 5 pages of ISO, I will go superficial on his essential playstyle, explaining why it is not civillian.
After the ISO on moth I will mostly follow with interaction analysis.
Some people should keep ready an alternative wagon zehahaha.
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Besides the following null posts, I will mostly count this as entrance.
First off does his first post to Misa make zero sense, that question basically goes this way "Are you town that way or town that way?" because if she is obvious to herself, then she implies to her own role, getting a civillian role, if she would be obvious town to us, then she would announce open towning, which basically almost happened with her softclaim.
So yeah mothbomb here enters with a cwac post, then calling my post good, which was a gut read.
All in all moth was open, showing his readyness to engage with multiple people, this is a consistent entrance mentality he showed over the past games too. Only thing that looked bad was the town/town question to Misa.
Again agressive, but even if the mindset here is funny and I agree with it, Poison Chan didn't make the best post back then and the conclusion wasn't rly there, but we know that this post also was one of the big starts to get the Red tizzy running.
The way Red was "take caren" of was quite scummy, and back to one of your current posts where you stated I suddenly suspect you, no I started to have you as one of my neg reads when the Red tizzy was litting up.
So moths entrance phase directly ties into the start up of the "Red tizzy".
still entrance stage, a post dedicated to explain his civillianesse, this is basically wifom
at this point besides gut reads and fluff there was nothing indicating that you were scumhunting or presenting space to read you as civ.
We are also at a point where we wait for replies for the mothquotes, so besides wifom this also comes close to fluff at this stage and it is not underlining what he really meant to present, a scumhunting civillian.
And as we see later on moth only reduces certain individuals.
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that someone was me, and as Naomi's friend I felt like giving some head ups, as you see I did it before and guess what I flipped? definitely not mafia
great so we tested the activity of Naomi and came to the conclusion that we have a player that doesn't care about this game
back then I didn't have this theory, but what about you placing a bus vote here? and yes this tinfoil gains strenght the more confirmed Naomi is to be inactive, because naturally bussing is a SUPER STRONG play, and even coordinated bus attempts can be next level plays. Naomi not caring would make a perfect bus candidate anyway, so yummy yummy doctor goes on you.
as said at this point it's heavy tinfoil but wait, this possibility gains even more strenght with increasing scummyness from your side.
and please my a god bless you my man, you entered the dynamic stage porly with metarelated fluff
Dynamic Stage:
Since moths entrance stage already contained dynamics, he decided to have a small break anyway, perfect to enter more heaty plays by moth and find contradictions:
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So based on what he did in his entrance, moth aims at getting scumreads quite quickly, without neccessary hunting down or interactng. He joins in for a Red scumread, opens up scumreads on an inactive too, Poison Chan was a common target BoD.
First of all, I know that civs are inquisitive and open and they consider B pages too. Scum always opens up a path to turn back and hence moth places his wording so he can withdraw it.
"She is having fun playing a bad guy here." - safe call without pointing out a B side in her play. Which makes him totally doubt Red at that point with a total statement, but other posts still generate a kind of "open friendlyness", for example does he approach me "appeasement to the masses". Creating healthy relationships.
Remember previous games where moth always played his thing, but people always come to the conclusion of putting scumreads on him. A wifomic playstyle -> Deepwolf.
I can relate to it because it is similair to my main meta aspect, when people have generally a hard time getting reads on me.
Congrats man, you basically sheeped through your early game.
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Why sheeping is the question? Why force backstaged meta discussion.
+ both had the scumread on Red.
We have basically a staged scenario where the "MU front" managed to hold the alternate wagon Naomi and get together their suspicion on Red.
I use the "MU front" term, because I am certainly sure that one of them is scum atleast, and all in all the more we dig into their interactions, we actually learn more about them and how basically contradiction builds up.
Lets move on.
After SKs entrance moth decided to vote SoulKiller, then this followed:
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jumping on someones entrance is always a "too agressive" sign in my opinion, especially because at that time you did not jump on others entrances, but you rather created here a "picky" pressure vote.
True a civ can be picky, but not when there is a chance that the whole play of moth is staged at this point.
He basically gives Luku the null card here, when Ansa goes into inquisition.
He then shows consistency towards his suspicion on Poison Chan.
So again, why is mothbombs gameplay staged?
- gives null cards out to fellows he is dynamizing with
- gives pos impression reads in general that have no impact
- always keep a lynchie in backhand
He even votes SK while still having Naomi/Poison in the backhand.
Moths gameplay is about fossing and getting calculated lynch candidates without big inquisition.
Again peoplelike Ansa, Misa, me, Red, Poison, we all were inquisitive, but moth doesn't fit the pattern, making him the odd person within this clusterfuck.
He also basically says "you can townread Luku depending if he has a wagon on him and depending how strong he panickes towards EoD" which he couldhave basically tested out by voting him, but yet he chooses to vote SK who then simply deflects that one.
Moth combines null reads (no impact), friendly manners (no impact besides high sheeping potential) and lynch throws which he basically takes back fast with no reason.
now amigo why is there everything negative with that post and you dont even dig in for the reasons why people defending Poison, you simply let go after this neat interaction with SoulKiller there.
Let's say moth was on his peak until now, here is where he crumbles, basically after the SK interaction.
At first I was thinking moth and SK are scumbuddies, but then, why did moth's stance crumble? Neither Soul nor Poison were targets for him right now and moth was so focussed to find a target or keep his finger always on a target.
Naomi again, basically the weakest target here in the whole setup.
I am honest guys, I don't wanna give moth a freecard this DP, he is a fun and a wholesome friendly player and people like to look over the mistakes he does.
Again back to the OTCM:
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A game where moth trolled, made mistakes in each DP and basically won through powerplays done by me and Ansa.
Backtracking moth has never enough credibility as town. And I don't know his scum play but you guys can watch the OTCM game, moths meta is completely shifted this game as what he really tries to get here is credibility.
Credibility to make a wagon happen basically.
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Now the cleavage thing, moth basically started approaching me, no inquisition, but rather he tries to sell me a stance of myself which is quite a manipulative way tbh. Yes moth here found a new way to generate a new suspect.
The "Cleaver" tizzy.
I never refered to my role, I refered to my persona in general. And yes it was sarcastic when I called myself a woodland barbarian. You forced me to google "cleavage" and the definition basically is that I try to splitt something apart.
I cant recall that I ever splitt something in this DP, I always rationally placed my thoughts without disturbing the pace of the game. So you basically feed wrong intel from now on and this underlines a heavy scumtell my friend.
The point where you became a sus to me but I did just let you at this point.
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He shifts suspicion again this time renovated suspects, SageBee and Alice.
It is like moth found something to satisfy town gaining new confidence, after letting go of his suspicion on Poison.
I still think that the interaction with SK did influence mothbomb, he suddenly played more careful and this is a consistency break. Maybe not a good one, see, it makes him look better and I suspect this to be staged due to the interaction with Misa/Luku and SK afterwards.
Now tell me why was I suspecting Luku/Moth again? I can clearly have some doubts when @SoulKiller placed a vote on me, it was the best way to test how opportunistic moth will react to this.
Here moth and then also Ansa jumped on me for my relationship with Naomi, since Naomi chose a picky reaction towards me, which was due to reasons like me having her sign up and motivating her to play, but somehow this backfired. I know how Naomi is and she is generally a picky person and it is ahrd to open up reads early on for her, that's why I always consider giving her a free card because I can always safe-bet read her in later stages.
Still the argumentation is weak because I was cornered by a very random and uncalculated factor. And this is why it is very opportunistic to jump on lynching me.
I understand SK's reasoning and that there is some bigger plan behind his vote on me, I get a bait was layed out I hope and moth seems like a fish who would jump on this opportunistic setup after his several jumps on other people.
And here even the sheeping aspect comes back, which makes it quite reasonable for him to choose any lynch candidate.
But again not with me, I don't let myself be played at this point.
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First of all its too late to talk about the setup, players are already set on looking for scum and you asking the question how many scum are there is basically a confession to how many wagons you plan to open or consider. This often indicates TMI and is often practiced by scum who wants to fish for information regarding possible other scums.
Because the best bet would be to lead a lynch on another scum as scum so you get good head ups in powerwolfing into town.
Then again you talk about Naomi, like you would know more than me about the reasons why she dumping the game.
Did Naomi tell you to bus her because she is sure that Rej will scumread her? :kappa:
Man only scum opens space for so much negative tinfoil and neg reads, your weakness are the overdynamization of your playstyle, and genericness in your decisionmaking that lead to absolute nothing.
Again...what is a day kill cleaver role? And why are you suddenly paranoid after a vote is placed on me?
Why is moth paranoid after voting me?
I will let town judge this now.
My vote stays on mothbomb. Give me a break writing this was not fun, you can jump to any point of my ISO you will find scummyness and contradictions.
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The thing is, what Moth has pointed out wasn't inactivity - I'd gladly lynch half the game over it - but rather, not playing while interacting with the game itself. I am more than willing to listen to your explanation for why you cannot play and why you lost interest in playing the game. But you need to tell me yourself, since I have not perfected my mind reading skills so far.
Naomi_Rose
Active member
Sorry but what goes in my life is none of your business, rude as this may sound. But i already got other stuff to deal with. And don't have time to play (beside fact i already stated even before i don't play these type of games because i never found interest in them).
If you want to lynch me, go ahead but it will backfire and i will flip town. and just goes to show you only digging for excuse here
and ignoring the sub out part i mention, not even giving the other person who in my place to play. I can already see the sub will have to deal with this. (and sorry to person who sub in my place, if mafia don't kill you)
Just_Red
Active member
Awards
ahhh. That was quite the essay. I'm on Thanksgiving break, I dont need the read. :/You must be registered for see images
Time to clean up this mess.
ISO on mothbomb:
Entrance stage:
Again first hour in the game analyse and see where things are going, since at this point moth has 5 pages of ISO, I will go superficial on his essential playstyle, explaining why it is not civillian.
After the ISO on moth I will mostly follow with interaction analysis.
Some people should keep ready an alternative wagon zehahaha.
You must be registered for see images
Besides the following null posts, I will mostly count this as entrance.
First off does his first post to Misa make zero sense, that question basically goes this way "Are you town that way or town that way?" because if she is obvious to herself, then she implies to her own role, getting a civillian role, if she would be obvious town to us, then she would announce open towning, which basically almost happened with her softclaim.
So yeah mothbomb here enters with a cwac post, then calling my post good, which was a gut read.
All in all moth was open, showing his readyness to engage with multiple people, this is a consistent entrance mentality he showed over the past games too. Only thing that looked bad was the town/town question to Misa.
Again agressive, but even if the mindset here is funny and I agree with it, Poison Chan didn't make the best post back then and the conclusion wasn't rly there, but we know that this post also was one of the big starts to get the Red tizzy running.
The way Red was "take caren" of was quite scummy, and back to one of your current posts where you stated I suddenly suspect you, no I started to have you as one of my neg reads when the Red tizzy was litting up.
So moths entrance phase directly ties into the start up of the "Red tizzy".
still entrance stage, a post dedicated to explain his civillianesse, this is basically wifom
at this point besides gut reads and fluff there was nothing indicating that you were scumhunting or presenting space to read you as civ.
We are also at a point where we wait for replies for the mothquotes, so besides wifom this also comes close to fluff at this stage and it is not underlining what he really meant to present, a scumhunting civillian.
And as we see later on moth only reduces certain individuals.
You must be registered for see images
that someone was me, and as Naomi's friend I felt like giving some head ups, as you see I did it before and guess what I flipped? definitely not mafia
great so we tested the activity of Naomi and came to the conclusion that we have a player that doesn't care about this game
back then I didn't have this theory, but what about you placing a bus vote here? and yes this tinfoil gains strenght the more confirmed Naomi is to be inactive, because naturally bussing is a SUPER STRONG play, and even coordinated bus attempts can be next level plays. Naomi not caring would make a perfect bus candidate anyway, so yummy yummy doctor goes on you.
as said at this point it's heavy tinfoil but wait, this possibility gains even more strenght with increasing scummyness from your side.
and please my a god bless you my man, you entered the dynamic stage porly with metarelated fluff
Dynamic Stage:
Since moths entrance stage already contained dynamics, he decided to have a small break anyway, perfect to enter more heaty plays by moth and find contradictions:
You must be registered for see images
So based on what he did in his entrance, moth aims at getting scumreads quite quickly, without neccessary hunting down or interactng. He joins in for a Red scumread, opens up scumreads on an inactive too, Poison Chan was a common target BoD.
First of all, I know that civs are inquisitive and open and they consider B pages too. Scum always opens up a path to turn back and hence moth places his wording so he can withdraw it.
"She is having fun playing a bad guy here." - safe call without pointing out a B side in her play. Which makes him totally doubt Red at that point with a total statement, but other posts still generate a kind of "open friendlyness", for example does he approach me "appeasement to the masses". Creating healthy relationships.
Remember previous games where moth always played his thing, but people always come to the conclusion of putting scumreads on him. A wifomic playstyle -> Deepwolf.
I can relate to it because it is similair to my main meta aspect, when people have generally a hard time getting reads on me.
Congrats man, you basically sheeped through your early game.
You must be registered for see images
Why sheeping is the question? Why force backstaged meta discussion.
+ both had the scumread on Red.
We have basically a staged scenario where the "MU front" managed to hold the alternate wagon Naomi and get together their suspicion on Red.
I use the "MU front" term, because I am certainly sure that one of them is scum atleast, and all in all the more we dig into their interactions, we actually learn more about them and how basically contradiction builds up.
Lets move on.
After SKs entrance moth decided to vote SoulKiller, then this followed:
You must be registered for see images
jumping on someones entrance is always a "too agressive" sign in my opinion, especially because at that time you did not jump on others entrances, but you rather created here a "picky" pressure vote.
True a civ can be picky, but not when there is a chance that the whole play of moth is staged at this point.
He basically gives Luku the null card here, when Ansa goes into inquisition.
He then shows consistency towards his suspicion on Poison Chan.
So again, why is mothbombs gameplay staged?
- gives null cards out to fellows he is dynamizing with
- gives pos impression reads in general that have no impact
- always keep a lynchie in backhand
He even votes SK while still having Naomi/Poison in the backhand.
Moths gameplay is about fossing and getting calculated lynch candidates without big inquisition.
Again peoplelike Ansa, Misa, me, Red, Poison, we all were inquisitive, but moth doesn't fit the pattern, making him the odd person within this clusterfuck.
He also basically says "you can townread Luku depending if he has a wagon on him and depending how strong he panickes towards EoD" which he couldhave basically tested out by voting him, but yet he chooses to vote SK who then simply deflects that one.
Moth combines null reads (no impact), friendly manners (no impact besides high sheeping potential) and lynch throws which he basically takes back fast with no reason.
now amigo why is there everything negative with that post and you dont even dig in for the reasons why people defending Poison, you simply let go after this neat interaction with SoulKiller there.
Let's say moth was on his peak until now, here is where he crumbles, basically after the SK interaction.
At first I was thinking moth and SK are scumbuddies, but then, why did moth's stance crumble? Neither Soul nor Poison were targets for him right now and moth was so focussed to find a target or keep his finger always on a target.
Naomi again, basically the weakest target here in the whole setup.
I am honest guys, I don't wanna give moth a freecard this DP, he is a fun and a wholesome friendly player and people like to look over the mistakes he does.
Again back to the OTCM:
You must be registered for see images
A game where moth trolled, made mistakes in each DP and basically won through powerplays done by me and Ansa.
Backtracking moth has never enough credibility as town. And I don't know his scum play but you guys can watch the OTCM game, moths meta is completely shifted this game as what he really tries to get here is credibility.
Credibility to make a wagon happen basically.
You must be registered for see images
Now the cleavage thing, moth basically started approaching me, no inquisition, but rather he tries to sell me a stance of myself which is quite a manipulative way tbh. Yes moth here found a new way to generate a new suspect.
The "Cleaver" tizzy.
I never refered to my role, I refered to my persona in general. And yes it was sarcastic when I called myself a woodland barbarian. You forced me to google "cleavage" and the definition basically is that I try to splitt something apart.
I cant recall that I ever splitt something in this DP, I always rationally placed my thoughts without disturbing the pace of the game. So you basically feed wrong intel from now on and this underlines a heavy scumtell my friend.
The point where you became a sus to me but I did just let you at this point.
You must be registered for see images
He shifts suspicion again this time renovated suspects, SageBee and Alice.
It is like moth found something to satisfy town gaining new confidence, after letting go of his suspicion on Poison.
I still think that the interaction with SK did influence mothbomb, he suddenly played more careful and this is a consistency break. Maybe not a good one, see, it makes him look better and I suspect this to be staged due to the interaction with Misa/Luku and SK afterwards.
Now tell me why was I suspecting Luku/Moth again? I can clearly have some doubts when @SoulKiller placed a vote on me, it was the best way to test how opportunistic moth will react to this.
Here moth and then also Ansa jumped on me for my relationship with Naomi, since Naomi chose a picky reaction towards me, which was due to reasons like me having her sign up and motivating her to play, but somehow this backfired. I know how Naomi is and she is generally a picky person and it is ahrd to open up reads early on for her, that's why I always consider giving her a free card because I can always safe-bet read her in later stages.
Still the argumentation is weak because I was cornered by a very random and uncalculated factor. And this is why it is very opportunistic to jump on lynching me.
I understand SK's reasoning and that there is some bigger plan behind his vote on me, I get a bait was layed out I hope and moth seems like a fish who would jump on this opportunistic setup after his several jumps on other people.
And here even the sheeping aspect comes back, which makes it quite reasonable for him to choose any lynch candidate.
But again not with me, I don't let myself be played at this point.
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First of all its too late to talk about the setup, players are already set on looking for scum and you asking the question how many scum are there is basically a confession to how many wagons you plan to open or consider. This often indicates TMI and is often practiced by scum who wants to fish for information regarding possible other scums.
Because the best bet would be to lead a lynch on another scum as scum so you get good head ups in powerwolfing into town.
Then again you talk about Naomi, like you would know more than me about the reasons why she dumping the game.
Did Naomi tell you to bus her because she is sure that Rej will scumread her? :kappa:
Man only scum opens space for so much negative tinfoil and neg reads, your weakness are the overdynamization of your playstyle, and genericness in your decisionmaking that lead to absolute nothing.
Again...what is a day kill cleaver role? And why are you suddenly paranoid after a vote is placed on me?
Why is moth paranoid after voting me?
I will let town judge this now.
My vote stays on mothbomb. Give me a break writing this was not fun, you can jump to any point of my ISO you will find scummyness and contradictions.
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But anyway. My major problem with your meta analysis was that you came at this with a negative bias. What I mean, is anything and everything Moth posted in there, you phrased it as scum idea. The problem with this reasoning is that, if there were townie plays or just things that really were not meant to be taken seriously, you'd spin that into his "evil agenda".
Exhibit A:
Cleavage is a slang meaning the showing of a women's boobs more then the regular amount. Like if I wear a dress that showed my boobs, except the nipple, that be extreme cleavage. That is what moth was referring to, when he said you showed a lot of cleavage. I mean look at your avatar lol.
Overall, I don't mean to shut your entire analysis down, but coming at anything with the intention that they are 100% guilty will always get you to that conclusion. Thus is why it's best to look at it through both perspectives and figure out which one makes the most sense when compared.
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true I let on purpose the negative aspects overshadow the positive aspects in that ISO, because that ISO was aimed to underline why I vote moth. Indeed arguments can flip within this wholesome lynchagenda which I served to moth.
Wtf, why use such a heavy slang and then he suddenly uses it in combination with a day killer claim, which basically never happened, and he brings it up again.
So moth basically didnt allow me to give a fun response to his fun statement. Red this is going two sides, but your clarification just made it better for me you know? He just pokes on my cleavage statement while I am unaware it was slang and it was unserious and meaningless stuff.
@mothbomb did you rly expect an european (german) to know this meaning of slang, and then you still use my "cleavage claim" as an argument? Dude, this was S.A.R.C.A.S.M.
This is the moment when I finally realize that I will miss EOD since Wednesday is my late sports day. Which is kinda unfortunate.
Unfortunately I did not have enough time to read far enough into the Rej-Moth argument to cast my vote there, on either of them. I did not get the scum vibes from Rej that Moth got, only a few strange things that might still come from town, so I leave figuring that part to you, my fellow players.
Unvote
Vote @Naomi_Rose
Look, I was by no means trying to lynch you, I was just asking you about what might have been going on in your life and giving you a chance to explain yourself. I don't need a detailed essay about your private business either, something like "family issues", "I got sick" or "stuff happened and I got no time" are more than enough to satiate my curiousity. You complained about nobody thinking of your side of the story - and the first person who wants to hear your side of the story you call "digging for excuses" to lynch you. So, do you want people to consider your circumstances or not?
I am really sorry that you are going through a rough patch, apparently, and I really hope that you can mend things soon/you get healthy soon/your problems are going to be taken care of in a bit. But this display of... anger and frustration when somebody just tries to ask you what is going on in your life? That is super suspicious.
Unfortunately I did not have enough time to read far enough into the Rej-Moth argument to cast my vote there, on either of them. I did not get the scum vibes from Rej that Moth got, only a few strange things that might still come from town, so I leave figuring that part to you, my fellow players.
Unvote
Vote @Naomi_Rose
Look, I was by no means trying to lynch you, I was just asking you about what might have been going on in your life and giving you a chance to explain yourself. I don't need a detailed essay about your private business either, something like "family issues", "I got sick" or "stuff happened and I got no time" are more than enough to satiate my curiousity. You complained about nobody thinking of your side of the story - and the first person who wants to hear your side of the story you call "digging for excuses" to lynch you. So, do you want people to consider your circumstances or not?
I am really sorry that you are going through a rough patch, apparently, and I really hope that you can mend things soon/you get healthy soon/your problems are going to be taken care of in a bit. But this display of... anger and frustration when somebody just tries to ask you what is going on in your life? That is super suspicious.
Also, just saying this right now, Rej: As town, if you ISO, you should always look for the points for AND against your argument, or at least have a good explanation for why the good points are no good points after all. It is town's job to figure out others and it is only natural that we might err along the way.
...Not that I read it, since today is the busiest day in my week (well, Wednesdays and Fridays are), and I will only get to read it during the night phase, but this is general advice.
...Not that I read it, since today is the busiest day in my week (well, Wednesdays and Fridays are), and I will only get to read it during the night phase, but this is general advice.
I do think that they are a bit above rand scum. I don't have anybody else that I can explain my suspicion on in that one minute I still have before leaving (and not coming back until an hour after EOD) and I do think that her scum likelihood is higher than her town likelihood based on her latest reactions.
Another reason is that since I cannot change my vote I'd rather not have it on somebody who might possibly be a scumread power role for all I know and then I'm unable to change my vote away. Or, in short, my general Day 1 vote queasiness.
I leave organising EOD and finding a more suitable lynch target in your and Elmage's hands. If you don't find one I invite you to vote Naomi with me, but if you end up voting somebody else I won't blame anybody either.
Naomi_Rose
Active member
Man you really like to twist what you said, , and you vaguely hinted it. about lynching inactivity.
just look at that vote right there,on me now. Is this your chance to act like town victim next day? And fact I was never came of as aggressive in my reply, i even said sorry in start about my own opinion on matter so not to call hard feelings.
why are you getting defensive?
But jeez you just blew up, you and that moth guy have tunneling problem it looks like.
anyways here her opening, she knew what she was doing.
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