There has been much talk about Naruto dieing and not so much about Sasuke's death. In the event that someone defeats Naruto you better believe Sasuke will go down fighting a warrior's death. It would be like the end of an era.
Sasuke dies too
- Thread starter Yahcob13
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salamander uchiha
Active member
Yeah, no. Naruto dies but Sasuke lives. Sasuke also said he'd see Sarada become the Hokage and support her so it's all good. As a non fan I admit Sasuke is the main reason many take interest in the series, his unique non ass pull related fighting style is cool to watch.
Sharingan - handout
Curse Mark - handout
Mangekyo Sharingan - handout
Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan- handout
Rinnegan - you already know
All Boruto got is a karma seal and he had to fight to earn that. You're judging his character unfairly.
unfiledHiro
Member
yeah i bet naruto will die but my theory is that maybe naruto will pass some power down to boruto and sasuke might live to train boruto more. And Boruto's Karma seal is said to be even greater he might be able to pass naruto or even pass because as kakashi said "the new generation always surpasses the last"
salamander uchiha
Active member
No Sharingan + all variants = bloodline inheritance from the Jyubi jin child.
Curse mark = designed to make Sasuke a compatible vessel for Orochimaru by eroding his will = not a handout.
Boruto on the other hand.
Jogan = handout and no ancestral inheritance.
Seal = handout 0 foreshadow.
Seal healing ability = another handout on top of one.
3 elements = 0 training = ass pulls.
Adding a chakra nature to rasengan = add pull handout.
Unlimited chakra = handout and add pull.
The list can go on and on, but we've done this dance before.
Sarada got pantsed
Member
Boruto does have the ancestral inheritance for jougan. He is a descendant of both Hagoromo and Hamura and his parents possess both Hagoromo and Hamura's chakaras between the two of them. When mixed with the byakugan gene that Boruto got from Hinata, these chakaras (as well as potentially the bijuu chakaras inside of Naruto) were enough to evolve his byakugan gene into a jougan gene (and yes Momoshiki himself confirmed that Boruto has a byakugan gene when he said "you have the blood of a byakugan user", and in the anime he even confirmed that Otsutsuki chakara and bijuu chakara is relevant to the jougan when he saw Boruto's jougan and said "the power of the Otsutsuki runs deep within you").
Don't spout that crap where you say, "if that were the case then Himawari would have one" because:
1. Himawari got the byakugan and seemingly the unique ability to switch between it and her normal eyes, so Himawari did get something.
2. Not all offspring of a set of parents inherit every possible caveat that they could get from those parents.
Examples: Asura didn't get sharingan. Hamura didn't get rinnegan. Hagoromo didn't get byakugan or tenseigan. Nobody in Hashirama's family aside from Hashirama himself is known to have gotten wood style. Etc...
Don't say that chakaras aren't responsible for dojutsu because we've seen several cases where chakara has generated a dojutsu:
1. Madara awakened the rinnegan by mixing Indra's and Asura's chakaras to make Hagoromo's chakara. You may argue that Madara had sharingan, so Hagoromo's chakara just mutated his sharingan into a rinnegan, but I've already pointed out that Boruto has the byakugan gene, so he too possesses a dojutsu gene to be mutated by chakara.
2. Kaguya awakened rinnesharingan by eating a chakara fruit. Momoshiki also awakened a 3rd rinnegan eye by eating Kinshiki as a chakara fruit.
3. Obito gave Kakashi two sharingan eyes simply by transferring the chakara to him (and unlike Madara and Boruto, Kakashi doesn't even have any dojutsu genes to be mutated). You may argue that it was temporary, but the double sharingan eyes left Kakashi when the chakara left Kakashi, so that still says that the chakara was responsible for awakening those eyes in Kakashi.
Anyway, about the other so called "asspulls".
3 elements - Boruto does train for them. Naruto has acknowledged Boruto's training at least twice now in the manga.
Karma seal - foreshadow is not necessary. I don't know why a lot of people think that everything has to be predictable or foreshadowed. Stories simply need to have new developments at times. You don't need to see it coming.
Healing ability - That has simply yet to be explained, but the manga made somewhat of a big deal out of it. Clearly there is actually something plot relevant to it. Thus it is not an asspull.
Unlimited chakara - doesn't have that
Adding nature to rasengan - not so hard. Minato just sucked at it.
salamander uchiha
Active member
The first part about the Jogan is absolute horseshit. If it were the case that the mixture of the two chakra's produced the Jogan then Kaguya would've had it. The reason he has it is because he didn't have enough handouts. And there's been 0 foreshadow of it being connected to Hamura and Hogaromo's chakra.
1. The gene itself didn't give Madara the eye. He had an active eye that achieved it's final stage. It didn't go beyond that or become something new it was the final progression. So that points out of the window.
2. It's called Sharingan in the manga but anyway eating the fruit is an assumption as she is the Jyuubi. She absorbed it somehow and got the "rinne sharingan" something the Jyubi already possessed.
3. Was a blatantly badly written ass pull, but even then Obito was one of the few Rokudo's to exist. Boruto isn't and never was.
The other ass pulls are confirmed.
No he doesn't he confirmed in the manga he didn't train for any of the 3 elements. Go back to his boast in the Hokage's office. And according to the databook entry he even had purple lighting alongside other elements at the time. Naruto only praised Boruto's rasengan and even then Boruto didn't confirm he was training. Even then in the second bout Boruto shrugged off Naruto's praise of so called training with "you could say that."
Handout seal, yes it does. The whole plot is based around the seal and it wasn't foreshadowed. And it was given for the heck of it. Yes plot devices require foreshadowing for MCs anyway otherwise anybody could pull any shit out of their ass.
Healing ability is connected and another handout. It's pretty obvious there's plot relevance but it's still another ass pulled handout.
Unlimited chakra - yes he does. He doesn't run out. The reason taju SCJ is a forbidden jutsu and not everybody under the sun uses it is because it burns out your chakra. If the law of division is applied then when then Boruto would be down to between 20 and 25% chakra. Then the next division would reduce it even further. However, the walking ass pull factory has an unlimited supply until the job is done.
Adding nature is the hardest thing, Minato, Kakashi and Naruto all failed. Naruto trained for that skill using 000's of clones until he developed it. Borat just pulled it out of his ass without even training it.
Sarada got pantsed
Member
1. About Kaguya: You say that Kaguya would have had jougan if it was a mix of Hagoromo's and Hamura's chakaras, but that isn't necessarily true. Hagoromo's chakara may have been Indra + Asura, but that doesn't mean that every parent's chakara is child 1 + child 2. Kaguya clearly had stuff in her bloodline that neither of her kids seemed to directly inherit despite some of this stuff appearing in later descendants. The ash bone kekkei mora is a prime example of what I am talking about. Neither Hagoromo nor Hamura inherited this nor the diluted descendant version which turned out to be the KKG of the Kaguya clan (Kimmimaro's clan).
Also, Kaguya's children inherited things that Kaguya herself did not possess such as the tenseigan. This shows that there were other factors in Kaguya's genes and bloodline other than just Hagoromo + Hamura, and that Kaguya's descendants can inherit things that she herself did not possess.
2. About Kaguya awakening the rinnesharingan: You say that Kaguya got it from being the juubi and you said that the juubi "already possessed it". However, you don't seem to realize that Kaguya predates the juubi. She ate the chakara fruit and awakened her power (including the rinnesharingan) long before becoming the juubi. She became the juubi years later when she merged with the shinju in order to defeat her sons and take their chakara. Prior to the fight with her sons, Kaguya had been placing the populace under the infinite tsukuyomi (which requires the rinnesharingan) in order to turn them into white zetsus for her army that she was going to use to fight Momoshiki and the other Otsutsuki clan members. Hagoromo and Hamura opposed Kaguya's actions, and that led to Kaguya merging with the shinju (thus becoming the juubi) in order to fight her sons.
3. About the nomenclature of the rinnesharingan: I know that Hagoromo called it a sharingan in the manga. However Sasuke called it a rinnegan. When the infinite tsukuyomi was casted, the victims had the rinnegan in their eyes and Sasuke's rinnegan is what made him immune to the infinite tsukuyomi. Undoing the infinite tsukuyomi requires the chakara of all 9 bijuus and the rinnegan. In short, it displays a lot of sharingan properties and a lot of rinnegan properties and it has been referred to as both. That is why I am not comfortable just calling it a sharingan. It is clearly vastly different from the eye of Indra and the Uchiha clan, and as such, it warrants a distinction in its nomenclature. That is why I use rinnesharingan.
4. About Madara: Yes Madara had an active eye, but that is happenstance. Who is to say that Madara wouldn't have awakened the rinnegan had he merged Indra's/Asura's chakaras even without ever awakening the sharingan? Who is to say that kid Madara (pre sharingan) couldn't have taken kid Hashirama's DNA, waited for several decades (without ever fighting another battle or awakening the sharingan) and then awakened the rinnegan when he was about to die like he did canonically? Hagoromo never stated that an active sharingan was necessary to awaken the rinnegan. In fact, he never said that sharingan was necessary at all. We just assume that it is because neither Naruto nor Asura awakened the rinnegan even with Hagoromo's chakara. As for Kabuto stating rinnegan to be a natural evolution of the sharingan (as well as old Madara), they were close. However, Kishi (through Hagoromo) retconned the Uchiha + Senju = rinnegan thing and replaced it with Indra + Asura = Hagoromo, thus leading to rinnegan. He basically made it so that only a transmigrant can awaken it. In other words, something such as Itachi taking Tobirama's DNA would not produce the rinnegan.
In short, what I'm saying is that rinnegan is not simply a natural evolution of the sharingan (a fact that is further proved by the fact that you can awaken rinnegan without having a sharingan or at least without awakening it as evidenced by Momoshiki who as of now is not known to have ever possessed a sharingan). Rinnegan can be awakened on its own via the right chakara or chakara fruit. As for where the whole dojutsu gene thing comes in, honestly I only put that in there because as I said before, Naruto and Asura didn't get rinnegan despite receiving Hagoromo's chakara. Nevertheless, Momoshiki shows that skipping the sharingan stage (if any part of sharingan is necessary at all) is entirely possible with the right chakara. As far as the manga goes, Hagoromo shows this as well (the anime filler is a different story).
Having said this, who is to say that Boruto couldn't skip the byakugan stage and just awaken the jougan based on the chakaras that he may have been influenced by from his parents?
5. About Obito giving Kakashi sharingan through chakara: You can call it an asspull or you can call it bad writing, but that doesn't make it any less canon. Therefore, asspull or not, it still stands as proof that chakaras can lead to dojutsu.
6. One thing that I always notice that you don't address: You say that Boruto has the jougan because he needed more asspulls and handouts, but that is an out of universe reason as to why he has it. Whether you like it or not, we are eventually going to get an in universe reason (something that actually has to do with chakara, genes, transmigration, bijuus, and other in universe elements). The jougan is too important of a plot point for it not to be explained. Having said that, if it's not due to Otsutsuki chakara or bijuu chakara or byakugan mutations or anything like that, then what in the world would his in universe reason for having the jougan be?
I know that you passionately hate Boruto, but don't let your hatred delude you into thinking that the concept of "asspulls" and "bad writing" actually exists in universe to the characters themselves.
salamander uchiha
Active member
1. Nonsense again, Kaguya still possessed the ashbone and it was passed on. And there's no proof her descendants didn't possess it either. Her descendants not using it doesn't negate their existence. So if she doesn't have the Jogan she didn't pass it on. As for the Tenseigan it's fillerish and even if it wasn't it was an evolution of an existing inheritance. And Hamura already had an active eye which was the same eye as Kaguya.
2. She didn't merge with the Shinju tree that was only in the filler. She was and is the Jyubi she had the eye because she took the tree.
3. Hogaromo overrules everybody, so Sauce's words aren't as weighty. She also didn't use any Rinnegan powers but that's another issue.
4. What's to say it wouldn't happen is because it didn't happen that way. And besides BZ confirmed he tried to get many transmigrant befote that to awaken the Rinnegan but failed until Madara. Madara is the first Uchiha to have the EMS. So yeah what ifs buts and blah blah's aren't going to be entertained. Active dojutsu let to the eye becoming complete. And the fact that Naruto didn't gain the Rinnegan after receiving rokudo chakra is proof enough, if not further proof the eye is necessary. Btw Momo's rinnegan were of a different calibre and quality.
5. Even though it was an ass pull, Obito was there in person, and a rokudo. His chakra independent of him didn't give the dojutsu. So that argument is quite silly to as well.
6. Yes it's an ass pull, Which I'm sure they'll try and justify. They gave him the unique dojutsu in one eye to make him like Sasuke after all he wanted to ride his nutsack. None of that changes it's ass pull nature.
Good to see you dropped your objections on his other ass pulls. And I dislike Boruto because he represents bad writing, living off of ass pulls and handouts. Dislike of him is dislike of low grade writing.
When did he get unlimited chakra? I must have missed that episode. What's wrong with having a unique kkg? He doesn't even use it most of the time and just because it appears to be powerful doesn't make it any less valid. There are so many characters with rapid healing I can't keep up but when Boruto gets it you cry asspull before we even know the cause. Thats prejudice bro. So what if he has three chakra natures its not like that makes you super strong or anything. But I have to admit that vanishing rasengan is overpowered but it not a lethal attack like thunderclap arrow. You're making a big deal about the things that make his character unique. I thought it was an asspull when Madara was revived with a young body I think that's way more of an asspull than anything concerning Boruto.
On second thought I see your point. The asspulls are strong with this one. I think this is part of character design because he is meant to be like an Otsutsuki. From what I can tell they don't train but are naturally gifted with immense amounts of chakra and ability to manipulate chakra on a level that surpasses normal human limitations. Hashirama is the one exception I can think of which is why I think Boruto will become the new generation version of Hashirama. I'm not saying he will use the same techniques but will become a shinobi of that caliber.
salamander uchiha
Active member
They're all ass pulls and I've already addressed them above. He may be your fav but it doesn't negate their ass pull nature. As for Madara's revival in a young body then he himself intended to be revived as did BZ. I doubt he intended Kaguya to be revived in an old body to get defeated. Anyeay he's not a main character, the bar of ass pulls applies mainly to main characters as the story is about them.
Post automatically merged:
The problem is Hahsirama was an incarnate and the Jyubi's actual body. You can't compare a walking ass pull handouts factory to him, there are no parallels.
Boruto has a dojutsu that has an ability of Kurama. Kurama has tons of chakra. Kurama has a passive healing ability. You see where im going with this? What would be the next evolutionary step after becoming a jinchuriki? Being the embodiment of the tailed beast. The beast becomes human. What if Boruto is also Kurama's son? It not entirely out of the question to consider that he'sa chakra beast born into human flesh? He'd be similar to Hashirama in natural talent. That would explain the so called asspulls you speak of.
salamander uchiha
Active member
No he's nothing like Hashirama, Hashirama trained hard day and night with Madara when he could. And when he couldn't he was always in the heat of battle gaining experience via fighting. He's also an Asura incarnate none of which Boruto was or has there is no simultude. Boruto has an ass pull dojutsu which may be related to Hinata and Kurama(Hinata is known to get off on Kurama chakra). He has a handout seal which grants him healing powers out of thin air but that's about it, we don't k ow much more past that.
Boruto has the least chakra of his team mates but a shit load of plot armour which is why he never runs out of chakra. They're ass pulls, handouts and plot armour if you can't see that then you need help. Dont diss Hashirama by comparing Boruto to him,not even Naruto is comparable.
Nah I think we're on to something.
Boruto has been shown training in the last two chapters. Kawaki is like Boruto's Madara and they do train. You know how quickly he develops new abilities when he trains.
This time he awakened a healing ability. I think I understand why he's such a prodigy now. If Boruto is a tailed beast/human hybrid then he would be extremely proficient and efficient with the use of chakra. This shows with his use of shadow clones in spite of low levels of chakra. He still shouldn't be able to spam them the way he does unless you consider that he's using nature chakra like a tailed beast would. Or it could be that his chakra regenerates very quickly. His sister has shown the aptitude to use high level techniques without training so this isn't something isolated to Boruto. She is also a human bijuu. So its not a diss to Hashirama to compare him to Boruto when they are so much alike. Hashi had wood style Boruto has Jogan. Boruto may actually be part Hashirama now that I think of it. The Hashirama cells may have been passed down also. Its no way to tell right now.
salamander uchiha
Active member
Damn bro, you're into some serious fanficion. He's nothing like Hashirama and neither is Kawaki anything like Lord Madara. Boruto is an a handout, ass pull and plot armour protected factory. So I'm not going to waste more time.
Anyway thanks for the laughs, I needed it.
Ps.I would've like the idea of Boruto being Kurama's son. I've heard Hinata enjoyed it's chakra during the war, who knows Kurama may have shown Naruto the first time popping out Borat in the process.
Kawaki is so Madara-like how can you not see that! Kawaki gets taken in by the hokage and is treated like an equal but he betrays Naruto in the end and seeks to rid the world of shinobi. Madara betrayed the village and declared war against the shinobi world. Madara was probably motivated by the thought of freeing his clan from Hashirama. Kawaki will likely be motivated by the thought of gaining independence from Naruto and Jigen. Boruto is the Hokage's son like Hashirama was the Senju clan leader son both were considered to be prodigies. Kawaki is Jigen's son like how Madara's father was leader of the Uchiha. They are bound by karma much like Hashi and Madara.
Kawaki wants to end the shinobi era but there is a new breed of shinobi out there. Naruto and Sasuke did something greater than just save the world they helped the shinobi world to make an evolutionary leap. So cry asspull handout plot armor if you like. But Kishi is still behind the scenes weaving it all together.
salamander uchiha
Active member
Wtf are you talking about, Hashirama never took in Madara and he wasn't Hokage either. Naruto never treated Kawaki as his equal, he treated him like his true son. You're stuck way too far up your own ah if you're comparing Kawaki to Madara, there's no simultude whatsoever. The closest to Madara is Sasuke even if he's become a cheerleader.
Skimming Madara's story down for you.
Madara was an Indra incarnate= check.
Madara father was leader of one of the warring clans = check.
Madara grew up in the age of war and had lost siblings= check.
Madara would go and reflect where he met Hashirama = check.
Madara and Hashirama would train together and discuss strategies to build a better world starting with a village = check.
Madara and Hashirama split to protect their siblings = check.
Both fought continuously rising to the top of their clans = check.
Madara's brother is killed by Hashirama's brother = check.
Hashirama wanted peace and after a battle Madara helped form the village = check.
Hashirama wanted to make Madara Hokage, Nazirama opposed it And spread propoganda = check.
Madara saw Nazirama's hate for the Uchiha clan and wanted to protect them = check.
Madara asked the Uchiha to leave the village but they refused =check.
Madara left the village and found way to bring peace = check.
He fought Hashirama to gain Asura's chakra = check.
Madara awoke the Rinnegan and passed it on= check.
Madara planned to be revived so he could being world peace = check.
Madara wanted to cast the IT and Put everybody into it so they could live happily ever after = check.
This is the summarised version.
Htf is Kawaki anything like Madara?
Naruto and Sasuke didn't help anybody make any evolutionary leaps. If you think Kishi is being the scenes weaving this shit show together then you need to get your head examined. Kishi knew how to write, create a story and characters, Kadachi only knows how to create handouts and ass pull factories(Borat) on steroids with unrivalled plot armour.
The moment you compared these low grade fodder to Lord Madara, I was done.
It's unfortunate, if you're calling it as you're seeing it then you need to get your sight checked.
Take care.
Ps. We don't pull shit out of our ass, so no.
I don't understand why you think Madara was so great when he was a huge failure until right before he died the second time. It took two lives for him to figure out what Hashi had been preaching to him the whole time. But he was also a hero in some ways. I don't really consider him a villain he's like Kurama to me. He was a victim of circumstances seeking a solution to no longer be that victim. If there is one character who fits that description its Kawaki. Its not even a diss because Kawaki is
stronger than most adult shinobi. Just like Madara was. But I digress it useless trying to explain it to you.
stronger than most adult shinobi. Just like Madara was. But I digress it useless trying to explain it to you.