How strong would Madara be without Hashirama's chakra?

[salamander uchiha]

Black Zetsu exploited his weakness as did Hashirama. Sneak attack from behind.

Nonsense Kishi says "no weakness" therefore it's known as deus ex machina. Now no need to get ruatled by Kishi's own words.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Nonsense Kishi says "no weakness" therefore it's known as deus ex machina. Now no need to get ruatled by Kishi's own words.

What Kishimoto shows in the manga>what he says in an interview. He displayed Madara's weakness multiple times as foreshadowing. First as kids when he tells Hashirama that he can't even pee if someone is standing behind him. Second when Hashirama recalls this and backstabs him in the Final Valley - with Black Zetsu watching from the shadows.

 

[salamander uchiha]

What Kishimoto shows in the manga>what he says in an interview. He displayed Madara's weakness multiple times as foreshadowing. First as kids when he tells Hashirama that he can't even pee if someone is standing behind him. Second when Hashirama recalls this and backstabs him in the Final Valley - with Black Zetsu watching from the shadows.

You're partially right, if he makes a claim in the interview it's his understanding of how he views the character. Anything he does to the character thereafter should be looked at in that light. Madara was clearly hit by deus ex machina.

 

[Animegoin]

The thread was about how strong Madara would be without Hashirama's chakra. Then the conversation turned into him being weaker than Sasuke. As you can see, Tobirama said they had the same potential while Orochimaru said Sasuke would surpass him. And this was in reference to the current Madara whom had Hashirama's cells. So obviously without it Sasuke is above.

All Sasuke recieved from Hashirama was a jutsu that he never used and Kabuto used what he learned of Hashirama's cells to heal him. I never denied that Madara said he was more capable than Obito. I denied it being about the Rinnegan given Madara never mentioned it. He was clearly referring to his composure & intelligence. In otherwords his mindset.

LMFAO the conversation never turned to Madara being weaker than Sasuke, it turned into you hoping for that to be the case. As I stated earlier, Sasuke’s “potential” and Orochimaru’s words equate to literal shit considering that Sasuke to this very day still hasn’t surpassed Rinnegan Madara. Also, both Orochimaru and Tobirama weren’t talking about Edo Madara, they were talking about EMS Madara because much like Kabuto, they assumed that Madara died without Hashirama’s cells. That’s literally common sense if you read the context of their dialogue; only you would try to state otherwise. But let’s backtrack to EMS Madara, the one known throughout the world as a god, second only to Hashirama. What can EMS Sasuke do to Madara? He definitely can’t outlast him, he definitely isn’t as smart as Madara and his arsenal does **** all to Madara’s. That’s what the **** I though.

And Sasuke received Hashirama’s chakra and Kabuto used modified Hashirama cells to heal Sasuke; cease with the fanfic. Hashirama blatantly says, “I’ll give you all of my remaining chakra.”

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Also Madara literally did mention the Rinnegan near the conclusion of his assessment of Sasuke by saying “and a sharingan like mine.” Literally, Sasuke’s eye is what really surprised him and made him hold Sasuke to higher level of acknowledgement than Obito. Again, common sense yet you willfully ignore it. You failed like a motherfucker

 

[Askeladd]

Nonsense Kishi says "no weakness" therefore it's known as deus ex machina. Now no need to get ruatled by Kishi's own words.

Do you have a link about Kishi saying this?

 

[salamander uchiha]

Do you have a link about Kishi saying this?

I gave him to you before going through the threads and find it.

 

[Askeladd]

I gave him to you before going through the threads and find it.

I don't recall you giving me the proof of such statement in the past.

Regardless, it's fake until you share a source.

 

[salamander uchiha]

I don't recall you giving me the proof of such statement in the past.

Regardless, it's fake until you share a source.

I did before you got your 6 month ban

It was one of your many Ls

As if I give a toss what you think

Ps. Dig it up if you're interested, I don't have time.

 

[Askeladd]

I did before you got your 6 month ban

It was one of your many Ls

As if I give a toss what you think

Ps. Dig it up if you're interested, I don't have time.

I never goth a 6 month ban, nice lie

No source? Concession accepted

 

[InfiniteMugen]

....as strong as ems madara.....

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

You're partially right, if he makes a claim in the interview it's his understanding of how he views the character. Anything he does to the character thereafter should be looked at in that light. Madara was clearly hit by deus ex machina.

Just checked. Here's what Kishimoto really said.

"Kishimoto-sensei addressed curiosity on whether Madara can be defeated. He responded that while he did make him really strong, Madara has to be defeated somehow otherwise the story won’t be able to progress. He continued by saying that he has to figure out how to defeat Madara and that he’ll have to think it over with his editor."

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^The last chapter that came out December 2013 was when Madara stole the Kyuubi from Naruto. So after making this statement Kishimoto proceeds to make Madara become the Juubi Jin, absorb the God Tree - thus gaining immortality, regain his second Rinnegan, then awaken the Rinne-Sharingan (third eye), cast the Infinite Tsukuyomi on the world, tell Naruto and Sasuke that he will fight seriously and the final battle has begun now, then Black Zetsu back stabs him and revives Kaguya. All this happened by May 2014.

Based on this he didn't originally plan on having BZ backstab Madara knowing that was his weakness, but he was smart to make use of this established plot point considering that doing so wouldn't be an asspull.

LMFAO the conversation never turned to Madara being weaker than Sasuke, it turned into you hoping for that to be the case. As I stated earlier, Sasuke’s “potential” and Orochimaru’s words equate to literal shit considering that Sasuke to this very day still hasn’t surpassed Rinnegan Madara. Also, both Orochimaru and Tobirama weren’t talking about Edo Madara, they were talking about EMS Madara because much like Kabuto, they assumed that Madara died without Hashirama’s cells. That’s literally common sense if you read the context of their dialogue; only you would try to state otherwise. But let’s backtrack to EMS Madara, the one known throughout the world as a god, second only to Hashirama. What can EMS Sasuke do to Madara? He definitely can’t outlast him, he definitely isn’t as smart as Madara and his arsenal does **** all to Madara’s. That’s what the **** I though.

And Sasuke received Hashirama’s chakra and Kabuto used modified Hashirama cells to heal Sasuke; cease with the fanfic. Hashirama blatantly says, “I’ll give you all of my remaining chakra.”

Spoiler

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Also Madara literally did mention the Rinnegan near the conclusion of his assessment of Sasuke by saying “and a sharingan like mine.” Literally, Sasuke’s eye is what really surprised him and made him hold Sasuke to higher level of acknowledgement than Obito. Again, common sense yet you willfully ignore it. You failed like a motherfucker

1) Orochimaru stated that he was able to hear everything that was going on from within Kabuto and even gained Kabuto's memories when he took his power back. Based on this it's clear that not only did he know that Madara had Wood style, but also the Rinnegan. 2) Do you really think Sasuke never surpassed even EMS Madara? Or that EMS Sasuke wouldn't ever surpass EMS Madara? He had his EMS for a few hours during the war.....3) You're right about Sasuke receiving Hashirama's chakra. I never read the Viz nor even seen anyone mention it before. They always say Hashirama gave him a jutsu. 4) "A SHARINGAN like mine....didn't Madara also address this earlier when he pointed out his Choku Tomoe?

....as strong as ems madara.....

*stronger

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[InfiniteMugen]

Just checked. Here's what Kishimoto really said.

"Kishimoto-sensei addressed curiosity on whether Madara can be defeated. He responded that while he did make him really strong, Madara has to be defeated somehow otherwise the story won’t be able to progress. He continued by saying that he has to figure out how to defeat Madara and that he’ll have to think it over with his editor."

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^The last chapter that came out December 2013 was when Madara stole the Kyuubi from Naruto. So after making this statement Kishimoto proceeds to make Madara become the Juubi Jin, absorb the God Tree - thus gaining immortality, regain his second Rinnegan, then awaken the Rinne-Sharingan (third eye), cast the Infinite Tsukuyomi on the world, tell Naruto and Sasuke that he will fight seriously and the final battle has begun now, then Black Zetsu back stabs him and revives Kaguya. All this happened by May 2014.

Based on this he didn't originally plan on having BZ backstab Madara knowing that was his weakness, but he was smart to make use of this established plot point considering that doing so wouldn't be an asspull.



1) Orochimaru stated that he was able to hear everything that was going on from within Kabuto and even gained Kabuto's memories when he took his power back. Based on this it's clear that not only did he know that Madara had Wood style, but also the Rinnegan. 2) Do you really think Sasuke never surpassed even EMS Madara? Or that EMS Sasuke wouldn't ever surpass EMS Madara? He had his EMS for a few hours during the war.....3) You're right about Sasuke receiving Hashirama's chakra. I never read the Viz nor even seen anyone mention it before. They always say Hashirama gave him a jutsu. 4) "A SHARINGAN like mine....didn't Madara also address this earlier when he pointed out his Choku Tomoe?



*stronger

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What in the actual **** does that have anything to do with what I said? Madara without hashiramas chakra would be as strong as ems madara, don’t drag me into your mess

 

[Askeladd]

Just checked. Here's what Kishimoto really said.

"Kishimoto-sensei addressed curiosity on whether Madara can be defeated. He responded that while he did make him really strong, Madara has to be defeated somehow otherwise the story won’t be able to progress. He continued by saying that he has to figure out how to defeat Madara and that he’ll have to think it over with his editor."

You must be registered for see links

^The last chapter that came out December 2013 was when Madara stole the Kyuubi from Naruto. So after making this statement Kishimoto proceeds to make Madara become the Juubi Jin, absorb the God Tree - thus gaining immortality, regain his second Rinnegan, then awaken the Rinne-Sharingan (third eye), cast the Infinite Tsukuyomi on the world, tell Naruto and Sasuke that he will fight seriously and the final battle has begun now, then Black Zetsu back stabs him and revives Kaguya. All this happened by May 2014.

Based on this he didn't originally plan on having BZ backstab Madara knowing that was his weakness, but he was smart to make use of this established plot point considering that doing so wouldn't be an asspull.



1) Orochimaru stated that he was able to hear everything that was going on from within Kabuto and even gained Kabuto's memories when he took his power back. Based on this it's clear that not only did he know that Madara had Wood style, but also the Rinnegan. 2) Do you really think Sasuke never surpassed even EMS Madara? Or that EMS Sasuke wouldn't ever surpass EMS Madara? He had his EMS for a few hours during the war.....3) You're right about Sasuke receiving Hashirama's chakra. I never read the Viz nor even seen anyone mention it before. They always say Hashirama gave him a jutsu. 4) "A SHARINGAN like mine....didn't Madara also address this earlier when he pointed out his Choku Tomoe?



*stronger

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Naruto X Hunter-sama giving L as per usual

RIP Salamander.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Just checked. Here's what Kishimoto really said.

"Kishimoto-sensei addressed curiosity on whether Madara can be defeated. He responded that while he did make him really strong, Madara has to be defeated somehow otherwise the story won’t be able to progress. He continued by saying that he has to figure out how to defeat Madara and that he’ll have to think it over with his editor."

You must be registered for see links

^The last chapter that came out December 2013 was when Madara stole the Kyuubi from Naruto. So after making this statement Kishimoto proceeds to make Madara become the Juubi Jin, absorb the God Tree - thus gaining immortality, regain his second Rinnegan, then awaken the Rinne-Sharingan (third eye), cast the Infinite Tsukuyomi on the world, tell Naruto and Sasuke that he will fight seriously and the final battle has begun now, then Black Zetsu back stabs him and revives Kaguya. All this happened by May 2014.

This is the latter statement, the original was made when Madara was first introduced.

@bold: That's why I said deus ex machina, He pretty much concedes he has to pull something from his ass to beat him.

Based on this he didn't originally plan on having BZ backstab Madara knowing that was his weakness, but he was smart to make use of this established plot point considering that doing so wouldn't be an asspull.

Now you're making an excuse and yes it was. BZ has no way to over power Madara when he himself is a fodder, Obito with Rokudo powers barely managed to extract a piece of two tailed beasts. Double Rinnegan, Rinne Sharingan, EMS Madara is many leagues above that Madara, so yeah it's an ass pull.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

The most that could be said is weaker than Hashirama but stronger than Teenage EMS Sasuke. But some part of me is just giving EMS Madara the benefit of the doubt. Sasuke's merger with Naruto & Kurama broke through Obito's attack, when Obito was supposedly leagues ahead of Hashirama.

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I get that a perfect jin is stronger than the beast alone, but it's saying a lot that this was accomplished with no more than Teen Naruto(whom we assume to have much less chakra than his half of Kurama) and half of Kurama. This all being while Hashirama could easily beat Madara's Susanoo's covering off of Kurama in contrast to Obito's mythical sword shattering after attempting to hit Sasuke's merger.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

What in the actual **** does that have anything to do with what I said? Madara without hashiramas chakra would be as strong as ems madara, don’t drag me into your mess

A simple joke that was supposed to rustle Animegoin, not you.

This is the latter statement, the original was made when Madara was first introduced.

I nevee read nor heard about this supposed statement until now.

@bold: That's why I said deus ex machina, He pretty much concedes he has to pull something from his ass to beat him.

If defeating Madara was really so much of a concern then why continuously make him stronger?

Now you're making an excuse and yes it was. BZ has no way to over power Madara when he himself is a fodder, Obito with Rokudo powers barely managed to extract a piece of two tailed beasts. Double Rinnegan, Rinne Sharingan, EMS Madara is many leagues above that Madara, so yeah it's an ass pull.

That's another time he was pierced. Excuses? More like consistent feats. Another time is when Sasuke's sword pierced him. He was constantly stabbed when his guard was down no matter how strong the opponent was.

 

[Animegoin]

1) Orochimaru stated that he was able to hear everything that was going on from within Kabuto and even gained Kabuto's memories when he took his power back. Based on this it's clear that not only did he know that Madara had Wood style, but also the Rinnegan. 2) Do you really think Sasuke never surpassed even EMS Madara? Or that EMS Sasuke wouldn't ever surpass EMS Madara? He had his EMS for a few hours during the war.....3) You're right about Sasuke receiving Hashirama's chakra. I never read the Viz nor even seen anyone mention it before. They always say Hashirama gave him a jutsu. 4) "A SHARINGAN like mine....didn't Madara also address this earlier when he pointed out his Choku Tomoe?
]

1.) LMFAO what a surprise, more lies from you = shittier fanfic; Orochimaru states that he was able to hear everything from within Anko not Kabuto. Also he wasn’t able to hear what Madara had relayed to Kabuto. Also on a serious note, I’ve been searching up and down for when Orochimaru stated that he’d absorbed Kabuto’s memories but I can’t find it; help me out and post that page. >And even if he had obtained Kabuto’s memories, for the second time, the context in which Orochimaru and Tobirama were speaking were relating to Madara’s and Hashirama’s first lives, not the Edo resurrection lmfao.
(2.) Lmfao so what? When Madara first awoke the EMS, he went right back to war against Hashirama and the rest of the Senju clan. So how does Sasuke’s feat compare to Madara’s? It doesn’t lmao, not even close. (3) No shit I’m right lmao (4.) Yes and one of his sharingan evolved into a Rinnegan, which is what finally made Madara put him over Obito.

 

[salamander uchiha]

I nevee read nor heard about this supposed statement until now.

Find the Kobayashi interview it's in there, if memory serves me correct.

If defeating Madara was really so much of a concern then why continuously make him stronger?

Because Kishi wrote himself into a corner, hence deus ex machina. Ghost comes out of nowhere ass pulling power ups, where a fraction of a while matches the whole etc.

That's another time he was pierced. Excuses? More like consistent feats. Another time is when Sasuke's sword pierced him. He was constantly stabbed when his guard was down no matter how strong the opponent was.

Buddy he has RSM and SM sensory nobody is stabbing him except via plot nerf. Even then a sword cutting Madara was blatant ass pull even if I use it to rustle others. The writing had slipped quite some at that point.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

1.) LMFAO what a surprise, more lies from you = shittier fanfic; Orochimaru states that he was able to hear everything from within Anko not Kabuto. Also he wasn’t able to hear what Madara had relayed to Kabuto. Also on a serious note, I’ve been searching up and down for when Orochimaru stated that he’d absorbed Kabuto’s memories but I can’t find it; help me out and post that page. >And even if he had obtained Kabuto’s memories, for the second time, the context in which Orochimaru and Tobirama were speaking were relating to Madara’s and Hashirama’s first lives, not the Edo resurrection lmfao.
(2.) Lmfao so what? When Madara first awoke the EMS, he went right back to war against Hashirama and the rest of the Senju clan. So how does Sasuke’s feat compare to Madara’s? It doesn’t lmao, not even close. (3) No shit I’m right lmao (4.) Yes and one of his sharingan evolved into a Rinnegan, which is what finally made Madara put him over Obito.

1)

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@ bold

Orochimaru and Kabuto researched on Madara and deduced that the Sharingan can evolve into the Rinnegan. Furthermore Kabuto boosted Edo Madara.

2) Didn't answer the question. If Sasuke never got the Rinnegan do you think a current Adult Sasuke - 16 years later, would be stronger than EMS Madara?

4) No, his intellect is what placed him over Obito. Kid Obito wasn't anywhere near as good as Sasuke pre-Madara training. Regardless of the Rinnegan, obviously Madara would prefer to use Sasuke in his place if he had the chance. Rinnegan is a bonus.

Find the Kobayashi interview it's in there, if memory serves me correct.

I skimmed through and don't see it.

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Because Kishi wrote himself into a corner, hence deus ex machina. Ghost comes out of nowhere ass pulling power ups, where a fraction of a while matches the whole etc.

The Sage's return was foreshadowed from 100 chapter prior. When Naruto was fighting Tobi and gained chakra from each Biju. When he later regained the missing Biju's chakra the Sage was able to appear.

Buddy he has RSM and SM sensory nobody is stabbing him except via plot nerf. Even then a sword cutting Madara was blatant ass pull even if I use it to rustle others. The writing had slipped quite some at that point.

Well plot or not, facts are facts. BZ solo'd Madara.

 

[Animegoin]

1)

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@ bold

Orochimaru and Kabuto researched on Madara and deduced that the Sharingan can evolve into the Rinnegan. Furthermore Kabuto boosted Edo Madara.

2) Didn't answer the question. If Sasuke never got the Rinnegan do you think a current Adult Sasuke - 16 years later, would be stronger than EMS Madara?

4) No, his intellect is what placed him over Obito. Kid Obito wasn't anywhere near as good as Sasuke pre-Madara training. Regardless of the Rinnegan, obviously Madara would prefer to use Sasuke in his place if he had the chance. Rinnegan is a bonus.

1.) -Thanks

-Lmfao You ignored that upper part of my quote I wonder why...hmmm. :sdo:

-@bold: Lmfao you do realize that what you’d typed has no bearing to the subject at hand, right? Whether or not Oro and Kabuto theorized the Rinnegan’s evolution, they weren’t aware that Madara had obtained it prior to being an Edo Tensei until Madara had informed Kabuto of that fact.

Spoiler

Anyway back on topic, Tobirama and Orochimaru weren’t referring to the Edo Tensei variants, they were referring and comparing-contrasting the new reincarnates with their respective predecessors when they were alive. Also, Madara already stated that Kabuto didn’t boost anything lmao when will the fanfic stop?

2.) I answered your question, now answer mine. So how does Sasuke’s feat compare to Madara’s?

3.) I know you try to act smart but you literally skipped point #3 and went straight to #4 lmfao.

4.)Wrong again, Kid Obito wasn’t anywhere near the age that war-arc Sasuke was so praising Sasuke’s skill in relation to Kid Obito’s is literally nonsensical. The only extreme variation aside from their ages is that Sasuke awoke the Rinnegan. Madara wouldn’t have had to sacrifice his own by giving them to a third party and Sasuke could’ve resurrected him himself. Common sense that you continually prove that you lack.