[Predictions] Naruto Manga 507 Discussion and 508 Predictions

[maldoror]

If the external Jugular is cut, the time of death through blood loss is within 5 Minutes, not 3-5 seconds. If the internal Jugular is cut, the time of death for blood loss is within 1 minute, again not 3-5 seconds. The average is 2 minutes if both the Internal and External Jugular is cut, not 12 seconds.

Don't you see a funny math error in your own logic ? Think about it. : )

 

[maldoror]

A) Dead Bodies can not have their minds probed.

Wrong

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[Raised Fist]

Wrong

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and this pic proves what? where can you see if the body is dead or not. i couldn't find the actual site that fast so i'm not sure. but if i remember right then this is the ninja jiraya captured alive when he got 2 of them in his "frog-bar" and tickle them to make them talk^^.

 

[dexter64]

Agree, with a couple of exceptions. First, Itachi didn't forbid Akatsuki and Madara to attack konoha. It was more subtle than that. The scratched forehead protectors mean that they have no more connections with their respective villages. So it should be something meaningful. Itachi could have offered to do the missions that implied konoha (like capturing naruto), avoiding the other members' contact with the village. IMO, Madara was stronger than Itachi, and both of them knew it. My point is that they didn't need Itachi's permission to do something to Konoha

Destroying konoha is like a little game for Madara. He can find time for that in his coffee breaks. It didn't take Pain long to flatten it. So it shouldn't interfere with his other big plans.
---
And the simplest reason for Madara to keep his mask on is Sasuke's amaterasu, which is still active towards madara. Another would be to hide his wrinkles, like Tsunade.

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Madara said, "Itachi's dead... nothing stands in my way now. The leaf village is no longer 'off limits.'" I don't think someone that far stronger and sure that he will win will say something like that. Full powered Madara might be stronger than Itachi, but when he was a shell of his former life, I don't think he stand a chance against Itachi. He might not need Itachi's permission to do something to Konoha, but Madara well aware of the consequences if he did, the last thing he need was fighting Itachi.

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Madara said, "Deidara, Sasori, Hidan, Kakuzu... without them we never would've come this far." Yes, Pain can flatten Konoha, but I don't think Madara can, let alone do it in his coffee break. Hell he could not even handle Minato, in fact he was defeated by Minato.

 

[tricky411]

Definately a great chapter. Got some background on Kisame, and some about the mist village. It was better than the previous chapter.

 

[Alkad]

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Madara said, "Itachi's dead... nothing stands in my way now. The leaf village is no longer 'off limits.'" I don't think someone that far stronger and sure that he will win will say something like that. Full powered Madara might be stronger than Itachi, but when he was a shell of his former life, I don't think he stand a chance against Itachi. He might not need Itachi's permission to do something to Konoha, but Madara well aware of the consequences if he did, the last thing he need was fighting Itachi.

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Madara said, "Deidara, Sasori, Hidan, Kakuzu... without them we never would've come this far. Yes, Pain can flatten Konoha, but I don't think Madara can, let alone do it in his coffee break. Hell he could not even handle Minato, in fact he was defeated by Minato.

Minato is gone, naruto and some other good shinobi are hidden on a remote island. Who stands in his way now? He can kill anyone who's not fast enough with his warping jutsu. Even Minato was vulnerable to it. With his chakra and space-time jutsu Madara can outlast anyone. His EMS is probably not limited to only what we've seen. He has control over all the other bijus (if he can release them somehow) should he ever need them against the village.

As for Itachi denying akatsuki access to konoha..... I can't think of anything to support it. There were 9 members, plus madara, that wouldn't have been happy about Itachi throwing a "Don't touch Konoha!" in their face.:flaw:

I'm sure it was more subtle than that, or a humble request for madara not to destroy it. He even offered to capture Naruto to prevent the rest of them having anything to do with that place.

 

[TosakuYomuin]

This was a really good chapter. I really liked that it showed kisame's loyalty to his village, kind of helps to probe the character. I also liked how Gai (Albeit without trying) outsmarted kisame with the afternoon tiger.

 

[Slashvenom]

5/5 can't wait for next week. And how much longer till we can see Madaras face???? DAMN.

 

[dexter64]

Minato is gone, naruto and some other good shinobi are hidden on a remote island. Who stands in his way now? He can kill anyone who's not fast enough with his warping jutsu. Even Minato was vulnerable to it. With his chakra and space-time jutsu Madara can outlast anyone. His EMS is probably not limited to only what we've seen. He has control over all the other bijus (if he can release them somehow) should he ever need them against the village.

As for Itachi denying akatsuki access to konoha..... I can't think of anything to support it. There were 9 members, plus madara, that wouldn't have been happy about Itachi throwing a "Don't touch Konoha!" in their face.:flaw:

I'm sure it was more subtle than that, or a humble request for madara not to destroy it. He even offered to capture Naruto to prevent the rest of them having anything to do with that place.

Again, Madara said, "Deidara, Sasori, Hidan, Kakuzu... without them we never would've come this far." That's the prove. If Madara is so powerful he didn't need Akatsuki. Until just recently, we don't know how strong Guy and Danzo really are. Likewise, we may have not seen all Tsunade capabilities. Konoha still has the 2 elders which also have never showed their capabilities. Root ANBU also has many members who are quite capable, although below Fu and Torune. Don't forget Kirigakure, somehow they succeeded to make him flee. If we follow your logic then Madara could wipe out the ninja world within a week, so he wouldn't need the moon eye plan. The manga is called Naruto, it's not called Madara, and so far Kishi has not made Madara as powerful as you believed him to be let alone invincible. If he is, then he didn't need to agree to take Kabuto in.

Again Madara said, "Itachi's dead... nothing stands in my way now. The leaf village is no longer 'off limits.'" It's Madara that said it, it's not speculation, it's not prediction, it's not assumption. If it's not enough to support it then nothing will (for you).

 

[Warlock Tigerwolf]

If the external Jugular is cut, the time of death through blood loss is within 5 Minutes, not 3-5 seconds. If the internal Jugular is cut, the time of death for blood loss is within 1 minute, again not 3-5 seconds. The average is 2 minutes if both the Internal and External Jugular is cut, not 12 seconds. Good job on exaggerating the time of death.

Kisame Bit his tongue, it never said he bit off his tongue otherwise we would see his tongue come out of his mouth, why swallow your tongue? Spit it out. Plus people survive having their tongues taken out or cut off. It's relatively the same thing and people can and HAVE survived without their tongue.

I'm wondering where you got your medical license at. Perhaps Cracker Jack University? 3-5 seconds based on 10% of blood pumped out with each heartbeat through those major arteries. trauma increases the heart rate, and so 3-5 seconds is not an exaggeration. 3-5 seconds is between 5-15 heartbeats on an AVERAGE HUMAN. If you want me to look up shark anatomy, provided you can give me the exact species of shark you believe kisame to be, I can figure out a combination there of.

In the mean time, 3-5 seconds from the Femoral or Jugular.
If you are wondering about distance, an average person in reasonable health, can spray blood from the jugular approximately 30-50 feet.

now, if you are assuming that after the vessels are cut, if somebody were to try and stop the bleeding, one might buy 20-30 seconds. Even in surgery, with the heart rate slowed by anesthesia, if one f these vessels is cut the patient will die in less than a minute.

If you want to go by the slaughter house measurements, then your figures are correct. Cattle between the weights of 1000-2000 pounds take approximately 2-3 minutes to exsanguinate. Of course the cattle are sedated, typically through an electrical charge, which slows the heart rate and works much like general anesthesia. Cattle typically have 4-8 times the blood of your average human.

Wrong

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This appears to be inoichi probing the mind of the still living, heavily sedated captured ninja from the rain village who walked into Jiraya's fake bar. He and his friend were both captured, one of them turned into a toad the other sent to konoha, after being tickled for information.... quite the sadistic interrogator jiraya was... Tickling?? Ibiki would have never thought of that.... oh the horror... and kids read this manga and watch this anime!! It's sickening, they they would put such a grotesque torture in the minds of children.... now instead of harmless waterboarding, children will start tickling eachother.

(I'm sure somebody will laugh at that lol)

anyway I'm fairly confident that the individual in the panel you displayed is in fact very much alive.


are there anymore questions?

 

[silenceofthelambs]

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Madara said, "Itachi's dead... nothing stands in my way now. The leaf village is no longer 'off limits.'" I don't think someone that far stronger and sure that he will win will say something like that. Full powered Madara might be stronger than Itachi, but when he was a shell of his former life, I don't think he stand a chance against Itachi. He might not need Itachi's permission to do something to Konoha, but Madara well aware of the consequences if he did, the last thing he need was fighting Itachi.

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Madara said, "Deidara, Sasori, Hidan, Kakuzu... without them we never would've come this far." Yes, Pain can flatten Konoha, but I don't think Madara can, let alone do it in his coffee break. Hell he could not even handle Minato, in fact he was defeated by Minato.

Madara is the master of the Sharingan. He was the first person to awaken both the Mangekyou and Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, so any Sharingan user that goes up against him is most likely at a significant disadvantage. Madara has the best understanding of how the doujutsu works, so I don't think it would be entirely fair to say Madara would not stand a chance against Itachi.

Also, ever since Madara's loss to Hashirama Senju at the Valley of the End, although he claims to be powerless, we probably still have not seen the extent of his power. Also, about Madara's fight with Minato, apparently many people convienently forget that Madara was also controlling the Nine-Tailed Fox before heading into battle with the Fourth Hokage, so that probably took a good amount of his power as well. Not to mention he was fighting a fully-powered Minato as well. If Madara had called the Nine-Tails over to fight Minato instead of letting it continue its destruction of Konoha, I'd say there would be very little Minato would be able to do, for the simple reason that he does not possess Mokuton techniques like Hashirama did when suppressing the fox. Yes, the fact that Madara was defeated does not change, but even still, I wonder how different the results would have been had Madara actually used the Nine-Tails to fight the Fourth.

 

[dexter64]

Madara is the master of the Sharingan. He was the first person to awaken both the Mangekyou and Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, so any Sharingan user that goes up against him is most likely at a significant disadvantage. Madara has the best understanding of how the doujutsu works, so I don't think it would be entirely fair to say Madara would not stand a chance against Itachi.

Also, ever since Madara's loss to Hashirama Senju at the Valley of the End, although he claims to be powerless, we probably still have not seen the extent of his power. Also, about Madara's fight with Minato, apparently many people convienently forget that Madara was also controlling the Nine-Tailed Fox before heading into battle with the Fourth Hokage, so that probably took a good amount of his power as well. Not to mention he was fighting a fully-powered Minato as well. If Madara had called the Nine-Tails over to fight Minato instead of letting it continue its destruction of Konoha, I'd say there would be very little Minato would be able to do, for the simple reason that he does not possess Mokuton techniques like Hashirama did when suppressing the fox. Yes, the fact that Madara was defeated does not change, but even still, I wonder how different the results would have been had Madara actually used the Nine-Tails to fight the Fourth.

Let me put it this way, at the time of the Uchiha massacre, Itachi was only 12 and has had MS, and shortly after that he defeated Oro easily. Granted, against Madara it would not an easy win for Itachi, but make no mistake he would win. Again Madara said, "Itachi's dead... nothing stands in my way now." Stands in my way means obstacle and in this context a huge one at that.

I think you conveniently forgot that Madara was the one that chose to fight Minato. Minato was dealing with the 9 tails when Madara decided to kill Minato quickly. That decision alone told us that somehow Madara thought the 9 tails was no match for Minato, that's why he separated Minato from the 9 tails. Mokuton was not the only way to control the 9 tails, so far we knew 4 other ways, SO6P's way, Kushina's chakra, sealing and Sharingan. Don't forget that Minato was very adept in sealing.

 

[Warlock Tigerwolf]

Madara is the master of the Sharingan. He was the first person to awaken both the Mangekyou and Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan, so any Sharingan user that goes up against him is most likely at a significant disadvantage. Madara has the best understanding of how the doujutsu works, so I don't think it would be entirely fair to say Madara would not stand a chance against Itachi.

Also, ever since Madara's loss to Hashirama Senju at the Valley of the End, although he claims to be powerless, we probably still have not seen the extent of his power. Also, about Madara's fight with Minato, apparently many people convienently forget that Madara was also controlling the Nine-Tailed Fox before heading into battle with the Fourth Hokage, so that probably took a good amount of his power as well. Not to mention he was fighting a fully-powered Minato as well. If Madara had called the Nine-Tails over to fight Minato instead of letting it continue its destruction of Konoha, I'd say there would be very little Minato would be able to do, for the simple reason that he does not possess Mokuton techniques like Hashirama did when suppressing the fox. Yes, the fact that Madara was defeated does not change, but even still, I wonder how different the results would have been had Madara actually used the Nine-Tails to fight the Fourth.

Minato was fighting the kyuubi, while Madara was attacking him.
The kyuubi was just under a sharingan genjutsu, which near as the manga has ever let on, doesn't take any real effort for an uchiha sharingan user to do.

You also forget that Minato had spend hours maintaining a seal on kushina while she was in childbirth, fighting back the kyuubi for her before madara ever showed up.

what it boils down to, very simply, is that minato's combination of techniques is virtually flawless. That madara accomplished all he did is tribute more to madara's cunning and patience, than his sharingan or his power.
That Madara dragged the fight out as long as he did, however, is tribute to madara's abilities and sharingan.

Remember, minato's techniques are mostly an instant kill against any opponent he fights. As soon as you start to think of a technique, he's slit your throat or nailed you with a rasengan.
I think only an exceptional ninja who had minato scouted out, and was ready for him, could ever think to last as long against minato... and I'm not saying to win against him. Simply put there's little or no defense against his techniques (except maybe the Pain who absorbed chakra/ninjitsu/genjutsu)

 

[Narutofan123457]

I'm wondering where you got your medical license at. Perhaps Cracker Jack University? 3-5 seconds based on 10% of blood pumped out with each heartbeat through those major arteries. trauma increases the heart rate, and so 3-5 seconds is not an exaggeration. 3-5 seconds is between 5-15 heartbeats on an AVERAGE HUMAN. If you want me to look up shark anatomy, provided you can give me the exact species of shark you believe kisame to be, I can figure out a combination there of.

In the mean time, 3-5 seconds from the Femoral or Jugular.
If you are wondering about distance, an average person in reasonable health, can spray blood from the jugular approximately 30-50 feet.

now, if you are assuming that after the vessels are cut, if somebody were to try and stop the bleeding, one might buy 20-30 seconds. Even in surgery, with the heart rate slowed by anesthesia, if one f these vessels is cut the patient will die in less than a minute.

If you want to go by the slaughter house measurements, then your figures are correct. Cattle between the weights of 1000-2000 pounds take approximately 2-3 minutes to exsanguinate. Of course the cattle are sedated, typically through an electrical charge, which slows the heart rate and works much like general anesthesia. Cattle typically have 4-8 times the blood of your average human.



This appears to be inoichi probing the mind of the still living, heavily sedated captured ninja from the rain village who walked into Jiraya's fake bar. He and his friend were both captured, one of them turned into a toad the other sent to konoha, after being tickled for information.... quite the sadistic interrogator jiraya was... Tickling?? Ibiki would have never thought of that.... oh the horror... and kids read this manga and watch this anime!! It's sickening, they they would put such a grotesque torture in the minds of children.... now instead of harmless waterboarding, children will start tickling eachother.

(I'm sure somebody will laugh at that lol)

anyway I'm fairly confident that the individual in the panel you displayed is in fact very much alive.


are there anymore questions?

I laughed! Anyway, we can't be sure if he was dead or not, but to help prove maldoror's point, he was extremely close to being dead, if he wasn't dead already. We don't know how long the time span was between the time they got that body and jiraiya dying. However, being stuck without food or water in the stomach of a frog would more than likely kill a person in less than a week. The human body cannot survive more than 4-5 days without water.

 

[danivass]

Did Itachi really have no way to stop Madara if he went after Konoha? Yes, he did, but he just didn't want to resort to it as that would mean he would not be able to fight Sasuke and get Oro out of him. Sure, maybe Madara could have sent Pein to destroy Konoha. But Itachi will know that Pein was ordered so by Madara and would probably use his full MS power to make sure Madara was gone for good. And, after all, he had the Totsuka sword, I think that thing is a 1 hit Madara disposal unit lol xd

 

[kisamexRocks]

Don't you see a funny math error in your own logic ? Think about it. : )

Oh yeah? Please point it out to me that someone that gets their External Jugular cut dies in 3-5 seconds and doesn't survive up to 5 minutes if the person is being treated with pressure on the wound, relaxed and is laying down? Explain from your knowledge of movies that people die really quickly when they bite their tongue off, severing their Jugular? Tell me how a chicken can have his head cut off and survive for over a year. How people can get their tongues ripped off/cut off and yet live. Tell me the miracles behind them.

I'm wondering where you got your medical license at. Perhaps Cracker Jack University? 3-5 seconds based on 10% of blood pumped out with each heartbeat through those major arteries. trauma increases the heart rate, and so 3-5 seconds is not an exaggeration. 3-5 seconds is between 5-15 heartbeats on an AVERAGE HUMAN. If you want me to look up shark anatomy, provided you can give me the exact species of shark you believe kisame to be, I can figure out a combination there of.

3-5 Seconds is an Exaggeration, I'm sure there are cases of people living to more than 3-5 seconds, well in RL anyway, in Movies they exaggerate too much. it is never shown how deep the wound or cut is, it's not even said that Kisame bit OFF his tongue, he just bit his tongue to wake up from the mind reading. Kisame isn't a species of shark, he has/takes the appearance of a shark. Naruto has cat whiskers but he is a normal human, Zetsu is a plant that resembles a venus fly trap but in all he is human. So saying the anatomy of a character to provide the time of death if he were to bite down on his tongue would be pointless, well unless we know what their actual species are and if they have the same or close to the same anatomy of their species. .

In the mean time, 3-5 seconds from the Femoral or Jugular.
If you are wondering about distance, an average person in reasonable health, can spray blood from the jugular approximately 30-50 feet.

I wasn't asking about distance, I was saying that if the Jugular was cut it would be a longer death than 2-5 seconds, there are chances and possibilities of surviving a jugular cut for more than 2-5 seconds.

now, if you are assuming that after the vessels are cut, if somebody were to try and stop the bleeding, one might buy 20-30 seconds. Even in surgery, with the heart rate slowed by anesthesia, if one f these vessels is cut the patient will die in less than a minute.

If it's done properly then you can buy up to a minute. All I am saying is that it's highly possible to survive having your jugular cut for more than 2-5 seconds. Plus if you breathe in before your throat is cut, you might have a better chance of surviving the cut.

If you want to go by the slaughter house measurements, then your figures are correct. Cattle between the weights of 1000-2000 pounds take approximately 2-3 minutes to exsanguinate. Of course the cattle are sedated, typically through an electrical charge, which slows the heart rate and works much like general anesthesia. Cattle typically have 4-8 times the blood of your average human.

I can understand having a bigger amount of blood lasting a longer time, but wouldn't the Jugular be different in size and typically work the same as a regular humans jugular?

I understand what you are trying to say but I doubt that people will always die in 3-5 seconds if they have their Jugular cut, I believe that you can last longer if it is cut not just 3-5 seconds. but perhaps 3seconds - 2 minutes, if everything is done properly to try to save the victim.



anyway I'm fairly confident that the individual in the panel you displayed is in fact very much alive.

The person is alive, he was the captured Ninja that Jiraiya tricked into his fake bar. I don't know why he only showed that picture and not the ones after or before showing the person.

are there anymore questions?

 

[Warlock Tigerwolf]

Oh yeah? Please point it out to me that someone that gets their External Jugular cut dies in 3-5 seconds and doesn't survive up to 5 minutes if the person is being treated with pressure on the wound, relaxed and is laying down? Explain from your knowledge of movies that people die really quickly when they bite their tongue off, severing their Jugular? Tell me how a chicken can have his head cut off and survive for over a year. How people can get their tongues ripped off/cut off and yet live. Tell me the miracles behind them.

2 important things.

A) I stated AVERAGE times. there are always special instances, and generally there is at a minimum 1 exception to every rule.

B) we are talking about the vein in the tongue, not the jugular or femeral. I was using them as a baseline to illustrate the speed with which an individual can bleed to death. The lingual vein does not pump blood as fast as the jugular or femeral arteries. I do not mean that they are slow vessels, ie it can take 5 minutes to exsanguinate from the wrist. the lingual vein is not this slow. my estimation of a minute tops, given an AVERAGE, HUMAN, seem accurate.

Now other factors, Kisame is obviously exerting himself, this causes the heart to beat faster, this pumps blood faster speeding up the process.

Now I am using real medical science to predict what will happen in a fictional story about ninjas able to do superhuman feats with chakra. So if you are determined that Kisame will live, then perhaps it will be something more ninja related than medical?

 

[gtgoku]

@The people debating Madara vs Itachi. Just give it up. According to the people on these forums, Itachi is invincible. They probablythink he could defeat the Juubi with sword of his. If it even touches the Juubi alittle he's sealed forever, right? Itachi fanboys/nut-riders, you guys agree with me right?

 

[dexter64]

@The people debating Madara vs Itachi. Just give it up. According to the people on these forums, Itachi is invincible. They probablythink he could defeat the Juubi with sword of his. If it even touches the Juubi alittle he's sealed forever, right? Itachi fanboys/nut-riders, you guys agree with me right?

And what are you? Are you Madara's fanboy or Itachi's?

As far as I know, at least in this thread, no one has stated that Itachi is invincible or that Itachi could defeat the Juubi. If you're Madara's fanboy obviously you want to say that Madara is invincible and he could defeat the Juubi, maybe even take it a step farther like Madara can't do no wrong and all his defeat has been all planned and well executed.

Or are you Itachi's fanboy and want to say something without provoking those Madara's fanboy?

 

[danivass]

And what are you? Are you Madara's fanboy or Itachi's?

As far as I know, at least in this thread, no one has stated that Itachi is invincible or that Itachi could defeat the Juubi. If you're Madara's fanboy obviously you want to say that Madara is invincible and he could defeat the Juubi, maybe even take it a step farther like Madara can't do no wrong and all his defeat has been all planned and well executed.

Or are you Itachi's fanboy and want to say something without provoking those Madara's fanboy?

Maybe I did in a way, I didn't clarify that Itachi would have to actually hit Madara which is important too as Madara is very fast and could probably just warp himself/Itachi elsewhere.