Do people actually want to wear the Burka?

[Made in Heaven]

Just where does a woman's responsibility for a man's lust toward her end? Sure, if I am trying to have a peaceful dinner in the park, and a girl is naked and crawling all over me, then she's clearly making an effort. If a woman wears tight fitting and revealing clothing, she is probably wanting to be noticed. Even so - that doesn't give men excuse to abandon the ethics and morals which govern the conduct between men and women.

When you are at the point where women showing their face, or even the overall body structure of a female, is considered 'provoking' men and making it the woman's responsibility to 'not make herself a target' - you have let yard animals take over your culture. Women don't need a burka in that setting, they or the few good men remaining need a scythe to strike down the criminals and bring order to the savages.

The responsibility isn't solely on the woman though. Yes, they are advised to cover up, and the ruling is more strict with them then with men, but the ruling still applies to men as well, as they too must dress modestly. That said, the covering of the face isn't part of the dress code, at least, it is not mandatory. And men are told to lower their gazes when around women.

In Islam, a man’s private is from the navel to the knee, which many people would ask "does this mean a man can show his chest to a women? Would this not cause temptation?" However, just because a man's privates are considered to be from the navel to the knee, this does not mean that it is permissible for a man to show his chest front of women. Although the chest is not part of the privates, uncovering it is still an action that is not appropriate for a man and is one of the actions of the immoral.

It should be noted that if doing something permissible will result in some evil, then it is not allowed, because of the evil to which it leads. If a man’s uncovering his chest will be a cause temptation or will open the door to evil, then it should be disallowed for that reason.

This is just my own personal theory, but I think the reason things are set up this way is because men are stronger, and thus can force themselves onto a women if they feel like it. In the case of a women, even if she is attracted to a man, this is not normally possible. And at the same time, men are more *** driven then women.

There is some common ground to be found, here.

It's not that I don't think women should be working - women willing to jump in and get the job done are awesome and infinitely preferable to dolls, wall flowers, or simple breed stock. It's that men are failing when women -must- be the ones to step up and answer. As you said - that is our biological role as men.

Working with women, while preferable, introduces a number of its own complications. I will not deny that I am a bit of a sexist - I certainly prefer the company of women to men. Depending on the task - I think the male/female unit working together functions extremely well. Men tend to have a very linear and organized approach to breaking down a task while women tend to naturally fall into a supporting role - such as going to grab the tool designed to solve the problem as the guy is going raging-monkey on an uncooperative machination.

However, men also have an unfair preference for women. It should be rather easy to see with the games and media I like - I prefer to set up all female teams. That's a problem, as in the real world, men and women are not simple cameos over otherwise equal stats. Of the numerous people I have rotate through my station as temporary labor help, the men tend to be far more quick studies and tend to have far fewer problems physically performing the demands of the job. I show a guy what is going on once, and he's usually figuring things out on his own. I show a girl... and I usually have to come back around and explain things a little better after I get that look of ".... help?" from across the aisle.

Generally speaking, men should dominate the position I am in if we are going strictly according to performance. That said - there is a certain sort of 'romance' (situational, not really interpersonal) to the idea of a woman succeeding in a man's world. Male fantasy stories are dominated by women who are the equals of men in the world of work and contest. If the role of men and women is mutually supportive of each other, it makes sense that men would want to try and advance women into roles they are not the superior performers in simply for the sake of that romantic ideal of pure egalitarianism.

Which is cute when a girl is struggling to cut steel banding a guy of even lighter build can snap right off.... dangerous when you have women expected to stand toe-to-toe with picks against ore veins and other such pursuits. The pursuit of idealism has a cost.

I'm all for women working in jobs that suit them, hence why my first post says "for the most part", as I am speaking in general here. My problem is women who become mothers and still choose their career over fulfilling their obligation to raise their kids. Another issue is women who spend their youth working, hit their late 30s and finally decide it's time to start a family, and then become miserable because they can't do so. Like, if a women's husband is making enough money to support them financially and with good stability, I don't think the wife should be working outside the house, but inside the house instead.

Again, I don't completely disagree. However, the concept of 'work' and 'career' has also changed, or, rather, been dominated by the masculine role. The 'working woman' of the West came out of both the Industrial Revolution and the Post-Depression War economies of the West as men were rounded up to go kill each other and women left to figure out how to produce the means. That was literally displacing men with women in a male career path.

Women are far more than simple child-bearers, and can aspire to more in their lives - should, I would argue. The question is how to integrate this with the rather obvious realization that women must ultimately be the bearers of children in society.

There are few greater tragedies, in my mind, than the conclusion a few great young women I know, personally, have arrived at... that the world would be better off if they didn't have children. This is probably one of the most horrifying things to hear from someone - particularly women who I have recognized as extremely intelligent and well mannered. If ANYONE should be having kids at some point in their life - it should be them.

Consider how heinous it is... girls are raised to believe the world is on the edge of disaster, that their problems are centered around men, etc. Then, those who are particularly intelligent and have a sense of responsibility decide to take it upon themselves to end their family lineage. Tens... hundreds... of thousands of years... millions of years of men and women fighting against the odds to come to this day... only to have their daughters give up on the idea of life succeeding.

While the slobbering masses who can barely process existentialism reproduce ad-nausea. It's enough to drive a person like myself to spitting anger, dropping meteors on heads.

no real comment to make, I agree here.

Stand by on the sexualizing of children thing. Lot of people getting ready to go to jail for that nonsense.

While I would disagree with the statement that the Burka should be banned in public - what I would say is that within America, at the very least, all cultures are subject to the law. The law states that there are certain liberties afforded to citizens, and that no legal structure, national, state, or local, can act against them. This has been upheld in the court of law. I can't sign a contract that binds me to indentured servitude. I am free to quit that 'job' and work at another.

As such, no religious group has authority to violate those liberties, either. A church, for example, can't fine me or deprive me of property I own as a consequence for violating some religious tenant. They can decide not to let me back in the building - but there are limits to what consequences can precipitate from a religious organization. As such - a muslim community could not impose legal consequences on a woman who refused to wear a Burka from among them. They may not have to let her into their mosque and/or be able to kick her out of the house - but any kind of vigilantism or extra-legal penalty system is against the law.

You will see this come into effect as certain religious groups (not just one) within the U.S. are dealt with rather harshly for having their own system of underground laws and codes used to pass judgment on 'members' outside the bounds of the laws established as set forth by the U.S. Constitution.

Likewise, there are dress requirements for any job. I can't wear loose fitting clothing in the factory because it can get caught on stuff and pull me into a machine. That... and if you want to wear a burka in a factory during the heat of August... have fun with that. Even the locals of the Persian Gulf thought we were fucking insane for working at high noon and sweating through it.

Other jobs require you to be visible. A burka destroys most of that.

If a women is wearing clothing like the Burka, she shouldn't be working jobs like that anyways. There's far more burka-friendly careers to choose from to avoid having to compromise one's dress code. Generally speaking, if someone is wearing burka/hijab, it would have to be in an office setting, or maybe in retail, fast food places, resturants, etc and not one that requires too much physical labor.

 

[MomoSaka]

It's funny hearing some muzlimz talking about kids health when islam teaches parents to beat their children
I think the Islam world in general, is the worst place for a child to be raised, children are getting beaten everywhere, especially in schools and homes

OT: no one wants to wear burka unless they're brainwashed by their parents or their society and religion, or they believe that women are a piece of meat.

No, it doesn't. Don't discuss and talk about something you don't even know anything about.

 

[Made in Heaven]

It's funny hearing some muzlimz talking about kids health when islam teaches parents to beat their children

If you inspect the life of Prophet Muhammad, you never find anything about beating kids or women. And as Prophet Muhammad is the leader for all Muslims, this means that no Muslim is allowed to beat any kid or woman, at all. Islam teaches that merely patting the head of orphan as a sign of comfort is a great deed, that dealing with others with mercy and patience are among the highest forms of virtue, and you want to tell me it encourages parents to beat senseless? lmao!!! The baseless nonsense you people come up with is comedy gold :lol

I think the Islam world in general, is the worst place for a child to be raised

Yeah, probably because they've been being bombed and murdered for the past 30-40 years and counting. Wonder how your pansy ass would deal with living in a war zone. I'm sure it wouldn't have any effect on your psyche and behavior right? lmao Soldiers get PTSD from what they do to strangers, they come back to their first world country and fall apart from the mental pain they suffer, and this clown wants to believe a third world country of children who grew to become adults and had kids of their own wouldn't have developmental and mental problems from the things they've been through.

children are getting beaten everywhere, especially in schools and homes

That isn't an islamic problem you dunderhead. The fact that you're trying to push child abuse onto one group of people while trying to act like it isn't an issue all across the world just to hate on muslims is highly disrespectful of all the non-muslim children who are also abused by their parents, as you are essentially saying child abuse does not exist outside of Islam.

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OT: no one wants to wear burka unless they're brainwashed by their parents or their society and religion, or they believe that women are a piece of meat.

That's how men see women though :lol

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[Oblivionx]

I know someone who compared it to other dress codes, like maybe in the past it was important for people to wear certain clothes and it was shameful to not do this, maybe it's similar.

I wonder what kids think when they run around with hijabs on them if they think their parents are forcing it or something.
In some way banning it is going against freedom of religion right? Cus then it's hard to express your faith. There are verses in the koran I think that this comes from, it's obviously a part of the religion.
¨
I know someone on tv who complained when a female politican went to Iran with other politicians and wore the Hijab cus he thought it sent a bad message to people at home, but I'm like what was she supposed to do? Maybe people are too sensitive about it.
Maybe a part of banning it is not just about oppression against women through wearing a piece of cloth but also because they don't like that culture.

Sorry for making long posts. I'm not quite at AIM64 level yet though.

It's interesting when you talk about religion and things that don't go well in a "modern" society, like do you need to be against homosexuality if you are a christian? Cus if you are people are gonna think you are in some hategroup.

It does seem like people want to and I think they should be allowed to if they do.

I don't think it should be forced, regardless of religion.
I know some examples where people film kids at daycare to inform their parents if they have had the hijab on or not. That's not right.

yeah you are right for the most part. Though its more psychological in your case. You have made up your mind that no clothes on is the future. Though that does seem to be the case but you also think, western culture is superior. Which is not true at all coz its all subjective. The only reason you or people think that way is coz west is ahead in technology. Might is right after all. Its natural for people to adapt to powerful culture. Same happened back when Muslims were powerful.

 

[MomoSaka]

There's a hadith that gives the right for parents to beat their children
I was born a muzlim but now i'm an atheist, so I probably know about Islam more than you do

Lol, and what makes me believe that you (just like a lot of people) misunderstood what was written in that "hadith" or even didn't read it "fully"?

I am a muslim myself, what are you talking about? If you truly know about Islam more than me, then you should be aware that there are a lot of different types of "Ahadith", some of them are "completely" false, others can be considered "weak", and ofc there are the ones that are "true". To varify the accuarcy of a "hadith", there are a few thing that needs to be checked first. Please, go ahead and post that "hadith", because what you're saying is completely against prophet mohammed's words.

Read MIH's reply, highly doubt you can deny anything she has said.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

Yea I guess.
Didn't realize I was gonna piss people off, I just thought it was an interesting topic.

Look, man. No disrespect. I love you as my siblings. But I get pissed when some people get their ideas wrong. The thing is, the world is changing whether it suits our purposes or not, it's happening.

- Women in Saudi Arabia are driving.
- Hardly shit been given these days when a woman walks the streets without her "burka"
- The current generation of parents in Saudi Arabia know most the shit of this world better than their children. The kids won't fool them.

I'm Saudi. I'm a native Saudi from a Saudi tribe. I know better than any of those fuckers who post here around. Perhaps you could ask me first how our life-style as Saudis looks like now.

===

It's funny hearing some muzlimz talking about kids health when islam teaches parents to beat their children
I think the Islam world in general, is the worst place for a child to be raised, children are getting beaten everywhere, especially in schools and homes

OT: no one wants to wear burka unless they're brainwashed by their parents or their society and religion, or they believe that women are a piece of meat.

I wish there is a Saudi female here in NB. I really wish, so she will slap your face with reality. You can't fool anyone by this post. You just think Islam is the worst, but live with this thought. Islam this and that. Take all that shit you learned from the Internet and shove it up your ass.

 

[salamander uchiha]

It's about as oppressive as western society saying women shouldn't dress like whores.In other words, it's a matter of decency and chastity.


no, I don't think you have a right to go calling yourself religious if you're not going to practice the mandatory parts of the religion while inciting evil and lust in men around you.


First off, women shouldn't be working for the most part, that's a man's role to provide for himself and the women in his family. That said, western society has gone against traditional values that were set in place by Christianity and convinced feminists that getting a job is better than being a stay at home mother. Shockingly, God was right, who would have thought a women fulfilling her natural role would lead to happiness?

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Not only that, women with children also work, leaving the kid's in the care of strangers, which creates behavioral problems and a sense of detachment/abandonment from the parent's. If one parent is enough to provide for the kids, the mother shouldn't be working as her job is to take care of the kids.

But to address what you said, no I don't think it should be banned in the work place. It's just an article of clothing, so why pick it out specifically amidst all the other types of clothing? I mean, for God's sake, you have faggots in their parades wearing BDSM gear and sexualizing children, and you want to tell me a women dressing modestly is something to be shunned? I guess the west is all for that considering the *** positivity nonsense has done nothing but harm society.

Good points.

we should all dress in glorious soviet military regalia and sacrifice the blood of bourgeoisie at the altar of communism tbh

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They're not communist but me like anyways

OT: I dont see a problem with it as LB has pointed out.

I will go further and say that covering the face isn't forced on the women in Islam that's their choice. There are lots of muslims near me and I see them whenever I go to the park. I've seen the women wearing head scarves and I've seen some wearing a Burka, they do it out of choice to show their devotion.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

And when the Prophet said "beat", someone expect a father will beat his son painfully if the son skipped a prayer.

You know? If you don't know, just say I don't know. Has it never crossed your mind that parents hit their kids... kinda you know... like a butt slap or something? Or use a light stick and give them some sort of sting on leg, on thigh, on arm. Not actual beat? Has it never crossed your mind?

No of course not. The father will go Rock Lee on Gaara. Really. You're an intellectual power house.

 

[Mori Jin]

Yes Muslim women do want wear the Burka. As it's a part of Islam, and they want to follow. Notice i said Muslim women and not Liberal Women, they're a whole new form of cancer within the Muslim society, more akin to non-muslims then actual Muslims.

Anyway I find it funny that the West, claim to be all for a women's rights, but when a Muslim women says she wants to wear the Burka and that it's not forced on her, then she's oppressed and needs to be liberated. It's the highest of form of hypocrisy if I've ever seen any.

The West has all these filthy things and people coming out on a day to day basis, instead tackling that, they're trying to oppress women. They'd sooner expect paedophilia, incest between siblings/parents, and beastiality (like they soon will with paedophilia), then expect a practising Muslim Man/Women's attire.

I'd give the West another 100 - 150 years, before it's downfall. It would be fun to watch but I'd definetly be dead before then.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

Islam tells men to beat their wives if they are disobedient.

I'm trying to understand the mentality behind this statement. Even us we know our religion and if we tell you there isn't anything in Islam teaches men about that, you wouldn't believe us.

Stop talking rubbish no it doesn't. If you knew what a miswaak was you'd know your comment is retarded or the context of the word beating.

This whole debate quite reminds me of the consoles peasants against PC.

Top 10 Why console is Better than PC blah blah blah.

You can't use common sense with consoles peasants.

 

[Uchihaa Sasuke]

It doesn't matter how women and children are getting beaten, its a humiliation anyway.
And not everyone is going into details to see how the beating should be done, when they see the verse orders them to beat their wives and children, they'll just do it in anyway they want to.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

It doesn't matter how women and children are getting beaten, its a humiliation anyway.
And not everyone is going into details to see how the beating should be done, when they see the verse orders them to beat their wives and children, they'll just do it in anyway they want to.

And what would cause a man to beat his wife and/or children? What did they do to cause them getting hurt by the family man? There are always reasons.

A wife would deserve a beat if she disrespected her parent in law or hurt her children in some brutal way.
Or if his son stole or hurt someone or disrespected his mom.

There are always ways in punishments. It takes only a rational guy to punish his wife or his son/daughter in a way not leaving marks on their bodies. Only an ignorant husband would do that. It doesn't matter if he's religious or not if he's not educated.

I didnt say something that was false. You insulted me for speaking the truth becuase it didnt suit your viewpoint. You need to grow up.

Neither I. You insulted a man you know nothing of him. I have no viewpoint or some sort of agenda. I don't care if you became even a Muslim. And funny it comes from someone telling me to grow up and knowing nothing of religion or its figures. **** off.

 

[Uchihaa Sasuke]

And what would cause a man to beat his wife and/or children? What did they do to cause them getting hurt by the family man? There are always reasons.

A wife would deserve a beat if she disrespected her parent in law or hurt her children in some brutal way.
Or if his son stole or hurt someone or disrespected his mom.

There are always ways in punishments. It takes only a rational guy to punish his wife or his son/daughter in a way not leaving marks on their bodies. Only an ignorant husband would do that. It doesn't matter if he's religious or not if he's not educated.


Neither I. You insulted a man you know nothing of him. I have no viewpoint or some sort of agenda. I don't care if you became even a Muslim. And funny it comes from someone telling me to grow up and knowing nothing of religion or its figures. **** off.

Not always there is a reason

Some men are just stressed because of their jobs or want to prove themselves as men or whatever so they beat their wives and children for little to no reason at all. And I personally know muzlim people that do that.
This could make miseries in some extreme cases. And the reason why that happens is beacuse muslim men know they have the right to beat their women and chidren based on islamic teachings.

 

[PT1990]

Neither I.

You said that islam dont tell ment to beat their wives, I proved you wrong with exact quotations.

You insulted a man you know nothing of him.

Oh, unfortunately for you I know quite a few things about him. For example that he massacred Qurayza Jews and many, many more people. Hell, if it wasnt for Charles Martel islam would conquer Europe.

 

[ArabianLuffy]

Some men are just stressed because of their jobs or want to prove themselves as men or whatever so they beat their wives and children for little to no reason at all.

Imagine a Muslim man works in a restaurant, and this restaurant is always crowded and there are many orders to cover. This Muslim man everyday faces stresses by his workmates, by his manager/supervisor and costumers. Once he returns home...

Husband:​	Curse the restaurant! Curse the costumers! CURSE THEM ALL!
Wife:​	Darling, what's the matter?
Husband:​	SHUT UP! SHUT THE HELL UP, BITCH!

Yup. It's all Islam's fault as much as Obama has a hand in it.

You said that Islam doesn't tell men to beat their wives, I proved you wrong with exact quotations.

Does a husband beat his wife if the wife didn't provide her husband's basic needs?
Would a husband let it go if his wife disrespect her mother in law or spit in her face?
Would a husband ignore his wife and his sister if the two females fought each other?
Would a husband let it go if his wife used a hot metal and burned certain part on a son's/daughter's skin or if the wife hit the son's head and the son's head bleeding?

There are many cases where the husband decide what kind of punishment fits. At most cases, the husband would go to his parents of law to complain about his wife (their daughter) and seek some consultation from his mother in law.

You see, Muslim men always and always seek help from their parents in law when things get out of hand. Sometimes even the mother in law and the brothers in law would tell the husband to punish his wife based on the deed. For a Muslim husband, it doesn't go beyond a thin light stick and sting/hit his wife. It will hurt her, but no bruise, no broken bones, no blood. Just pain at lowest degree and on top of that not infront the kids.

You know nothing.

Oh, unfortunately for you I know quite a few things about him. For example, that he massacred Qurayza Jews and many, many more people. Hell, if it wasn't for Charles Martel Islam would conquer Europe.

That's right. Muhammad ordered to kill Qurayza of the Jews. Do you know why?

I don't know what Charles Martel has to do with Muhammad since Martel born 58 years later after Muhammad's death, but whatever.

 

[Made in Heaven]

"Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

"And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..."

You do realize (what am I saying, of course you don't) this context is if she's being a *****, right? Considering how many men are getting cucked nowadays by thots on birth control and backed by the government, hence why the creation of "red pill" and "MGTOW", I'd say getting hit by a palm-sized branch in exchange for ruining a man's life, trust, and lineage isnt that bad of a trade.

[video=youtube;wXqOCA96atk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXqOCA96atk[/video]

 

[ArabianLuffy]

I know more than enough.

I'll judge when you tell me why Muhammad ordered to kill Qurayza of the Jews.

Are you saying that he wasn't a warlord?

Does fighting for what he believes makes him a warlord?
Does avenging against who betrayed him and yet they were Jews who violated a pact makes him a warlord?

Of course that Muhammad was dead, but Muslims invade Europe, because of his sick ideology. They were just doing what Muhammad was doing during his life. Guys from ISIS are doing the same today.

All that and you're gonna tell me why Muhammad killed the Qurayza of the Jews.

 

[Mori Jin]

Looks like he ran away, typical troll.

 

[salamander uchiha]

She wasn't. She was 19.

True. There's an actual dispute on her age something most people dont realise. I think they think that muslims accept and take all hadith as they see them. If they did they'd be marrying their children off as kids as young as 9 but that doesn't happen.

 

[Made in Heaven]

Fact is she was oonly 9 when the marriage was consumed, not 19 like you are saying.

lol I'll break this down, but I doubt this'll do anything.

-Aisha was born before Islam was revealed in 610
-Hijra was in 622
-Aisha’s older sister of 10 years, Asmaa, was 27 at the time of Hijra, making A’sha 17 at the time of Hijra.
-Aisha was engaged to the Prophet two years after the death of Khadijah, or a year before the Hijrah.
-Aisha moved in with the Prophet a year or two after the Hijrah, or two to four years after her betrothal. (Various reports are unclear, but all agree as to the general time frame.)
-Aisha was involved in the battles of Badr (624) and Uhud (625), in neither of which was anyone under the age of 15 was allowed to partake in, meaning she was at least 16.
-Aisha was widowed in 633

So it's obvious she was in her late teens at the time of marriage.

The hadith of Aisha being 9 at the time of marriage was reported by Hisham bin ‘Urwa (born in 683).

-None of the reports come from Mecca or Medina, where Hisham bin ‘Urwa spent the first 70 years of his life.
-Hisham spent the last 15 years of his life in Iraq, where all of the reports come from.
-It is reported that as he became older, Hisham’s memory suffered quite badly.
-When we look at this information, we learn some very interesting facts. Hisham bin ‘Urwa (who was born after Aisha died) spent the majority of his life in Madina, and yet no one else from Madina ever confirmed his reports about Aisha’s age at the time of her marriage.

So essentially what we’re dealing with here is a false hadith which was misreported by an elderly man with a bad memory.

After all, the prophet's first wife, Khadija, is reported to have married him at between the ages of 28 to 40, a massive 12 year margin of error. So the same happening with Aisha isn't surprising. That said, as I showed above, the historical dates say otherwise.

Even with all that said, the Quran states that the age of marriage for people is when they are physically and mentally fit. A 9 year old is anything but either of those. The Quran clearly contradicts the Hadith in this case, which means the Hadith is invalid.

Further readings if you care.

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Video explanation.

[video=youtube;0oVIsExS4cA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0oVIsExS4cA[/video]