Can A Naruto Hero Win w/o Villain Nerf or A**pull?

[Ansatsuken]

can a villain win if the hero has killing intent?

Hashirama held back against Madara

Hiruzen held back against Oro

Jaraiya held back against Itachi

Naruto held back against Sasuke

Guy held back against Itachi

Itachi held back against Sasuke

With hero killing intent and bloodlust, Naruto would've ended 95% of all shinobi himself

Most of the villains you listed actually are weaker than the good guy/Hero. So the Hero doesnt need plot help to defeat their villain.

But is impossible for our hero to defeat much stronger villains like Kaguya or JJ Madara without helping from the plot. No logical way.

 

[ThelUchiha]

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Sharingan and Kurama used to have cool draw backs. Now they get free power with low effort or means of control.

Its funny... your boy have the same scars as me...

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[salamander uchiha]

Yes every major villian Naruro fought.

 

[Guntah]

Pain was beaten honestly. The closest thing you can count as an asspull there I think would be Minato saving Naruto's life and rewriting his seal, but I don't count it because it doesn't directly affect the outcome of the battle.

 

[To Whatever]

Yes every major villian Naruro fought.

And Sasuke. Both are literally carried by plot in the most unsubtle way possible.

If it’s not a sudden powerup, it’s the villains plot induced stupidity, if it’s neither, someone saves or heals them.

Naruto and Sasuke have yet to legitimately win against a villain in a 1v1 without some form of assistance, and this is counting Naruto and Kurama being one entity due to sharing bodies.

 

[salamander uchiha]

And Sasuke. Both are literally carried by plot in the most unsubtle way possible.

If it’s not a sudden powerup, it’s the villains plot induced stupidity, if it’s neither, someone saves or heals them.

Naruto and Sasuke have yet to legitimately win against a villain in a 1v1 without some form of assistance, and this is counting Naruto and Kurama being one entity due to sharing bodies.

Strangely enough I agree however in Sasuke's case there are times where he can win if not for nerf. I think he mostly went down hill around the pain arc and never really recovered.

 

[TheEvilOne]

True, but he'd still shit on them.

 

[Naruto X Hunter]

Pain was beaten honestly. The closest thing you can count as an asspull there I think would be Minato saving Naruto's life and rewriting his seal, but I don't count it because it doesn't directly affect the outcome of the battle.

Great signature. Shoto is a boss.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

Furthermore, Sasuke was stated to be greater than Itachi & Naruto.

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I wouldn't put too much stock in those quotes...orochimaru (the sasuke fanboy) was delivering the exposition...and even then he was mostly referring to sasuke's potential

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

yeah, Zabuza said haku was holding back and attacking non vitals with his needles.

And Zabazu was just outright nerfed.


Naruto and Sasuke are probably the most coddled protagonists when it comes to fighting enemies.


They always find a way out or get a re-do or power up. Even when they were legitimately killed they came back even stronger.




My boy Deku, knows how to win and make it believable. Heck, even when he wins, he loses.

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Sharingan and Kurama used to have cool draw backs. Now they get free power with low effort or means of control.



Used to build suspense when Curse mark fucks Sasuke over, or Naruto ends up losing control.

except those times when deku asspulled his way to victory against shinso and muscular

 

[sasuketenten]

And Sasuke. Both are literally carried by plot in the most unsubtle way possible.

If it’s not a sudden powerup, it’s the villains plot induced stupidity, if it’s neither, someone saves or heals them.

Naruto and Sasuke have yet to legitimately win against a villain in a 1v1 without some form of assistance, and this is counting Naruto and Kurama being one entity due to sharing bodies.

Not sure I agree with you. I saw the sasuke fight vs deridara as a legit win..sasuke outsmarted him with what he had..his base sharingan..no power up, ms or higher. It was a great display of tactics and working with what he had. To a certain extend I think the battle vs danzo fits into this as well. In that fight sasuke got no help unless we count that sad attempt by karin that got her one shotted and in no way did that decide the outcome of that battle...the susanoo increase was a natural reaction to sasuke uchiha blood line..I don't consider that a a##pull.

 

[sasuketenten]

But pain captured Naruto which was he mission..in that regard pain won...the a##pull begins right after with HINATA stepping in and getting almost killed which then leads to the 9tails release and it changes the outcome of the fight bc if we go by the book and exclude the HINATA help and everything after that, pain would have and did win.

 

[To Whatever]

except those times when deku asspulled his way to victory against shinso and muscular

How were they asspulls?

Muscular literally forced him to create full cowl because the arm he used 1M Detroit smash was wrecked far worse than his previous fights. It actually cost Deku something. He can’t just spam or use 1M Detroit smash after that fight.


Deku legitimately won and loss all of his battles.

 

[To Whatever]

Not sure I agree with you. I saw the sasuke fight vs deridara as a legit win..sasuke outsmarted him with what he had..his base sharingan..no power up, ms or higher. It was a great display of tactics and working with what he had. To a certain extend I think the battle vs danzo fits into this as well. In that fight sasuke got no help unless we count that sad attempt by karin that got her one shotted and in no way did that decide the outcome of that battle...the susanoo increase was a natural reaction to sasuke uchiha blood line..I don't consider that a a##pull.

Did you forget when he summoned a snake, cast genjutsu and went inside of him despite having little to no chakra?

Karin healed him against Danzo because they stabbed each other when they clashed.
Naruto and Sasuke are my favs but I’m not going to act like all their fights weren’t either asspulls or PIS.

 

[gerizzyYMcrew]

How were they asspulls?

Muscular literally forced him to create full cowl because the arm he used 1M Detroit smash was wrecked far worse than his previous fights. It actually cost Deku something. He can’t just spam or use 1M Detroit smash after that fight.


Deku legitimately won and loss all of his battles.

bullcrap...the 1,000,000% smash should have never been possible...and his win against shinso was a LITERAL deus ex machina

 

[To Whatever]

bullcrap...the 1,000,000% smash should have never been possible...and his win against shinso was a LITERAL deus ex machina

@bold Why not?

Uh, no.

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All for One is clearly has links to the past that was forshadowed against shinso. So what nonesense are you talking about?

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[gerizzyYMcrew]

@bold Why not?

after being pinned down by muscular deku suddenly has the power to summon more than 100% of his power with broken arms?...that's bullshit

Uh, no.

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All for One is clearly has links to the past that was forshadowed against shinso. So what nonesense are you talking about?

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still doesn't change the fact that the vision of those past one for all users (convenient timing by the way) should have had in no way shape or form interfered with the power of shinso's quirk...it was bullshit

 

[sasuketenten]

Did you forget when he summoned a snake, cast genjutsu and went inside of him despite having little to no chakra?

Karin healed him against Danzo because they stabbed each other when they clashed.
Naruto and Sasuke are my favs but I’m not going to act like all their fights weren’t either asspulls or PIS.

By the time Karin healed sasuke the fight was clearly over..danzo was without a doubt defeated so any upgrades after that doesn't matter bc it wasn't a factor in the outcome of the fight. Now if you are talking about the deidara fight,we dont know the exact amount of chakra casting genjutsu requires...remenber deidara was suppose to be out of chakra as well and he still cast a snake attack ninjutsu aganist sasuke..where did that chakra come from? I think some of your problems isn't with sasuke but with kish and his writing. My point is other ninja beside sasuke gets a##pulls so why have you made your focused on sasuke?

 

[To Whatever]

after being pinned down by muscular deku suddenly has the power to summon more than 100% of his power with broken arms?...that's bullshit



still doesn't change the fact that the vision of those past one for all users (convenient timing by the way) should have had in no way shape or form interfered with the power of shinso's quirk...it was bullshit

-You can go beyond 100%, how is that bullshit?

-Shinso quirk alters your consciousness, he only has those visions when he's dreaming which is why.


You're nit picking.

 

[Kadmos1]

If you count the people fighting and not the outside events (Person A is fighting Person B but Person C is talking to Person D) nor do you count the events after the fight ends (Person A heals Person B), then I think Gai's fight with Madara wasn't an ass-pull. Even the mighty Madara with the Juubi chakra admitted Gai almost defeated him.