Can A Naruto Hero Win w/o Villain Nerf or A**pull?
- Thread starter Devauzamaki
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InfiniteMugen
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No... that’s pretty much how any fight in any series is. They fight people that should beat them, and then plot their way out. It’s a story not a documentary on ninja
SumnNarutoRelated
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can a villain win if the hero has killing intent?
Hashirama held back against Madara
Hiruzen held back against Oro
Jaraiya held back against Itachi
Naruto held back against Sasuke
Guy held back against Itachi
Itachi held back against Sasuke
With hero killing intent and bloodlust, Naruto would've ended 95% of all shinobi himself
Hashirama held back against Madara
Hiruzen held back against Oro
Jaraiya held back against Itachi
Naruto held back against Sasuke
Guy held back against Itachi
Itachi held back against Sasuke
With hero killing intent and bloodlust, Naruto would've ended 95% of all shinobi himself
To Whatever
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chaos control
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It is pretty much like Infinite Mugen said. The villain has to be stronger than the hero. Otherwise, what is the point? Can you imagine if Kishi wrote Madara to be about Kiba level? How pathetic would that be?
Is that really what you want?
Is that really what you want?
HowDidIGetPrem
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The fix would be as easy as having the hero battle against a villain that's on roughly the same level.
ThelUchiha
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To Whatever
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Neither of them should have survived the Land of waves arc.
Haku was throwing his needles at non vitals the entire time, and they nerfed Zabuza greatly.
ThelUchiha
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Naruto X Hunter
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If anything Naruto was the villian. He was trying to forcefully subdue and bring someone back to a place they didn't want to be. Whereas Sasuke was the hero who tried getting justice for the Uchiha whilst the village was proven to be incompetent.
A younger Itachi murders the village's strongest clan - the Police Force. Then he returns older and stronger, infiltrating the village declaring that he's after it's Jinchuriki - Naruto. He whips two of their top Jounin with his fellow S-Class internationally wanted criminal partner - Kisame of the 7 mist swordsmen, being with him whipping another. Gai arrives saying he called backup then they run away. They managed to find Naruto who was unexpectedly with Jiraiya - a Sanin, and manage to escape again. Does Konoha continue to pursue them? No. That's as far as they go. Logically they should have done their best to apprehend these criminals.
Meanwhile when they hear about Hidan and Kakuzu, two less powerful enemies, they send out their troops to handle them til they're dead. Big difference right? Maybe Konoha knew they didn't have anyone strong enough to deal with them so they didn't bother to expend their manpower? Nope, we find out that the higher ups are in cohoots with Itachi, having ordered him to carry out genocide and leave the village as a rogue shinobi.
And calling Itachi a hero against Sasuke is even more ridiculous. He went behind the Hokages back, listening to an oppressive dictator's orders to wipe out a group of people who were being persecuted and just wanted civil rights. People who were purposefully pushed to the point of rebellion so he could use that as an excuse to execute them in the name of "maintaining peace". Which ironically put the village in great danger as they had lost their strongest clan within a single night. Other villages could have use this as an advantage and attacked the now weakened Konoha.
As for unnerfed battles, Kishimoto restricted Sasuke from utilizing his copying ability to his full advantage throughout the entire series so he wouldn't become too strong to quickly.
Kakashi - a non-Uchiha who is negatively effected from using the Sharingan, managed to copy over 1000 techniques. Sasuke could do alot better.
Through his intelligence & training he was already able to make extraordinary progress in rapid succession within a short amount of time. Hence learning both his nature elements in days well enough to master high level jutsu in addition to gaining Lee's level of High Speed Taijutsu without the weights, despite it usually taking Shinobi years just to hone their element alone.
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Now factor in being able to perfectly copy techniques just from seeing it once.
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Furthermore, Sasuke was stated to be greater than Itachi & Naruto.
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chaos control
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That's lame and unrealistic for every villain to be less than or equal to the hero. That leaves no room for the hero to actually overcome some real adversity.
Plus, that is pretty hard to pull off in a series like Naruto where power levels are based on what kind of specific jutsus you have. It would be easier to pull this off in Dragon Ball where power level is literally just how much ki you have for the most part. In Dragon Ball's case, all you have to do is just give the enemy around the same amount of ki/raw power as the hero and you're set (Super Saiyan Blue Goku vs Golden Frieza was more or less a prime example of this).
However, power isn't as quantifiable with the way powers work in Naruto, and abc logic isn't as applicable.
Also, another reason why that is a bad idea:
Why should someone such as a legendary clan leader who is hyped up for the whole manga and who has about a century worth of experience and who grew up in the era of warring states, be equal to some 16 year old kid?
Why should the progenitor of chakara, the juubi itself, the mother of the sage of the six paths, be equal to some 16 year old kid?
Why should any major antagonist really (initially) be at the same level as the hero? (I say initially because it is fine if the hero powers up mid battle to reach the opponent's level, like how Goku got Ultra Instinct and reached/surpassed Jiren).
It just makes no sense and is bad writing.
To Whatever
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yeah, Zabuza said haku was holding back and attacking non vitals with his needles.
And Zabazu was just outright nerfed.
Naruto and Sasuke are probably the most coddled protagonists when it comes to fighting enemies.
They always find a way out or get a re-do or power up. Even when they were legitimately killed they came back even stronger.
My boy Deku, knows how to win and make it believable. Heck, even when he wins, he loses.
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Sharingan and Kurama used to have cool draw backs. Now they get free power with low effort or means of control.
Used to build suspense when Curse mark fucks Sasuke over, or Naruto ends up losing control.
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HowDidIGetPrem
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I agree with what you're saying since it's strictly true, but you're ignoring the many ways these ideas can be implemented without encountering the issues you predict.
The most obvious being that a legendary villain doesn't necessarily have to be weak, the hero we're following just has to catch up to their level before engaging them. It'd leave other characters in the dust, but, by the time Naruto took down Pain, he was already either the strongest within the Leaf or the next best thing. And I'm not saying that this should be the case for every match or major, major villains(Kaguya/Madara) since it goes against teamwork being a vital part of story. Akatsuki had a number of villains for this sort of idea to take place without making the heroes' progress look anymore outlandish than what we've already seen happen in the WA.
Skillsets aren't all that detrimental to balancing either. We've already seen a number of limitations that have made powerful skills manageable. Pain's 5 second cooldown, Naruto's SM & BSM time limit, Sasuke's maximum number of Chidori's in part 1, etc. By forcing more limits such as those, they can't consistently be relied on. When's Pain's cooldown is on, it can just as easily become a battle according to the raw attributes of speed, power, & reaction, intelligence, and of abilities that are much more manageable.
To Whatever
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If Naruto was more like Hunter X Hunter, fights and villains wouldn't just be stronger and more broken. It would be skill above all.
