Minato vs Might guy

[Jinrou]

Yeah I took that into account and even War arc Kakashi dragged Hachibi in and out of dimensions using a Time-space ninjutsu as well. The difference is that Kakashi had his chakra enhanced with kyubi chakra so Kakashi revealed to Shikaku that he can only drag something that big (a biju) only once with Kamui without kyubi chakra but on top of that the mangekyo consumes more chakra of an outside user than it does an Uchiha blood user.

With all these factors put into account and the many times he used kamui and raikiri without kyubi enhanced chakra makes both War arc Kakashi and Minato's chakra very even if not Kakshi slightly higher because his stamina (not chakra) helped him fight longer due to war feats against Zabuza without any medical help.

On top of that @Salamander pointed out that Kakashi made this comment about his and minato's chakra:

Spoiler

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I kinda disagree especially with that bold considering the manga scan regarding SM. And Salamander's point is faulty. That statement was to point out the fact that only Naruto had the reserves to use Multiple shadow clones to improve on Rasengan (Something he and the 4th can't do) not that he and the 4th have the same reserves. Benjermin's point of 100 > 25 and 75 doesn't mean 25 = 75 better illustrates it.

 

[salamander uchiha]

I kinda disagree especially with that bold considering the manga scan regarding SM. And Salamander's point is faulty. That statement was to point out the fact that only Naruto had the reserves to use Multiple shadow clones to improve on Rasengan (Something he and the 4th can't do) not that he and the 4th have the same reserves. Benjermin's point of 100 > 25 and 75 doesn't mean 25 = 75 better illustrates it.

This is incorrect since both Kakashi and Minato have already achieved the necessary nature transformation and rasengan. The only issue they had was combining the two(nature and transformation). What Naruto did was use a shadow clone to combine the two that is the context of that statement. Something both Kakashi and Minato would be able to do if possible and if they had the chakra reserves necessary which they clearly didn't. Kakashi made no reference to training it that way as he and Minato had no need to train that way before when developing it. That's why Benjamin's analysis is flawed.

no they aren't get your head out of your ass. That's a logical fallacy. @Underline. Raad what kakashi said, and stop misconscrewing.

This method works for naruto who has ample supply of chakra and doppelgangers

ample. enough or more than enough; plentiful. kakashi cant spam clones like naruto, in fact nobody can spam clones like naruto. Hence why the the method only works for him.

Nonsense both Minato and Kakashi already had the nature transformation and rasengan. They failed in combining the two as naruto was failing. By using a shadow clone Naruto was able to combine the two so yeah it was in refetence to using the jutsu and not training it. They're prodigies to begin with and didn't need to go through what naruto did to achieve their skills. The fact is neither Kakashi or Minato have the reserves to form shadow clones which are formed from the divison of chakra and then use them to add the chakra nature. Both have less chakra reserves than 1 Naruro shadow clone.

That's not what he said. His words>yours. and i quote: "Unless you already possess an enormous amount of chakra inside of ya... the natural energy would just take over ya right away." There no mention of balance. It wouldn't matter.

He made it clear before hand you have to draw Natural energy in balance and it automatically becomes Senjutsu. His fap means nothing since the facts are already clear that a shadow clone of Kakashi level in reserves can draw in natural energy without being overwhelmed so take your L.

Sure fam kakashi can use sage mode.

somebody with Kakashi level reserves can learn it and use it.

his body has direct correlation to his reserves. he had a 3.5 in staminae and couldn't achieve it. But according to you kakashi who has a 3 in stamina can do it easy.

stop making shit up he didn't have a body capable of handling SM there was never any correlation made between that and chakra. And yes the fact that a shadow clone (Kakashi level reserves with a 3 in stamina) csn learn it throws your fanfic out of the window.

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fam. Large objects require large amounts of chakra.

Guiding thunder is different from base ftg, and even if we assume its the same it was off panel he could have been in kcm mode when making the ftg barrier.

Well yeah if Minato's stamina is 100 and it takes 50 to teleport the Kyubi then that's a lot of chakra relative to his reserves. Whereas if Naruto has 400 stamina and teleports the Kyubi with 50 chakra cost that's a little for him. It's a lot of chakra for Minato who has little chakra or around Lakashi level reserves. I hope that clears it up for you.

The principle of guiding thunder is the same an object of mass is still transported from one location to another. I don't see why Minato would go KCM then suddenly exist it that makes no sense.

 

[Jinrou]

This is incorrect since both Kakashi and Minato have already achieved the necessary nature transformation and rasengan. The only issue they had was combining the two(nature and transformation). What Naruto did was use a shadow clone to combine the two that is the context of that statement. Something both Kakashi and Minato would be able to do if possible and if they had the chakra reserves necessary which they clearly didn't. Kakashi made no reference to training it that way as he and Minato had no need to train that way before when developing it. That's why Benjamin's analysis is nonsense.

"Although this method only works for Naruto" - What method? Using dopplegangers to imitate the process of looking left and right at the same time.

Why wouldn't it work for him and Minato? - Because neither have the same reserves as Naruto. Simple. Kakashi does not imply in any way that both he and Minato have the same reserves.

 

[salamander uchiha]

"Although this method only works for Naruto" - What method? Using dopplegangers to imitate the process of looking left and right at the same time.

Why wouldn't it work for him and Minato? - Because neither have the same reserves as Naruto. Simple. Kakashi does not imply in any way that both he and Minato have the same reserves.

It kind of does, remember Naruto after SM training had 2 shadow clones gathering nature energy while he went off to fight pain. Naruto had a 3rd of his original chakra when he fought pain. With 1/3 of his chakra he formed more shadow clones or further divison of chakra to use rasen Shuriken. So yes in light of this it means Kakashi and Minato have similar low chakra so Benjamin's analogy is flawed.

 

[Jinrou]

It kind of does, remember Naruto after SM training had 2 shadow clones gathering nature energy while he went off to fight pain. Naruto had a 3rd of his original chakra when he fought pain. With 1/3 of his chakra he formed more shadow clones or further divison of chakra to use rasen Shuriken. So yes in light of this it means Kakashi and Minato have similar low chakra so Benjamin's analogy is flawed.

The first part is irrelevant to Kakashi's statement and again;

"Although this method only works for Naruto" - What method? Using dopplegangers to imitate the process of looking left and right at the same time.

Why wouldn't it work for him and Minato? - Because neither have the same reserves as Naruto. Simple. Kakashi does not imply in any way that both he and Minato have the same reserves.

No amount of mental gymnastics is going to change that.

 

[salamander uchiha]

The first part is irrelevant to Kakashi's statement and again;

"Although this method only works for Naruto" - What method? Using dopplegangers to imitate the process of looking left and right at the same time.

Why wouldn't it work for him and Minato? - Because neither have the same reserves as Naruto. Simple. Kakashi does not imply in any way that both he and Minato have the same reserves.

No amount of mental gymnastics is going to change that.

Jinrou strikes out facts because he cant accept them, math(divison) the unbiased language handed you clarity or an L you decide. Just accept facts for what they are Kakashi's words confirm Minato and Kakashi have similar chakra reserves and the fact I presented a Naruto with a 3rd of his chakra still using shadow clones(further divison) to use rasen shuriken clears up the correct meaning.

You shouldn't let your dislike of me blind you to the canon facts.

 

[Jinrou]

Jinrou strikes out facts because he cant accept them, math(divison) the unbiased language handed you clarity or an L you decide. Just accept facts for what they are Kakashi's words confirm Minato and Kakashi have similar chakra reserves and the fact I presented a Naruto with a 3rd of his chakra still using shadow clones(further divison) to use rasen shuriken clears up the correct meaning.

You shouldn't let your dislike of me blind you to the canon facts.

Again, the struck out part remains irrelevant to the fact that Kakashi's statement references the fact neither he nor Minato could use clones to replicate the training Naruto does to advance rasengan because they do not have the reserves that he has. Not that both he and Minato have the same reserves..

Simple comprehension bro... Mental gymnastics unfortunately can't change this.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Again, the struck out part remains irrelevant to the fact that Kakashi's statement references the fact neither he nor Minato could use clones to replicate the training Naruto does to advance rasengan because they do not have the reserves that he has. Not that both he and Minato have the same reserves..

Channging tact I see the training was already done Naruto was developing a new jutsu. You'd have a point if Naruto didn't use a shadow clone to just add the element(look left and right) and Kakashi's words followed that statement. In otherwords it was in reference to using a shadow clone to add tge element to the jutsu not the training just accept the facts for what they are Minato and Kakashi have similar chakra reserves.

Simple comprehension bro... Mental gymnastics unfortunately can't change this.

Feigning ignorance and forwarding it as comprehension is denial on your part.

 

[Jinrou]

Channging tact I see the training was already done Naruto was developing a new jutsu. You'd have a point if Naruto didn't use a shadow clone to just add the element(look left and right) and Kakashi's words followed that statement. In otherwords it was in reference to using a shadow clone to add tge element to the jutsu not the training just accept the facts for what they are Minato and Kakashi have similar chakra reserves.

Feigning ignorance and forwarding it as comptehension is denial on your part.

He was advancing rasengan/developing a new jutsu by using shadow clones. A method which Kakashi references could only work for Naruto and not he or the 4th because they do not have the same reserves he does. Not that he (Kakashi) and the 4th have the same reserves.

Simple comprehension bro... Mental gymnastics unfortunately can't change this.

 

[salamander uchiha]

He was advancing rasengan/developing a new jutsu by using shadow clones. A method which Kakashi references could only work for Naruto and not he or the 4th because they do not have the same reserves he does. Not that he (Kakashi) and the 4th have the same reserves.

Spoiler

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Here Kakashi makes it clear Naruto used a shadow clone to use the rasengan. And using a 3rd to add the nature is the natural progression.

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Naruto confirms adding a clone to add the nature chakra to the rasengan. Then kakashi goes onto see he got a clue from him earlier. And comments it (using SC's) is only possible because Naruto has ample chakra. And neither he nor the 4th could do it. And then he prasies Naruto for thinking up the method.

You're talking nonsense Kakashi's statement has no bearing on the training or using Shadow clones to train. It's about having the chakra reserves necessary to form a shadow clone to add the change in nature. Both Kakashi and Minato already had tried to combine element with the rasengan and failed without shafow clones. And Kakashi's makes it clear he and Minato don't have the reserves necessary to use a clone to add the change in chakra nature. None of this scenario is anything to do with training you can stay in denial but those are the facts. What adds further to the both of them having similar chakra reserves is Naruto's SM scenario I layed out but your ignoring. I've presented the facts and don't really care about arguing for the sake of arguing.

Simple comprehension bro... Mental gymnastics unfortunately can't change this.

@bold: Evidently not.

I think we're done here, I gather your feigning ignorance or just trolling at this point.

 

[Jinrou]

Spoiler

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Here Kakashi makes it clear Naruto used a shadow clone to use the rasengan. And using a 3rd to add the nature is the natural progression.

You must be registered for see images

Naruto confirms adding a clone to add the nature chakra to the rasengan. Then kakashi goes onto see he got a clue from him earlier. And comments it (using SC's) is only possible because Naruto has ample chakra. And neither he nor the 4th could do it. And then he prasies Naruro for thinking up the method.

You're talking nonsense Kakashi's statement has no bearing on the training or using Shadow clones to train. It's about having the chakra reserves necessary to form a shadow clone to add the change in nature. Both Kakashi and Minato already had tried to combine element with the rasengan and failed. And Kakashi's makes it clear he and Minato dont have the reserves necessary to use a clone to add the change in chakra nature. None of this scenario is anything to do with training you can stay in denial bit those are the facts.



@bold: Evidently not.

I think we're done here, I gather your feigning ignorance or just trolling at this point.

What the hell is this? :lol You clearly don't know what you're talking about anymore. Anyway bold is exactly what i've been saying and translates to the fact that neither he nor Minato have the reserves to accomplish it like Naruto not that Kakashi and Minato have the same reserves. The rest is irrelevant and mental gymnastics as usual and like i've been saying;

Simple comprehension bro... Mental gymnastics unfortunately can't change this.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Interesting match.

My answer depends on do every gate increase user reflexes or not.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Interesting match.

My answer depends on do every gate increase user reflexes or not.

@bold: yes since you remove the limiters.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Spoiler

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Here Kakashi makes it clear Naruto used a shadow clone to use the rasengan. And using a 3rd to add the nature is the natural progression.

You must be registered for see images

Naruto confirms adding a clone to add the nature chakra to the rasengan. Then kakashi goes onto see he got a clue from him earlier. And comments it (using SC's) is only possible because Naruto has ample chakra. And neither he nor the 4th could do it. And then he prasies Naruto for thinking up the method.

You're talking nonsense Kakashi's statement has no bearing on the training or using Shadow clones to train. It's about having the chakra reserves necessary to form a shadow clone to add the change in nature. Both Kakashi and Minato already had tried to combine element with the rasengan and failed without shafow clones. And Kakashi's makes it clear he and Minato don't have the reserves necessary to use a clone to add the change in chakra nature. None of this scenario is anything to do with training you can stay in denial but those are the facts. What adds further to the both of them having similar chakra reserves is Naruto's SM scenario I layed out but your ignoring. I've presented the facts and don't really care about arguing for the sake of arguing.



@bold: Evidently not.

I think we're done here, I gather your feigning ignorance or just trolling at this point.

You do realize your whole point is proven wrong by 2 things

1.) kakashi is clearly talking about narutos way of training, as he even mentions naruto needing a clone just to make a rasengan, something he and the 4th(and jiraiya) don’t have to do, period. Minato died before he finished adding an element. Literally nowhere does it state narutos 2 clone method is NEEDED to add an element. Want more proof? See point 2.

2.) narutos lobbing frs’s cloneless as an adult, as well as one handed rasengans. Proving that narutos methods aren’t the only ways. Also proving an outside party is not needed to add an element to frs as you claim.

The ONLY reason naruto needed clones for those things was cause he was a clunky f ck who had shit chakra control(and cause it’s quicker), once the war arc stated and his cc was notably improved, he started forming rasengans on his own, and came into what we see as an adult

 

[salamander uchiha]

You do realize your whole point is proven wrong by 2 things

1.) kakashi is clearly talking about narutos way of training, as he even mentions naruto needing a clone just to make a rasengan, something he and the 4th(and jiraiya) don’t have to do, period. Minato died before he finished adding an element. Literally nowhere does it state narutos 2 clone method is NEEDED to add an element. Want more proof? See point 2.

2.) narutos lobbing frs’s cloneless as an adult, as well as one handed rasengans. Proving that narutos methods aren’t the only ways. Also proving an outside party is not needed to add an element to frs as you claim.

The ONLY reason naruto needed clones for those things was cause he was a clunky f ck who had shit chakra control(and cause it’s quicker), once the war arc stated and his cc was notably improved, he started forming rasengans on his own, and came into what we see as an adult

Don't act stupid mate you're not. The context is clear and it's nothing to do with training. This whole conversation is about adding an element via shadow clone just as Naruto used a clone to form the rasengan. Kakashi boasts about how Naruto discovered it via his clone clue. And then comments about neither he or Minato could do it because they don't have the chakra supply necessary for this method(clone and add nature).

You're being silly Naruto had good chakra control he makes and maintains 200 shadow clones for training.

What Naruto does an adult is irrelevant since this is the manga. Not that it matters he gained new prowess(abilities) as he became an adult and the RSM granted him comprehension of all things. So you've not disproven anything btw Naruto formed rasengan on his own even during the pain arc.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Don't act stupid mate you're not. The context is clear and it's nothing to do with training. This whole conversation is about adding an element via shadow clone just as Naruto used a clone to form the rasengan. Kakashi boasts about how Naruto discovered it via his clone clue. And then comments about neither he or Minato could do it because they don't have the chakra supply necessary for this method(clone and add nature).

You're being silly Naruto had good chakra control he makes and maintains 200 shadow clones for training.

What Naruto does an adult is irrelevant since this is the manga. Not that it matters he gained new prowess(abilities) as he became an adult and the RSM granted him comprehension of all things. So you've not disproven anything btw Naruto formed rasengan on his own even during the pain arc.

I know your trolling, what naruto does is relevant as an adult, the only reason your saying it’s irrelevant is because it destroys your dumbass point. It literally says on paper that neither kakashi, nor minato have the reserves to train like naruto, that’s it. Anything else is your opinion and your own addition, a personal guess at best, not fact.

Your claiming the only way to add an element to rasengan is with a clone, your also substantiating this claim, with the fact that naruto needed a clone for rasengan to begin with, trying to tie this all together as the only way to do things. It’s not, it’s NARUTOS only way to do things, and quicker than anyone else would be able to do because of his massive reserves. On top of that, the whole argument is gone when he starts being to use frs without clones. He got better at it. He no longer needed the clones to manipulate chakra and add the element. It’s not a necessity for everyone it was narutos way. The whole couple pages posted are talking about narutos unique way of training and learning things

The manga says neither minato nor kakashi would be able to achieve it the way naruto does end of story. Whether they would of or not is irrelevant, as that’s not what your claiming. spare me your assumptions and biased opinion unless you’ve got scans that literally say otherwise, and not your personal interpretation of what it says.

That whole part of the manga is talking about narutos training and what it affords him dude. Come on now

 

[salamander uchiha]

I know your trolling, what naruto does is relevant as an adult, the only reason your saying it’s irrelevant is because it destroys your dumbass point. It literally says on paper that neither kakashi, nor minato have the reserves to train like naruto, that’s it. Anything else is your opinion and your own addition, a personal guess at best, not fact.

No it doesn't destroy anything, the order of events is clear. Naruto forms a 3rd shadow clone and adds the element. Kakashi flashed back and says it makes sense Naruto used a clone to add the element since he used a clone to with the rasengan. He mentions it's a natural progression (using anot her clone to add the element). Naruto explains how he used a clone to add the nature and kakashi mentions from the clue he gave him earlier. Kakashi continues this method only works for Naruto because he has ample chakra and shadow clones. Now tell me exactly htf this method is referring to training when Naruto's showing a rasengan infused with wind nature via shadow clone assist?

And you're trying to use adult Naruto (post manga) to dismiss the canon manga of Kishimoto. Htf does a secondary work from a latter period disprove a canon work from the earlier period?

What Naruto does as an adult is post gaining comprehension of all things via RSM. This is the canon manga of Kishimoto which he wrote himself.

Your claiming the only way to add an element to rasengan is with a clone, your also substantiating this claim, with the fact that naruto needed a clone for rasengan to begin with, trying to tie this all together as the only way to do things. It’s not, it’s NARUTOS only way to do things, and quicker than anyone else would be able to do because of his massive reserves.

Of course it was the only way and that's why Kakashi said this method works for Naruto. And Naruto doesn't form jutsu quicker via shadow clones because of his reserves you're reaching quite a bit.

The manga says neither minato nor kakashi would be able to achieve it the way naruto does, end of story, spare me your assumptions and biased opinion unless you’ve got scans that literally say otherwise, and not your personal interpretation of what it says

Already addressed above there's no bias or assumptions it's comprehension of what happened. Again you're trying to use adult Naruto (post manga) to dismiss the canon manga of Kishimoto. Htf does a secondary work from a latter period disprove a canon work from the earlier period?

We're done here.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

No it doesn't destroy anything, the order of events is clear. Naruto forms a 3rd shadow clone and adds the element. Kakashi flashed back and says it makes sense Naruto used a clone to add the element since he used a clone to with the rasengan. He mentions it's a natural progression (using anot her clone to add the element). Naruto explains how he used a clone to add the nature and kakashi mentions from the clue he gave him earlier. Kakashi continues this method only works for Naruto because he has ample chakra and shadow clones. Now tell me exactly htf this method is referring to training when Naruto's showing a rasengan infused with wind nature via shadow clone assist?

Because that’s how naruto learned rasengan, that’s why it’s the natural progression for him to learn the next step that way(the clone method), seriously dude, it’s right there

And you're trying to use adult Naruto (post manga) to dismiss the canon manga of Kishimoto. Htf does a secondary work from a latter period disprove a canon work from the earlier period?

Yes yes I am, your pretty much saying no one gets better over time, good defense. But I’ll make sure to discredit any post ship feats you claim for anyone in any further discussions in the future, and you’ll be fine right? end of the story, no bullshit excuses and silly games? Didn’t think so

Of course it was the only way and that's why Kakashi said this method works for Naruto. And Naruto doesn't form jutsu quicker via shadow clones because of his reserves you're reaching quite a bit.

No, its a way that would work only for naruto, again, it says it, you can argue all you want lol. And I said he learns jutsus quicker with his clone method, this is true, whether you like it or not

Already addressed above there's no bias or assumptions it's comprehension of what happened. Again you're trying to use adult Naruto (post manga) to dismiss the canon manga of Kishimoto. Htf does a secondary work from a latter period disprove a canon work from the earlier period?

We're done here.

You’ve never made a non biased post since the first post I’ve read of yours. We where done before we even started, your statements are mere guesses, you pretty much just uverdore’d that panel, ignored what it actually says, and took your own “deeper meaning” of it

That being said, I’m not saying minato has huge massive reserves, or that he even has more than kakashi, cause we don’t know, and that statement by kakashi only tells us it’s less than naruto, or any amount that would be needed to use the clone method to train the way naruto does, or adding an element to rasengan the way naruto did. Those are the only things that statement is telling us

 

[Jinrou]

Because that’s how naruto learned rasengan, that’s why it’s the natural progression for him to learn the next step that way(the clone method), seriously dude, it’s right there



Yes yes I am, your pretty much saying no one gets better over time, good defense. But I’ll make sure to discredit any post ship feats you claim for anyone in any further discussions in the future, and you’ll be fine right? end of the story, no bullshit excuses and silly games? Didn’t think so





No, its a way that would work only for naruto, again, it says it, you can argue all you want lol. And I said he learns jutsus quicker with his clone method, this is true, whether you like it or not





You’ve never made a non biased post since the first post I’ve read of yours. We where done before we even started, your statements are mere guesses, you pretty much just uverdore’d that panel, ignored what it actually says, and took your own “deeper meaning” of it

That being said, I’m not saying minato has huge massive reserves, or that he even has more than kakashi, cause we don’t know, and that statement by kakashi only tells us it’s less than naruto, or any amount that would be needed to use the clone method to train the way naruto does, or adding an element to rasengan the way naruto did. Those are the only things that statement is telling us

Lmfaooo.. Uverdore'd that panel Great post man and awesome sig as well. What anime is that?

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Lmfaooo.. Uverdore'd that panel Great post man and awesome sig as well. What anime is that?

Thank you good sir, it’s seven deadly sins, I highly recommend. The whole first season is on Netflix and the second is out in the wild. It’s addicting. The dude on here “sir blades” I believe, has a seven deadly sins sig and Ava as well(the one with the pink haired dude swinging the sword really fast)