Minato vs Might guy
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salamander uchiha
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Guy Sensei has massive stamina 5 stars in speed and 7 gates of destruction. Minato has around kakashi level chakra or a little more which is a lot less than Naruto's. The only thing he can do is run away when Giy senesi unleashes the springtimw of youth.
InfiniteMugen
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Not really, minato managed to get in and out of 8 gate gai’s way at full speed(not that he could take a hit, he’d be done, but he can contend with gais speed) with 8th gate restricted and bm not, minato takes this, as one of the few high ranked people that has fewer of an arsenal than minato, gai is in a bad match up. Leave gai with gates and restrict bm, and literally all minato would be able to do is run away
salamander uchiha
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The thing is it said Minato not Edo Minato the one with beast mode. Minato's Kunai thrown by Kakashi never made it in time to save Guy from a TSB yet rock Lee with gates did and Guy's way faster than that. Also the Guy Minato got in between was moving slower than he did earlier on. Madara was able to throw TSBs at him whereas earlier on he couldn't keep ip with him. I wouldn't underrate Guy sensei.
InfiniteMugen
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Being edo or not, nor having bm or not really makes a difference when we’re talking about instant s/t’s. That being said you have a point with the bm/edo deal. We can argue for sm for a live minato but def not bm. So yea minato loses
BenjerminGaye
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Rikudou Tobi
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He ran out of chakra when he fought 13 y/o Tobi so Kushina
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for him during the ritual. That fight he had lasted like 10 minutes. He used FTG 8 times in total from start to finish, 4 of them being used during the fight against Tobi w/kyubi along with 1 summoning jutsu to cap it all off.That's War arc Kakashi level of stamina and chakra levels which is pretty average for someone who is Kage level.
salamander uchiha
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Nice fanfic Naruto has 4 times Kakashi's chakra reserves and this is what Kakashi says about Minato and himself.
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Also learning SM has nothing to do with chakra reserves since Naruto divided his chakra by 4(kakashi level) when he was training for it.
Minato isn't really a perfect sage having the pattern means nothing he can't even maintain it, even if he could it's something somebody with Kakashi level chakra can learn (naruto divides his chakra by 4).
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Kinda. [
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]. I would think the fact he was able to even attain perfect SM suggests he does have enormous amount of chakra as well. Iirc, his personal guard needed all 3/4 of them to perform FTG on Mei.To be fair, he did teleport two enormous masses of chakra in the Kyubi iirc and its Beast bomb at the beginning. No telling how much chakra he would have needed to accomplish that.
Rikudou Tobi
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Yeah I took that into account and even War arc Kakashi dragged Hachibi in and out of dimensions using a Time-space ninjutsu as well. The difference is that Kakashi had his chakra enhanced with kyubi chakra so Kakashi revealed to Shikaku that he can only drag something that big (a biju) only once with Kamui without kyubi chakra but on top of that the mangekyo consumes more chakra of an outside user than it does an Uchiha blood user.
With all these factors put into account and the many times he used kamui and raikiri without kyubi enhanced chakra makes both War arc Kakashi and Minato's chakra very even if not Kakshi slightly higher because his stamina (not chakra) helped him fight longer due to war feats against Zabuza without any medical help.
On top of that @Salamander pointed out that Kakashi made this comment about his and minato's chakra:
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Light up the Darkness
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BenjerminGaye
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Unless you have enormous chakra already inside of you you'll turn into a frog immediately, and unless youre implying he learned sm and mastered it as a a edo you need to get that goofy shit outta here.
That a flat out confirmation.
Kakashi only did that when his chakra levels was multiplied by 3. As i already said. Get that kakashi lvl bs outta here.
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BenjerminGaye
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And yall taking kakashi's thought out of context is wild. All kakashi is doing acknowledging that naruto can spam clones, where kakashi can only use 1 to 2 at a time. Him delegating his half chakra just to help him complete the tech is unfeasible, especially is a battle condition, whereas naruto can do it while still having 100 more to do whatever he wants. Nowhere there does he equate his chakra lvl to that of minato's.
BenjerminGaye
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Unless youre implying jman went through the same 4 clone training you should be smart enough to know he talking about natural energy in general. Especially since his statement and nothing to do with clones, and it was solely based off of natural energy itself.
Unless you already possess enormous chakra chakra natural energy will take over you immediately.
Nothing to do with clones.
salamander uchiha
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Why're you making excuses Minato clearly doesn't have large chakra reserves Kakashi pretty much confirmed it. He made it clear somebody with 4 times reserves had more chakra than both of them and they couldn't do the same as him because they don't possess such reserves. End of Minato has Kakashi level reserves.
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Here the toad sage confirms how it's taken in in balance with the other two which makes it into senjutsu chakra. You get senjutsu chakra just by taking it in in balance with the other 2.
The other way Fukusaku's words could be taken is as a sort of motivation for Naruto not necessarily literally as the reality is different.
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Rikudou Tobi
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Why don’t you read my post properly because I already mentioned the kyubi and Kakashi already said what he’s limited into warping without kurama’s chakra.
BenjerminGaye
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Kakashi never compared his chakra to that of minato. He only compared against naruto. Stop making shit up. Just because 100 is grater than 25 and 75 that doesn't make 25 and 75 equal.
And then he goes on to state that without a large amount of chakra form the get go even attempting to take in natural energy results in instant petrification.
Please point out where fusaku is taking about clones. Heck naruto isn't even using clones that that point, and he specifically bring up jman. Why you can purposefully misunderstand his words i won't espting since what youre sugesting means that jman used clones in order to learn sage mode. Which is Bullshit. The first person to even attempt such a method is naruto.
That's you grasping at straws. It would be motivation since he'd turn into a frog immediately and fugaku wouldn't even waste his time going further.
Oro coulnt get sage mode for the same exact reason. His reserves aren't good enough.
Without kyuubi chakra multipling his chakra by 3 at best he can only do 1 third of that feat. Warping 2/3 of a boss summon/tailed beast, and doing so
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. Minato warped the entirety of 100% kurama. Based of that alone Minato has at least 33% more chakra than kakashi and that's an extremely conservative lowball. Since it doesn't even include everything else he did that day, and it assumes gyuki and kurama are the same size.
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salamander uchiha
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When two things are put together in contrast to another they're equivalent against the other. Unless you're telling me Minato couldn't form one clone to add a chakra nature or Kakashi couldn't do the same? The reason they couldn't is because their chakra reserves are too low or the same so yeah Kakashi pretty much confirmed Minato's stamina was the same as his if it was higher it would've been possible for him. Just take your L or accept the fact for what it is with dignity instead of argue for the sake of arguing.
Means nothing the moment it's taken in in balance it becomes senjutsu. You'd only get overwhelmed if you took in too much with little chakra. There's nothing more to that statement with larger reserves it's easier for an individual since he has longer to absorb Natural energy.
You missed the point each clone is an independent body and it's actions are it's own. The chakra is divided between them by 4 or Kakashi level to be exact. In otherwords Kakashi level chakra is enough to absorb natural energy and gain senjutsu which is the point I was making. Jman not using the method to speed up his training is totally irrelevant to this fact. Fukusaku's statement about shadow clones being a plausible method to absorb natural energy means you don't need large chakra reserves to absorb natural energy.
No that was me being generous to Naruto since the facts make it clear that Kakashi level chakra can absorb Natural energy and use senjutsu.
Wrong Oro didn't have the body for it, reserves play no part in it and neither were they used to dismiss his ability to acquire SM.
Don't let Minato fanboying turn you into a bias fanboy, now unless you have something substantive to add I'm done here. I don't really enjoy repeating myself for the sake of repeating myself.
Major flaw it was never stated a lot of chakra was required for warping Edo Minato warped a Jyubi TBB which shits on Kurama's size. And he had a chakra limit lower than his original self, it's only infinite in that you recover it. And we know he doesn't have much chakra as Kakashi already confirmed.
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BenjerminGaye
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no they aren't get your head out of your ass. That's a logical fallacy. @Underline. Raad what kakashi said, and stop misconscrewing.
This method works for naruto who has ample supply of chakra and doppelgangers
ample. enough or more than enough; plentiful. kakashi cant spam clones like naruto, in fact nobody can spam clones like naruto. Hence why the the method only works for him.
That's not what he said. His words>yours. and i quote: "Unless you already possess an enormous amount of chakra inside of ya... the natural energy would just take over ya right away." There no mention of balance. It wouldn't matter.
Sure fam kakashi can use sage mode.
his body has direct correlation to his reserves. he had a 3.5 in staminae and couldn't achieve it. But according to you kakashi who has a 3 in stamina can do it easy.
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fam. Large objects require large amounts of chakra.Guiding thunder is different from base ftg, and even if we assume its the same it was off panel he could have been in kcm mode when making the ftg barrier.