Madara's Ass Full of Asspulls

jamarcusp17

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Re-watching the war arc, it seems that Madara has a lot of asspulls and plotholes. Madara shouldn't have been that strong. First of all, how were both of Nagato's eyes initially Madara's eyes? If I'm not mistaking, Madara used Izanagi in the battle against Hashirama, which meant that one of his eyes should have gone blind. So how did it manifest into the Rinnegan? And at what point did he give his eyes to Nagato? Was it before he met Obito? Because when he met Obito, Madara only had one eye, which was a Rinnegan. But he had to have given his eyes to Nagato before the Third Great War (when he met Obito), because I believe the Second Great War is the war the Sannin fought in and when Jiraiya met Nagato, Konan, and Yahiko. If that's the case, where does Madara keep getting new Rinnegans, and why didn't he have two when he met Obito?

In the war, Madara's power is just full of asspulls. There is no reason he should have been that strong. I can understand the fact that he was an Indra incarnate mixed with Ashura DNA at the time, but there are feats in the war that he shouldn't have been able to pull off. For example, how could he keep up with top ninja with no eyes? He was not a sensory ninja--no dojutsu user need to be a sensory ninja because all canon dojutsu are capable of seeing and distinguishing chakra. So how did he keep up with Tobirama's Flying Raijin jutsu, twice? How was he able to keep up with Sasuke's Sharingan-kenjutsu?

He shouldn't have been able to use his Sharingan jutsu, such as Limbo and Susano'o. And it can't be said that once the user has gained the ability, they can use it with or without the dojutsu. Because if that was the case, Obito should have been able to use long-range Kamui, and Kakashi should've been able to use short-range Kamui. Speaking of Kamui, how was Madara able to use Kamui while being the 10-Tailed Jinchuriki? Obito explicitly stated that he couldn't use Kamui to pass through attacks because he was the 10-Tailed Jinchuriki. But Madara, within a second of having Obito's Sharingan, could master the Kamui jutsu and bypass the fact that it can't be used as a 10-Tailed Jinchuriki?

And when he became human, he was absolutely invincible and stronger than when he was reanimated. Now tell me how that makes since. Hashirama's healing abilities can't be brought into this, because even Hashirama had to shield himself from various attacks. But Madara had absolute faith that he couldn't die because of Hashirama's healing DNA. He went head-to-head with the 9 tailed beasts and essentially came out unscathed. Speaking of his battle with the 9 tailed beasts, how in the hell could a human go up against all 9 of them and come out on top?

None of it makes sense. Can anyone help clear any of this up?
 

salamander uchiha

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You're inability to perceive = ass pulls?

The only way any of those would be ass pulls is if there wasn't an established principle in existence beforehand. My advice read the manga again.
 
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jamarcusp17

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You're inability to perceive = ass pulls?

The only way any of those would be ass pulls is if there wasn't an established principle in existence beforehand. My advice read the manga again.

If you can "perceive" them, then relay your "perceptions" to me.
 

Serpent

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It's important to remember that Madara was never as strong as shown in the war when he was alive. Kabuto even said he made special alterations to Madara to bring him back beyond his prime. It's as simple as that. Madara didn't awaken the Rinnegan until his old age, when he wasn't able to move around freely. He also acquired Hashirama's DNA around the same time. Those two aspects, plus the fact that he had Unlimited chakra and could only be defeated by sealing him made him a powerhouse.

Madara Prime:
-Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan
-Nine Tails Summoning

Madara Edo:
-Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan
-Rinnigan
-Wood Release
-Sage Mode
-Gedo Statue Summoning
-Unlimited Chakra

Also, to answer your question on how could he evade flying raijin it was because he was in Sage Mode during that. It allowed him to sense the world around him.
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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Speaking of Kamui, how was Madara able to use Kamui while being the 10-Tailed Jinchuriki? Obito explicitly stated that he couldn't use Kamui to pass through attacks because he was the 10-Tailed Jinchuriki. But Madara, within a second of having Obito's Sharingan, could master the Kamui jutsu and bypass the fact that it can't be used as a 10-Tailed Jinchuriki?

I think this is the only real asspull in your entire wall. It was implied that being an edo limits a person's strength to some extent since Hashirama said Madara seemed to be gaining his "original" power/strength/whatever when he was revived. Madara was unquestionably already stronger than Tobirama, Sasuke & co, so him manhandling them once he had Hashirama's Sage Mode and his original strength isn't all that ridiculous.
 

Uverdore9

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He was brought back stronger though yeah he had his fair share of asspulls.
 

Animegoin

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I hope some of that flawed information shown above cleared things up for you.
 

To Whatever

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Boring ass topic.

Use the search feature. None of his power ups were asspulls, they were just stolen from others.

If he was an asspull character then he’d have some sort of plot armor.

And he doesn’t seeing how he got defeated by a blob and was defeated in the warring period.
 
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salamander uchiha

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I think this is the only real asspull in your entire wall. It was implied that being an edo limits a person's strength to some extent since Hashirama said Madara seemed to be gaining his "original" power/strength/whatever when he was revived. Madara was unquestionably already stronger than Tobirama, Sasuke & co, so him manhandling them once he had Hashirama's Sage Mode and his original strength isn't all that ridiculous.

Kamui wasn't really an ass pull either since Obito's roght eye and lwft eye work on different mechanics. Thw right eye actually warps Obito and the Jyubi which was made impossible. The left eye opens a portal to pass through or a tear in space to the Kamui world.
 

HowDidIGetPrem

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Kamui wasn't really an ass pull either since Obito's roght eye and lwft eye work on different mechanics. Thw right eye actually warps Obito and the Jyubi which was made impossible. The left eye opens a portal to pass through or a tear in space to the Kamui world.

That makes more sense but it's still an asspull. In both cases, Madara and Obito would be warping the Juubi within themselves as an end result, and it's not like Obito had to warp the giant-ass Juubi. Obito teleporting himself to kamui dimension is no different from how Madara entered the portal as the only thing separating the two is range & maybe shape manipulation.
 

salamander uchiha

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That makes more sense but it's still an asspull. In both cases, Madara and Obito would be warping the Juubi within themselves as an end result, and it's not like Obito had to warp the giant-ass Juubi. Obito teleporting himself to kamui dimension is no different from how Madara entered the portal as the only thing separating the two is range & maybe shape manipulation.

It's not the same as obito has to warp himself or send parts of himself and the compressed chakra of the Jyubi contained within himself to Kamui space. Madara only has to open a hole in front of him and enter the Kamui space through it. Madara isn't warping anything with Snipe Kamui whereas Obito is. The location might be the same but the mwchanics are totally different.

There's nothing ass pull about Madara's use of it, the only argument you could make is obito was nerfed but there's no real way to prove that.
 
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HowDidIGetPrem

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It's not the same as obito has to warp himself or send parts of himself and the compressed chakra of the Jyubi contained within himself to Kamui space. Madara only has to open a hole in front of him and enter the Kamui space through it. Madara isn't warping anything with Snipe Kamui whereas Obito is. The location might be the same but the mwchanics are totally different.

There's nothing ass pull about Madara's use of it, the only argument you could make is obito was nerfed but there's no real way to prove that.

So what you're saying is Juubi Obito could still warp things that aren't him like how he summoned ninja tools throughout the war?
 

salamander uchiha

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So what you're saying is Juubi Obito could still warp things that aren't him like how he summoned ninja tools throughout the war?

Obito didn't summon them either, he released them from the Kamui space by creating a Kamui hole in a localised space within himself. The pressure created in the space releases the tools from there with force. He can suck things into himself as well via the same mechanism.
 
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