Pain and Tobi VS Hashirama..........Who wins ?

Rikudou Tobi · Mar 31, 2018

Mellanoma said:
Lmao the wank is real when someone claims asura lasers are equal to jinton(a molecular level destroyer of objects)

Mokuton not strong enough to break obito/nagato arsenal however it was strong enough to pulverize perfect susanoo and kurama? Interesting debate so far.

Jinton is particle style and do you even know what what particles are even made of? And did you just say that fucking lasers do not work on a molecular level?
Mellanoma you better stfu right now because you don't want me to start with you that's for sure.

Tobi/Obito's arsenal is Kamui which Wood style is utterly useless against and is the key into beating Hashirama. So close your mouth before saying anything else even more stupid than the last.

Mellanoma · Apr 1, 2018

^^ Ignorance is often accompanied by anger / insults. There really is no point in debating this as the majority of the logical members on this board already know who the victor is. You can continue to argue for the sake of arguing (As you always do) but the fact remains who the real victor is.

Rikudou Tobi · Apr 1, 2018

^^shows how dense you are considering the fact that I didn’t insult you and whatever you were snickering about when it comes to particles and lasers were completely wrong in the first place.
You don’t know anything about particle beams and how they emit lasers, and yet you over here are talking like you have some type of validity. The laughable part is that you consider the Hashirama fanboy to be The “logical” members in a Hashirama fight.

Logical people would not be dumb enough to disassociate lasers from particle beams
Logical people would know that a pocket dimensional travel is stronger than a piece of wood

Don’t preach about logic when you’re out here saying something completely stupid you hypocrite.

Red Slayer · Apr 1, 2018

Hashi mid diff.

Ghost Of The Uchiha · Apr 1, 2018

Base hashirama is enough to win this, flower tree world and the wood golem are all he needs really.

Uverdore9 · Apr 2, 2018

Rikudou Tobi said:
Hashirama stands on top of the wood golem’s head when performing 1,000 armed kan’on.
He can’t use wood dragon or golem with artifacts of a Buddha at the same time otherwise he would get caught in the line of fire.
On top of that, kamui is too fast for Hashirama. It’s a touch and go situation. Unless Hashirama has ftg, he is not escaping:

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More like Edo Madara was nerfed, because he didn’t use his meteor jutsu on Hashirama. Anyways it does not need for you to touch the pressure points just to bind your movements, the pressure points is to control your movements.
If necessary Tobi’s Six path weapons would will create chains to suppress his chakra when needed.
It does that upon contact so there will be no tree sprouting:

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Kamui cannot attack if there is no space to attack.Hashirama surrounded by Golem Dragon cannot be touched by phasing through.That is like saying a phaseman can penetrate through an encased box of glass;in which the center,is where I am located,to save me.That is literally impossible.The chains of Gedo are countered by Senjutsu SS which is extremely far powerful than the one broken in canon.Plus if Gedo Mazo,both Obito and Nagato's ones are restrained,there would not be a threat in the first place.

What you’re saying doesn’t make sense. I just showed you Nagato seeing Jiraiya’s Sage transformation through the dark pipe line so I’m not sure why you’re arguing with what Nagato did in the manga. What you’re saying isn’t even stated in the manga unless you want to prove me wrong?
Zabuza’s chakra mist is completely covered in chakra while bringer of darkness is not. The only reason why Kakashi could not see through it is because the mist covers everywhere in chakra so you can’t find where the user is underneath all that chakra while
Bringer of darkness on the other hand is just darkness, so the rinnegan user can still see the caster’s chakra inside of that darkness making the jutsu useless in the first place.

Orochimaru never said or implied that and it was a genjutsu that only worked in a confined space not outside. To make matters worse, sharingan the ocular power that is supreme in genjutsus can break all illusions and nagato’s rinnegan can see chakra in the dark whether you like it or not because he did Jiraiya’s.
On top of everything too. Hiruzen broke that genjutsu by attacking the user and he was able to catch Hashirama in the dark without any ocular powers but with just his scent alone. A genjutsu that’s suppose to work on your 5 senses failed to work on Hiruzen’s sense of smell. That genjutsu is so useless that animal path would just send the dog at him if he doesn’t want to really on his ocular power to see.

Seeing through solid substances is not equal to seeing through chakra.Sharingan has only shown the ability to see the chakra in form of a wide colour spectrum.

Rinnegan has done the same thing.See through solidity and not through chakra.What has pain seeing jiraiya in the dark have anything to do with seeing through chakra?The hidden mist is made of chakra,the Genjutsu is castor's chakra disrupting your chakra network.It is not necessary that Genjutsu affect your 5 senses at the same time,it is something which WORKS on all of your 5 senses.Bringer Of Darkness works on sight alone+potent enough to trap someone who mastered 1000 illusions.Hiruzen has 5 points in Genjutsu.+Hashirama was at 60% power when he fought Hiruzen with no Senjutsu;which further encrypts the Genjutsu exponentially.Sharingan cannot see through all Illusions.It's masters can.Only Itachi has mastered it that perfectly.Which is why Itachi reflected Kurenai's Genjutsu,when latter thought it was effective against Sharingan users.The Dog cannot attack effectively whem Hashirama is on top of SS.

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Yes. That is exactly the case. The village is more sturdier than a Susano’o too. The user cannot make his or her chakra as hard as they need to be otherwise they would look exactly like a living biju. The bijus are the senses chakra out there, not wood style and surely not Susano’o either.
Even Kaguya used chakra air pressure to break Perfect Susano’o, if Kaguya did that to her ice world then all it would do is create a crater on the ground.

The priority/target of attack is the measurement of damage.Not resulting debris since that would mess up the entire power scaling in Naruto.

That is how durability is measured and that's your problem. Hype. Hype has nothing to do with feats because if hype had anything to do with actual feats,
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.
Another thing too, cracking through rocks/boulder in the mountains is not how you measure durability just attack power really because roots growing out of boulder and rocks happen here in real life too it's nothing impressive.

Hashirama was considered that powerful in the feudal ages, that hype means nothing to me. As for feats like I posted above a mountain range blast destroyed most of Hashirama's wood style. Artifacts of a laughing Buddha was getting smashed into pieces upon contact and the ripped pieces of a Susano'o sword alone cutting through Hashirama's wood style arms before the biju bomb detonated

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Hashirama's Jutsus were on a whole another scale compared to Gokages' abilities,all of them which easily crush buildings and villages.For example,A crushed the floor to get to Sasuke,underground.Comparitively, Hashirama Mokuton wrecks traditional houses.Trees uprooting in real life takes a long duration,which is not same as Hashirama sprouting it in less than seconds and that in massive amounts in such a lengthy range.

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@Bold part is not true and like I said before the only thing that can absorb is wood dragon besides that no other wood style has the ability to absorb chakra within Hashirama/Madara's arsenal. Wood dragon and God tree are the only ones. Saying that all wood styles can absorb is like saying all Rasen shurikens can cut you in a molecular level (which is not true only wind style can).

Hashirama's face contains all facets of his power.Kabuto claimed he made Madara stronger than his prime which could have included his wood absorption ability after it merged with Rinnegan absorption.Rinnegan cannot absorb natural substances like tree lifeforce not even Preta can;which is a far powerful sealing absorption technique.

As for the wood style coming underground, I was already aware of that because in part one this was already stated in the Hiruzen vs. Senju bros fight. I made a thread on this a while back that Hashirama uses his chakra as a life source to manipulate his wood style which further proves my point that wood style isn't more durable than any ordinary common wood because that's what it is.

Hashirama cannot make it harder.There is a set hardness which is levels above real trees though.

No he cannot, he's never shown the feats to harden wood, he's just shown feats to produce more when others are broken. You just said that Hashirama manipulates ordinary wood with his chakra like a few quotes ago.
Particle beams and lasers are essentially the same thing that are involved with the electromagnetic spectrum.
You know those little laser beams Ironman shoots out of his robot? Those are particle beams.

By that logic Madara and Sasuke beams can atomize.Dust Release is called just that because of it's unique property of molecularization.Real life do not matter here.Asura by feats only destroys;no disintegration.

Nope, he doesn't need to materialize to attack with Black rods:

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Making Hashirama's wood style useless. Kamui>Wood style

He materialized in that image.Obito can select which parts to materialize/not.

phantom dragon cannot be touched by physical things like I said before, so emergency forest bloom is useless and Deity gates get crushed by Gedo mazou just like how the gedo mazou crushed that mountain.
You should know that the Deity gates can be broken by the ten tails jinchuuriki:

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The only reason why it was restraint was because the barrier prevented it to move and the Ten tails couldn't control its power:

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Obito broke Deity Gods Gates because he was a Jinchuuriki.Bijuu are stronger when with Jinchuuriki.DB states this+Manga confirms this.Hashirama is not fighting Juubito here.Obito and Nagato cannot break the Gates which can adjust to thier body sizes and fall on them/fall on Gedo Mazo shutting it's will.Nor can he escape,due to the constricting trees and flower world blocking thier vision and mobility sporadically.Thier only choice is to fly in Nagato's bird which still would not cut the chase because The Deity Gates would fall on top of thier heads and Gedo Mazou must be stuck on Pain release the dragons which will not be possible due to the constricted space up in the bird.Gedo would not release the dragons in time+Hashirama can simply shunshin away like Hanzo.The Wood creations could attack with a mental command from Hashirama from far away.Shinra Tensei could burst the Mokuton once then there is* the five second limit which could be capitalized on with another Tree Emergence which could absolutely encase the duo with no space in between because more trees can be grown from the trunk of one tree alone.+The dragons have only been said to absorb chakra in an instant,not Senjutsu Chakra.Senjutsu chakra is a advanced form of chakra which do not share similarities to the primitive version.There is no feat so it is not absorbing said chakra yet which means Hashirama is immune to it.

Rikudou Tobi · Apr 3, 2018

Uverdore9 said:
Kamui cannot attack if there is no space to attack.Hashirama surrounded by Golem Dragon cannot be touched by phasing through.That is like saying a phaseman can penetrate through an encased box of glass;in which the center,is where I am located,to save me.That is literally impossible.The chains of Gedo are countered by Senjutsu SS which is extremely far powerful than the one broken in canon.Plus if Gedo Mazo,both Obito and Nagato's ones are restrained,there would not be a threat in the first place.

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, it's only the wood golem that doesn't have the room to do anything because it will get caught by the artifacts. Regardless of what is around Hashirama, Tobi can phase through all his attacks and strike Hashirama at the same time like he did to jinchuuriki Madara. Jinchuuriki Madara>Hashirama btw the way and his only option was to run back.
Hashirama cannot restrain Gedo mazo and 1,000 armed kanon can't do anything to Outer path chakra chains because they restrain and control chakra. Only the rods can be broken but 1,00 armed kanon is useless considering that kamui phases through it and Nagato's village size shinra tensei would blow that statue into smithereens.

Seeing through solid substances is not equal to seeing through chakra.Sharingan has only shown the ability to see the chakra in form of a wide colour spectrum.

They can see chakra in the dark as well, the Rinnegan can also see chakra in the dark making that jutsu completely useless once again.

Rinnegan has done the same thing.See through solidity and not through chakra.What has pain seeing jiraiya in the dark have anything to do with seeing through chakra?The hidden mist is made of chakra,the Genjutsu is castor's chakra disrupting your chakra network.It is not necessary that Genjutsu affect your 5 senses at the same time,it is something which WORKS on all of your 5 senses.Bringer Of Darkness works on sight alone+potent enough to trap someone who mastered 1000 illusions.Hiruzen has 5 points in Genjutsu.+Hashirama was at 60% power when he fought Hiruzen with no Senjutsu;which further encrypts the Genjutsu exponentially.Sharingan cannot see through all Illusions.It's masters can.Only Itachi has mastered it that perfectly.Which is why Itachi reflected Kurenai's Genjutsu,when latter thought it was effective against Sharingan users.The Dog cannot attack effectively whem Hashirama is on top of SS.

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1. Rinnegan seeing through the dark proves that bringer of darkness is useless because all it does is use darkness in a confined space to block the line of sight.
2. Hidden mist uses chakra as fog bringer of darkness does not.
3. Bringer of Darkness does not control all 5 of your senses because Hiruzen was able still able to use his sense of smell:

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Making bringer of darkness a useless genjutsu
4. Hiruzen's hype of being the master of a 1,000 illusions have nothing to do with his sense of smell, he broke the genjutsu with simple means.
5. The biggest mistake you made of all is by saying the sharingan cannot break out of all genjutsus. That is completely wrong, the sharingan has dominion over all genjutsus and it can break out of ALL genjutsus that are non ocular. Hashirama's is useless before a sharingan because they can see through ANY illusions or spells. This is part 1 knowledge

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6. The percentage of edo hashirama's powers at the time is fanfic too. Nobody knows the level that he was in all we know is that he was not in the level needed to enter Sage Mode.
7. Bringer of Darkness only works when the space is confined inside of Emergency forest, once outside the genjutsu is useless.

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The priority/target of attack is the measurement of damage.Not resulting debris since that would mess up the entire power scaling in Naruto.

The destroyed platform is the result of the attack power otherwise 5 mountain peak slicing feat would be useless according to your logic.

Hashirama's Jutsus were on a whole another scale compared to Gokages' abilities,all of them which easily crush buildings and villages.For example,A crushed the floor to get to Sasuke,underground.Comparitively, Hashirama Mokuton wrecks traditional houses.Trees uprooting in real life takes a long duration,which is not same as Hashirama sprouting it in less than seconds and that in massive amounts in such a lengthy range.

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Once again, that is hype not feats. I don't see any village being busted or buildings being busted with ease. I don't know if you just decided to join the Hashirama fanclub secession but hype means absolutely to me.
I can bring up a a scan of Tobi being called an invincible immortal that is the end of all worlds or a page of Pain being called a god that can destroy or save the world and being unbeatable never losing is a way better hype than Hashirama's. Hype means nothing to me in the Narutoverse. I need feats.

Hashirama's face contains all facets of his power.Kabuto claimed he made Madara stronger than his prime which could have included his wood absorption ability after it merged with Rinnegan absorption.Rinnegan cannot absorb natural substances like tree lifeforce not even Preta can;which is a far powerful sealing absorption technique.

@Bold, I don't really care.

The rest is fanfic. Wood dragon and good tree are the only constuctions that can absorb besides that wood style cannot absorb, and wood style cannot combine powers with the fake rinnegan kabuto created. Six path powers stand on another level than wood style.

Hashirama cannot make it harder.There is a set hardness which is levels above real trees though.

Well it's not. Even Odama Rasengan barrage destroyed all of Emergency Forest.

By that logic Madara and Sasuke beams can atomize.Dust Release is called just that because of it's unique property of molecularization.Real life do not matter here.Asura by feats only destroys;no disintegration.

So by your logic Onohki's particle style>>>Madara's Lasers?
You need to realize that lasers do work on a molecular level and they disintegrate, in fact particle beams is a type of laser just so you know. All you need to do is change its frequency to be concussive like Darui's laser circuit or complete disintegrate like Madara's light fang and Onohki's particle style. It's the chakra that determines the frequency of heat.
Particles are just super intense heat that burn immediately on contact just so you know.

He materialized in that image.Obito can select which parts to materialize/not.

No only his attack materialize, Madara on the other hand went right passed him:

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If Obito can attack Jinchuuriki Madara while remaining intangible then Hashirama who is far more inferior than JInchuuriki Madara will suffer the same fate.

Obito broke Deity Gods Gates because he was a Jinchuuriki.Bijuu are stronger when with Jinchuuriki.DB states this+Manga confirms this.Hashirama is not fighting Juubito here.Obito and Nagato cannot break the Gates which can adjust to thier body sizes and fall on them/fall on Gedo Mazo shutting it's will.Nor can he escape,due to the constricting trees and flower world blocking thier vision and mobility sporadically.Thier only choice is to fly in Nagato's bird which still would not cut the chase because The Deity Gates would fall on top of thier heads and Gedo Mazou must be stuck on Pain release the dragons which will not be possible due to the constricted space up in the bird.Gedo would not release the dragons in time+Hashirama can simply shunshin away like Hanzo.The Wood creations could attack with a mental command from Hashirama from far away.Shinra Tensei could burst the Mokuton once then there is* the five second limit which could be capitalized on with another Tree Emergence which could absolutely encase the duo with no space in between because more trees can be grown from the trunk of one tree alone.+The dragons have only been said to absorb chakra in an instant,not Senjutsu Chakra.Senjutsu chakra is a advanced form of chakra which do not share similarities to the primitive version.There is no feat so it is not absorbing said chakra yet which means Hashirama is immune to it.

@Bold Hashirama being immune is Hashirama-fan fanfic especially when Biju Sage Mode Naruto still got absorbed by the Gedo statue and bijus like Kurama can manipulate Natural energy as well so he still gets absorbed easy one-shot.

As for Gracious deity gates those things do not work on living people. Madara

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and even

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so of course Tobi and Pain have no business destroying those gates. Nagato's lasers have more exposive power than explosive tags to he can break it with those and Tobi used Gedo mazou lightning chakra to burst a mountain jutsu so of course Gedo mazo is breaking it.

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Tobi himself have kamui so he'll simply phase through the attack by ending his body into kamui dimensions. Everyone her one this base even Hashirama fans know that Kamui>>Wood style except for you and Mellanoma so there's nothing much I can tell you since for some reason you believe that wood style is the strongest jutsu that ever existed.

Uverdore9 · Apr 4, 2018

Rikudou Tobi said:
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, it's only the wood golem that doesn't have the room to do anything because it will get caught by the artifacts. Regardless of what is around Hashirama, Tobi can phase through all his attacks and strike Hashirama at the same time like he did to jinchuuriki Madara. Jinchuuriki Madara>Hashirama btw the way and his only option was to run back.
Hashirama cannot restrain Gedo mazo and 1,000 armed kanon can't do anything to Outer path chakra chains because they restrain and control chakra. Only the rods can be broken but 1,00 armed kanon is useless considering that kamui phases through it and Nagato's village size shinra tensei would blow that statue into smithereens.

When Buddha struck Kyuubi SusanoO, Hashirama/Golem was not caught in the cross-fire.Obito cannot penetrate the golem which is wrapping Hashirama along with Dragon.If he phases through it, he needs space to materialize which he won't get inside that constricted area tightly clapsed by former constructs.

Buddha is not chakra.It is lifeforce.Gedo chains don't suppress said substance.

Shinra tensei can't break it because it is just a force.The best it can do is push it.

Obito cannot attack while phasing, Kakashi collaborated his Kamui with Obito for that effect.This is one eyed obito.

Deity gates only need to restrain it for a while cause then Hashirama uses tree emergence and ties up thier legs so they cannot initiate Dragons+Chains.

As I said before, Hashirama indeed can sprout trees from his body for extra protection.

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They can see chakra in the dark as well, the Rinnegan can also see* chakra in the dark making that jutsu completely useless once again.

1. Rinnegan seeing through the dark proves that bringer of darkness is useless because all it does is use darkness in a confined space to block the line of sight.
2. Hidden mist uses chakra as fog bringer of darkness does not.
3. Bringer of Darkness does not control all 5 of your senses because Hiruzen was able still able to use his sense of smell:

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Making bringer of darkness a useless genjutsu
4. Hiruzen's hype of being the master of a 1,000 illusions have nothing to do with his sense of smell, he broke the genjutsu with simple means.
5. The biggest mistake you made of all is by saying the sharingan cannot break out of all genjutsus. That is completely wrong, the sharingan has dominion over all genjutsus and it can break out of ALL genjutsus that are non ocular. Hashirama's is useless before a sharingan because they can see through ANY illusions or spells. This is part 1 knowledge

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6. The percentage of edo hashirama's powers at the time is fanfic too. Nobody knows the level that he was in all we know is that he was not in the level needed to enter Sage Mode.
7. Bringer of Darkness only works when the space is confined inside of Emergency forest, once outside the genjutsu is useless.

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Are you saying bringer of Darkness is not chakra?Genjutsu is chakra passed onto the opponent body.That chakra shows you illusions which is the darkness, it does not really 'exist'.Its a genjutsu after all.It completely disrupts eye sight and in this case thier is no use in relying on smell of Cerberus when Hashirama is far above thier footing.

It was never stated it isn't effective in a open space.

Sharingan cannot see through all non-ocular genjutsu.Only its masters can.

Sasuke states- 'It's said that certain masters have 'mastered' a form of ocular ninjutsu which give them the ability to reflect the ninjutsu, genjutsu and taijutsu.

The key word=mastered.Not anyone who has 'sharingan' can see through and reflect.Sharingan is a tool used to master such a imperrate jutsu.Otherwise Kurenai would not have used that genjutsu on Kakashi.We have never seen any sharingan user reflecting genjutsu other than Itachi, only ninjutsu and taijutsu mimicking and that was indra avatar and the most skilled guy in sharingan usage:Kakashi Hatake.Tobi has not mastered it in the levels of Itachi which means he cannot break the genjutsu at full power.Seeing through has nothing to do with breaking genjutsu.Even if you know you are in one, without actually having the power to break it, you cannot escape it.Naruto knew he was in a genjutsu yet he could not break it from a 30 percent Itachi.

Anyways whatever percentage that may be its meaningless to look at it since Hashirama's prime power dominated Madara and Kyuubi.

The destroyed platform is the result of the attack power otherwise 5 mountain peak slicing feat would be useless according to your logic.

Once again, that is hype not feats. I don't see any village being busted or buildings being busted with ease. I don't know if you just decided to join the Hashirama fanclub secession but hype means absolutely to me.
I can bring up a a scan of Tobi being called an invincible immortal that is the end of all worlds or a page of Pain being called a god that can destroy or save the world and being unbeatable never losing is a way better hype than Hashirama's. Hype means nothing to me in the Narutoverse. I need feats.

5 mountain cutting implied the fact Madaras SusanoO can smash everything in the universe and not attack power necessarily.Shinra Tensei has the biggest crater creation in Canon Manga so are you saying the destructive force would wreck Kaguya?

Well Itachi was talking about someone else, clearly not tobi when he admittedly can't take on the Gokage by himself and he is nowhere near immortal.

Pain was only called invincible by Tobi who was fabricating his mind and konan who was talking from experience.

@Bold, I don't really care.

The rest is fanfic. Wood dragon and good tree are the only constuctions that can absorb besides that wood style cannot absorb, and wood style cannot combine powers with the fake rinnegan kabuto created. Six path powers stand on another level than wood style.

Well it's not. Even Odama Rasengan barrage destroyed all of Emergency Forest.

So by your logic Onohki's particle style>>>Madara's Lasers?
You need to realize that lasers do work on a molecular level and they disintegrate, in fact particle beams is a type of laser just so you know. All you need to do is change its frequency to be concussive like Darui's laser circuit or complete disintegrate like Madara's light fang and Onohki's particle style. It's the chakra that determines the frequency of heat.
Particles are just super intense heat that burn immediately on contact just so you know.

Shinjū absorbed shinobi lifeforce after entangling with Tree Emergence secret technique.Madara combined this with absorption which is why Kabuto said 'The power of the Sage of Six Paths' which is the power of Hashirama's Mokuton+Rinnegan, former which Hashirama could use when he was the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.Hashirama cells enhance physical energy which is another word for life energy which Danzo exploited to increase his said energy.It is a given Madara did what I said he did.

Rasengan affects the interior of the human body.Bijuudama works in the same fashion, striking the interior.
Which is why Mokuton was weak against it, it damaged the lifeforce inside the tree trunk.Mokuton is literally immune to elemental attacks because

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Madaras fire which required multiple water release shinobi+Mei, a expert water user assistance to evaporate.
An argument can be made that Madara knows his fire was useful otherwise he would not use it, but he could have used it aimed at Hashirama and not the Mokuton as you can see the fire is sitting atop various trunks and not burning through at all.

Particle Style was compared to Gudodama+Omnyoudon.You think this would be done if all lasers worked like former?No.

Madara on the other hand went right passed him:

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If Obito can attack Jinchuuriki Madara while remaining intangible then Hashirama who is far more inferior than JInchuuriki Madara will suffer the same fate.

@Bold Hashirama being immune is Hashirama-fan fanfic especially when Biju Sage Mode Naruto still got absorbed by the Gedo statue and bijus like Kurama can manipulate Natural energy as well so he still gets absorbed easy one-shot.

As for Gracious deity gates those things do not work on living people. Madara
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and even
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so of course Tobi and Pain have no business destroying those gates. Nagato's lasers have more exposive power than explosive tags to he can break it with those and Tobi used Gedo mazou lightning chakra to burst a mountain jutsu so of course Gedo mazo is breaking it.

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Tobi himself have kamui so he'll simply phase through the attack by ending his body into kamui dimensions. Everyone her one this base even Hashirama fans know that Kamui>>Wood style except for you and Mellanoma so there's nothing much I can tell you since for some reason you believe that wood style is the strongest jutsu that ever existed.

Your first argument is addressed.

Gedo chains do not absorb chakra.They restrain chakra.Hashirama should be tied up in the first place which do not happen when he is atop ShinsuuSenju.Gedo Dragons are useless when they do not have feat of absorbing Senjutsu chakra.

Tobirama's explosion is a forbidden technique which could rival a Juubi Jinchuuriki's Hardness.No one has explosion of that power even among BSM Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal.

The only reason the Gates broke was because Hashirama was not in Sage Mode.Natural Energy must be imbued into the target for it to be completelt immobilized.Plus there is the fact Narutos Most powerful jutsu could not take down Madara yet Hashirama strained former.

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The Seal Head which is put atop Juubi restrained the most powerful Bijuu in existence, no way the duo overwhelming its control.Pain and Tobi ain't destroying the Gates filled with Natural Energy suppressing your will.Raiton do not work like Bijuudama and Rasengan so they are as useful as Madara Katon.

Rikudou Tobi · Apr 5, 2018

Uverdore9 said:
When Buddha struck Kyuubi SusanoO, Hashirama/Golem was not caught in the cross-fire.Obito cannot penetrate the golem which is wrapping Hashirama along with Dragon.If he phases through it, he needs space to materialize which he won't get inside that constricted area tightly clapsed by former constructs.

Hashirama is not wrapped in wood golem/dragon, he stands on top of its

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and Tobi can warp through anything. If it warps through kaguya then Hashirama's jutsus doesn't stand a single chance.

Buddha is not chakra.It is lifeforce.Gedo chains don't suppress said substance.

The 1,000-armed kanon is senjutsu chakra, and you can't use senjutsu without chakra. On top of that Ningendo and Gedo mazo feast on life energy, especially the Gedo mazo. That statue sucked out most of the life force out of nagato through the black rods when it imaled his back.

Shinra tensei can't break it because it is just a force.The best it can do is push it.

Shinra tensei is magnetic force and magnetic force is the force responsible for keeping the earth from drifting out of orbit. And considering the fact that Shinra tensei destroyed a village consisting of metal, marble, boulders, and wood then you should know that you blows up that statue into pieces because it's simple wood.

Obito cannot attack while phasing, Kakashi collaborated his Kamui with Obito for that effect.This is one eyed obito.

Well that's wrong because Kakashi didn't do anything. Obito warps and attacks at the same time and kakashi did nothing.

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Deity gates only need to restrain it for a while cause then Hashirama uses tree emergence and ties up thier legs so they cannot initiate Dragons+Chains.

Gedo mazo blows it up with chakra blast:

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As I said before, Hashirama indeed can sprout trees from his body for extra protection.

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Gets absorbed or destroyed. If this didn't work at VoTe then it won't work now. You forget that Tobi has wood style as well, so wood style doesn't work on him. Look:

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Are you saying bringer of Darkness is not chakra?Genjutsu is chakra passed onto the opponent body.That chakra shows you illusions which is the darkness, it does not really 'exist'.Its a genjutsu after all.It completely disrupts eye sight and in this case thier is no use in relying on smell of Cerberus when Hashirama is far above thier footing.

No it does not. The darkness is not chakra and as for the @bold part doesn't make sense at all since a dog's sense of smell is better than a 80 year old man (hiruzen). Hashirama's footing is shit compared to the power of the Rinnegan.

It was never stated it isn't effective in a open space.

I just showed you a scan of it not being effective in open space. You don't need to state it when you see that the darkness couldn't even breach the outer space of emergency forest.

Sharingan cannot see through all non-ocular genjutsu.Only its masters can.

Tobi mastered the sharingan and when you awaken the 3 tomoe you master the eye.

Sasuke states- 'It's said that certain masters have 'mastered' a form of ocular ninjutsu which give them the ability to reflect the ninjutsu, genjutsu and taijutsu.

The key word=mastered.Not anyone who has 'sharingan' can see through and reflect.Sharingan is a tool used to master such a imperrate jutsu.Otherwise Kurenai would not have used that genjutsu on Kakashi.We have never seen any sharingan user reflecting genjutsu other than Itachi, only ninjutsu and taijutsu mimicking and that was indra avatar and the most skilled guy in sharingan usage:Kakashi Hatake.Tobi has not mastered it in the levels of Itachi which means he cannot break the genjutsu at full power.Seeing through has nothing to do with breaking genjutsu.Even if you know you are in one, without actually having the power to break it, you cannot escape it.Naruto knew he was in a genjutsu yet he could not break it from a 30 percent Itachi.

Tobi has the mangekyo sharingan so saying that he didn't master the basic 3 tomoe sharingan that Sasuke was talking about doesn't make any sense considering the fact that you need to master the 3 tomoe before you awaken the mangekyo power.
On top of that Itachi told Sasuke that the fake Madara (Tobi) mastered the mangekyo sharingan and even taught him just contradict any type of assumption you have here. I'm not gonna entertain this any further so I'll just hope that you're trolling.

Anyways whatever percentage that may be its meaningless to look at it since Hashirama's prime power dominated Madara and Kyuubi.

He did not dominate, he had no chakra left. He had his left arm completely burned:

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He won by a last second sword stab.

5 mountain cutting implied the fact Madaras SusanoO can smash everything in the universe and not attack power necessarily.Shinra Tensei has the biggest crater creation in Canon Manga so are you saying the destructive force would wreck Kaguya?

Kaguya's Truth seeking orb has a planetary destructive force so no. That's your mistake there. Besides Kaguya and juubi nuke, Deidara has the largest destructive force in the manga that vaporized mountains and reached the clouds. Not saying that deidara is stronger than hashirama or pain but because his C0 is so big and destructive, all other jutsus that are constructed will be destroyed. The only difference is that deidara will die and Hashirama will live to create more jutsus if he wanted to.

Well Itachi was talking about someone else, clearly not tobi when he admittedly can't take on the Gokage by himself and he is nowhere near immortal.

Pain was only called invincible by Tobi who was fabricating his mind and konan who was talking from experience.

Konan called pain invincible not Tobi also Itachi was talking about Tobi and so was Tsunade.

Regardless you proved my point exactly. The only guy that hyped him up is kabuto and he was fabricating a lie because he said he was closer to the Sage of Six paths more than Hashirama and Madara said all that stupid hype because he lost to him.
That's why hype means nothing, even Hashirama's is useless. Feats>Hype

Shinjū absorbed shinobi lifeforce after entangling with Tree Emergence secret technique.Madara combined this with absorption which is why Kabuto said 'The power of the Sage of Six Paths' which is the power of Hashirama's Mokuton+Rinnegan, former which Hashirama could use when he was the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.Hashirama cells enhance physical energy which is another word for life energy which Danzo exploited to increase his said energy.It is a given Madara did what I said he did.

Shinju tree absorbed because of Kaguya, Hashirama has nothing to do with it. The rest I'm not going to repeat myself a 3rd time again so if you strongly believe that wood style can influence Six Path powers then post a manga scan of it stating so. If not, then you're wrong.

Rasengan affects the interior of the human body.Bijuudama works in the same fashion, striking the interior.
Which is why Mokuton was weak against it, it damaged the lifeforce inside the tree trunk.Mokuton is literally immune to elemental attacks because

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Madaras fire which required multiple water release shinobi+Mei, a expert water user assistance to evaporate.
An argument can be made that Madara knows his fire was useful otherwise he would not use it, but he could have used it aimed at Hashirama and not the Mokuton as you can see the fire is sitting atop various trunks and not burning through at all.

You just made all these things up right now because Kabuto and War arc Tobi disagree with you. They both got hit with a rasengan and their interior was completely fine. Using Madara's fire style further helps my point because Tobi's fire style is on par with edo rinnegan madara who has more powerful chakra than EMS Madara. Look at the jubi fire style

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Particle Style was compared to Gudodama+Omnyoudon.You think this would be done if all lasers worked like former?No.

Wrong. Look at what Madara's laser did to Gudodama+Onmyōton

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Cuts right through it.

Your first argument is addressed.

Countered, you were wrong kakashi had nothing to do with it as manga shows

Gedo chains do not absorb chakra.They restrain chakra.Hashirama should be tied up in the first place which do not happen when he is atop ShinsuuSenju.Gedo Dragons are useless when they do not have feat of absorbing Senjutsu chakra.

Gedo chains absorbed the bijus and bijus are nothing but sentient constructs of chakra. Gedo dragon absorbs all chakra it absorbed kurama, and kurama manipulates Natural energy so you're wrong again.

Tobirama's explosion is a forbidden technique which could rival a Juubi Jinchuuriki's Hardness.No one has explosion of that power even among BSM Naruto and Sasuke's arsenal.

No it's not and no it didn't.

The only reason the Gates broke was because Hashirama was not in Sage Mode.Natural Energy must be imbued into the target for it to be completelt immobilized.Plus there is the fact Narutos Most powerful jutsu could not take down Madara yet Hashirama strained former.

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The Seal Head which is put atop Juubi restrained the most powerful Bijuu in existence, no way the duo overwhelming its control.Pain and Tobi ain't destroying the Gates filled with Natural Energy suppressing your will.Raiton do not work like Bijuudama and Rasengan so they are as useful as Madara Katon.

Wrong. Gracious Deity gates is a Sage mode jutsu and Hashirama used Sage Mode when he created that Gate. The Gate that was destroyed by the explosive tag was the one SM Hashirama used on Juubito. Naruto's powerful jutsu destroyed Hashirama's wood dragon not gracious gates:

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Hashirama put the gracious gates after naruto threw the gates down.
Tobi and Pain crush the gracious gates that it's not even funny.

Uverdore9 · Apr 5, 2018

Rikudou Tobi said:
Hashirama is not wrapped in wood golem/dragon, he stands on top of its
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and Tobi can warp through anything. If it warps through kaguya then Hashirama's jutsus doesn't stand a single chance.

The 1,000-armed kanon is senjutsu chakra, and you can't use senjutsu without chakra. On top of that Ningendo and Gedo mazo feast on life energy, especially the Gedo mazo. That statue sucked out most of the life force out of nagato through the black rods when it imaled his back.

Hashirama can cover himself this time when he sees tobi disappearing from his eyes.
The dragons won't do anything because they are lifeforce absorbed which makes it impossible to absorb NE which is constantly gathered in Hashiramas body and molded with his chakra.

Shinra tensei is magnetic force and magnetic force is the force responsible for keeping the earth from drifting out of orbit. And considering the fact that Shinra tensei destroyed a village consisting of metal, marble, boulders, and wood then you should know that you blows up that statue into pieces because it's simple wood.

It failed to do any damage to Kakashi and Bee.It won't do anything significant against Shinsuusenju.

Well that's wrong because Kakashi didn't do anything. Obito warps and attacks at the same time and kakashi did nothing.

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Then why did he not use it against KCM Naruto and Kakashi?

Gedo mazo blows it up with chakra blast:

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Gedo Mazou cannot blow up Golem and SS.Former tanked a exploding Bijuudama in proximity.

Gets absorbed or destroyed. If this didn't work at VoTe then it won't work now. You forget that Tobi has wood style as well, so wood style doesn't work on him. Look:

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Won't work.You need Hashirama power merged with absorption to absorb Mokuton.Preta nor Rinnegan is never absorbing it.In vote there was no need for it.

No it does not. The darkness is not chakra and as for the @bold part doesn't make sense at all since a dog's sense of smell is better than a 80 year old man (hiruzen). Hashirama's footing is shit compared to the power of the Rinnegan.

Darkness is a illusion created by chakra which invades Obito cranial system.

You misunderstood my point, by 'footing' I meant Hashirama is high above Shinsuusenju.

I just showed you a scan of it not being effective in open space. You don't need to state it when you see that the darkness couldn't even breach the outer space of emergency forest.

Hashirama never wanted it to breach.

Tobi mastered the sharingan and when you awaken the 3 tomoe you master the eye.

Three tomoe do not get mastered when transcending to Mangekyou Sharingan.

Sasuke states- 'It's said that certain masters have 'mastered' a form of ocular ninjutsu which give them the ability to reflect the ninjutsu, genjutsu and taijutsu.

Mastering is necessary.Only Itachi and Kakashi mastered it to that extent.

Tobi has the mangekyo sharingan so saying that he didn't master the basic 3 tomoe sharingan that Sasuke was talking about doesn't make any sense considering the fact that you need to master the 3 tomoe before you awaken the mangekyo power.
On top of that Itachi told Sasuke that the fake Madara (Tobi) mastered the mangekyo sharingan and even taught him just contradict any type of assumption you have here. I'm not gonna entertain this any further so I'll just hope that you're trolling.

Itachi relived the memories of Madara Uchiha not Tobi.

He did not dominate, he had no chakra left. He had his left arm completely burned:

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He won by a last second sword stab.

Madara had Kyuubi,Perfect SusanoO.Yet.

Kaguya's Truth seeking orb has a planetary destructive force so no. That's your mistake there. Besides Kaguya and juubi nuke, Deidara has the largest destructive force in the manga that vaporized mountains and reached the clouds. Not saying that deidara is stronger than hashirama or pain but because his C0 is so big and destructive, all other jutsus that are constructed will be destroyed. The only difference is that deidara will die and Hashirama will live to create more jutsus if he wanted to.

ST is not a destructive force.

Konan called pain invincible not Tobi also Itachi was talking about Tobi and so was Tsunade.

Pain was considered invincible because he had a secret and without knowing that secret most shinobi lose.

Regardless you proved my point exactly. The only guy that hyped him up is kabuto and he was fabricating a lie because he said he was closer to the Sage of Six paths more than Hashirama and Madara said all that stupid hype because he lost to him.
That's why hype means nothing, even Hashirama's is useless. Feats>Hype

I did not understand this part of your argument.Kabuto never fabricated anything.

Shinju tree absorbed because of Kaguya, Hashirama has nothing to do with it. The rest I'm not going to repeat myself a 3rd time again so if you strongly believe that wood style can influence Six Path powers then post a manga scan of it stating so. If not, then you're wrong.

Tree emergence is Hashirama technique.

You just made all these things up right now because Kabuto and War arc Tobi disagree with you. They both got hit with a rasengan and their interior was completely fine. Using Madara's fire style further helps my point because Tobi's fire style is on par with edo rinnegan madara who has more powerful chakra than EMS Madara. Look at the jubi fire style

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Hashirama cells have healing powers.

Wrong. Look at what Madara's laser did to Gudodama+Onmyōton

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Cuts right through it.

Madara laser=/=Jinton.

Countered, you were wrong kakashi had nothing to do with it as manga shows

Gedo chains absorbed the bijus and bijus are nothing but sentient constructs of chakra. Gedo dragon absorbs all chakra it absorbed kurama, and kurama manipulates Natural energy so you're wrong again.

Kurama doesn't always absorb NE.

No it's not and no it didn't.

Wrong. Gracious Deity gates is a Sage mode jutsu and Hashirama used Sage Mode when he created that Gate. The Gate that was destroyed by the explosive tag was the one SM Hashirama used on Juubito. Naruto's powerful jutsu destroyed Hashirama's wood dragon not gracious gates:

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Hashirama put the gracious gates after naruto threw the gates down.
Tobi and Pain crush the gracious gates that it's not even funny.

Hashirama had no markings in his face.

Rikudou Tobi · Apr 5, 2018

Uverdore9 said:
Hashirama can cover himself this time when he sees tobi disappearing from his eyes.
The dragons won't do anything because they are lifeforce absorbed which makes it impossible to absorb NE which is constantly gathered in Hashiramas body and molded with his chakra.

Kamui still warps through them and Kmaui is too fast for Hashirama. Gedo dragon absorbs bijus work of Natural energy considering the fact that the Gedo mazo IS Kaguya.

It failed to do any damage to Kakashi and Bee.It won't do anything significant against Shinsuusenju.

Bee was never hit with a village shinra tensei and Kakashi was protected by the slug summoning because its regenerative body can cushion the blow. Shinra tensei blows up Shinsu senju into pieces just like the village that is made of the same material as shinsu senju. Wood.

Then why did he not use it against KCM Naruto and Kakashi?

Because Kakashi is his weakness thanks to his Kamui.

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Gedo Mazou cannot blow up Golem and SS.Former tanked a exploding Bijuudama in proximity.

Golem was destroyed by a mountain busting biju bomb, so any mountain busting move from the Gedo can destroy wood golem.
Shinsu senju will get destroyed by Shinra tensei and Kamui can just phase through it.

Won't work.You need Hashirama power merged with absorption to absorb Mokuton.Preta nor Rinnegan is never absorbing it.In vote there was no need for it.

Tobi has Hashirama's wood style power but besides that the Rinnegan powers can absorb wood style just like in canon. Even God tree wood style has been absorbed by Madara:

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Darkness is a illusion created by chakra which invades Obito cranial system.

You misunderstood my point, by 'footing' I meant Hashirama is high above Shinsuusenju.

Sharingan sees through all illusions and the darkness itself is not chakra. That's like saying Itachi uses Tsukyomi, the whole entire dreamscape is not an illusion but chakra. Hiruzen sense of smell cranial system was not affected by the darkness therefore Pain and Tobi are fine.

I did misunderstood and that was my fault. But like I said before, bringer of darkness cannot escape outside of Emergency forest as did in canon. I'm not gonna speculate that he can either because I use feats.

Hashirama never wanted it to breach.

Hashirama was never in control so my point still stands

Three tomoe do not get mastered when transcending to Mangekyou Sharingan.

Yes it does and Itachi said he mastered the sharingan

Mastering is necessary.Only Itachi and Kakashi mastered it to that extent.

So you're saying that Kakashi mastered Obito's eyes more than Obito himself? You're trolling.

Itachi relived the memories of Madara Uchiha not Tobi.

Itachi was talking about Tobi guise as Madara

Madara had Kyuubi,Perfect SusanoO.Yet.

Madara had the Kyubi stolen from him

ST is not a destructive force.

Hahah :lol Yes it is:

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Pain was considered invincible because he had a secret and without knowing that secret most shinobi lose.

And Hashirama was called god of shinobi because he created the shinobi system. Having six path powers defeat Hashirama.

I did not understand this part of your argument.Kabuto never fabricated anything.

He fabricated everything in regards to Hashirama because Kabuto claimed that he's stronger than Hashirama by saying he's closer to the Sage of Six paths

Tree emergence is Hashirama technique.

Deep emergency forest is Hashirama's technique but Divine Emergency Forest techique is Kaguya's technique because she used it during the first IT. It requires the power of the God tree which Hashirama does not have.

Hashirama cells have healing powers.

It's still limited because Hashirama didn't heal from this.

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Pain and Tobi have healing powers too, in fact pain can revive whenever he wants.

Madara laser=/=Jinton.

Both are lasers that work on a molecular level.

Kurama doesn't always absorb NE.

Senjutsu still part of his chakra so it really doesn't matter much

Hashirama had no markings in his face.

Yes he did:

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Explosive tags broke it so it's not that hard to break.

Uverdore9 · Apr 5, 2018

Rikudou Tobi said:
Kamui still warps through them and Kmaui is too fast for Hashirama. Gedo dragon absorbs bijus work of Natural energy considering the fact that the Gedo mazo IS Kaguya.

Gedo Mazo is a shell.It cannot absorb Shizen Enerugi.Gedo Mazo never absorbed Senjutsu chakra.Hashirama is not getting warped by Kamui.

Bee was never hit with a village shinra tensei and Kakashi was protected by the slug summoning because its regenerative body can cushion the blow. Shinra tensei blows up Shinsu senju into pieces just like the village that is made of the same material as shinsu senju. Wood.

ST = same force.Big/small.It pushed the buildings so hard it broke.Because they are attached to ground.SS is seperate.

Because Kakashi is his weakness thanks to his Kamui.

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Golem was destroyed by a mountain busting biju bomb, so any mountain busting move from the Gedo can destroy wood golem.
Shinsu senju will get destroyed by Shinra tensei and Kamui can just phase through it.

Obito cannot fly so when his teleportation'll not work when Hashirama is grasped by Dragon Golem leaving no space for enemy attack.Golem was not destroyed by Bijuudama.It tanked it.Bijuudama cannot be compared with any other destructive attack because mechanics>>>>>>>>>>>>destructive power.

Tobi has Hashirama's wood style power but besides that the Rinnegan powers can absorb wood style just like in canon. Even God tree wood style has been absorbed by Madara:

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Madara absorbed it by gaining Sage Mode Hashirama power.Kabuto stated he made him far more powerful which includes combining Wood and Rinnegan power.Obito cannot absorb jutsu with one eye alone.

Sharingan sees through all illusions and the darkness itself is not chakra. That's like saying Itachi uses Tsukyomi, the whole entire dreamscape is not an illusion but chakra. Hiruzen sense of smell cranial system was not affected by the darkness therefore Pain and Tobi are fine.

The darkness is an illusion which effects the eye nerves and makes you believe it's dark.There is no real darkness happening.Hashirama secretes his chakra into your cranial nerve system to attack your senses and the only sense the illusion affects is light perception.

I did misunderstood and that was my fault. But like I said before, bringer of darkness cannot escape outside of Emergency forest as did in canon. I'm not gonna speculate that he can either because I use feats.

That scan is from our perspective which is why there was no darkness to be seen in it.Because it's an illusion only the intended target feels it's effects.

Hashirama was never in control so my point still stands

Addressed.

Yes it does and Itachi said he mastered the sharingan

Itachi said Madara is a master.

So you're saying that Kakashi mastered Obito's eyes more than Obito himself? You're trolling.

Yes.I can have a mercedes car as my birthday gift but you could be a better driver of said car.

Itachi was talking about Tobi guise as Madara

Itachi was about Madara alone.

Madara had the Kyubi stolen from himself

Kyuubi SusanoO broken after right?Kyuubi SusanoO>>>>>>>>Base SusanoO which means the power of Shinsuusenju could wreck the entire landscape and kill Nagato.

Hahah :lol Yes it is:

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Buildings are attached.

And Hashirama was called god of shinobi because he created the shinobi system. Having six path powers defeat Hashirama.

He was called a god because of his godlike power which destroyed Kyuubi SusanoO, the strongest defense of that time.

He fabricated everything in regards to Hashirama because Kabuto claimed that he's stronger than Hashirama by saying he's closer to the Sage of Six paths

Never said he was greater than Hashirama.Also he was talking about alive shinobi.

Deep emergency forest is Hashirama's technique but Divine Emergency Forest techique is Kaguya's technique because she used it during the first IT. It requires the power of the God tree which Hashirama does not have.

Yes but it's properties are same.Hashirama power combined with Rinnegan is lifeforce absorption.Databook states Hashirama cells have life energy so they can extract it from others also.

It's still limited because Hashirama didn't heal from this.

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Pain and Tobi have healing powers too, in fact pain can revive whenever he wants.

Not limited.Databook states its unsurpassed healing.He was exhausted and rid of stamina to heal.

Both are lasers that work on a molecular level.

So 5 plates are made of porcelain but Person A states to Person B that only two of the five plates have disintegration properties?

Senjutsu still part of his chakra so it really doesn't matter much

Senjutsu is completely new chakra.

Yes he did:

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Explosive tags broke it so it's not that hard to break.

Tobirama never broke gates.It could be the ground rubble.

Madara broke it because he gained his life energy back.He got Hashirama life energy + his own+ Rinnegan power which overpowered the protectivity and garguantuan power of Deity Gates.It can suppress Bijuu and Ten Tails.

Rikudou Tobi · Apr 6, 2018

Uverdore9 said:
Gedo Mazo is a shell.It cannot absorb Shizen Enerugi.Gedo Mazo never absorbed Senjutsu chakra.Hashirama is not getting warped by Kamui.

He did, it's called

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. If Kaguya's shoulder can get warped by Kamui then Hashirama has no chance. Are you trying to say Hashirama>Kaguya?

ST = same force.Big/small.It pushed the buildings so hard it broke.Because they are attached to ground.SS is seperate.

That's not true because he blasted the ground underneath the village too, look at the two craters he cause in the village. The aggregated size and mass of the village is greater than Shinsu senju too.

@Bold Shinra tensei's magnetic force output the aggregation of a whole village that's bigger than VoTe. However in terms of mass (which is what I'm assuming you're trying to say only works with gravitational force not magnetic force. Mass is irrelevant to magnetic force. Even the DB said so about Shinra tensei.

Obito cannot fly so when his teleportation'll not work when Hashirama is grasped by Dragon Golem leaving no space for enemy attack.Golem was not destroyed by Bijuudama.It tanked it.Bijuudama cannot be compared with any other destructive attack because mechanics>>>>>>>>>>>>destructive power.

This doesn't make sense but Tobi can

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.
Bijubomb destroyed Deep emergency Forest and Wood golem with Dragon, what are you talking about?

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Madara absorbed it by gaining Sage Mode Hashirama power.Kabuto stated he made him far more powerful which includes combining Wood and Rinnegan power.Obito cannot absorb jutsu with one eye alone.

No he didn't, Hashirama cannot absorb the God tree. The rest is not true because Madara didn't have fake edo eyes when absorbing the tree. Tobi absorbs chakra not ninjutsu, I was talking about Pain's Gakido.

The darkness is an illusion which effects the eye nerves and makes you believe it's dark.There is no real darkness happening.Hashirama secretes his chakra into your cranial nerve system to attack your senses and the only sense the illusion affects is light perception.

No it doesn't otherwise Hiruzen's nose wouldn't of been working. As for the rest the DB never stated this

That scan is from our perspective which is why there was no darkness to be seen in it.Because it's an illusion only the intended target feels it's effects.

Shows me where this is stated in the manga?

Itachi said Madara is a master.

Itachi called Tobi, Madara.

Yes.I can have a mercedes car as my birthday gift but you could be a better driver of said car.

Not when it's a genetic bloodline.

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. He knew how to use transport kamui before who just learnt it after receiving Nine tails chakra.
So you're wrong once again.

You saying Kakashi>Tobi with his own eyes is like you saying Yamato>Hashirama with his own Wood style.

Itachi was about Madara alone.

No he wasn't.

Kyuubi SusanoO broken after right?Kyuubi SusanoO>>>>>>>>Base SusanoO which means the power of Shinsuusenju could wreck the entire landscape and kill Nagato.

Has nothing to do with anything. Nagato's shinra tensei blows Shinsu senju to pieces. The Vote landscape is smaller than the village that required both Hashirama and Madara's efforts.

Buildings are attached.

He destroyed the what the buildings were attached to as well so that's not an excuse. Look at the two craters

He was called a god because of his godlike power which destroyed Kyuubi SusanoO, the strongest defense of that time.

No he wasn't, that's not what the manga or DB say. You're just fanboying. The Sage of Six Paths was called god of shinobis because of his god-like power. Six path power=God Power. Hashirama has no Six path power therefore he's nothing god like.

It's funny that you came out of the closet with your fan for Hashirama because you can take this down now an awesome senjuUverdore9 :

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Never said he was greater than Hashirama.Also he was talking about alive shinobi.

Yes he did otherwise he wouldn't of said that he's closer to the Sage of Six paths power. Kabuto is alive btw.

Yes but it's properties are same.Hashirama power combined with Rinnegan is lifeforce absorption.Databook states Hashirama cells have life energy so they can extract it from others also.

Kaguya doesn't have a rinnegan so regardless manga calls it Divine deep emergency forest and Hashirama does not have that. It's not the same. Divine Forest turns people into Zetsus, so you telling me Hashirama can turn people into Zetsu's now?

Not limited.Databook states its unsurpassed healing.He was exhausted and rid of stamina to heal.

Then that means its limit tf? 0_0

So 5 plates are made of porcelain but Person A states to Person B that only two of the five plates have disintegration properties?

???
Lasers are lasers whether you like it or not. Particle beams is A Laser.

Senjutsu is completely new chakra.

Since when?

Tobirama never broke gates.It could be the ground rubble.

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Madara broke it because he gained his life energy back.He got Hashirama life energy + his own+ Rinnegan power which overpowered the protectivity and garguantuan power of Deity Gates.It can suppress Bijuu and Ten Tails.

1. Madara never had his rinnegan

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2. The Gracious Gates didn't suppress the biju because he still used

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when Hashirama put the Gates on his tail and he used his

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when Hashirama dropped his Head Seal.

Even Hashirama was confused on why he was able to use his powers. Hachibi revealed that he couldn't control his power properly.

Uverdore9 · Apr 6, 2018

Rikudou Tobi said:
He did, it's called
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. If Kaguya's shoulder can get warped by Kamui then Hashirama has no chance. Are you trying to say Hashirama>Kaguya?

The version of kurama is completely different.To get Senjutsu chakra he must attract it and mold with his chakra.Without that he doesn't have.

That's not true because he blasted the ground underneath the village too, look at the two craters he cause in the village. The aggregated size and mass of the village is greater than Shinsu senju too.

@Bold Shinra tensei's magnetic force output the aggregation of a whole village that's bigger than VoTe. However in terms of mass (which is what I'm assuming you're trying to say only works with gravitational force not magnetic force. Mass is irrelevant to magnetic force. Even the DB said so about Shinra tensei.

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Kakashi said 'similar' to magnetic force.

Ground is attached to another ground.

This doesn't make sense but Tobi can
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.
Bijubomb destroyed Deep emergency Forest and Wood golem with Dragon, what are you talking about?

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It wasn't shown clearly.Emergency forest can grow more and more.You cannnot break something which is rapidly growing with a mere repulsive force.

Can you break a rubber if it rapidly stretches infinitely?

No he didn't, Hashirama cannot absorb the God tree. The rest is not true because Madara didn't have fake edo eyes when absorbing the tree. Tobi absorbs chakra not ninjutsu, I was talking about Pain's Gakido.

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He cannot but combined with Rinnegan he can.

No it doesn't otherwise Hiruzen's nose wouldn't of been working. As for the rest the DB never stated this

Shows me where this is stated in the manga?

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What if Tobi can sniff Hashi out?He still can't affect Hashirama up in Buddha.
Its an illusion so when its shown in our perspective it looks like that.

Itachi called Tobi, Madara.

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Itachi relived Madara's face in memories.Otherwise he would relive mask man which he didn't.

Not when it's a genetic bloodline.
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. He knew how to use transport kamui before who just learnt it after receiving Nine tails chakra.
So you're wrong once again.

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Genetic bloodline doesn't exist.The only thing is the blood is transfered through blood.Kakashi is the masterful user not Obito.Awakening MS is through emotions,not skill.Kakashi awakened through skill.
Using Kamui=/=using the genjutsu breaking ability masterfully.Genjutsu breaking is a ocular ninjutsu like Kamui.

You saying Kakashi>Tobi with his own eyes is like you saying Yamato>Hashirama with his own Wood style.

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Yamato cannot master it because of his lack of skill.Hashirama is known for mastery.Kakashi is better.

No he wasn't.

Has nothing to do with anything. Nagato's shinra tensei blows Shinsu senju to pieces. The Vote landscape is smaller than the village that required both Hashirama and Madara's efforts.

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By your logic if Shinra tensei hits kaguya she dies?

He destroyed the what the buildings were attached to as well so that's not an excuse. Look at the two craters

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Ground is attached, SS is not.

No he wasn't, that's not what the manga or DB say. You're just fanboying. The Sage of Six Paths was called god of shinobis because of his god-like power. Six path power=God Power. Hashirama has no Six path power therefore he's nothing god like.

It's funny that you came out of the closet with your fan for Hashirama because you can take this down now an awesome senjuUverdore9 :

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Hashirama=God Like power.Kabuto said there is no living shinobi of his level.

Yes he did otherwise he wouldn't of said that he's closer to the Sage of Six paths power. Kabuto is alive btw.

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Among alive shinobi he has many bloodlines in his body so he is near Hagoromo.

Kaguya doesn't have a rinnegan so regardless manga calls it Divine deep emergency forest and Hashirama does not have that. It's not the same. Divine Forest turns people into Zetsus, so you telling me Hashirama can turn people into Zetsu's now?

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When Hashirama power combined with Rinnegan it can absorb lifeforce.

Then that means its limit tf? 0_0

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No, you need chakra to accelerate healing.

???
Lasers are lasers whether you like it or not. Particle beams is A Laser.

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In NarutoVerse, only Onoki and Gudodama is atomizing.

Since when?

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1. Madara never had his rinnegan

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He had his life energy which is connected to Rinnegan as after getting it he gained his Rinnegan.
Deity Gates have a special property to disappear when it's role is finished.

2. The Gracious Gates didn't suppress the biju because he still used
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when Hashirama put the Gates on his tail and he used his
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when Hashirama dropped his Head Seal.

Even Hashirama was confused on why he was able to use his powers. Hachibi revealed that he couldn't control his power properly.

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Hashirama used head seal after the fission happened.Head seal completely disables will.Tail Seal do not suppress will so he could fire.

Rikudou Tobi · Apr 6, 2018

Uverdore9 said:
The version of kurama is completely different.To get Senjutsu chakra he must attract it and mold with his chakra.Without that he doesn't have.

How so? Kurama is Kurama.

Kakashi said 'similar' to magnetic force.

Ground is attached to another ground.

No it was confirmed magnetic forces during the war and there's two layers of craters on the ground so your logic is invalid if Pain destroyed the thing that the village is anchored to.

It wasn't shown clearly.Emergency forest can grow more and more.You cannnot break something which is rapidly growing with a mere repulsive force.

Can you break a rubber if it rapidly stretches infinitely?

And yet the biju bomb destroyed it completely. Unlike an infinite rubber, Hashirama's chakra is not infinite so it cannot grow more and more if someone like EMS Madara destroyed it once and for all.
Your fanboying for Hashirama forgets that he has a chakra limit. Look at the VoTe battle and name how many times he used each jutsu.

He cannot but combined with Rinnegan he can.

Rinnegan cannot combined with the rinnegan otherwise show me rinnegan powers and wood style powers being used together.
Yes gakido can.

What if Tobi can sniff Hashi out?He still can't affect Hashirama up in Buddha.
Its an illusion so when its shown in our perspective it looks like that.

Tobi has the sharingan, he doesn't need to sniff out Hashirama when he can see his chakra color up there. Pain blows away the buddha like he did the village and kamui casually warps anywhere whenever so by passing is neg diff.

Itachi relived Madara's face in memories.Otherwise he would relive mask man which he didn't.

Itachi never relived anything, he only has one life.

Genetic bloodline doesn't exist.The only thing is the blood is transfered through blood.Kakashi is the masterful user not Obito.Awakening MS is through emotions,not skill.Kakashi awakened through skill.
Using Kamui=/=using the genjutsu breaking ability masterfully.Genjutsu breaking is a ocular ninjutsu like Kamui.

1. Genetics bloodline does exist. Itachi's word > yours
2. Obito mastered the sharingan way before Kakashi and to think otherwise is stupid.
3. Obito genjutsu a perfect jinchuuriki while kakashi cannot. Stop talking these fanfic lies
4. Kakashi never awakened the rinnegan through skill, go read the manga again. It was Obito who awakened the sharingan on his own and kakashi passed out. He didn't even know his eye was a mangekyo sharingan since part 1 Naruto.
5. Awakening the tomoe sharingan is through emotions just like how kid Sasuke, kid madara, and sarada did.

Yamato cannot master it because of his lack of skill.Hashirama is known for mastery.Kakashi is better.

Hashirama cannot master it because of lack of skill. Yamato is known for mastery.Obito is obviously better

By your logic if Shinra tensei hits kaguya she dies?

Kaguya is immortal, Hashirama's wood style is not.

Ground is attached, SS is not.

The ground is attached to the earth so what you're saying sounds stupid. SS gets negged

Hashirama is not God like power.Kabuto said there is no living shinobi of his level.

Fixed. And kabuto is a liar like itachi.

Among alive shinobi he has many bloodlines in his body so he is near Hagoromo.

That's why Itachi negged him and he declined to fight Tobi after he challenged him.

When Hashirama power combined with Rinnegan it can absorb lifeforce.

Fanfic

No, you need chakra to accelerate healing.

That's why it's limited

In NarutoVerse, only Onoki and Gudodama is atomizing.

Wrong. Madara sliced through Gudodama and Naruto's rasenshuriken works on a molecular level so clearly you don't know what you are talking about.

He had his life energy which is connected to Rinnegan as after getting it he gained his Rinnegan.
Deity Gates have a special property to disappear when it's role is finished.

No he didn't. No rinnegan no rinnegan powers

Hashirama used head seal after the fission happened.Head seal completely disables will.Tail Seal do not suppress will so he could fire.

No he didn't, he used it before. Read the page I give you an awsome senju.

Uverdore9 · Apr 6, 2018

Rikudou Tobi said:
How so? Kurama is Kurama.

Kurama needs to mold to have senjutsu.He doesn't mold at base when he's simply sitting.

No it was confirmed magnetic forces during the war and there's two layers of craters on the ground so your logic is invalid if Pain destroyed the thing that the village is anchored to.

The ground is layered and attached.

ST is a force which is repulsive.

And yet the biju bomb destroyed it completely. Unlike an infinite rubber, Hashirama's chakra is not infinite so it cannot grow more and more if someone like EMS Madara destroyed it once and for all.
Your fanboying for Hashirama forgets that he has a chakra limit. Look at the VoTe battle and name how many times he used each jutsu.

The trees can resist ST for some minutes by growing and Hashirama could utilize that time to drop Deity Gates.

Rinnegan cannot combined with the rinnegan otherwise show me rinnegan powers and wood style powers being used together.
Yes gakido can.

Rinnegan cannot absorb lifeforce.

Tobi has the sharingan, he doesn't need to sniff out Hashirama when he can see his chakra color up there. Pain blows away the buddha like he did the village and kamui casually warps anywhere whenever so by passing is neg diff.

How can he see chakra when his eyesight is blocked?He cannot see the colour in Hashirama's chakra then.

Itachi never relived anything, he only has one life.

In Sasuke fight he remembered real madara and he was unmasked.

1. Genetics bloodline does exist. Itachi's word > yours
2. Obito mastered the sharingan way before Kakashi and to think otherwise is stupid.
3. Obito genjutsu a perfect jinchuuriki while kakashi cannot. Stop talking these fanfic lies
4. Kakashi never awakened the rinnegan through skill, go read the manga again. It was Obito who awakened the sharingan on his own and kakashi passed out. He didn't even know his eye was a mangekyo sharingan since part 1 Naruto.
5. Awakening the tomoe sharingan is through emotions just like how kid Sasuke, kid madara, and sarada did.

Genetics is just a bunch of lies Itachi gathered.There is no such thing in Narutoverse.You remember what Kabuto said?'Those who don't have talent must steal it'.So how is someone stealing 'talent'?

By the acquiring of the talent's source.Sharingan is origin which stolen can be used even more effectively than real user.
Obito never controlled Jinchuuriki.He couldn't use against Kakashi and Naruto.
Mangekyou and Sharingan is awakened through emotion.But the mastering of the ocular ninjutsu of copying and genjutsu reflection should be mastered.Kakashi is more skilled in copying than other uchiha hence his nickname.Itachi mastered Genjutsu reflection.

Hashirama cannot master it because of lack of skill. Yamato is known for mastery.Obito is obviously better

Don't know what you meant here.

Kaguya is immortal, Hashirama's wood style is not.

So you believe her body can be broken because she's only immortal?

The ground is attached to the earth so what you're saying sounds stupid. SS gets negged

SS is not attached to Earth.

Fixed. And kabuto is a liar like itachi.

Kabuto is not liar.

That's why Itachi negged him and he declined to fight Tobi after he challenged him.

Who declined?Kabuto can also not mean it in the power way but in the clan blood way.Jugo and Karin are both from clan connected to Hagoromo.He has thier cells.

Fanfic

That's why it's limited

Wrong. Madara sliced through Gudodama and Naruto's rasenshuriken works on a molecular level so clearly you don't know what you are talking about.

Slicing is not molecurazing.Rasenshuriken cuts the chakra network.

No he didn't. No rinnegan no rinnegan powers

His life energy is linked to it.Obitos body stressed because of Rinnegan because of consuming life energy which is there in every cell.

No he didn't, he used it before. Read the page I give you an awsome senju.

Then the Juubi's will should've been sealed.Obito and nagato are not juubi so what juubi does is not of concern to them.

Mori Jin · Apr 7, 2018

Hashirama beats them both. Pain goes out first. And if it gets into a physical confrontation with Obito, then sage Mode would give the added bonus to win. Or he just poisons the field and Obito dies, either way works.

Rikudou Tobi · Apr 7, 2018

Uverdore9 said:
Kurama needs to mold to have senjutsu.He doesn't mold at base when he's simply sitting.

Bsm Naruto that was absorbed by the gedo mazou had senjutsu chakra so once again senjutsu is no problem.

The ground is layered and attached.

layer of what attached to what? Your trolling is weak asf

ST is a force which is repulsive.

repulsive forces can repel all matter.

The trees can resist ST for some minutes by growing and Hashirama could utilize that time to drop Deity Gates.

Shinra tensei can't repel trees?

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Rinnegan cannot absorb lifeforce.

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How can he see chakra when his eyesight is blocked?He cannot see the colour in Hashirama's chakra then.

Sharingan sees chakra color so nothing is blocked.

In Sasuke fight he remembered real madara and he was unmasked.

He never met madara unmasked nor did he live long enough to see Izuna

Genetics is just a bunch of lies Itachi gathered.There is no such thing in Narutoverse.You remember what Kabuto said?'Those who don't have talent must steal it'.So how is someone stealing 'talent'?

Kabuto said that Itachi and Sasuke are genetically superior because of their bloodline so you're not making any sense right now.

By the acquiring of the talent's source.Sharingan is origin which stolen can be used even more effectively than real user.
Obito never controlled Jinchuuriki.He couldn't use against Kakashi and Naruto.
Mangekyou and Sharingan is awakened through emotion.But the mastering of the ocular ninjutsu of copying and genjutsu reflection should be mastered.Kakashi is more skilled in copying than other uchiha hence his nickname.Itachi mastered Genjutsu reflection.

Nope. Manga never stated such and Obito is the master of his sharingan more than Kakashi ever will. Even Kakashi admitted that he's inferior and he caanot control 7 bijus or a perfect jinchuuriki like Obito can.

So you believe her body can be broken because she's only immortal?

What?

SS is not attached to Earth.

That's all the more reason why it gets blown into pieces. 6 tails had to anchor itself to the ground in order to withstand the smaller shinra tensei.

Kabuto is not liar.

Yes he is. He said so himself to sasuke

Who declined?Kabuto can also not mean it in the power way but in the clan blood way.Jugo and Karin are both from clan connected to Hagoromo.He has thier cells.

He told him to tell him the jutsu for edo tensei or he'll kill him. He said that he didn't want to fight him so he told him.
Tobi has six path powers so he's closer to Hagoromoo than Kabuto.

Slicing is not molecurazing.Rasenshuriken cuts the chakra network.

But Madara's light fang does

His life energy is linked to it.Obitos body stressed because of Rinnegan because of consuming life energy which is there in every cell.

Nope. There was no rinnegan and he couldn't use his rinnegan powers when he was blind

Then the Juubi's will should've been sealed.Obito and nagato are not juubi so what juubi does is not of concern to them.

Hashirama can't seal people's will and kamui can't be sealed either.

Uverdore9 · Apr 7, 2018

Rikudou Tobi said:
Bsm Naruto that was absorbed by the gedo mazou had senjutsu chakra so once again senjutsu is no problem.

Proof?

l

ayer of what attached to what? Your trolling is weak asf

Another ground.

repulsive forces can repel all matter.

Not when trees are growing rapidly and entagling him.

Shinra tensei can't repel trees?

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Those trees don't grow through said method I stated above.

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Only Jigokudo and Ningendo.
Base Rinnegan absorption can't and Madara didn't use Jigokudo/Ningendo.

Sharingan sees chakra color so nothing is blocked.

This is where the problem arises.Genjutsu which affects vision affects chakra vision.Only after breaking the Genjutsu is his chakra visible.

He never met madara unmasked nor did he live long enough to see Izuna

But his memories showed Madara's true face and not obito masked face?Why is that?All those who knew Tobi memorized his masked image like Naruto and Minato.

Kabuto said that Itachi and Sasuke are genetically superior because of their bloodline so you're not making any sense right now.

You're taking the word 'blood' too literally.What Kabuto meant is Uchiha Clan are skilled in warfare and high IQ and talent in warfare.Not that anyone who steals thier blood'll get it.Sharingan and affinity towards fire style is why they are great.

Nope. Manga never stated such and Obito is the master of his sharingan more than Kakashi ever will. Even Kakashi admitted that he's inferior and he caanot control 7 bijus or a perfect jinchuuriki like Obito can.

He didn't admit that.Kakashi is a greater master than Obit

bito and Itachi complimented him that he mastered the Sharingan.Deidara and Madara complimented Kakashi on being skilled MS user.

What?

That's all the more reason why it gets blown into pieces. 6 tails had to anchor itself to the ground in order to withstand the smaller shinra tensei.

Which is why this concept is misconcepted beyond extreme.Kyuubi'd just get pushed away because of it's force.It wouldn't be damaged.The things which pushed must be ingrated towards the ground to break.Hashirama's trees can rapidly grow and suppress Nagato after one ST during the time limit.

Yes he is. He said so himself to sasuke

Show me where.

He told him to tell him the jutsu for edo tensei or he'll kill him. He said that he didn't want to fight him so he told him.
Tobi has six path powers so he's closer to Hagoromoo than Kabuto.

That's completely altered from it's original meaning.Kabuto had Edo Tensei, how can Tobi beat all of his Edos and his Sage powers at once.Kabuto needed to collaborate with him.

But Madara's light fang does

I've proven why it doesn't work like that.It just cuts.

Nope. There was no rinnegan and he couldn't use his rinnegan powers when he was blind

Then it must be a symptom of Madara gaining his life energy back which caused a surge of power to break the gates.

Hashirama can't seal people's will and kamui can't be sealed either.

Deity gates manifestation is sealing people and Bijuus wills.The only one who could overcome this are Jinchuuriki because they've a partner inside of them so essentially two wills.

Rikudou Tobi · Apr 7, 2018

Uverdore9 said:
Proof?

Rinnegan Madara did it.

l
Another ground.

It's the same ground you troll.

Not when trees are growing rapidly and entagling him.

Yes he does, just like how he blew away all those trees around killerbee.

Those trees don't grow through said method I stated above.

Those trees get blown away again through the method I stated above

Only Jigokudo and Ningendo.
Base Rinnegan absorption can't and Madara didn't use Jigokudo/Ningendo.

Gedo mazo just absorbed all those ninjas life force including some of nagato's so you're wrong there. And this is nagato that's fighting not Madara.

This is where the problem arises.Genjutsu which affects vision affects chakra vision.Only after breaking the Genjutsu is his chakra visible.

Sharingan sees through all illusions, so nothing is affecting their vision in front of the all seeing eyes

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Even 2 tomoe can see through illusions

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Even Obito mastered seeing through illusions with his 2 tomoe

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And Sasuke said that a any shinobi who have the sharingan eye mastered a form of ocular ninjutsu. The he said it enables you to penetrate all illusions. So nothing was said about you having to master the sharingan at all. That's fanfic because you didn't read properly. Just by having the sharingan automatically makes you master the ocular ninjutstu.

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But his memories showed Madara's true face and not obito masked face?Why is that?All those who knew Tobi memorized his masked image like Naruto and Minato.

Kisame didn't know Tobi until he took off his mask.
And Itachi only shared the story that Tobi already told him.

You're taking the word 'blood' too literally.What Kabuto meant is Uchiha Clan are skilled in warfare and high IQ and talent in warfare.Not that anyone who steals thier blood'll get it.Sharingan and affinity towards fire style is why they are great.

No he didn't. There clan are said to be geniuses. Even Sasuke told Orochimaru that.

He didn't admit that.Kakashi is a greater master than Obitbito and Itachi complimented him that he mastered the Sharingan.Deidara and Madara complimented Kakashi on being skilled MS user.

Wrong. You're being stupid to think that Kakashi mastered the sharinan better than Obito. Kakashi wasn't able to use half of Obito's sharingan powers until the middle of the war arc.
Itachi never complimented Kakashi for mastering the sharingan. Masters of the sharingan have the mangekyo sharingan which is the highest power. Deidara and Madara never complimented Kakashi either. All they said is that he has a good eye which belongs to Obito.

Which is why this concept is misconcepted beyond extreme.Kyuubi'd just get pushed away because of it's force.It wouldn't be damaged.The things which pushed must be ingrated towards the ground to break.Hashirama's trees can rapidly grow and suppress Nagato after one ST during the time limit.

Kyubi never got pushed away because he anchored himself to the ground. If he didn't, he would've had broken bones like the Boss Toad summonings.
Nagato blows away Hashirama's trees since Yamato mastered wood style better than Hashirama.

Show me where.

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That's completely altered from it's original meaning.Kabuto had Edo Tensei, how can Tobi beat all of his Edos and his Sage powers at once.Kabuto needed to collaborate with him.

Six path black weapon rods immobilize edo tensei on top of that gedo can consume their soul. I didn't alter any meaning otherwise proof it.

I've proven why it doesn't work like that.It just cuts.

You didn't prove anything, you just gave an opinion.

Then it must be a symptom of Madara gaining his life energy back which caused a surge of power to break the gates.

No, it's because he has a real body and not a fake papered edo tensei one. Deity gates don't work on living people.

Deity gates manifestation is sealing people and Bijuus wills.The only one who could overcome this are Jinchuuriki because they've a partner inside of them so essentially two wills.

I didn't read any of that in the manga or databook so that's a lie.

Pain and Tobi VS Hashirama..........Who wins ?

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