Kirin and byakugo
- Thread starter Calpal
- Start date
Sasuke commands the heavens. Bring forth lightning like zues himself and being totally honest the manga was very vague about it because it's something that just can't be explained I suppose
BenjerminGaye
Active member
Awards
not true, since he had to make the thunderclouds himself/with itachi's ama. Where as zeus would just make the clouds at will(actually i don't even think that's necessary)
Tbh i don't see how sasuke guiding naturally existing lightning, is and different than lets say zabuza guiding preexisting water. And when put into that perspective it doesn't really feel like some grand tech.
Now im not discrediting kirins power its just again. Using a preesisting element for your elemental techs doesn't seem like some god tier skill. In fact back in part 1 it was the other way around.
Last edited:
Reviewing Logic
Active member
Kirin is still pretty cool
All be it self healing and regeneration is even crazier
On the Kirin bit though... Sasuke is VOTE 2 (at least I saw it in the anime) was able to quick shoot Kirin down on Naruto compared to the slower approach with Itachi but unlike the fight with his brother, there were already thunderclouds in the sky when facing Naruto.
What Sasuke needs is Purple Lightning, as the Kakashi novel stated that it can summon thunderclouds by shooting it up in the air.
FemmeFatale
Active member
Awards
Tsuande didn't. Really teach Sakura, most of Sakura feats are hers alone , tsuande simply gave her the means and Sakura applied her knowledge and skill to do whatever. Medical ninjutsu is just using your chakra to effect the body.
And Sakura tamed nature, big deal.
Sakura rewrote the laws of nature with her jutsu.
Her controling the poison in kankuro body, extracting all of it is more impressive that lightening bending
BenjerminGaye
Active member
Awards
kirin was already known for its speed.It was only drawn out the first time he did it because he was unveiling a new tech and savoring his "victory"
Guiding and shaping Kirin requires you to tame lightning itself per Zetsu's statement because if lightning chakra was all that was needed many shinobi would have used Kirin by now and zetsu wouldn't have been as surprised. The difference doesn't need to be visual to be established as the rules of the manga already established what is and what's not. Water style users can control water using their chakra and earth style users the same way. Fire,lightning style and wind style users produce their own element. If someone can tame wind then they can simply suffocate the atoms sphere around a user while it still being completely invisibile to their opponent.
It's simple don't overthink things because you're just trying to apply logic that doesn't exist in a fictional manga
BenjerminGaye
Active member
Awards
you mean guiding and shaping lightning. Kirin is just the name of the tech. Its no different than guiding and shaping water. Water dragon is just the name of the tech.
i don't take zetsu's surprise to mean anything. Dude calls himself kaguya's will, but acts as if hes never seen susanoo when itachi pulls it out, despite knowing madara, indra, and uchihas since the very first uchiha.
And according to that same zetsu its only on a different scale because he used a pre existing source. Which makes sense.
Kakashi with preexting water can pull off this:
You must be registered for see images
sure its not small hill busting like kirin, but without it he can only do a small water wall. With the only ppl even cloming close to doing techs on that scale without preexisting water is mei (kage) and kisame (practical jin)
In part 1 water jutsu was only meant to be used with the source with tobirama being the exception. Rules of the manga changed a lot from then as we see many shinobi use water jutsu without a source being present so it just goes to show how much the author bends the rules of the manga to his liking.
Kirin is a unique jutsu and zetsu was surprised by susanoo as he was surprised about the weapons Itachi possessed. Kirin was capable of busting a mountain essentially a tbb level technique performed without chakra present. Kakashi kisame and meis jutsu all required an abundance of chakra to be gathered. Sasukes technique can be nothing short of miraculous as he tamed the power of lightning to do his bidding.
BenjerminGaye
Active member
Awards
Not really true
You must be registered for see images
water release hiding in water. But kakashi notes in the very next chapter that it hasn't rained for days.
You must be registered for see images
Not to mention that that excuse doesn't really hold up cuz hes a kage. Using high lvl water tech's without a water source is expected of him (as stated by orochimaru) he's easily added to the list alongside mei (another kage) and kisame(need i say more).Especially since he also did water dragon from his mouth, whereas kakashi needed a body of water. Couple with the fact that kakashi needed 44 hand seals where as tobirama only used 1.
bold is false.
You must be registered for see images
that jutsu he calls susanoo. . .
given who he is and who he knows he should know full well the risks that come along with susanoo. In Fact he knew more about the spirit items, and orochimaru's 8 headed snake than that of susanoo. So again his surprise means little to nothing.
As for the rest, we really don't know the chakra breakdown. I can easily assume kakashi using water vortex and water dragon with pre existing water has to be easier on his chakra reserves than for him to make the water himself. Especially given his low chakra amount at the beginning of the show, and we've never seen mei use preesisting water. Where as for kisame's large scale techs he usually makes the water himself.
all im saying is i don't see a difference.
Last edited:
Uverdore9
Active member
Awards
Kirin is made with Senjutsu,that is,Natural Energy.The Dragon comes to life hence why Zetsu uses the word tame instead of control.You do know non living things cannot be tamed right?Kabuto uses Senjutsu/NE to induce life into Inanimate Substances like stone.The dragon even roared like a sentient creature.Your simplification of the technique with irrelevant water techniques is literally nonsensical.
lool. Just realizing how that 'tame lightning' statement pretty much took me for a spin and made it look like it was something super great when its pretty much what we've seen done throughout the series with other elements. No doubt Kirin is deadly.. but that over the top hype is cleared from my eyes now xD
However, wasn't it white zetsu that was saying that stuff about Susanoo?
Bold lol
'Bad temper' isn't a living thing.
Last edited:
neosmith500
Active member
I'm simply applying logic , which ur failing to do as usual.
-Kirin destroyed a mountain and wreked Itachi's susano'o to the point that Itachi was damaged. Sakura's body would vanish with the lightning. FACT.
-Naruto never tanked chidori in p1 , get ur facts straight. Chidori was able to cut through him like butter as it would Sakura. Sakura=Butter to Chidori.
-Bold is all kinds of irrelevant and wrong.
In a serious fight Sasuke neg diffs , not low. Medical ninjutsu is useless when Sasuke would simply slice and dice her like he was about to do here.
You must be registered for see images
Sakura cant even visualize Sasuke's movements to mentally keep up.
You must be registered for see images
So she clearly isn't reacting to his shunshin even mentally , much less physically. Sasuke would blitz and cut her to bits neg diff. She cannot defend herself and all her jutsu are useless. Her only shot is hitting him like she tried in canon , which clealy wont work even w/o Nagashi. Sasuke negs her with absolute ease.
LOL , Base Naruto after training with Jiraiya.
Last edited:
DiamondxDust
Active member
No way was she stronger, because like others have said she didn't have enough chakra stored up to perform the technique at the time. Even if she did have it, The technique obviously has some kind of limit as well. If Sasuke cuts Sakura in half using the chidori spear or kusanagi her regenerative powers will be useless and she would die. Sasuke would win against byakugo because of the gap in their speed, fighting ability, and jutsu arsenal. Sasuke has tons of options to beat her.
King Of Pop
Active member
Not even war arc sakura is stronger than Ep2 Sasuke let alone Ep2 Sakura who factually can't perceive sasuke shunshin. So no she was not anywhere near the strongest, that spot goes to sasuke who was leagues above the other two at that point.
Sakura healing from something that destroyed the entire uchiha hideout and Susanoo in one go? What are you pple smoking? and It's not a one time technique.
BenjerminGaye
Active member
Awards
you can tell who's talking based off of how the words look. Black zetsu's words are like double bolded, not to mention the thought bubble comes from the left (his right) side.
As for the bold, yeah, that's why i questioned it. I never really got what that ment. Cuz the moment you look at it without the whole "tame lightning" bit it doesn't seem all to different from other examples. And it also shares the benefits of other examples. And as seen the scale of the techs go up.
Bad example a small puddle of water and tobirama high level water jutsu are a pretty big difference. there was a whole shinobi alliance that used water jutsu against Madara as well with no water present. Author is just bending the rules as the manga goes this shouldn't be a surprise.
The difference is pretty self explanatory. You can't perform high level jutsu without a lot of chakra unless you're able to tame the element. In the examples you showed the scale of the water techniques would be on a whole other level if they had tamed that element but instead they had to gather chakra and perform handseals. Kirin requires neither leading zetsu to say he tamed lightning. No other jutsu has been performed on that scale with so little chakra present. Please correct me if I'm wrong
Last edited: