Sasuke DID NOT

[InfiniteMugen]

Lying to Kakashi would help Kakashi to believe that Sasuke could break Tsukuyomi, so that when he died to Sasuke it would be believable. Why would Sasuke know if broken Tsukuyomi or not? Tsukuyomi's weakness is that it needs eye contact.

How is that a weakness for a sharingan related genjutsu? Also, what’s the point of that if kakashi never tells sasuke what itachi told him?

 

[King Of Pop]

Lying to Kakashi would help Kakashi to believe that Sasuke could break Tsukuyomi, so that when he died to Sasuke it would be believable. Why would Sasuke know if broken Tsukuyomi or not? Tsukuyomi's weakness is that it needs eye contact.

Lmao what a joke. I mean, it's this how much pple want tsukuyomi to be unbreakable? lol you people kill me

 

[SeveN797]

Databook lol? You’re joking right

BZ confirmed that 3T user can still beat MS user because doujutsu is just a tool after all, and it all depends on who wields it. Databook further confirmed BZ's words. And what's the most important, yes we know Itachi held back, but none of us can tell and prove during which points of the fight he did. You can't prove that specifically tsukuyomi was weakened.

Bro, the databook puts a "?" in that passage. DB is not sure whether he broke it or not.

Besides look at this scan

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Tobi says Sasuke didnt break tsukuyomi and regular genjutsu. He didnt see through.

No he doesn't say "tsukuyomi and regular genjutsu". He said "illusions" and by illusions he was referring to Itachi deceiving Sasuke till the end.

EDIT: deleted part of my reply by accident, here it is:

Bro, the databook puts a "?" in that passage. DB is not sure whether he broke it or not.

Question mark is in the first sentence. DB is speculating how Sasuke managed to do it(was it because of hatred?). Next sentence ends with a dot.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Master Omi]

How is that a weakness for a genjutsu? Also, what’s the point of that if kakashi never tells sasuke what itachi told him?

Because you can't ever use the genjutsu, unless that requirement is fulfilled. It's not about Sasuke, he doesn't want Kakashi to question that Sasuke could beat him. If Kakashi decided there was no way for Sasuke to break Tsukuyomi, it would raise unwanted questions about Itachi, when Itachi died to Sasuke.

 

[chopstickchakra]

The problem with your example and the bold is that you are not taking into account that the manga has told us concerning countering tsukuyomi. We know it can be broken so that's not debatable. and we know the instance it was broken was someone who fitted the requirement that itachi spoke off. Him not going for the kill with the jutsu would simply mean that it was prolonged enough for sasuke to break it but he still needed to break it regardless. Itachi didn't undo it

I'm not saying he "undid" it I'm saying breaking something that's running at less than 100% isn't the same as breaking it. I don't actually have a horse in this race just more so playing devil's advocate.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

Because you can't ever use the genjutsu, unless that requirement is fulfilled. It's not about Sasuke, he doesn't want Kakashi to question that Sasuke could beat him. If Kakashi decided there was no way for Sasuke to break Tsukuyomi, it would raise unwanted questions about Itachi, when Itachi died to Sasuke.

That’s like saying having to mold chakra to use a jutsu is a weakness. And yea I dunno. That seems like a stretch, sasuke didn’t listen to anybody when it came to itachi so I don’t see why that would of mattered at all. It makes more sense he was telling kakashi cause they personally know each other, plus back in pt1 kishi was very “in depth” with his jutsu. It would of had the same effect had he just told kakashi it was unbreakable at all

 

[King Of Pop]

I'm not saying he "undid" it I'm saying breaking something that's running at less than 100% isn't the same as breaking it. I don't actually have a horse in this race just more so playing devil's advocate.

In some ways it actually is the same. and how do you know it wasn't 100%? that's speculation.

 

[SumnNarutoRelated]

I’m on the phone as well so I feel your pain. The blindness is a general weakness of ms, while tsuki is a singular jutsu, although I can’t straight say your wrong, so it’s really just my belief against yours, which is fine too. If itachi didn’t break it though, how’d it end? It was nothing like the way it ended with kakashi. We literally see the illusion break. I see how him not putting as much pressure on sasuke as say he did kakashi during tsuki might have made it easier, but the fact would still stand that sasuke broke it. I also don’t really think itachi had to hold back that much at the physical state he was in during their fight, but that’s neither here nor there

I think Kishi wanted to masterfully craft a fight to the point where we would be unable to differentiate when and where Itachi held back. And he did an excellent job at it.

The thing is, we cant say here is where Itachi held back. All we know for sure is that he purposely did. My thing is, if he had to hold back at some point during the fight, it would be when he used his most powerful jutsu.

This is all speculative of course, but if Tsukuyomi could truly have been broken by Sasuk, i dont think Itachi would've used it at all.

The series has shown that people whip out their strongest jutsu when they truly believe they're going to defeat their opponent.

It seems easier to Itachi to fake it and pretend Sasuke broke it, then for him to take a chance against Sasuke actually breaking it.

Think about all of the other jutsu he used in the battle:

Katon was countered by Amaterasu

Shurikens countered by clones

Tai countered by superior Tai

Kirin countered by Susanoo

Orochimaru countered by Yata/Totsuka

come on man, you mean to tell me Sasuke had something to fight off Tsuku?

 

[Glad Of War]

Itachi lied almost everything about him to Sasuke, so there's a likelihood he wasn't being truthful concerning the workings of Tsukuyomi.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

I think Kishi wanted to masterfully craft a fight to the point where we would be unable to differentiate when and where Itachi held back. And he did an excellent job at it.

The thing is, we cant say here is where Itachi held back. All we know for sure is that he purposely did. My thing is, if he had to hold back at some point during the fight, it would be when he used his most powerful jutsu.

This is all speculative of course, but if Tsukuyomi could truly have been broken by Sasuk, i dont think Itachi would've used it at all.

The series has shown that people whip out their strongest jutsu when they truly believe they're going to defeat their opponent.

It seems easier to Itachi to fake it and pretend Sasuke broke it, then for him to take a chance against Sasuke actually breaking it.

Think about all of the other jutsu he used in the battle:

Katon was countered by Amaterasu

Shurikens countered by clones

Tai countered by superior Tai

Kirin countered by Susanoo

Orochimaru countered by Yata/Totsuka

come on man, you mean to tell me Sasuke had something to fight off Tsuku?

According to what was said earlier in the manga he in fact did have something to fight off tsuki. I get what your saying though, so your thinking he might of used a diff genjutsu to make it seem like tsuki? See but wouldn’t it make sense that sasuke COULD break it
Though? Being his brother, Indra incarnate, yada yada lol

 

[SumnNarutoRelated]

According to what was said earlier in the manga he in fact did have something to fight off tsuki. I get what your saying though, so your thinking he might of used a diff genjutsu to make it seem like tsuki? See but wouldn’t it make sense that sasuke COULD break it
Though? Being his brother, Indra incarnate, yada yada lol

not exactly a different gen, just that he held back with his Tskuyomi is all.

i get the indra reference as that could lead to a possible theory as to why he would break it, but Sasuke being a reincarnate never really played a role in any other battle besides VOTE 2 of course

 

[SeveN797]

I think Kishi wanted to masterfully craft a fight to the point where we would be unable to differentiate when and where Itachi held back. And he did an excellent job at it.

The thing is, we cant say here is where Itachi held back. All we know for sure is that he purposely did. My thing is, if he had to hold back at some point during the fight, it would be when he used his most powerful jutsu.

This is all speculative of course, but if Tsukuyomi could truly have been broken by Sasuk, i dont think Itachi would've used it at all.

The series has shown that people whip out their strongest jutsu when they truly believe they're going to defeat their opponent.

It seems easier to Itachi to fake it and pretend Sasuke broke it, then for him to take a chance against Sasuke actually breaking it.

Think about all of the other jutsu he used in the battle:

Katon was countered by Amaterasu

Shurikens countered by clones

Tai countered by superior Tai

Kirin countered by Susanoo

Orochimaru countered by Yata/Totsuka

come on man, you mean to tell me Sasuke had something to fight off Tsuku?

Tsukuyomi was his most powerful genjutsu, not jutsu.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Funny, did Itachi hold back amaterasu? He didn't either

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

He didn't cancel it at the moment Sasuke got hit, but only after it consumed half of his body(which would result in death if not for Oro's jutsu) upper half had to survive in order to take eyes.

 

[chopstickchakra]

In some ways it actually is the same. and how do you know it wasn't 100%? that's speculation.

I was going off of your post, you said "Yes itachi held back in the fight," so my posts afterwards operate under the assumption you presented. Itachi holding back would mean he wasn't putting everything into his attacks. I'm not gonna argue if it's the same just end with this, if I beat an 80 year old Wayne Gretzky I'd look foolish to walk around saying I beat THE Wayne Gretzky you know what I mean, yeah I can say it but once explanations come about people won't hold it in as high esteem.

 

[Master Omi]

That’s like saying having to mold chakra to use a jutsu is a weakness. And yea I dunno. That seems like a stretch, sasuke didn’t listen to anybody when it came to itachi so I don’t see why that would of mattered at all. It makes more sense he was telling kakashi cause they personally know each other, plus back in pt1 kishi was very “in depth” with his jutsu. It would of had the same effect had he just told kakashi it was unbreakable at all

The activation conditions of ocular genjutsu is a weakness, people like Gai can completely avoid it. If he told Kakashi it was unbreakable, Kakashi wouldn't have believed Sasuke could beat him, provided Itachi did put Sasuke in Tsukuyomi.

 

[kiiro]

Bro, the databook puts a "?" in that passage. DB is not sure whether he broke it or not.

Besides look at this scan

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Tobi says Sasuke didnt break tsukuyomi and regular genjutsu. He didnt see through.


The part 1 itachi quote is a lie because,

- Tobi says Sasuke didnt break it.

- BZ says this genjutsu is one of the strongest in the same fight.

- Itachi wasnt even trying to hurt sasuke, he just wanted him to believe it.

- Itachi has been guilty of lying on several occasions.

1) He said jiraiya can beat both itachi and kisame and tie with more akatsuki added to the equation which was a facade to protect the leaf.


2) databook says Itachi was fooling akatsuki by going after naruto when he just wanted to visit sasuke.


3) He said Madara forcefully took Izuna's eyes which are false.

He taunted sasuke several times to kill a friend to achieve ms which is wrong: only emotional trauma is needed.


He said madara is invincible immortal which wrong because madara can die like any other human, he has a history of being defeated by hashirama: even though barely.

Basically the part 1 statement was a lie to give sasuke hope to prepare kill him.


How can "blood" break something which can control time-space and matter indefinitiely?

Makes no sense.


Sasuke had curse seal chakra, the so-called "blood" and indra's spirit in him to help him break the genjutsu but he still couldnt.


It's hilarious tho, someone like Ao saw through Obito's jinchuuriki genjutsu and saw through Kotoamatsukami in summit yet said his visual prowess and sensory skills cant see through Itachi's Illusions.


Shikaku on the other hand thought Itachi was controlling the alliance(even though he was literally dead at that time), which means Itachi's caliber can accomplish controlling that many individuals per Shikaku.

Nice everything except the last part where yu mention Shukaku, Ao denied he could control that much.

 

[kiiro]

Yes, Sasuke did not break the genjutsu.

 

[King Of Pop]

I was going off of your post, you said "Yes itachi held back in the fight," so my posts afterwards operate under the assumption you presented. Itachi holding back would mean he wasn't putting everything into his attacks. I'm not gonna argue if it's the same just end with this, if I beat an 80 year old Wayne Gretzky I'd look foolish to walk around saying I beat THE Wayne Gretzky you know what I mean, yeah I can say it but once explanations come about people won't hold it in as high esteem.

I meant he held back as in not going for the kill in general. I didn't mean it to be tsukuyomi specifically. Itachi simply didn't finish off sasuke the instance he trapped him but that doesn't mean the tsukuyomi was weak in itself, not sure anything alludes to that. What we do know is that it was broken

 

[Master Omi]

There was a good theory out there on another website about why Sasuke didn't break Tsukuyomi:

Spoiler

Itachi was unmistakably a genjutsu master, but how good was he, really? Let's go back to the Itachi vs Sasuke fight. Sasuke notices a pattern and says this about Itachi: "The exact same words as before, as well as crows, starting out with your favorite genjutsu farce, eh":

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

The pattern Sasuke notices is that Itachi has a habit, when Itachi says "Sasuke, you've gotten stronger", Sasuke is in a genjutsu. So what's the point of me saying this? It's what Itachi says after he blocked Kirin with Susanoo: "You really have gotten stronger Sasuke." What I'm getting at is Sasuke was still in genjutsu, when Susanoo blocked Kirin:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Tobi said that Itachi planned out the contingencies for his fight with Sasuke, but how would he be able to make sure Sasuke did what he wanted? The answer is hypnotic genjutsu. You might be thinking that's impossible, because Sasuke broke out of his strongest genjutsu, Tsukuyomi, but did Sasuke really break it? It's true that Itachi said Tsukuyomi could be broken by the sharingan, but you should keep 2 things in mind: if Tsukuyomi actually couldn't be broken by 3 Tomoe would Itachi actually tell Kakashi that? Itachi wanted to make it believable that he was killed by Sasuke, if Tsukuyomi couldn't be broken by Sasuke, that would cast doubt on Sasuke's ability to beat him. The second thing to keep in mind is Itachi is a liar, as I mentioned above Itachi had reason to lie.

 

[itachi4real]

Sasuke can break it...he did in the fight against itachi but it was allowed. If itachi wanted he couldve end the fight in ten seconds. Itachi was playin with him. Imo its stronger than KA. Only thing KA does is control the person. Ill take tsukuyomi over KA anyday. But sasuke Can break tsukuyomi only if it is ALLOWED BY itachi.

Ms and above sasuke can break it

DMS obito can break it (not 1ms obito). Off topic: Two ms are better than one. Which is why i always believed itachi beats 1ms obito 10/10

hashi and ms and above madara can imo

 

[The Paradox]

Sasuke is a reincarnate of Indra.. his chakra and eyes are not ordinary. Of course he broke out of it.