Sun and Moon Seals Plot Devices??

[GetsugaTenshou]

For those saying Hagoromo genjutsu'd Kaguya then used the CT on his own. The DB explicitly states that

Spoiler

"Chibaku Tensei" is the version that can be used by a single individual, while "Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" is a more powerful version that requires two individuals simultaneously combining the power of Yin and Yang. It turns the sealing target into a gravity core in the sky, which attracts chunks of earth that bury them alive

Before anyone says "what if Hagoromo used regular CT", the DB also says

Spoiler

The section in the bottom left describes how the moon was the result of Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, and that so much chakra was contained within that it turned into a gigantic satellite

Kaguya (in the form of the Gedo Mazo) was sealed inside the moon, making it clear that Six Paths CT was indeed the technique used.

The manga also portrays this pretty clearly and I'm pretty sure Hamura wasn't just tapping his mother's shoulder so he wouldn't feel left out

See manga scan below

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Animegoin]

For those saying Hagoromo genjutsu'd Kaguya then used the CT on his own. The DB explicitly states that

Spoiler

"Chibaku Tensei" is the version that can be used by a single individual, while "Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" is a more powerful version that requires two individuals simultaneously combining the power of Yin and Yang. It turns the sealing target into a gravity core in the sky, which attracts chunks of earth that bury them alive

The manga also portrays this pretty clearly and I'm pretty sure Hamura wasn't just tapping his mother's shoulder so he wouldn't feel left out

You must be registered for see images

Bruh, the sheer fact that Hagoromo had/has both of the seals himself means that he could do it by himself.

 

[GetsugaTenshou]

Bruh, the sheer fact that Hagoromo had/has both of the seals himself means that he could do it by himself.

I've given you solid facts though. The DB explicitly says it requires two individuals. It doesn't say anything like "Hagoromo was however able to do it on his own". Idk how Hagoromo ended up with both seals, but the DB explicitly states it requires two individuals and the manga clearly portrays both Hamura and Hagoromo stretching their arms out to seal her. Hagoromo needed Hamura's help, otherwise he wouldn't allow Hamura tag along in a life threatening battle just to make up the numbers

 

[Animegoin]

I've given you solid facts though. The DB explicitly says it requires two individuals. It doesn't say anything like "Hagoromo was however able to do it on his own". Idk how Hagoromo ended up with both seals, but the DB explicitly states it requires two individuals and the manga clearly portrays both Hamura and Hagoromo stretching their arms out to seal her.

It doesn’t say anything like that because Hagoromo never battled Kaguya again. I’ve also given you facts such as this: Naruto and sasuke receivied their abilities from Hagoromo ALONE. Consequently, Hagoromo alone could do it.

 

[GetsugaTenshou]

It doesn’t say anything like that because Hagoromo never battled Kaguya again. I’ve also given you facts such as this: Naruto and sasuke receivied their abilities from Hagoromo ALONE. Consequently, Hagoromo alone could do it.

Why would it matter if Hagoromo never battled Kaguya again if according to you, he also did it alone the first time. Naruto and Sasuke are irrelevant to this because again, it's perfectly clear that Hagoromo and Hamura sealed Kaguya together. Otherwise, why would Hamura be stretching his hand out as well, and why would Hagoromo allow Hamura tag along if it wasn't necessary and he could do it himself

 

[UnderTheRedHood]

<div class="bbWrapper"><blockquote class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-title"> <a href="/goto/post?id=21694663" class="bbCodeBlock-sourceJump" data-xf-click="attribution" data-content-selector="#post-21694663">Animegoin said:</a> </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent"> So you’re saying that Hagoromo possibly gave Hamura the seal? </div> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandLink"><a>Click to expand...</a></div> </div> </blockquote>Yeah, same way he did to Naruto and Sasuke</div>

 

[ROHAN]

Plothole unless it's explained in the Boruto Series.

 

[Animegoin]

Why would it matter if Hagoromo never battled Kaguya again if according to you, he also did it alone the first time. Naruto and Sasuke are irrelevant to this because again, it's perfectly clear that Hagoromo and Hamura sealed Kaguya together. Otherwise, why would Hamura be stretching his hand out as well, and why would Hagoromo allow Hamura tag along if it wasn't necessary and he could do it himself

I explained that in my other thread already. Albeit, I used portions from the anime to clarify it better but that’s frowned upon despite it making absolute sense.

 

[GetsugaTenshou]

I explained that in my other thread already. Albeit, I used portions from the anime to clarify it better but that’s frowned upon despite it making absolute sense.

That's because no matter how much it makes sense, the anime isn't relevant to the canon timeline and it isn't the portrayal intended by the actual mangaka

 

[Ansatsuken]

SORRY for a late reply, I just falls asleep for a while.

Lmfao all that and you still didn’t say where I was twisting facts. Hmm, I wonder why.

Moving along…

The only thing that makes sense is that Hagoromo didn’t actually use a sealing technique, I believe he used a standard Chibaku tensei with a Rinnegan genjutsu to paralyze Kaguya And trap her. Similar to what Sasuke’s rinnegan did to the tailed beasts when he put them in a gen juts and trapped them in their own individual chibaku tensei’s.

^^^^^^^
This is you trying to twist a fact. Or creating a set of logic/belief.

And my reply is to put it back in order.

Lmfao NO Justus existed at the time aside from those granted by the Kekkai Mora and those taught by Toads. I can tell your intelligence from your speech pattern. “His eyes is not similar to Sasuke’s single 6 tomoe Rinnegan eye.” Lmfao you’re right, his eyes are more powerful and can encompass far more feats than Sasuke’s can. Know how I know? It’s Kekkei mora that Hagoromo allowed Sasuke to have. Also, what proof do you have that Hagoromo was unable to cast genjutsu? I’ll wait on that flat earth theory.

You know that you only pulling out a vague statement there without you knowing what actually the thing really is.

Okay tell me what is Kekkei Mora? And what kind of moveset that KKM Rinnegan has? I demand a detail of it.

If you say because of KKM the eyes can have any powers why we never saw Rinn-Sharingan performing a feats similar to Rinnegan?

What is KKM Rinn-Sharingan power?
1) Amenominaka
2) Infinite Tsukuyomi
3) Yomotsu Hirasaka

Those are the feat displayed by Kekkei Mora Rinn-Sharingan. So no Rinnegan feats there. Thus what makes you believe that KKM Rinnegan can give all kind of power outside of Six Path tech?

Every eyes in NV has its own set of power standard to that eyes.

Normal Rinnegan(Hagoromo and Madara's eyes) have similar Six Path power as the basis of it. Nagato already shown what it looks like. Nagato created his own tech from all the paths(Databook stated that all the techniques Nagato used are exclusive to Nagato only). Madara, Sasuke and Hagoromo can replicate the similar Rinnegan capabilities that Nagato has used but it will be different in approach and style taken by them depending on the mastery level of the users. So KKM will not giving Hagoromo anything beyond the standard capability of Rinnegan. What Hagoromo will have from this kind of special blood/chakra is more powerful, high quality, much stronger set of Six Path techniques. More bigger and powerful CT, Extra range and stronger force of ST/BT among others. But he will not having any Genjutsu power because Rinnegan is not known for having that kind of ability but Rinn-Sharingan has. While Rinn-Sharingan doesn't have any Rinnegan Path power.

The differences is clearly showing in the manga so there should be no doubt about it. KKM will not magically granted any power outside of the eyes standard power. And while many types of Ganjutsu can be created but Eye type Genjutsu always born naturally and Rinnegan user never born with Genjutsu power.

Lmfao bruh, how the hell would you possibly know what her eyes would like in a genjutsu if she has a Kekkei Mora pair of eyes? It’s never been shown what would happen to her primary eyes so you saying that is a theory within itself. XD Not to mention that if she isn’t in a genjutsu like trance, why wasn’t she flailing around? She was perfectly still both times just like the tailed beasts in Sasuke’s genjutsu. Lmfao NEXT.

I already give you an example there. Cant you look at it, analyze it and understand?

Moon and Sun seals are not Genjutsu based seals. This seals capability is blocking Rinn-Sharingan power so Kaguya will unable to use it again. And KKM will not make any differences. What Genjutsu need for it to work is a flow of chakra inside a body. And Kaguya could possibly resist or immune to Genjutsu is not because of her KKM specific trait but she is high level Genjutsu user.

And if you get caught by Sasuke level Genjutsu aka Rinnegan Genjutsu your eyes will start turning into the caster eyes in looks. So in Kaguya case her Byakugan eyes or all of her eyes shouldbchange into Rinnegan like eyes. But it never happened.

And when something happens in the manga the manga panel will shows you what actually happen and it will focusing on the overall situation. But here manga panels only focusing on Kaguya's forehead eye(the situation). So the seals did nothing to her Byakugan eyes.


Lol how shallow is your thinking? The seal was effecting her entire body, locking and blocking her power, and slowly deforming her body. How hard for you to understand it?

Lmfao yeah totally, except Hamura and Hagoromo didn’t have the seals. Which means that Hagoromo manually turned Kaguya to the core of the Chibaku Tensei, placed her under a genjutsu which subsequently displayed as the yin/yang symbol on her third eye.

They already have invented those seal back then. Kishi put an emphasis towards the parallel moment there. It clearly tells you that both Hagoromo and Hamura placed a seal on Juubi/Kaguya's body.

And that is not a Genjutsu.

Lmfao whatever you tell yourself, you acted like a coward there and tried here. You got what was coming. Oh yeah and the discussion of this thread is about “how did Hagoromo come up with the plan to seal Kaguya.” You still haven’t given your answer so you go ahead as you reply to this. Lmfao

WHATEVER.

 

[Animegoin]

SORRY for a late reply, I just falls asleep for a while.

I bet.

^^^^^^^
This is you trying to twist a fact. Or creating a set of logic/belief.

And my reply is to put it back in order.

That’s still not twisting facts, you dunce. Lmfao just as I told you earlier when I emphasized my usage of the phrase, “I believe” which is what differentiates it from fact and makes it a theory.

You know that you only pulling out a vague statement there without you knowing what actually the thing really is.

Okay tell me what is Kekkei Mora? And what kind of moveset that KKM Rinnegan has? I demand a detail of it.

If you say because of KKM the eyes can have any powers why we never saw Rinn-Sharingan performing a feats similar to Rinnegan?

What is KKM Rinn-Sharingan power?
1) Amenominaka
2) Infinite Tsukuyomi
3) Yomotsu Hirasaka

Those are the feat displayed by Kekkei Mora Rinn-Sharingan. So no Rinnegan feats there. Thus what makes you believe that KKM Rinnegan can give all kind of power outside of Six Path tech?

Lmfao bruh, really with the rhetorical questions? So in regards to the fact that exposed your BS by informing you that no jutsu existed outside of the Doujutsu and that of the Sage at time, we’re just going to brush pass that? Got it, moving on. The idiocy displayed by you here is staggering. From what was displayed in the anime and manga, Hagoromo’s rinnegan allowed him to transmigrate through time and space. It also allowed him to use Yin-yang release to create the tailed beasts. Lmfao moving on…

Every eyes in NV has its own set of power standard to that eyes.

Normal Rinnegan(Hagoromo and Madara's eyes) have similar Six Path power as the basis of it. Nagato already shown what it looks like. Nagato created his own tech from all the paths(Databook stated that all the techniques Nagato used are exclusive to Nagato only). Madara, Sasuke and Hagoromo can replicate the similar Rinnegan capabilities that Nagato has used but it will be different in approach and style taken by them depending on the mastery level of the users.

*Screech* Hold up, prove that Sasuke can use all of the six paths. Until then though, moving on.

So KKM will not giving Hagoromo anything beyond the standard capability of Rinnegan. What Hagoromo will have from this kind of special blood/chakra is more powerful, high quality, much stronger set of Six Path techniques. More bigger and powerful CT, Extra range and stronger force of ST/BT among others. But he will not having any Genjutsu power because Rinnegan is not known for having that kind of ability but Rinn-Sharingan has. While Rinn-Sharingan doesn't have any Rinnegan Path power.

Sounds like an ass pull to me, boys. Do you even hear yourself? Honestly, Sasuke all of a sudden obtained power that the Sage of Six Paths (the guy who gave him HALF of his overall power - and I don’t even think he gave his 50% to be honest) can’t obtain nor utilize. Actually, you sound as equally inconceivable as you saying that Hagoromo can’t use ‘six paths chibaku tensei’ by himself despite him being the one who gave it to both, Naruto and Sasuke. Moving on though.

The differences is clearly showing in the manga so there should be no doubt about it. KKM will not magically granted any power outside of the eyes standard power. And while many types of Ganjutsu can be created but Eye type Genjutsu always born naturally and Rinnegan user never born with Genjutsu power.

LMFAO check this out; so using your logic, it’s foolish to assume that Madara and Hagoromo’s rinnegan are the same, right? But that hasn’t stopped you from making that assumption. I mean, ask yourself, would the Tailed Beasts had been afraid of Momoshiki with his rinnegan hands as they were of Madara with one rinnegan? Also, how can you prove that the Rinnegan users were never born with Genjutsu abilities? Lmfao flat-earth theory galore.

I already give you an example there. Cant you look at it, analyze it and understand?

Moon and Sun seals are not Genjutsu based seals. This seals capability is blocking Rinn-Sharingan power so Kaguya will unable to use it again. And KKM will not make any differences. What Genjutsu need for it to work is a flow of chakra inside a body. And Kaguya could possibly resist or immune to Genjutsu is not because of her KKM specific trait but she is high level Genjutsu user.

Lmfao, see and there it is. “Kaguya could POSSIBLY resist or be immune to genjutsu.” More assumptions and no facts. Smh Hypocrites, bro…Next!

And if you get caught by Sasuke level Genjutsu aka Rinnegan Genjutsu your eyes will start turning into the caster eyes in looks. So in Kaguya case her Byakugan eyes or all of her eyes shouldbchange into Rinnegan like eyes. But it never happened.

And when something happens in the manga the manga panel will shows you what actually happen and it will focusing on the overall situation. But here manga panels only focusing on Kaguya's forehead eye(the situation). So the seals did nothing to her Byakugan eyes.

I already explained that in my last reply lmfao. Next!

Lol how shallow is your thinking? The seal was effecting her entire body, locking and blocking her power, and slowly deforming her body. How hard for you to understand it?

Lmfao how shallow is your thinking? So the first time when Hamura and Hagoromo didn’t even have a seal on their palms when they sealed Kaguya, the seal was there somehow restricting her movements? Lmfao alright.

They already have invented those seal back then. Kishi put an emphasis towards the parallel moment there. It clearly tells you that both Hagoromo and Hamura placed a seal on Juubi/Kaguya's body.

Hagoromo showed the parallels there to add emphasis to ending of Kaguya. Gtfo lol

And that is not a Genjutsu.

Sure thing, boss. You go ahead and take care what’s mentioned above.

WHATEVER.

Ugh, gosh. Same.

 

[salamander uchiha]

For those saying Hagoromo genjutsu'd Kaguya then used the CT on his own. The DB explicitly states that

Spoiler

"Chibaku Tensei" is the version that can be used by a single individual, while "Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" is a more powerful version that requires two individuals simultaneously combining the power of Yin and Yang. It turns the sealing target into a gravity core in the sky, which attracts chunks of earth that bury them alive

Before anyone says "what if Hagoromo used regular CT", the DB also says

Spoiler

The section in the bottom left describes how the moon was the result of Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, and that so much chakra was contained within that it turned into a gigantic satellite

Kaguya (in the form of the Gedo Mazo) was sealed inside the moon, making it clear that Six Paths CT was indeed the technique used.

The manga also portrays this pretty clearly and I'm pretty sure Hamura wasn't just tapping his mother's shoulder so he wouldn't feel left out

See manga scan below

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

This is actually a misunderstanding it was Hogaromo who used the Chibaku Tensei. In the original fight the 2 borthers sealed the Rinne Sharingan of Kaguya. He became the host to the Jyubi until he created the tailed beasts from its chakra. He still had the mezo inside which was keeping him alive until he sealed it away. You have to remember at this point Hogarono was a KKM weilder his powers were on a different scale to everyone's save Kaguya.

In Sasuke and Naruto's fight against Kaguya the two use the seals sealing her Rinne sharingan the seals return to Hogaromo and he forms the seal for the chibaku tensei, Hogarono ghost uses the chibaku tensei, and seperates the tailed beasts from her once again. The databook entries merely emphasise the level of power needed but a KKM user transcends those norms.

OT: Hogaromo and Hamura inherited chakra from their mother they obviously knew about chakra. They would've seen her using it and would've been aware of their own. She may have even taught them how to use chakra there aren't any real issues in this aspect as there exist numerous ways for them to have learnt it.

As for the seals they originate from the Yin Yang style as all non elemental jutsu originate from these styles. The difference is they're enhanced by rokudo chakra to a level where they can seal the originator of this power (rinne sharingan). Hogaromo probably knew how the rinne sharingan works and what method would be best to seal it's power.

He probably passed the yin seal onto Hamura like he did to Naruto and Sasuke. At that time he would've needed Hamura's rokudo senjutsu to assist him since he wasn't the Jyubi Jin then therefore lacked the KKM power level.

 

[GetsugaTenshou]

This is actually a misunderstanding it was Hogaromo who used the Chibaku Tensei. In the original fight the 2 borthers sealed the Rinne Sharingan of Kaguya. He became the host to the Jyubi until he created the tailed beasts from its chakra. He still had the mezo inside which was keeping him alive until he sealed it away. You have to remember at this point Hogarono was a KKM weilder his powers were on a different scale to everyone's save Kaguya.

I don't think so. The Bijuu were sealed in Hagoromo but the body of the Juubi (the husk) was used as the core for CT and became the moon, all Hagoromo did was separate the chakra from the husk. I don't think the husk was ever sealed inside Hagoromo. The wiki also seems to agree with this notion

Spoiler

The battle ended with Hagoromo and Hamura sealing the beast's chakra within the former's body while using its husk as the core of Six Paths — Chibaku Tensei, creating a celestial body that would become known as the moon

The manga also says Kaguya was sealed by the both of them, and the Juubi itself (the husk) was the core of the sealing technique. Hagoromo had the chakra, but the husk was always in the moon.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[salamander uchiha]

I don't think so. The Bijuu were sealed in Hagoromo but the body of the Juubi (the husk) was used as the core for CT and became the moon, all Hagoromo did was separate the chakra from the husk. I don't think the husk was ever sealed inside Hagoromo. The wiki also seems to agree with this notion

Spoiler

The battle ended with Hagoromo and Hamura sealing the beast's chakra within the former's body while using its husk as the core of Six Paths — Chibaku Tensei, creating a celestial body that would become known as the moon

The manga also says Kaguya was sealed by the both of them, and the Juubi itself (the husk) was the core of the sealing technique. Hagoromo had the chakra, but the husk was always in the moon.

Spoiler

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That's an error in understanding of ignore the wiki, here are the manga panels confirming the contrary.

Spoiler

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You see its clear he still had the husk within him. The scan you present confirms the sealing of Kaguya which they did. Remember when Sasuke and Naruto sealed her rinne sharingan she started to revert back to the Jyubi. That's what was sealed in Hogaromo in other words Kaguya's will and power was locked away leaving the Jyubi.

Spoiler

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When Hogaromo tells the story to Naruto he tells him about the Jyubi that his brother and he fought and sealed inside of him. This further confirms that Kaguya was sealed away by the seals leaving only the Jyubi body to be sealed in Hogaromo.

 

[GetsugaTenshou]

That's an error in understanding of ignore the wiki, here are the manga panels confirming the contrary.

Spoiler

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You must be registered for see images

You see its clear he still had the husk within him. The scan you present confirms the sealing of Kaguya which they did. Remember when Sasuke and Naruto sealed her rinne sharingan she started to revert back to the Jyubi. That's what was sealed in Hogaromo in other words Kaguya's will and power was locked away leaving the Jyubi.

Spoiler

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Wen Hogaromo tells the story to Naruto he tells him about the Jyubi that his brother and he fought and sealed inside of him. This further confirms that Kaguya was sealed away by the seals leaving only the Jyubi body to be sealed in Hogaromo.

Yeah, and the scan's referring to the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei. The DB also pretty much states they used CT together

Spoiler

"Chibaku Tensei / Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" has a single entry, and lists "Naruto and Sasuke, Hagoromo and Hamura" as its users.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Yeah, and the scan's referring to the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei. The DB also pretty much states they used CT together

Spoiler

"Chibaku Tensei / Six Paths Chibaku Tensei" has a single entry, and lists "Naruto and Sasuke, Hagoromo and Hamura" as its users.

Are you going to ifnore clear cut manga evidence? A direct statement confirming the husk was inside the sage of 6 paths alongside the tailed beasts, in other words the entire Jyubi. The databook entry you presnt itslef is to vague. It is possible elderly Hogaromo had help from Hamura to seal the mezo after he seperated the tailed beasts from himself. It could equally mean that Hamura too could use the chibaku tensei. Anyway the Chibaku tensei was used by the sage the second time it's evidenced in the manga.

The scan from the manga is a summarised version being told by BZ and it doesnt overule clear cut facts such as the Husk still being in Hogaromo. The onky canon thing from it is that we know Kaguya's rinne sharingan was sealed and she revwrted back into the Jyubi.

 

[GetsugaTenshou]

Are you going to ifnore clear cut manga evidence? A direct statement confirming the husk was inside the sage of 6 paths alongside the tailed beasts, in other words the entire Jyubi. The databook entry you presnt itslef is to vague. It is possible elderly Hogaromo had help from Hamura to seal the mezo after he seperated the tailed beasts from himself. Anyway the Chibaku tensei was used by the sage the second time it's evidenced in the manga.

I'm not ignoring clear cut manga evidence, the manga also contradicts itself with the scan referring to the CT

 

[salamander uchiha]

I'm not ignoring clear cut manga evidence, the manga also contradicts itself with the scan referring to the CT

I've edited my previous post re-read it.

It doesn't contradict itself, BZ is giving a summarised version with pieces of information. We know its canon that the Husk was in Hogaromo that's not even up for debate. Therefore BZ's statement in light of that means he's referrring to Kaguya's will being sealed away. I've edited my previous post so do go over it.

 

[GetsugaTenshou]

I've edited my previous post re-read it.

It doesn't contradict itself, BZ is giving a summarised version with pieces of information. We know its canon that the Husk was in Hogaromo that's not even up for debate. Therefore BZ's statement in light of that means he's referrring to Kaguya's will being sealed away. I've edited my previous post so do go over it.

BZ says Kaguya was sealed by the both of them and then states that it was a very powerful seal, the panel where he says that shows Naruto and Sasuke's hands stretched out with the sun and moon seals (which are used for the technique). So clearly, he was talking about the Chibaku Tensei.

More importantly, the Databook which covers the entirety of the Kaguya arc up until right before the final fight between Naruto and Sasuke makes it clear that Hagoromo and Hamura used the technique together.

Spoiler

The Ōtsutsuki brothers fighting an incarnation of the Divine Tree, Ten Tails. In truth, they were also doing battle with their mother.
The twins, assuming that Ten Tails was an incarnation of the Divine Tree, and that it had attacked them to recover the Chakra from its stolen fruit, met it head on. After a desperate struggle, they invoked Six Paths Planetary Construction

 

[Yahcob13]

That's why he's known as the Sage of Six Paths