EMS Sasuke does NOT have Perfect Susanoo.

[SeveN797]

Both Sasuke and Madara had Kyuubi on their side at this point. It was the most logical decision to merge PS with Kyuubi instead using PS alone since obviously Kyuubi + PS > PS by itself.

Also about swords, Madara's v3 and v4 has this curved swords

Spoiler

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Madara's PS swords :

Spoiler

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Now Sasuke's v3 legged susanoo was actually using it's arrows as the sword

Spoiler

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I thought everyone known that.


Sasuke's PS swords :

Spoiler

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[HowDidIGetPrem]

Both Sasuke and Madara had Kyuubi on their side at this point. It was the most logical decision to merge PS with Kyuubi instead using PS alone since obviously Kyuubi + PS > PS by itself.

Explain him using V4 at all. Again. This all(aside from Sasuke's sword and the arrows mention) rests on the merging being a product of PS alongside Kurama and not the result of Kurama's influence on Susanoo(which there is clearly enough of to alter the shape drastically). For the arrows mention, I simply believe it's both, look at the fact that it's held by two hands. That aside, Sasuke has used a weapon with the sole purpose of being a sword

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[SeveN797]

Explain him using V4 at all. Again. This all(aside from Sasuke's sword and the arrows mention) rests on the merging being a product of PS alongside Kurama and not the result of Kurama's influence on Susanoo(which there is clearly enough of to alter the shape drastically). For the arrows mention, I simply believe it's both, look at the fact that it's held by two hands. That aside, Sasuke has used a weapon with the sole purpose of being a sword

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What there is to explain tho? He used v4 to block bijuudama since activating susanoo(all versions except PS) is nearly instant but merging it with Kurama takes some time. He first needed to block that, after that Madara had few options, either he keep using V4, boost it to PS or merge PS with Kurama to produce the strongest form.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

What there is to explain tho? He used v4 to block bijuudama since activating susanoo(all versions except PS) is nearly instant but merging it with Kurama takes some time. He first needed to block that, after that Madara had few options, either he keep using V4, boost it to PS or merge PS with Kurama to produce the strongest form.

He could've blocked it with PS or entered battle with PS. But putting all this extra stuff aside, regardless of what he did or didn't, this all comes down to the question of whether Madara's merger was the result of PS and Kurama or Kurama's influence on Madara's Susanoo. There is nothing at all to suggest EMS Madara had PS aside from the merger, so it cannot be pointed at as evidence of Madara having PS before the merge. With that being said, there is all the evidence that Kurama has drastic influences on Susanoo.

 

[salamander uchiha]

page 233
Magical garb Susano'o (Iso Susano'o)*
Ninjutsu kekke genkai close range supplementary*
Users: Uchiha Madara/Uchiha Sasuke*
Turbulent God, dressed into the gold impregnable armor (likely some kind of mythological armor)!*

This jutsu is 9-tailed fox (kuuybi no yoko), sheathed(armored) in clad "Susano'o" armor. Gallantly using weapons that "Susano'o" carry in its front paws(hands),just like the fangs of the predator...!!It also combines the absolute defense and attack power of the "Susano'o" and 9-tails, this jutsu allows the user perfectly utilize different abilities of both (9-tails and Susano'o).*
Picture:defense ,that had been invented by Uchiha Madara s "doujutsu" against Hashirama.

4th databook quote on the attire Susanoo, it doesn't refer to it as PS. There may be some truth to parts of OP's post.

Ok,so it is now pretty clear that neither Sasuke nor Madara used Absolute/Complete Susano'o in their battles against obito/Hashirama. It's was just "Susno'o" wrapped around 9-tails. Likely 9-tails physical power allowed to slash that mountains,as Susano'o is only a garb/armor in this jutsu.

Opinion of translator.

 

[Uverdore9]

4th databook quote on the attire Susanoo, it doesn't refer to it as PS. There may be some truth to parts of OP's post.


Opinion of translator.

Viz translation ****ed this up. Madara himself said "hashirama destroyed susanoo's armor" but viz translated it as perfect susanoo to overhype hashirama.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Viz translation ****ed this up. Madara himself said "hashirama destroyed susanoo's armor" but viz translated it as perfect susanoo to overhype hashirama.

Why would that hype up Hashirama since the Susanoo covering Kurama wasn't even a solid mass like PS. If anything it was just a layer of armour on topp of semi solid structure which would be far weaker by default.

 

[Uverdore9]

Why would that hype up Hashirama since the Susanoo covering Kurama wasn't even a solid mass like PS. If anything it was just a layer of armour on topp of semi solid structure which would be far weaker by default.

People claimed hashirama can destroy PS with SS. Which is clearly impossible considering all of its hands were broken after striking its armor.

 

[SeveN797]

He could've blocked it with PS or entered battle with PS. But putting all this extra stuff aside, regardless of what he did or didn't, this all comes down to the question of whether Madara's merger was the result of PS and Kurama or Kurama's influence on Madara's Susanoo. There is nothing at all to suggest EMS Madara had PS aside from the merger, so it cannot be pointed at as evidence of Madara having PS before the merge. With that being said, there is all the evidence that Kurama has drastic influences on Susanoo.

Sure he could have used PS first, but you know that's not how the fights look like. You start with taijutsu/kenjutsu and smaller scale ninjutsu, then Madara summoned Kyuubi, Hashirama answered with mokuton first and then golem, Madara went all out and used PS on Kurama, so did Hashirama after a while and brought SS.


4th databook translations of PS :

Complete( literally full body)Susano'o

Ninjutsu,all ranges,kekke-genkai,offensive,defensive.
Users: Uchiha Madara
Eternity reigns within these pupils,allowing to shape the bravery into clad blue!


The power of the "Mangekyo Sharingan" is able to activate incredible ninjutsu.Enormous chakra clad jutsu materialize, towering over the mountains( exceeding the height of the mountains), taking authority over battlefield to its hands(changing the flow of battle).Appearance of the complete jutsu differs in accordance to the user.Moreover for users that are good at ninjutsu "Susano'o"themselves,becomes possible to enter/trigger the invocation of the complete body(kanseitai).Furthermore Susano'o in next form can wear special armor which can shape/turn on wings that allow it to fly.
Picture: the great complete Susano'o cutting strength that can cut-off mountain peaks,is easily enough to shut down even iron hard resistance (or is enough to make even iron-hard enemies to forfeit the battle).

Susanoo regardless of the form doesn't have to do anything with Rinnegan or rikudou chakra, it's strictly sharingan ability. It was needed for Kakashi since he only had MS.
Databook says "The power of the "Mangekyo Sharingan" which is kinda true because susanoo is MS jutsu after all, it's just that using it with MS is inflicting great pain on the user eyes and body and it intensifies with every stronger version. Theoretically people with MS should be able to use PS aswell, but I can imagine their eyes would explode few seconds after from all the pain and pressure. EMS improves all of the already existing MS powers, grants better chakra control, remove limits etc. it makes sense that only after getting it, you're allowed to stabilize the strongest version of Susanoo.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Susanoo regardless of the form doesn't have to do anything with Rinnegan or rikudou chakra, it's strictly sharingan ability. It was needed for Kakashi since he only had MS.
Databook says "The power of the "Mangekyo Sharingan" which is kinda true because susanoo is MS jutsu after all, it's just that using it with MS is inflicting great pain on the user eyes and body and it intensifies with every stronger version. Theoretically people with MS should be able to use PS aswell, but I can imagine their eyes would explode few seconds after from all the pain and pressure. EMS improves all of the already existing MS powers, grants better chakra control, remove limits etc. it makes sense that only after getting it, you're allowed to stabilize the strongest version of Susanoo.

@ bold I for one agree with you, rinnegan and Rokudo chakra aren't necessart for PS. It was is and shall remain an MS ability. The purpose of my post was to highlight that the databook doesn't refer to Majestic attire as PS so OP may be right in that aspect.

As for Kakashi's use of PS I don't believe Rokudo chakra was necessary for the PS as Kakashi never claimed as such. But I do think Rokudo chakra boosted the strength of his PS as it did Sasuke's. It was boosted to the point that it could hurt Kaguya and damage her something a regular person wouldnt be able to do. I think the side effects were automatically removed the moment Obito used his own chakra to help kakashi.

 

[SeveN797]

@ bold I for one agree with you, rinnegan and Rokudo chakra aren't necessart for PS. It was is and shall remain an MS ability. The purpose of my post was to highlight that the databook doesn't refer to Majestic attire as PS so OP may be right in that aspect.

As for Kakashi's use of PS I don't believe Rokudo chakra was necessary for the PS as Kakashi never claimed as such. But I do think Rokudo chakra boosted the strength of his PS as it did Sasuke's. It was boosted to the point that it could hurt Kaguya and damage her something a regular person wouldnt be able to do. I think the side effects were automatically removed the moment Obito used his own chakra to help kakashi.

Thing is, databook and actual manga aren't always exactly and strictly same with the names or descriptions. Neither in translation of PS it was called "perfect susanoo" instead it was simply referred as "Susano'o", you won't find "perfect" word in there. When it was introduced first time in the manga by Madara, he called it "Perfect Susanoo" but the databook refers to it as "complete susanoo". I reread your post with the translation of Magical garb Susano'o, same thing it's being referred as just "Susano'o".

Still it's the same jutsu, they're too many similarities - swords, diamond chamber where the user resides, the actual look of the armor which covers bijuu. If Sasuke/Madara could use Magical garb Susano'o, they were also possessing the ability to stabilize it by itself.

 

[MightGai]

It's an EMS shared technique, so yeah.

 

[Imp]

[Sub]Agreed. EMS Sasuke does not wield perfect Susano. In theory he should - but in feats he does not. Feats takes precedence over theory vis-à-vis this respect.[/Sub]​

 

[Ninetailsfox00x1]

I agree, he had humanoid walking susanoo but not PS.

EVEN IN the manga/anime yes it does look like PS but that was only a reference when madara first shrouded his susanoo around the kyuubi the first time.

He only showed PS feats after Hagaromo amp. Only sasuke fans will agree he has it to be on par with BM Naruto. Lmao

 

[Styles]

:lol People still saying he don't have it.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

:lol People still saying he don't have it.

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[Ninetailsfox00x1]

:lol People still saying he don't have it.

Show me a scan of him using it himself an I will concede if not. Don't reply to me.

 

[Guitar Hero]

2018 and brainlets STILL believe this :lol.

 

[Styles]

Show me a scan of him using it himself an I will concede if not. Don't reply to me.

:lol Already plenty scans showing him using it already in this thread.

 

[HowDidIGetPrem]

Show me a scan of him using it himself an I will concede if not. Don't reply to me.

Specifically a scan of him using it alone with no Rinnegan or Kurama.