[Discussion] Democrats and Republicans... What say you?

salamander uchiha

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I'm not American but what I will say is they're both as bad as each other. The problem you have is corporations and individuals can influence parties and policies.

My personal leanings are towards the libertarian(not liberal) side.
 

Tonybeeth

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Ah, so suddenly the video is just to make democrats look bad because it comes from prageru and goes against your belives, so let's just ignore everything in it, none of it is true, it's just making democrats look bad that's all. I have a feeling if it was a liberal video demonizing and smearing republicans like they always do you wouldn't be saying the same thing.

Did you even read the rest of my post? I'm not American, so I'm neither Democrat nor republican. I watch liberal news channels as well as conservative ones, which is why I know about prageru. I didn't even have to watch the video to know what the their conclusion Is. THAT'S MY POINT. Today things are so separate into boxes that you can presume anything based off one's political affiliations which is sad. People can't have intelligent discussions anymore because they're stuck in their believes and unable to change.
 

Fountain

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Did you even read the rest of my post? I'm not American, so I'm neither Democrat nor republican. I watch liberal news channels as well as conservative ones, which is why I know about prageru. I didn't even have to watch the video to know what the their conclusion Is. THAT'S MY POINT. Today things are so separate into boxes that you can presume anything based off one's political affiliations which is sad. People can't have intelligent discussions anymore because they're stuck in their believes and unable to change.

So you admittedly didn't even watch the video but still open your mouth.
 

Multiply

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This is so stupid.....they conveniently not mention things after the 1960's because party ideologies changed after. They aren't talking about the truth of the Democratic party now or how the Republicans have many bigoted policies now. This is nothing but propaganda they been using for years.

She did mention things past the 1960s. You're doing the shove your head in the sand and pretend it's not there tactic.

Both videos are from prageru which is predominantly conservative. Need I assume that you're conservative and the videos make democrats look like trash and republicans look good?

BTW I'm not even American but I know a bit about American politics to know that this binary shit is sick. Why Democrat or Republican? Why must you choose between those 2. That decision is what's making Americans less thoughtful of how decisions affect them and more concerned with history and pride

What do I have to do with the video aside from me saying it's interesting? I was providing the videos to a platform.

Regardless, what does their leaning have to do with what facts they did or did not present? If you want to be objective you would essentially fact check her. You are incapable of that.

Totally agree parties allows to ignore the issues for tribal bickering

OT both are corrupt but Republican party is more vile

Based off of what she said, the democrats created the KKK. Is that vile?

Its the same people who keep talking about Hilary even though she is longer running for President.
As it stands now wht they stood for bacj then doesn't matter.

Its about whay currently makes up both parties.



One is liberal in nature and although have coporate finances at least its not backing a man with no remote experience who openly puts the country agianst each other and actively talks about keep democrats out of the white house,destroys our relationships with everyone around the world.Destroys our eviornemntal poliices and won't condemn racist and nazi's and pan hadnling to christains who would love to see our constitution get ripped to shreds and place the bible as our new doctrine.


Shut this bum ass thread down

EDIT: Aware of the staggering amount of typos but comp is slow and i didn't see them until i was done typing.
Can't go back now unless i want my comp to freeze

This might be worse than Drecker's post.

Did you understand why it’s factually wrong though?

Which parts are factually wrong? I'm interested.
 

Lightbringer

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Based off of what she said, the democrats created the KKK. Is that vile?

Before the 1940s liberals were Republican and conservatives were Democrats. The South at the time was primarily Democrat and the North was Republican.

They switched parties due to Franklin D. Roosevelt's "New Deal" because the conservatives were against the idea of Federal government funding social programs, benefits, welfare, pension, infrastructure, regulating financial institutions in order to remedy the effects of the Depression.

Conservative and Liberal rhetoric remained while the parties changed. So if you want to be accurate in your statement, conservatives created the KKK who at the time identified themselves as Democrats, but are currently Republican.
 
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Multiply

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Before the 1940s liberals were Republican and conservatives were Democrats. The South at the time was primarily Democrat and the North was Republican.

They switched parties due to Franklin D. Roosevelt's "New Deal" because the conservatives were against the idea of Federal government funding social programs, benefits, welfare, pension, infrastructure, regulating financial institutions in order to remedy the effects of the Depression.

Conservative and Liberal rhetoric remained while the parties changed. So if you want to be accurate in your statement, conservatives created the KKK who at the time identified themselves as Democrats, but are currently Republican.
Hold the phone good sir. She has a rebuttal!

[video=youtube;UiprVX4os2Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiprVX4os2Y[/video]

Come on light, don't let this youtube professor wash you.
 
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Sagebee

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She did mention things past the 1960s. You're doing the shove your head in the sand and pretend it's not there tactic.



What do I have to do with the video aside from me saying it's interesting? I was providing the videos to a platform.

Regardless, what does their leaning have to do with what facts they did or did not present? If you want to be objective you would essentially fact check her. You are incapable of that.



Based off of what she said, the democrats created the KKK. Is that vile?



This might be worse than Drecker's post.



Which parts are factually wrong? I'm interested.

The democrats that existed in the past aren't the same ones the democrats and republicans flipped on issues

Never mind lightbringer already explained it
 

Lightbringer

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Hold the phone good sir. She has a rebuttal!

[video=youtube;UiprVX4os2Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiprVX4os2Y[/video]

Come on light, don't let this youtube professor wash you.

So her rebuttal is denying history and blaming it on the elites? I'm flummoxed.




The video made no mention of anything in my post. I never mentioned racism at all as being a factor in the party switch. So there was no rebuttal to begin with.
 

Multiply

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The democrats that existed in the past aren't the same ones the democrats and republicans flipped on issues

Never mind lightbringer already explained it

Such as which issues, sage? Which issues did they flip on?

So her rebuttal is denying history and blaming it on the elites? I'm flummoxed.




The video made no mention of anything in my post. I never mentioned racism at all as being a factor in the party switch. So there was no rebuttal to begin with.
Where did she deny history or blame it on the elites? In your source I only noticed a date being referenced to in the 40's a few times.
From the 1940sthrough the 1970s, however, the northern Democratic partymoved to support civil rights for African Americans, and thesouth moved toward the more conservative Republican party(with the shift pushed along by redistricting that increased thevoting power of the relatively prosperous urban and suburbanareas, as noted by Stephen Ansolabehere and James Snyder intheir 2008 book, The End of Inequality).

I also like how they tried to show the difference between the 1896 and the 2000 presidential election in that source. Here is Jimmy Carter's electoral map of his victory:
You must be registered for see images

Was Jimmy a republican?

Here is Dwight Eisenhower in '52:
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Weird how he won everything besides the deep south... All after your supposed 40's swap.

Looks like you got more rebutting to do jelly bean.
 

Tonybeeth

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So you admittedly didn't even watch the video but still open your mouth.

"I didn't have to watch the video to know what their conclusion is."

Learn to read better before posting dumb shit
 

Pumpkin Ninja

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Tbh, I don't know what happened between the two parties but you can't lie to yourself and say that racist voters don't vote Republican these days (You never see Democrats with confederate flags). Still, that's not to say that Republican policies are anti-black. I do think that the democratic party genuinely believes they are helping black people with their policies whether it's true or not.
 
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Lightbringer

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Such as which issues, sage? Which issues did they flip on?


Where did she deny history or blame it on the elites? In your source I only noticed a date being referenced to in the 40's a few times.


I also like how they tried to show the difference between the 1896 and the 2000 presidential election in that source. Here is Jimmy Carter's electoral map of his victory:
You must be registered for see images

Was Jimmy a republican?

Here is Dwight Eisenhower in '52:
You must be registered for see images

Weird how he won everything besides the deep south... All after your supposed 40's swap.

Looks like you got more rebutting to do jelly bean.


Ok, well you are denying history, just like you overlooked the linked I provided.



Here, I'll provide another:




Transcript from the video:

"But then, in the 1960s and 70s, everything supposedly flipped: suddenly the Republicans became the racists and the Democrats became the champions of civil rights.

Fabricated by left-leaning academic elites and journalists"



As someone else already mentioned, PragerU is a well known right-leaning propaganda outlet that is supported by the likes of Breitbart.

Keep trolling.
 
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Multiply

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Ok, well you are denying history, just like you overlooked the linked I provided.



Here, I'll provide another:




Transcript from the video:

"But then, in the 1960s and 70s, everything supposedly flipped: suddenly the Republicans became the racists and the Democrats became the champions of civil rights.

Fabricated by left-leaning academic elites and journalists"



As someone else already mentioned, PragerU is a well known right-leaning propaganda outlet that is supported by the likes of Breitbart.

Keep trolling.


But Light.. You literally didn't read anything I just said.

Where did she deny history or blame it on the elites?

Looking for that answer and for that matter, where did I deny history?

As far as the rest, just because you post links doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.

In neither of your two links does it support your idea that the parties flipped after the new deal. You said this:

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Also, just because it is conservative doesn't mean we should discount it before looking into the facts. You're not being very objective here good sir.
 

Lightbringer

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But Light.. You literally didn't read anything I just said.



Looking for that answer and for that matter, where did I deny history?

As far as the rest, just because you post links doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.

In neither of your two links does it support your idea that the parties flipped after the new deal. You said this:




Also, just because it is conservative doesn't mean we should discount it before looking into the facts. You're not being very objective here good sir.

I did read what you said; cherry picked data.

The links I provided were literally about the party switch, so yeah you obviously didn't bother to look.

If you want one specific to the New Deal, here it is:

You used a known propaganda outlet in an attempt to refute history. There's nothing objective about that. You sir are not being very smart. Pretty sure it's still taught in school to look for credible resources.
 
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Fountain

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"I didn't have to watch the video to know what their conclusion is."

Learn to read better before posting dumb shit

> Says he didn't have to watch the video to know what their conclusion is

> Tells me to learn how to read before posting dumb shit

Give me a break, you can't be for real.
 

Tonybeeth

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> Says he didn't have to watch the video to know what their conclusion is

> Tells me to learn how to read before posting dumb shit

Give me a break, you can't be for real.

Lmao. I see you're to get the last word in. But go check out the meaning of "didn't have to." It doesn't mean I didn't read it. It means that I'm familiar enough with the YouTube channel to know what their position is BEFORE I WATCHED THE VIDEO.
 

Sagebee

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Such as which issues, sage? Which issues did they flip on?


Where did she deny history or blame it on the elites? In your source I only noticed a date being referenced to in the 40's a few times.


I also like how they tried to show the difference between the 1896 and the 2000 presidential election in that source. Here is Jimmy Carter's electoral map of his victory:
You must be registered for see images

Was Jimmy a republican?

Here is Dwight Eisenhower in '52:
You must be registered for see images

Weird how he won everything besides the deep south... All after your supposed 40's swap.

Looks like you got more rebutting to do jelly bean.

I mean a complete 180 of what they stand on completely switched platforms

For example Abraham Lincoln was a republican, other that can't go in more depth learned this in my political science class and I think they've switched platforms a couple times before
 

Multiply

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I did read what you said; cherry picked data.

The links I provided were literally about the party switch, so yeah you obviously didn't bother to look.

If you want one specific to the New Deal, here it is:

You used a known propaganda outlet in an attempt to refute history. There's nothing objective about that. You sir are not being very smart. Pretty sure it's still taught in school to look for credible resources.

It's cherry picked because you don't agree with it?

The links you provided had nothing to do with what you said. In the first source they said that the parties switched in the 60's or 70's. Then they proceed to show data of an 1896 electoral college vs a 2000 electoral college. As if that somehow validates their point that the political switch. I then showed you two examples of Democrats SWEEPING the deep south in the 50's and the 70's .

These maps completely go against your idea that there was an en masse party switch in the 40's. It also goes against your source idea that the party switch even occurred in the 60's - 70's while they show a map of Bush's 2000 victory. (A lot closer to the 90's that was cited in the video).

I also love that your argument to you being absolutely wrong in your first post and then falling back on some livescience source from a bachelors degree level physicist is that PragerU is propaganda. That is what makes this line:

Pretty sure it's still taught in school to look for credible resources.

absolutely hilarious.

Your source game is lacking while hers is fire my guy.
 

Lightbringer

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It's cherry picked because you don't agree with it?

The links you provided had nothing to do with what you said. In the first source they said that the parties switched in the 60's or 70's. Then they proceed to show data of an 1896 electoral college vs a 2000 electoral college. As if that somehow validates their point that the political switch. I then showed you two examples of Democrats SWEEPING the deep south in the 50's and the 70's .

These maps completely go against your idea that there was an en masse party switch in the 40's. It also goes against your source idea that the party switch even occurred in the 60's - 70's while they show a map of Bush's 2000 victory. (A lot closer to the 90's that was cited in the video).

I also love that your argument to you being absolutely wrong in your first post and then falling back on some livescience source from a bachelors degree level physicist is that PragerU is propaganda. That is what makes this line:



absolutely hilarious.

Your source game is lacking while hers is fire my guy.


Nah, you just buy into propaganda. I'm not going to argue alternative facts with you. Ain't gonna waste my breath on you.

Historical experts and credible sources>>>>>You and breitbart affiliates.

Others have already completely debunked the video you made the thread about in great detail:

As I made my periodic excavation tunneling down through my junk mail folder, I noticed the following subject line: “Prager U goes viral: over 6 million views in one week!”

Curious to see how high on the B.S. meter this Prager U clip would register, I decided to click on it. As usual, it didn’t disappoint.

The headline: “The Inconvenient Truth About The Democratic Party,” accentuated with cartoonish images of a clansman and the stars and bars horizontally aligning with the Democratic Donkey- the imagery not too dissimilar from a slot machine missing on three different symbols.

But Prager U did indeed hit the jackpot here. For it’s hard enough for them to find a respectable university professor to voice an opinion to coincide with their mostly unfound and misleading political hackery, but to find one that is African-American, speaking about issues pertaining to the black community is the equivalent of hitting the Powerball after months of an unclaimed prize.

In watching the first four minutes of this almost six-minute clip, Professor Carol Swain is actually very accurate. In the distant past, the Democratic Party was the party of racism, defending the unconscionable act of owning slaves. Democrats largely resided in the south and were willing to go so far as to commit treason and split from the nation to form a confederacy to defend their right to continue to practice slave labor.

But from that point on, her commentary becomes misplaced and evasive:

Professor Swain’squote: “Since it’s founding in 1829, the Democratic Party has fought against every major civil rights initiative, and has a long history of discrimination.”

I seem to remember the Civil Rights Act of 1964 being the creation of JFK (a Democrat), and then finished and implemented under LBJ (a Democrat). And as for Congress, the support for the legislation had nothing to do with party affiliation and everything to do with whether the congressmen represented the north or the south. This indisputable fact of voting correlation is one that she does not even acknowledge. Instead, she untruthfully affixes vote direction to political party:

Professor Swain’s quote: “Democratic Senator’s fillibusted for 75 days..”

The Senator’s who filibustered the legislation were Richard Russell (Georgia), Strom Thurmund (South Carolina), Robert Byrd (West Virginia) and Sam Ervin (North Carolina). Bringing the argument into the more modern era, those are all states that Republican’s enjoy comfortable dominance in. Those men who represented those states are appropriately referred to as “Dixiecrats”, and their constituency swung to the Republican Party during the late 1960’s when Democratic presidents created and passed the Civil Rights Act Of 1964- a swing that was solidified even further when Nixon decided to pander to the “states rights” racists in the south. These states have voted predominantly Republican since then.

Professor Swain’s quote: “..the only serious Congressional opposition to the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964 came from Democrats. 80 percent of Republicans in Congress supported the bill, less than 70 percent of Democrats did.”

Putting aside the fact that a little bit more than 10 percent separating the respective parties support of the legislation is hardly constitutes one side being fully supportive, and the other being the “serious Congressional opposition”, let’s move on to the her more egregious representation of vote correlation.

It is a completely misleading implication to state that the “yeas” and “nays” had any correlation whatsoever to a political party. Her claim can be discarded just by looking at the actual vote tallies. The verified fact regarding the way in which a congressman voted has nothing to do with political party and everything to do with the region they were representing. As the vote tallies show below, if you were in the south, you very likely opposed the legislation. If you were representing a northern state, you generally favored it with few exceptions. Whether you were a Democrat or Republican mattered little as seen by the voting tallies below for the Civil Rights Act of 1964 by region:

The original House version:

Southern Democrats: 8-87 (7-93%)

Southern Republicans: 0-10 (0-100%)

Northern Democrats: 145-9 (94-6%)

Northern Republicans: 138-24 (85-15%)

The Senate version:

Southern Democrats: 1-20 (5-95%) (only Ralph Yarborough of Texas voted in favor)

Southern Republicans: 0-1 (0-100%) (John Tower of Texas)

Northern Democrats: 45-1 (98-2%) (only Robert Byrd of West Virginia voted against)

Northern Republicans: 27-5 (84-16%)

Notice the actual fact of which you’d never be privy to in watching this Prager video – ” the “Northern Democrats” actually supported the bill in a larger proportion than the “Northern Republicans” in both chambers of Congress.

Perhaps most startling of all, there was not a single vote cast in favor of the legislation by southern Republicans by any of their 11 total representatives in both chambers.

What you see above is clear and undisputed – a strong correlation of how a congressmen voted can be drawn from the region they representation, with no correlation drawn from the political party they were affiliated with.

Perhaps a decade ago, a Conservative may have examined the above voting tally, showing that Professor Swain purposely made a completely erroneous correlation to promote a political ideology (I say purposely because she’s a history professor at Vanderbilt University- of course she’d be familiar with the fact that party representation of Congressmen had no correlation with how they voted). And now knowing that this video is propaganda not designed to inform and educate accurately, maybe they say to themselves:

“I’m not going to absorb any more information from this video clip, and will take future Prager U videos with a grain of salt, as it’s representation of the voting tally was completely misleading. Using my own analysis, I can easily see that there is little correlation in how members of the two political parties voted, but a very strong correlation based on the region they represented. This wasn’t a Democrat vs. Republican issue, but a North vs. South issue.”

It doesn’t mean the reader should cease to have conservative principals. It simply means that they’ve utilized a bit of common sense and rationale to determine that the way the voting was represented in this clip was completely disingenuous. And then upon arriving at that conclusion, they make an educated decision to perhaps learn about this issue from a different source.

For this would benefit the Conservative party. It would create more informed, honest debate – absorbing information from reputable outlets to become better educated instead of mislead.

But today we have a president and his cabinet appointees, along with certain members of Congress who are insisting that 1 + 1 = 3 is completely acceptable. In this world, ideology trumps pragmatism, and rewrites and alternate portrayals of history are valid as long as there are people out there who want to believe in it. And if those who are paying attention, unabated by any ideological binders or pseudo-patriotism have the gall to question this obvious nonsense, we’re labeled as an outside infiltrating source full of fake convictions and one of “the others”.

Inexplicably, Professor Swain makes no attempt to address the state of race-relations of each political party as it pertains to the last 50 years of American history, other than to taint the modern Democratic party with broad generalizations that exist only in the deep caverns of the echo chamber that Rush Limbaugh carved out seemingly eons ago.

Although one would think perhaps the greatest amount of time should be spent on Nixon’s Southern Strategy, as it was a monumental sea change which has the single most bearing on where each party stands today on this issue, she instead chooses to wrap up the commentary.

At a certain point in the video, Swain informs all the students at Prager U of a racist comment that Lyndon B. Johnson “purportedly” said. Nothing like students garnering an extensive knowledge base on statements “purportedly” made. If Prager U is the alternative to a “liberal education,” than I’m more than proud to have been “liberally indoctrinated.”

Because in a fact-free environment, the word “purportedly” is free to exist anywhere and everywhere.

Let me conclude by allowing serious political players of the Republican Party to explain the”Southern Strategy” since Professor Swain decided to end her history lesson at around 1964. This are not statements “purportedly” made, but are actual verified statements from interviews.


“From now on, the Republicans are never going to get more than 10 to 20 percent of the Negro vote and they don’t need any more than that…but Republicans would be shortsighted if they weakened enforcement of the Voting Rights Act. The more Negroes who register as Democrats in the South, the sooner the Negrophobe whites will quit the Democrats and become Republicans. That’s where the votes are. Without that prodding from the blacks, the whites will backslide into their old comfortable arrangement with the local Democrats.”

-Kevin Philips, Richard Nixon political strategist



“You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘Ni***r, ni***r, ni***r.’ By 1968 you can’t say ‘ni***r’ as that hurts you, backfires. So you say stuff like, uh, forced busing, states- rights, and all that stuff, and you’re getting so abstract. Now, you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things and a byproduct of them is, blacks get hurt worse than whites… We want to cut this, is much more abstract than even the busing thing, uh, and a hell of a lot more abstract than ‘Ni***r, ni***r.'”

-Lee Atwáter, consultant and strategist to the Republican party, adviser to Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush.

Please let no person, entity, or ideology, rob you of your intellect, rationale, and the conquest to always question.


You keep living in your alternative universe, and stay irate brate.

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