what does it take for Byakugan to surpass sharingan???????

[lndra]

Your using fallacies to argue points that don't exist or have been addressed. Repetjon may make you feel a fallacious point =fact but not I. Anyway I've started a new thread do participate if and when you get a chance.

Since you didn't counter anything I said, and you are running away from the argument.

I'll assume you agree with a concession accepted.

YourPs. Madara was Rokudo before becoming the Jyubi jin and his right eye(Obito's) works different to the left eye try and keep up.

Doesn't change the fact that Madara gained Rikudou powers from being the Juubi Jinchuriki.

Lastly, it doesn't change the fact that both eyes have Kamui in them, it doesn't matter how they operate. Obito couldn't phase at all, but he can also teleport. Whereas Kakashi only teleports things, but Madara could use that power.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Since you didn't counter anything I said, and you are running away from the argument.

I'll assume you agree with a concession accepted.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.


[QYOTE]Doesn't change the fact that Madara gained Rikudou powers from being the Juubi Jinchuriki.

Lastly, it doesn't change the fact that both eyes have Kamui in them, it doesn't matter how they operate. Obito couldn't phase at all, but he can also teleport. Whereas Kakashi only teleports things, but Madara could use that power.[/QUOTE]

Obito's teleportation works different to Kakashi's use of it. Obitos actually affects his body and himself and that which touches him. Kakashis opens a breach and he sucks things into that breacht. Kakashi isnt phasing himself throigh it like Obito's. When Madara used it he did like Kakashi who opened a portal and jumped out of it after JJ Obito was defeated. Its not hard to understand.

 

[lndra]

Obito's teleportation works different to Kakashi's use of it. Obitos actually affects his body and himself and that which touches him. Kakashis opens a breach and he sucks things into that breacht. Kakashi isnt phasing himself throigh it like Obito's. When Madara used it he did like Kakashi who opened a portal and jumped out of it after JJ Obito was defeated. Its not hard to understand.

Their teleporation acts the same. It's that one pulls themselves to Kamui (and a bit outside of his area) and Kakashi teleports what he sees in hsi vocal point.

However, that doesn't change the fact that Kamui (the ability itself since the story doesn't differ the abilities since they are supposed to be joint powers anyway), was restricted for Obito, and not Madara.

Despite the restrictions of being a Juubi Jinchuriki, which they both were. That's why it was an asspull for Madara. Because it was an established nerf for Obito, but it stopped being a nerf so that Madara could move the plot forward.

Hence: asspull

 

[salamander uchiha]

Their teleporation acts the same. It's that one pulls themselves to Kamui (and a bit outside of his area) and Kakashi teleports what he sees in hsi vocal point.

However, that doesn't change the fact that Kamui (the ability itself since the story doesn't differ the abilities since they are supposed to be joint powers anyway), was restricted for Obito, and not Madara.

Despite the restrictions of being a Juubi Jinchuriki, which they both were. That's why it was an asspull for Madara. Because it was an established nerf for Obito, but it stopped being a nerf so that Madara could move the plot forward.

Hence: asspull

The only way that would be possible was if they're operated exactly the same. So if you can provide proof of the two jutsu opperating amd having the exact same effect then I'll accept it as ass pull.

But we know that not to be the case.

Obito's affects himself or his body by allowing his to teleport himself.

Kakashis allows him to teleport objects in the line of his sight.

The 2 work clearly differently and so therefore to use the example of one to dismiss the other is a fallacy on your part.

 

[Rovalez monstra]

I just want to let the jury know that this guy has been saying that Hinata's TLF is a aspull, and is now saying that if you can't post scans it didn't exist, shouldn't we use the logic backwards?

Not according to your logic, clown. Your words arent gonna mean shit.

In any case, yes. The entire Manga up until Itachi used it, is my evidence. Because not one piece of evidence hints at, or even touches on the fact that these powers might exist. Unless you have evidence of Susano'o and the spirit weapons actually being a thing before Kishimoto asspulled them?

Backtracking? Who the hell wants a databook which is released after kishi introduced the jutsu in manga? I'm asking where twin lion fist was foreshadowed not the databook after it was released. By your logic itachis databook proves your asspull logic false right? Such a silly argument.

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Spoiler

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Heres the databook you so wanted. Read it peacefully and lavishly.

It just means that Naruto wasn't talented enough to break Itachi's Genjutsu, but that's Itachi we are talking about.

Agree.

You already got destroyed fam.

Stop going off topic to hide your pretentious fallacy which has been lurking in your arguments. I'm gonna point it out no matter what. Take a dictionary and look up the meaning "Foreshadow".

Nothings personal and no ones winning here. Unless you can provide a foreshadow for twin lion fist in manga and a foreshadow for Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi and Kamui while you're at it.

 

[lndra]

The only way that would be possible was if they're operated exactly the same. So if you can provide proof of the two jutsu opperating amd having the exact same effect then I'll accept it as ass pull.

No. They are both literally the same technique, what your illustrating would be possible if they were listed as different techniques: Such as Amaterasu and Kagutschi, but Kamui is Kamui.

Not according to your logic, clown. Your words arent gonna mean shit.

Almost laughed out loud when a clown calls someone a clown. LOL

Backtracking? Who the hell wants a databook which is released after kishi introduced the jutsu in manga? I'm asking where twin lion fist was foreshadowed not the databook after it was released. By your logic itachis databook proves your asspull logic false right? Such a silly argument.

LOL this is the true definition of backtracking. When did you ask for a foreshadowed statement of TLF? When was Hinata's abilities after the time skip explored?

You asked:

When was it stated lion fist was a traditional hyuga jutsu?

^Clown

Heres the databook you so wanted. Read it peacefully and lavishly.

Waiting for the manga scans of it being foreshadowed before Kishimoto asspulled it

 

[salamander uchiha]

No. They are both literally the same technique, what your illustrating would be possible if they were listed as different techniques: Such as Amaterasu and Kagutschi, but Kamui is Kamui.

I know you ignored my post since its too mich to address I'll repeat it for you nonetheless.

The only way that would be possible was if they're operated exactly the same. So if you can provide proof of the two jutsu opperating amd having the exact same effect then I'll accept it as ass pull.*

But we know that not to be the case.

Obito's affects himself or his body by allowing his to teleport himself.

Kakashis allows him to teleport objects in the line of his sight.

The 2 work clearly differently and so therefore to use the example of one to dismiss the other is a fallacy on your part.

 

[lndra]

I know you ignored my post since its too mich to address I'll repeat it for you nonetheless.The only way that would be possible was if they're operated exactly the same. So if you can provide proof of the two jutsu opperating amd having the exact same effect then I'll accept it as ass pull.*

But we know that not to be the case.

Obito's affects himself or his body by allowing his to teleport himself.

Kakashis allows him to teleport objects in the line of his sight.
.

Because your point makes no sense. The story list the eyes as Kamui, not Kamui - Teleport and Kamui - Consume. The same Mangekyo Sharingan techniques.

For example what you would TRY to explain, is Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi. One creates the flames, and the other shapes them. Hence why Kishimoto gave those techniques different names, because they are utilized differently.

But Kamui is Kamui.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Because your point makes no sense. The story list the eyes as Kamui, not Kamui - Teleport and Kamui - Consume. The same Mangekyo Sharingan techniques.

For example what you would TRY to explain, is Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi. One creates the flames, and the other shapes them. Hence why Kishimoto gave those techniques different names, because they are utilized differently.

But Kamui is Kamui.

No it's not you have Kamui A(Obito's) which has an intrinsic effect the user and Kamui B(Kakashi's) which has an extrinsic effect. Their effects are different and therefore they're different in application. If both did the exact same thing or had the same exact effect you'd have a point. So if Madara used Kamui A with which Obito couldn't phase or intrinsically teleport you'd have a point. But Madara used Kamui B which had an extrinsic effect. That's why your example is flawed and it doesn't fall under the rule.

Kaga(manipulated flames) and Ama(produces flames)aren't relevant we're discussing Kamui here. I've listed how they work

 

[lndra]

No it's not you have Kamui A(Obito's) which has an intrinsic effect the user and Kamui B(Kakashi's) which has an extrinsic effect. Their effects are different and therefore they're different in application. If both did the exact same thing or had the same exact effect you'd have a point. So if Madara used Kamui A with which Obito couldn't phase or intrinsically teleport you'd have a point. But Madara used Kamui B which had an extrinsic effect. That's why your example is flawed and it doesn't fall under the rule.

Kaga(manipulated flames) and Ama(produces flames)aren't relevant we're discussing Kamui here. I've listed how they work

Before I counter, where is stated in the Manga, Databook, or even Anime for God sakes that Obito Right and left eye usage of Kamui are stated to be different things? As in Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi.

Where are they labeled as Kamui A, or Kamui B? When you post your response, I'll quote this post again and finish my counter.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Before I counter, where is stated in the Manga, Databook, or even Anime for God sakes that Obito Right and left eye usage of Kamui are stated to be different things? As in Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi.

Where are they labeled as Kamui A, or Kamui B? When you post your response, I'll quote this post again and finish my counter.

Quite easily have you seen how the two work 1 affects Obito and what he touches. The other effects other objects they're clearly working differently. I called them Kamui A and B for clarity they're not referred to as such in the manga(I think).

 

[lndra]

Quite easily have you seen how the two work 1 affects Obito and what he touches. The other effects other objects they're clearly working differently. I called them Kamui A and B for clarity they're not referred to as such in the manga(I think).

Well that's more or less to the point. Kamui isn't a distinct ability, it doesn't have separation like Amaterasu.

Both eyes have different functions, both that doesn't change the fact that both eyes still use Kamui. Whereas there are some Mangekyo Sharingan with more than one MS ability, but have different names to clarify which is which.

Both Kakashi and Obito's eyes are still Kamui at the end of the day. The Manga doesn't separate them, therefore the correlation your trying to make doesn't hold up.

UNLESS - The Manga or Data-Book clarifies that these two eyes have different abilities, in the term of them not being both Kamui (whereas Amaterasu has 'Amaterasu' and 'Kagutsuchi') to which then, I would have no point to agree.

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But the problem lies: I already know it does not exist.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Well that's more or less to the point. Kamui isn't a distinct ability, it doesn't have separation like Amaterasu.

Both eyes have different functions, both that doesn't change the fact that both eyes still use Kamui. Whereas there are some Mangekyo Sharingan with more than one MS ability, but have different names to clarify which is which.

Both Kakashi and Obito's eyes are still Kamui at the end of the day. The Manga doesn't separate them, therefore the correlation your trying to make doesn't hold up.

UNLESS - The Manga or Data-Book clarifies that these two eyes have different abilities, in the term of them not being both Kamui (whereas Amaterasu has 'Amaterasu' and 'Kagutsuchi') to which then, I would have no point to agree.

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But the problem lies: I already know it does not exist.

My correlation is legit and mangafacts. You posting a scan of two people shouting Kamui proves they work the same please be real.

Two techniques work differently are you denying Obito's use of Kamui is intrinsic? Yes or no.

Are you denying Kakashi's use of Kamui is extrinsic? Yes or No.

If you agree their use(affect on objects) is not the same then how can you claim that they're the same? You can't use one eye to explain or dismiss the possibilities with the other eye.

 

[lndra]

My correlation is legit and mangafacts. You posting a scan of two people shouting Kamui proves they work the same

That's literally what I mean. It's a proven fact that both eyes are Kamui, they aren't differentiate abilities, despite them having different functions.

Unlike Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi, which are literally different Mangekyo Sharingan abilities.

Two techniques work differently are you denying Obito's use of Kamui is intrinsic?
Are you denying Kakashi's use of Kamui is extrinsic? Yes or No.

It doesn't matter what I think. The fact remains that Kamui isn't a separated term: Both eyes are Kamui.

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> hence why when used together: THEY DO THE SAME THING.

If you agree their use(affect on objects) is not the same then how can you claim that they're the same? You can't use one eye to explain or dismiss the possibilities with the other eye.

> Same eye power
> different functions
> Story calls them both Kamui

Your almost trying to say that both eyes have different abilities/listed as different things, but they are not.

Narrative states they are BOTH kamui. Two halves of the same coin.

Anything else is fan fic

 

[salamander uchiha]

That's literally what I mean. It's a proven fact that both eyes are Kamui, they aren't differentiate abilities, despite them having different functions.

Unlike Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi, which are literally different Mangekyo Sharingan abilities.



It doesn't matter what I think. The fact remains that Kamui isn't a separated term: Both eyes are Kamui.

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> hence why when used together: THEY DO THE SAME THING.


> Same eye power
> different functions
> Story calls them both Kamui

Your almost trying to say that both eyes have different abilities/listed as different things, but they are not.

Narrative states they are BOTH kamui. Two halves of the same coin.

Anything else is fan fic

So are you conceding that both eyes work differently? Yes or no.

Are you conceding 1 eye and its use of kamui has an intrinsic effect? Yes or no.

Are you conceding the other eye and it's use of Kamui has an extrinsic effect? Yes or no.

Please answer the questions.

Thanks.

 

[lndra]

So are you conceding that both eyes work differently? Yes or no.

Are you conceding 1 eye and its use of kamui has an intrinsic effect? Yes or no.

Read the Manga

Spoiler

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It was even stated when both eyes are used in conjunction, they both benefit the speed of their techniques at the same time

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They are both one in the same - They aren't meant to be different techniques, that's your fan fiction.

Are you conceding the other eye amd it's use of Kamui has an extrinsic effecf? Yes or no.

Or when Obito used both of his eyes while in possession of them both, to do the same thing at the same time.

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Please answer the questions.
Thanks.

Please counter the facts and showcase any Manga/Data-book statements that states us both Kamui eyes have different abilities, or in better term, listed at two different techniques under two different names.

Thanks.

 

[salamander uchiha]

I refuse to answer the questions.

I know you do concession accepted.

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The fact that Madara explains how either 1 can use Kamui Obito intrinsically and Kakashi extrinsically because of their different eyes. Was the deathnell in your original argument oh and the fact that you refused to answer very simple questions. Since both eyes have a different application of Kamui one can't be used to dismiss the others application. Obito's inability with his eye(intrinsic teleportation)can't negate Madara's ability with Kakashi's eye(extrinsic application opening a portal and moving through it)

Ps. Thanks for the scan.

Pps. I know your ego means you must have the last word feel free to jump and dodge and make excuses or whatever.

 

[lndra]

I know you do concession accepted.

How ironic that you admit defeat once again. You fell right into the ploy ~

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The fact that Madara explains how either 1 can use Kamui Obito intrinsically and Kakashi extrinsically because of their different eyes. Was the deathnell in your original argument oh and the fact that you refused to answer very simple questions.

Madara confirms what I have been saying the entire time. Both use Kamui:

"I bet one will try to distract me while the other uses Kamui"

Ps. Thanks for the scan.

No problem it was fun educating you.

Take one for the road:

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[salamander uchiha]

How ironic that you admit defeat once again. You fell right into the ploy ~

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Madara confirms what I have been saying the entire time. Both use Kamui:

"I bet one will try to distract me while the other uses Kamui"



No problem it was fun educating you.

Take one for the road:

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There's no ploy you just solo'd yourself. Madara confirms one has an extrinsic application opens a portal in his line of sight and the other has an intrinsic application. Meaning Obito's eye transports him and whatever he's touching. And Kakashi eye opens a breach which objects move through. So 1s shortcomings can't be used to call the other ones ass pulls.

Thanks for playing.

 

[lndra]

There's no ploy you just solo'd yourself. Madara confirms one has an extrinsic application opens a portal in his line of sight and the other has an intrinsic application. Meaning Obito's eye transports him and whatever he's touching. And Kakashi eye opens a breach which objects move through. So 1s shortcomings can't be used to call the other ones ass pulls.

The moment your opinion lost meaning to manga facts

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Thanks for playing.

No problem. Thanks for losing.