Except if Ace made fire within smoke, and not out of pre-existing fire, the surprise would not have been about the tunnel, there would be surprise about fire forming period. The fact that the pirate shouted about a tunnel forming "in the flames" and not about fire forming is indicative enough of what was happening to anyone not desperate to cling to a bad point.
Enel is not making the lightning from the sky. The sky made that lightning and he served as a conductor.
SOo he's controlling lightning from the sky? Amazing.
Also we don't know how Ceasar's ability works. The air can't simply vanish so who knows how he does it ? My best guess is that like he can make gas appear from his body he is able to suck it in as well. That would make most sense since logia can only make the elements appear from their own body. They don't have control over their element once it's outside of the body.
The "air" didn't vanish though. He removed the oxygen surrounding them. Doesn't matter how he made that happen, he took control of gas that he himself did not create and was alreayd ambient in the air. Caesar explicitly says "I can control the air around me." There is nothing to argue here.
@bold: I like how you're arguing against something explicitly shown in the manga with "We've never seen it happen" as your proof that it wasn't happening. A1 rhetoric.
Are people arguing BM controlling Magma will help her here lmfao? What in the world will using Magma do against an opponent made of Magma himself?
If anything that homie will end up helping Akainu lmao.
Anyways, Akainu has more hype and relevance to the plot of One Piece, that's the best way to judge how a battle between top tiers would turn out, but in this case Akainu also has the best feats out of alive characters.
Portrayal - Akainu. Teach who is a Yonkou rn, ran from him only a year before becoming Yonkou when he had his entire crew with him. Big Mom has nothing special in this department, she's no Kaidou (who got separated from every top tier), doesn't have the relevance Teach (EOS enemy) nor Shanks (Luffy's idol) does.
Hype - Scarred Luffy (Mihawk scarred Zoro), killed Ace (Teach captured Ace), shaping up to be one of the final enemies.
Feats - MF speaks for itself, he was steamrolling through WB's entire crew, another Yonkou needed to step in just to stop him, and this was after WB took his best cheapshots at him. Only current top tier who has beaten another top tier as well (Kuzan). Compare this to whatever we're getting with BM here.
Big Mom will find it hard to even last long in battle without eating, these battles can take multiple days.
To make matters worse, her durability is a major part of what makes her strong, and now that is dealt with because she is facing the most lethal character in the manga, her skin ain't saving her from a magma fist.
All things considered it's not going above high diff in favour of Akainu. High diff only out of respect that she is a Yonkou, not because she has actually shown she requires high diff from Akainu. Light work.
I gotta agree with Tosh on this one, what good would it actually do? Akainu can run right through it and attack her directly, it can't hurt him so aside from maybe absorbing lava he throws into it what does it serve? And prometheus would be useless in a fuight against Sabo or a logia until it's shown haki can be added to his lightning strikes.
I think you guys are missing the point we are making. Big Mom will control sentient elemental beings (possibly of every element) that will automatically defend and attack for her even without her knowledge or command. We bring up her controlling a or multiple magma homies because that automatically negates Akainu's mid to long range Magma attacks. Which puts him at a huge disadvantage if Big Mom goes airborne because Akainu's can't fly. It also leaves Akainu's to try to attack Big Mom with close range attacks, which would be suicide to try to fight someone of her strength.
Even if Akainu's uses magma fist, big mom could place a magma Homie in each hand and coat them with her superior haki which would be problematic for Akainu. And then you have to consider that she still has other elements she could utilize other than magma also. She could fight with Napoleon in one hand (coated in haki), a magma Homie in the other hand (coated in haki and also eating Akainu's magma to get stronger), mean while her earth Homie could make Akainu lose his balance which give big mom an opening to do some real damage.
She has so many advantages in this fight. But ultimately if you think Akainu has some feat that makes puts him over her which I have not seen please share because I would like a different point of view.
I think you guys are missing the point we are making. Big Mom will control sentient elemental beings (possibly of every element) that will automatically defend and attack for her even without her knowledge or command. We bring up her controlling a or multiple magma homies because that automatically negates Akainu's mid to long range Magma attacks. Which puts him at a huge disadvantage if Big Mom goes airborne because Akainu's can't fly. It also leaves Akainu's to try to attack Big Mom with close range attacks, which would be suicide to try to fight someone of her strength.
Even if Akainu's uses magma fist, big mom could place a magma Homie in each hand and coat them with her superior haki which would be problematic for Akainu. And then you have to consider that she still has other elements she could utilize other than magma also. She could fight with Napoleon in one hand (coated in haki), a magma Homie in the other hand (coated in haki and also eating Akainu's magma to get stronger), mean while her earth Homie could make Akainu lose his balance which give big mom an opening to do some real damage.
She has so many advantages in this fight. But ultimately if you think Akainu has some feat that makes puts him over her which I have not seen please share because I would like a different point of view.
I'm not misunderstanding anything, with the logic you're going with, BM is above Kaidou, Whitebeard, Roger the list goes on. Having a bunch of trash homies doesn't do anything for her against top tiers let alone a logia top tier who would ignore every attack.
I'm not misunderstanding anything, with the logic you're going with, BM is above Kaidou, Whitebeard, Roger the list goes on. Having a bunch of trash homies doesn't do anything for her against top tiers let alone a logia top tier who would ignore every attack.
MickNerks has a point.
The homies probably won't be able to do much against Akainu, but they were never intended to, their purpose is to defend against his magma. Also, how is he ignoring her attacks if she hits him with superior Armament haki.
Everybody knows she isn't beating Kaido, Whitebeard or Roger so i don't know why you would even say that.
MickNerks has a point.
The homies probably won't be able to do much against Akainu, but they were never intended to, their purpose is to defend against his magma. Also, how is he ignoring her attacks if she hits him with superior Armament haki.
Everybody knows she isn't beating Kaido, Whitebeard or Roger so i don't know why you would even say that.
Why wouldn't she beat those 3 given the nonsense being spewed here? You can apply that nonsense across the board and she should be the strongest character in the manga.
Having a magma homie is quite possibly the dumbest option someone could have come up with lmfao, you're gonna fight Akainu with his own element that he can blend with or ignore. Literally have given Akainu more options to work with, heck next thing you know he feeds the homie with magma and it becomes his buddy like Nami was feeding the cloud some clouds.
Btw has BM even landed any attacks cleanly on anyone yet? She is so garbage when it comes to CQC skills that I can't remember a single scene. The strawhats evaded everything she offered.
Fact of the matter remains, Akainu punches holes through her, she's not doing anything about it, her durability isn't saving her here against the most lethal character in the manga, when she was shitting her pants falling from a height.
She's not even used to that level of pain, I wonder how she'd react when she gets gutted.
The shape of Zeus' body distorted when Nami took control of the lightning inside of himself, and he appeared unable to stop or control his "body" when it was happening. My point was, if Zeus' body could be distorted through Nami INDIRECTLY controlling it(manipulating the lightning inside), a magma Homie ain't gonna be able to stop Akainu DIRECTLY manipulating the magma itself.
As I said again, Zeus appeared to have lost control over his "body" through indirect manipulation. It stands to reason that a direct manipulation from a Logia would have the same effect.
Yeah I see what you mean.. but that's the point I'm trying to make about the Zeus and Nami situation being unique.. since she was "feeding" him weather eggs, her weapons of attack were being stored in his "stomach".. since he is a thunder cloud and not just a literal lightning bolt Homie it's a very circumstantial scenario.
A Homie like Prometheus is literally just purely fire, I don't think someone like Sabo would be able to "feed" him straight fire in it's normal form like that, rather any fire would just be adding more power to Prometheus indefinitely.. whether Prometheus wants to "eat" the fire or not.. More flames to a fire is going to make that fire bigger no matter what..
Fact of the matter is until we see a Logia user actually manipulating one of Big Mom's Homies, we have no idea if it's even possible or not.. her soul being inside the Homie might just be enough to prevent that from happening.. this is One Piece after all, I can see Oda doing that.
*Sabo looking puzzled and confused because there's a giant ball of fire in front of him that he can't control at all.. no matter how much of his own fire he throws at it, it just keeps absorbing it and using it to get bigger and stronger..*
Why wouldn't she beat those 3 given the nonsense being spewed here? You can apply that nonsense across the board and she should be the strongest character in the manga.
Having a magma homie is quite possibly the dumbest option someone could have come up with lmfao, you're gonna fight Akainu with his own element that he can blend with or ignore. Literally have given Akainu more options to work with, heck next thing you know he feeds the homie with magma and it becomes his buddy like Nami was feeding the cloud some clouds.
Btw has BM even landed any attacks cleanly on anyone yet? She is so garbage when it comes to CQC skills that I can't remember a single scene. The strawhats evaded everything she offered.
Fact of the matter remains, Akainu punches holes through her, she's not doing anything about it, her durability isn't saving her here against the most lethal character in the manga, when she was shitting her pants falling from a height.
She's not even used to that level of pain, I wonder how she'd react when she gets gutted.
I wasn't referring to the magma homie as i too don't believe that would work ,I was talking about how she can make a homie out of almost anything, even the ocean, all of which could be used as a barrier to block incoming magma.
I wasn't referring to the magma homie as i too don't believe that would work ,I was talking about how she can make a homie out of almost anything, even the ocean, all of which could be used as a barrier to block incoming magma.
Lol no, I know for a fact, without even having to read the post, that you did not.
Except if Ace made fire within smoke, and not out of pre-existing fire, the surprise would not have been about the tunnel, there would be surprise about fire forming period. The fact that the pirate shouted about a tunnel forming "in the flames" and not about fire forming is indicative enough of what was happening to anyone not desperate to cling to a bad point.
SOo he's controlling lightning from the sky? Amazing.
The "air" didn't vanish though. He removed the oxygen surrounding them. Doesn't matter how he made that happen, he took control of gas that he himself did not create and was alreayd ambient in the air. Caesar explicitly says "I can control the air around me." There is nothing to argue here.
@bold: I like how you're arguing against something explicitly shown in the manga with "We've never seen it happen" as your proof that it wasn't happening. A1 rhetoric.
I'm sure you wouldn't, not while you're being this willfully ignorant.
Nah man, you're just on this mantra of repeating yourself but you're not reading the facts. Ace was definitely in the smoke, it's clear as day in the manga panel. But it doesn't matter because even inside the flames Ace could've still made a tunnel by pushing the other fire out of the way after an attack of his own.
The clouds made the lighting and the lighting strikes at the highest point, Enel understand how that works. He just needs to be there and guide it.
You have no clue how Ceasar does it, you're even speculating about his method. So you can't use speculation to prove more speculation. That's crazy !
The real question is, if Akainu could bend magma at will, which is a paramecia ability, and not a logia ability. Why didn't he do it at the war with so much magma around the plaza. Or Aokiji when all the pirates were on the ice. They could've cleaned up.
I'm not misunderstanding anything, with the logic you're going with, BM is above Kaidou, Whitebeard, Roger the list goes on. Having a bunch of trash homies doesn't do anything for her against top tiers let alone a logia top tier who would ignore every attack.
How are the homies trash if she is the one that is in control of them ? It's her soul in it and you've seen the destructive power of Zeus and Prometheus.
The only concept I presented by putting a soul in the magma is that she has a counter to shield from magma. I never said it would be an effective weapon to attack Akainu with. It would be better to have then not to have. Besides it's sentient and you don't even have to pay attention to it.
Also all the other top tiers don't have anything to do with it because they don't have an specific element for Big Mom to take over.
Why wouldn't she beat those 3 given the nonsense being spewed here? You can apply that nonsense across the board and she should be the strongest character in the manga.
Having a magma homie is quite possibly the dumbest option someone could have come up with lmfao, you're gonna fight Akainu with his own element that he can blend with or ignore. Literally have given Akainu more options to work with, heck next thing you know he feeds the homie with magma and it becomes his buddy like Nami was feeding the cloud some clouds.
Nah man, you're just on this mantra of repeating yourself but you're not reading the facts. Ace was definitely in the smoke, it's clear as day in the manga panel. But it doesn't matter because even inside the flames Ace could've still made a tunnel by pushing the other fire out of the way after an attack of his own.
The clouds made the lighting and the lighting strikes at the highest point, Enel understand how that works. He just needs to be there and guide it.
You have no clue how Ceasar does it, you're even speculating about his method. So you can't use speculation to prove more speculation. That's crazy !
The real question is, if Akainu could bend magma at will, which is a paramecia ability, and not a logia ability. Why didn't he do it at the war with so much magma around the plaza. Or Aokiji when all the pirates were on the ice. They could've cleaned up.
How are the homies trash if she is the one that is in control of them ? It's her soul in it and you've seen the destructive power of Zeus and Prometheus.
The only concept I presented by putting a soul in the magma is that she has a counter to shield from magma. I never said it would be an effective weapon to attack Akainu with. It would be better to have then not to have. Besides it's sentient and you don't even have to pay attention to it.
Also all the other top tiers don't have anything to do with it because they don't have an specific element for Big Mom to take over.
You're misinformed. Devil fruits can manipulate the ocean without trouble. Look at Aokiji freezing it for example. They just can't swim in it. Looks like you're lacking basic knowledge to participate in basic One Piece discussions. No wonder your statements about Akainu are off all the time, you've been reading a different story all this time than the rest of us.
All the more painful and ironic that you're trying to mock someone else on an incorrect statement. Ask yourself about that if that was the smart thing to do.
I'm not misunderstanding anything, with the logic you're going with, BM is above Kaidou, Whitebeard, Roger the list goes on. Having a bunch of trash homies doesn't do anything for her against top tiers let alone a logia top tier who would ignore every attack.
What does Kaido, WHitebeard, or Roger have to do with AKAINU. Im not using ABC logic here, Akainu is elemental logia and Big Mom has shown defensive capabilities for his element. On top of that she has shown superior combat ability.
Please explain to me what theat has to do with the other Yonko?
Why wouldn't she beat those 3 given the nonsense being spewed here? You can apply that nonsense across the board and she should be the strongest character in the manga.
Actually, you cant. The other Yonko dont have an element for Big Mom to take use her powers on to neutralize their attack. She could do the same with Aokiji for example, but not Kizaru or Fujitora.
Please dont think Im saying the Magma homie would be a additional attack power boost for her in the fight. Im only suggesting that it could be used to nuetralize any LR or MR attack Akainu throws at her.
Having a magma homie is quite possibly the dumbest option someone could have come up with lmfao, you're gonna fight Akainu with his own element that he can blend with or ignore. Literally have given Akainu more options to work with, heck next thing you know he feeds the homie with magma and it becomes his buddy like Nami was feeding the cloud some clouds.
Once again, the homie would not be used to attack Akainu. Just a measure to defend herself from his Magma Attacks. No different from if Akainu was a water logia and Big Mom made a Water Homie to negate the attacks.
Btw has BM even landed any attacks cleanly on anyone yet? She is so garbage when it comes to CQC skills that I can't remember a single scene. The strawhats evaded everything she offered.
Please stop trying to downplay Linlin, because it will make you seem like a fanboy, and I want to try give you credit of actually wanting to have a debate on the discussion and not just flaming in the name of Akainu. Obviously Linlin has been shown multiple times in the manga attacking and killing people.
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Fact of the matter remains, Akainu punches holes through her, she's not doing anything about it, her durability isn't saving her here against the most lethal character in the manga, when she was shitting her pants falling from a height.
What evidence do you have to support your claim that Akainu would punch a hole through Big Mom. I hope you are not using Whitebeards durability as a measuring stick for Big Mom. I would like to point of that Big Mom has the best natural durability (w/o haki) seen in the manga thus far. Nothing we've seen is shown to have given her the smallest amount of damage yet.
Considering Big Mom has already taking a direct hit from a Mountain Busting and Town Destroying attack (w/o using haki) and walk away as though nothing happen would likely mean her durability w/ haki is strong enough tp block and/or tank Akainu's attacks that we saw at Marineford.
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You can clearly see Jimbe who is an experience pirate and warlord of the sea being completely shocked that Linlin could survived that attack. And not only did she survive, but she was not hurt or damaged at all. Please dont continue to talk down about Big Mom when she actually has feats that validate her strength.
In terms of attack power and AoE Linlin has shown greater power and range than anything we have seen from Akainu, and once again this is without the use of Haki. So please make a actual argument to support your claim instead of relying on "Big Mom and her homies are fodder" remarks.
Actually, you cant. The other Yonko dont have an element for Big Mom to take use her powers on to neutralize their attack. She could do the same with Aokiji for example, but not Kizaru or Fujitora.
Please dont think Im saying the Magma homie would be a additional attack power boost for her in the fight. Im only suggesting that it could be used to nuetralize any LR or MR attack Akainu throws at her.
Once again, the homie would not be used to attack Akainu. Just a measure to defend herself from his Magma Attacks. No different from if Akainu was a water logia and Big Mom made a Water Homie to negate the attacks.
Please stop trying to downplay Linlin, because it will make you seem like a fanboy, and I want to try give you credit of actually wanting to have a debate on the discussion and not just flaming in the name of Akainu. Obviously Linlin has been shown multiple times in the manga attacking and killing people.
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What evidence do you have to support your claim that Akainu would punch a hole through Big Mom. I hope you are not using Whitebeards durability as a measuring stick for Big Mom. I would like to point of that Big Mom has the best natural durability (w/o haki) seen in the manga thus far. Nothing we've seen is shown to have given her the smallest amount of damage yet.
Considering Big Mom has already taking a direct hit from a Mountain Busting and Town Destroying attack (w/o using haki) and walk away as though nothing happen would likely mean her durability w/ haki is strong enough tp block and/or tank Akainu's attacks that we saw at Marineford.
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You can clearly see Jimbe who is an experience pirate and warlord of the sea being completely shocked that Linlin could survived that attack. And not only did she survive, but she was not hurt or damaged at all. Please dont continue to talk down about Big Mom when she actually has feats that validate her strength.
In terms of attack power and AoE Linlin has shown greater power and range than anything we have seen from Akainu, and once again this is without the use of Haki. So please make a actual argument to support your claim instead of relying on "Big Mom and her homies are fodder" remarks.
You're misinformed. Devil fruits can manipulate the ocean without trouble. Look at Aokiji freezing it for example. They just can't swim in it. Looks like you're lacking basic knowledge to participate in basic One Piece discussions. No wonder your statements about Akainu are off all the time, you've been reading a different story all this time than the rest of us.
All the more painful and ironic that you're trying to mock someone else on an incorrect statement. Ask yourself about that if that was the smart thing to do.
But big mom's soul is what is being used to make the homie and since she's a df user wouldn't that homie, being placed in water. Loose power because it's her soul. It's not like she would beat akainu regardless the water would just evaporate quicker than ice but I'm js
