Byakugan Grants Abilities

[Mori Jin]

Just as long as you mean that Jyuuken is a standalone feat, and is not granted by the Byakugan, then I agree with you.
Let me try my best to tell things.

Uchiha KKG=Sharingan;

• All ocular genjutsu stuff are granted by the Sharingan
• MS techs are also granted by the Sharingan
• Madara, despite lacking actual eyes, summoned his Susanoo. This can be explained by Tobirama's hypothesis that a special chakra from an Uchiha brain sprouts and manifest into an Uchiha's eye, ergo the Sharingan.
• So, to interpret, Sharingan isn't the eye itself, but is the special chakra that is possessed by those with the Uchiha blood, and is being manifested on the eye.
  
• Kakashi's Sharingan couldn't be deactivated, right? And His was advanced to MS at the same time Obito did. Their eyes were always connected since both were Obito's Sharingan from the start. These questions arise:
  
  Spoiler

  How did Kakashi's Sharingan advance to MS if he didn't possess the Uchiha special chakra?
  Maybe, Obito's resonated with Kakashi's because it was emphasized how their Sharingan were
  connected. I'm not a heavy SHaringan fanboy, so idunno.
• Kaguya was also noted to have the Sharingan powers, not the Sharingan eye itself.
• Kaguya had Sharingan powers which became the Uchiha's bloodline ability and as time passed and the clan formed, the kekkei genkai became the Sharingan (eye).

Hyuuga KKG=Byakugan + unnamed tenketsu thingy

• Byakugan grants 360 vision and superior chakra perception
• Neji's Byakugan was able to see tenketsus, a feat that wasn't easily accessible to the common Hyuuga.
• It was also mentioned that the Hyuuga clan members can excel chakra from every tenketsu of their body, as opposed to other ninjas who can only expel chakra out from their hands and feet.
• Thus, they developed their own taijutsu style that make use of this innate ability and called it the Gentle fist (Jyuuken). With the help of the Byakugan, they can efficiently target the chakra pathway system.
• Kaguya has a Jyuuken reminiscent tech called the Eight God Palm Stuff hoho. It destroyed Sasuke's Susanoo, so it is safe to presume that it is some sort of Jyuuken tech, and by Jyuuken, I meant the chakra expelling KKG. Can someone already name that.
• Byakugan doesn't grant Jyuuken. Jyuuken techs can be considered as KKGs, not because they are granted by the Byakugan but because they are Hyuuga exclusive, tenketsu manipulation style.

Agree with all but the Jūken not being a kkg, its a Taijutsu kkg and can only be done with the Byakugan. Just like Kaguyas version is kkm and can only be done with her Byakugan.

Anyway Neji's technique is called Jūkenhō Ichigekishin (Gentle Fist Technique: Body Blow).

 

[HyuugaHeir]

Exactly..i had this discussion with one of the better Neji fans on here before. We know for a fact that chakra flows through Kidomaru's thread to make it thicker but when Neji sends Jyuuken into it, the Jyuuken chakra has a darker tint to it.

Spoiler

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I always felt gentle fist chakra was different since it makes no sense how it can destroy organs by inserting chakra into the opponent when chakra was already flowing around said organs in the first place but it can't be proven thanks to kishi completely relegating them to the sidelines.

Damagin internal organs are only an added effect, I think since the chakra circulatory system is kind of intertwined with the many blood vessels and vital organs of the human body.

God, being a Hyuuga fan requires smarts.

That is almost the same hypothesis as Kidgamer and me, hyuga have access to a different chakra than every other ninja.
And there is nothing that proves that this special chakra couldn' t originate from the byakugan.

Maybe because ninjutsu is created by kneading chakra to connect the inner spiritual and physical energies unlike the Jyuuken which exploits raw chakra, or chakra itself. It all comes down to chakra and how it is manufactured, produced and channeled. Chakra destroys chakra. But chakra destroys ninjutsu, hmmmm the only thing we have seen is that fight against Kidomaru, so it is hard to tell if it applies to everything.

 

[HyuugaHeir]

Exactly..i had this discussion with one of the better Neji fans on here before. We know for a fact that chakra flows through Kidomaru's thread to make it thicker but when Neji sends Jyuuken into it, the Jyuuken chakra has a darker tint to it.

Spoiler

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I always felt gentle fist chakra was different since it makes no sense how it can destroy organs by inserting chakra into the opponent when chakra was already flowing around said organs in the first place but it can't be proven thanks to kishi completely relegating them to the sidelines.

Damagin internal organs are only an added effect, I think since the chakra circulatory system is kind of intertwined with the many blood vessels and vital organs of the human body.

God, being a Hyuuga fan requires smarts.

That is almost the same hypothesis as Kidgamer and me, hyuga have access to a different chakra than every other ninja.
And there is nothing that proves that this special chakra couldn' t originate from the byakugan.

Maybe because ninjutsu is created by kneading chakra and/to connect the inner spiritual and physical energies unlike the Jyuuken which exploits raw chakra, or chakra itself. It all comes down to chakra and how it is manufactured, produced and channeled. Chakra destroys chakra. But chakra destroys ninjutsu, hmmmm the only thing we have seen is that fight against Kidomaru, so it is hard to tell if it applies to everything.

 

[jamarcusp17]

That is almost the same hypothesis as Kidgamer and me, hyuga have access to a different chakra than every other ninja.
And there is nothing that proves that this special chakra couldn' t originate from the byakugan.



I like this explanation.
A lot of members came with that hypothesis, that hypothesis has never been proven impossible.Your scan is a good sign that hyuga have access to different chakra.
That's a shame that Kishimoto didn' t explain the byakugan techniques.

Interesting. So are you saying that you have a theory that the Hyuga have 2 different KKG, the Byakugan and a different type of chakra? It's possible; I never thought about it like that.

I always thought that the Hyuga use pure chakra, while others use transformed chakra.

So, do you think that a Hyuga would be able to break a Nara's shadow binding by releasing chakra?

 

[HyuugaHeir]

Agree with all but the Jūken not being a kkg, its a Taijutsu kkg and can only be done with the Byakugan. Just like Kaguyas version is kkm and can only be done with her Byakugan.

Anyway Neji's technique is called Jūkenhō Ichigekishin (Gentle Fist Technique: Body Blow).

when I say Jyuuken, I mean the taijutsu style. maybe it really is a KKG afterall with the context that Jyuuken exploits chakra exclusive to how Hyuuga members do. But I disagree that it can only be done with the Byakugan.
I say time and time again. That Hyuuga developed the Gentle fist because of their innate ability to release chakra from every tenketsu of their body for the nth time. Using the Byakugan to see the chakra circulatory system as a whole, they perfect their taijutsu style.

So Tenketsu Feat gave birth to Jyuuken. Not the Byakugan.

 

[Holy God]

which would destroy anything made of Chakra.

As far as I'm concerned, Gentle Fist has never done this. Even Neji's attempted it and it failed.

it is only limited to those with a Hyuga bloodline.

lolno. It is in no way restricted to the Hyuuga. You yourself said it was a hiden, which means it is not restricted to clans but rather taught to the clan through generations.

I don't know where the rest of your post came from because I agree with it.

 

[HyuugaHeir]

Interesting. So are you saying that you have a theory that the Hyuga have 2 different KKG, the Byakugan and a different type of chakra? It's possible; I never thought about it like that.

I always thought that the Hyuga use pure chakra, while others use transformed chakra.

So, do you think that a Hyuga would be able to break a Nara's shadow binding by releasing chakra?

I also wondered about this. Pardon my intrusion.
The 2KKG theory exists bec Hyuuga seemed to have that tenketsu ability which nobody else showed. And also that Jyuuken thing that destroys chakra made stuff. It is like we're being told that every ninjutsu can be rendered useless by Jyuuken techs albeit lack of ample evidence.

 

[Jinrou]

Damagin internal organs are only an added effect, I think since the chakra circulatory system is kind of intertwined with the many blood vessels and vital organs of the human body.

God, being a Hyuuga fan requires smarts.

My point exactly. Why should it damage internal organs by channeling chakra into a chakra circulatory system that already has chakra flowing in it? The gentle fist seems to be like a poison type chakra imo but yeah like i said..no way to prove it.

 

[Hakke]

As far as I'm concerned, Gentle Fist has never done this. Even Neji's attempted it and it failed.

Neji statement was as clear as day, and when did the gentle fist failed?

lolno. It is in no way restricted to the Hyuuga. You yourself said it was a hiden, which means it is not restricted to clans but rather taught to the clan through generations.

well... you are right, I just thought that the ability to inject Chakra was granted with the Hyuga's genetics but I guess I was wrong

but still, using it is nearly impossible without a Byakugan. because you need to see the Chakra network to insert Chakra into it.

Spoiler

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[HyuugaHeir]

My point exactly. Why should it damage internal organs by channeling chakra into a chakra circulatory system that already has chakra flowing in it? The gentle fist seems to be like a poison type chakra imo but yeah like i said..no way to prove it.

I believe it is intended to disrupt the normal flow of chakra, rendering chakra control useless.

WIki entry on chakra control

Spoiler

Because chakra takes time and a great deal of training to gradually build up, the key to its use is not actually having large amounts of chakra but instead being able to sufficiently control and conserve it. This is called chakra control (チャクラコントロール , chakura kontorōru). In order to have good chakra control, a ninja should only mould as much chakra as they need to perform a given ability. If they mould more chakra than is needed, the excess chakra is wasted and they will tire out faster from its loss. If they don't mould enough chakra, a technique will not be performed effectively, if at all, likely creating problems in a combat situation.

disruption in chakra flow=overall harm

 

[TemplarKnight]

Neji statement was as clear as day, and when did the gentle fist failed?



well... you are right, I just thought that the ability to inject Chakra was granted with the Hyuga's genetics but I guess I was wrong

but still, using it is nearly impossible without a Byakugan. because you need to see the Chakra network to insert Chakra into it.

So you think that if Neji shoved his hand into a Fire Ball Jutsu it would destroy the technique?

 

[Holy God]

Neji statement was as clear as day, and when did the gentle fist failed?

Neji's statement must be some sort of hyperbole, because the Gentle Fist has never destroyed something made of chakra by injecting chakra into it.

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The one moment it is attempted,

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but still, using it is nearly impossible without a Byakugan. because you need to see the Chakra network to insert Chakra into it.

Nearly impossible, yes, but it can still be done through luck/practice. The Rinnegan can also see the pressure points.

 

[Mori Jin]

when I say Jyuuken, I mean the taijutsu style. maybe it really is a KKG afterall with the context that Jyuuken exploits chakra exclusive to how Hyuuga members do. But I disagree that it can only be done with the Byakugan.
I say time and time again. That Hyuuga developed the Gentle fist because of their innate ability to release chakra from every tenketsu of their body for the nth time. Using the Byakugan to see the chakra circulatory system as a whole, they perfect their taijutsu style.

So Tenketsu Feat gave birth to Jyuuken. Not the Byakugan.

Would their be Tenketsu feats without the byakugan? Is their any other Ninja or kkg that can see tenketsus?

The Byakugan is the only one that can see tenketsus, chakra network and direct chakra flow. They can also control their own and have one of the best chakra control, related to all this is their Taijutsu (which can only be done with a Byakugan, cause it's see the tenketsus), which works alongside their all seeing eyes. Just like Kamui and Susanoo etc are Ninjutsu kkg techniques for the sharingan, Jūken is a Taijutsu kkg that can only be done with the byakugan.

 

[Mori Jin]

Neji's statement must be some sort of hyperbole, because the Gentle Fist has never destroyed something made of chakra by injecting chakra into it.

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The one moment it is attempted,

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Nearly impossible, yes, but it can still be done through luck/practice. The Rinnegan can also see the pressure points.

Kaguya destroyed Sasukes Susanoo (chakra given form) with her overpowered version of the Jūken.

 

[Holy God]

Kaguya destroyed Sasukes Susanoo (chakra given form) with her overpowered version of the Jūken.

That's just pure overwhelming force though. If it was actually through injection, Naruto wouldn't have been able to match nor overwhelm her punches, as his would have "become meaningless".

 

[Mori Jin]

Neji's statement must be some sort of hyperbole, because the Gentle Fist has never destroyed something made of chakra by injecting chakra into it.

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The one moment it is attempted,

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Nearly impossible, yes, but it can still be done through luck/practice. The Rinnegan can also see the pressure points.

Rinnegan could only see the activated state of the Gate of Death. It was never said in the manga to be able to see all 361 chakra points. Only the Byakugan is able to do that.

 

[HyuugaHeir]

So you think that if Neji shoved his hand into a Fire Ball Jutsu it would destroy the technique?

I think common sense dictates us that even though Jyuuken is said to destroy chakra made stuff, one has to consider the dynamics of the jutsus.

A fire ball jutsu obviously uses nature transformation. Now chakra the Jyuuken might counter. As far as we are left with, Jyuuken is limited to the chakra vs chakra premise.

About Kidomaru

Spoiler

Kidōmaru had the ability to make spider webs by infusing his spit or sweat with chakra. He could use his webs to bind, trap, or sense enemies. These threads were extremely sticky, yet durable and elastic. This is because his chakra was constantly flowing through the webs, and is also why the threads could not be cut with normal tools such as kunai. However, the Gentle Fist can cut them, as the fighting style is based on using the user's chakra to attack precise points.

Now, I'm pretty confident that Fire Ball Jutsu workss differently from Kido's webs.

PS:

 

[Mori Jin]

That's just pure overwhelming force though. If it was actually through injection, Naruto wouldn't have been able to match nor overwhelm her punches, as his would have "become meaningless".

It was still the Jūken, what finger sized Jūkens going to do to a Perfect Susanoo? Nothing. So hers was a more chakra powered one that destroyed his chakra constrict.

 

[Holy God]

Rinnegan could only see the activated state of the Gate of Death. It was never said in the manga to be able to see all 361 chakra points. Only the Byakugan is able to do that.

Madara also saw when they were deactivated and running completely low on chakra. You could say the Rinnegan can't see all of them since such was never shown, but that really makes no sense logically and it was probably just so the readers know specifically which to focus on. Even if we consider that though, Gentle Fist can still be utilized on just those eight, especially since they're the most important.

 

[davidou]

Damagin internal organs are only an added effect, I think since the chakra circulatory system is kind of intertwined with the many blood vessels and vital organs of the human body.

God, being a Hyuuga fan requires smarts.



Maybe because ninjutsu is created by kneading chakra to connect the inner spiritual and physical energies unlike the Jyuuken which exploits raw chakra, or chakra itself. It all comes down to chakra and how it is manufactured, produced and channeled. Chakra destroys chakra. But chakra destroys ninjutsu, hmmmm the only thing we have seen is that fight against Kidomaru, so it is hard to tell if it applies to everything.

Has the manga ever talked about chakra and raw chakra?I think there is just standard chakra.
It is said that everyone has a different chakra signature, different standard chakra.
If any chakra could destroy chakra, why would neji be proud to say that his chakra destroys chakra?
My prefered hypothesis is that Hyuga can alter the properties of their standard chakra, destroying, blocking, infiltrating...

Interesting. So are you saying that you have a theory that the Hyuga have 2 different KKG, the Byakugan and a different type of chakra? It's possible; I never thought about it like that.

I always thought that the Hyuga use pure chakra, while others use transformed chakra.

So, do you think that a Hyuga would be able to break a Nara's shadow binding by releasing chakra?

It isn' t forced to be 2 KKG, the Byakugan can very well be the source of the special chakra.
I even came to think that they can alter the properties of their chakra after Neji vs Kidomaru (standard chakra, closing tenketsu chakra, destroying chakra or corrosive chakra...).