Islam: Is It Able To Be Reformed? How Do We Go About Reforming It?

[kimb]

I'm going to present both sides of the argument and clear the floor for people to discuss the topic. I believe both men provide valid points in their positions because there is truth in what they both advocate for. I'd be fine with taking action from either position, leaning more so towards reform, but I want to get everyone else's thoughts, experiences, and opinions on the issue, especially those who've had direct experience with the faith, are current practicing Muslims, or Ex-Muslims.

[TRY TO WATCH EACH VIDEO ENTIRELY BEFORE MAKING YOUR COMMENTS]​

In your responses try to keep these questions in mind;

• Is Islam able to be reformed?
• Should it be reformed?
• If so, how do we go about reforming it?

 

[Kushina89]

usa killed over 100 civilians with their new bomb.. do you hear people/media all over the net say shit? nah, it's just mulims
terrorist group (fund by said country above) kills people in the west and the whole world starts to be sad and what happens? hate against mulims because all their fault


reform? the ****... what we need is dumbasses to open their eyes and to see the secret services who are under zionist control are using islam as the villain to start a new ww, to implent the long awaited police state

 

[rollin]

Not really,all the Muslims I know are what you would consider "reformed"
There's many reasons why isis and other terrorists do what they do and religion is only a small part of it.its more of a political problem than a religious one.

I do agree more with the top video though

 

[Sagebee]

In the end of the day if you believe it needs reformation than the only step toward that is rational dialogue

Also Fiji do some research on the first guy you posted.

 

[Mori Jin]

No it don't people do Islam doesn't. People will talk about it needing to reform but it won't, they'll change though.

 

[kimb]

Not really,all the Muslims I know are what you would consider "reformed"
There's many reasons why isis and other terrorists do what they do and religion is only a small part of it.its more of a political problem than a religious one.

I do agree more with the top video though

They're not reformed, they're semi-secular.

 

[Uchihaa Sasuke]

Islam is the most hateful religion there is, its an ideology that is based on violence and hatred towards non-Muslims.
And no, Islam cannot reformed, it can only be removed.
removing the Islamic faith is the easiest, fastest and most effective way to get rid of the Islamic terrorism once and for all

 

[Ryóma]

Reform your brain first.

 

[kimb]

usa killed over 100 civilians with their new bomb.. do you hear people/media all over the net say shit? nah, it's just mulims
terrorist group (fund by said country above) kills people in the west and the whole world starts to be sad and what happens? hate against mulims because all their fault


reform? the ****... what we need is dumbasses to open their eyes and to see the secret services who are under zionist control are using islam as the villain to start a new ww, to implent the long awaited police state

I tried to say silent, but I can't let bullshit like this slide. Why does everyone side with this when reality literally contradicts everything you say? Can someone please honesty and earnestly explain this to me?

Explain to me how the mainstream media covers and condemns the usage of the M.O.B. and openly criticizes Trump and Obama for their intervention in the middle east from both leftist outlets and rightwing outlets, and the general public at large defend Muslims during any and all terrorist attacks, going as far to say they're the true victims of these incidence, and you can imply they ignore the issue or blame Muslims?

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Explain to me how you can claim that people online and the media claim "nah, it's just mulims" when you hold the popular opinion? Just go on twitter and search "Muslims"; the overwhelming amount of posts are DEFENDING Muslims. Any posts that try to attack Muslims is met with great condemnation or receive absolutely no support, but you will find comments receiving likes and reports in the hundreds with #NotAllMuslims, "This is not a Muslim attack, this is a terrorist attack". Yeah, you'll find hundreds of post attacking Muslims, but for every post you have attacking Muslims, you'll have 5 in place defending it. You hold the popular belief and opinion.

And explain to me why everyone jumps to terrorism as if terrorism is the only issue with Islam? Neither I nor the videos I've posted even mention terrorism. Do people believe terrorism and suicide bombings are the only horrors that come from Islam?

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[Sagebee]

I tried to say silent, but I can't let bullshit like this slide. Why does everyone side with this when reality literally contradicts everything you say? Can someone please honesty and earnestly explain this to me?

Explain to me how the mainstream media covers and condemns the usage of the M.O.B. and openly criticizes Trump and Obama for their intervention in the middle east from both leftist outlets and rightwing outlets, and the general public at large defend Muslims during any and all terrorist attacks, going as far to say they're the true victims of these incidence, and you can imply they ignore the issue or blame Muslims?

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Explain to me how you can claim that people online and the media claim "nah, it's just mulims" when you hold the popular opinion? Just go on twitter and search "Muslims"; the overwhelming amount of posts are DEFENDING Muslims. Any posts that try to attack Muslims is met with great condemnation or receive absolutely no support, but you will find comments receiving likes and reports in the hundreds with #NotAllMuslims, "This is not a Muslim attack, this is a terrorist attack". Yeah, you'll find hundreds of post attacking Muslims, but for every post you have attacking Muslims, you'll have 5 in place defending it. You hold the popular belief and opinion.

And explain to me why everyone jumps to terrorism as if terrorism is the only issue with Islam? Neither I nor the videos I've posted even mention terrorism. Do people believe terrorism and suicide bombings are the only horrors that come from Islam?

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You've already shown me you don't want real discussion, proof is the thread below so is your objective just to sway the jury?

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I'm not even going to assume you purposefully avoid real dialogue so if your really ignorant to it have a reread. Tbh the only reason I'm even checking you on this so you can catch yourself. And if its purposeful than understand a person of shaky foundation can only influence a person of shaky foundation. And that type of mentality is sustainable by reaffirmation not confrontation.

I hope you don't take me checking you personally and like I said in the other thread this is why I usually avoid serious topic because most people aren't really interested in discussion.​

 

[rollin]

Islam is the most hateful religion there is, its an ideology that is based on violence and hatred towards non-Muslims.
And no, Islam cannot reformed, it can only be removed.
removing the Islamic faith is the easiest, fastest and most effective way to get rid of the Islamic terrorism once and for all

All you have to do is step in a mosque for 20 minutes and realize that's a load of shit
I work next to a mosque and go in there all the time and no one cares that im not muslim nor do they try to convert me.its not a religious problem it's a political problem.
the only terrorist attack Im worried about is a right-wing extremist shooting up the mosque near my job because that's a political problem here.

Removing islam won't stop terrorism,hatred,or violence because its not exclusive to islam and islam is not the main reason.theres right-wing terrorism and left-wing terrorism That's just as bad if not worse

 

[ArabianLuffy]

Do you know?

In order for a young Muslim to go for "jihad", he/she must get the permission from his/her superior (like a king of country) and a permission from parents to go. Now, looking at most who joined ISIS, most of them who their parents still alive. Their parents don't want to. He who is a superior even didn't give the order of "holy struggle" that is jihad.

If you look at the king of Saudi Arabia, thinking of ordering for jihad takes much thought and it requires wisdom and to put into consideration that this decision comes with it consequences whether good or bad. Country, Makkah and Madinah, the people who live there in Saudi Arabia, the religion (Islam) that needs to be preserved from twist. Many things to be counted if a king thought of ordering for jihad.

The Palestinian who suffered for over 50 years of tyranny and injustice. If the king of Saudi Arabia ordered for the "Holy Jihad" to liberate Palestine from Israel, the Saudi people would gladly die for Palestine to liberate it. We're talking about over 10 million Saudi that will go on war against Israel. Count non-Saudi Muslims from other Arab countries and Muslims from non-Arabic countries. You can bet that it would reach 1 billion Muslim will go to Jihad. Men and women of all ages willingly to die to liberate Palestine.

The order, the decision of "Holy Jihad" is not something easy for a king of Saudi Arabia to decide on. And if he thought about it, he would be secretly and politically assassinated by his own government and other parties, and his death will be fabricated that he died of illness. Talk about corruption of highest level. Treason against a king. Did it happen? Yes. King Faisal.

This is not about Islam anymore. It's all about interests, and ignorants blame a religion. What is a religion? A bunch of teachings that have been misrepresented.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

The guy in the first video said reformation but seemed to be talking about secularizing when he said he didn't give a shit about specific rules as long as things aren't being imposed onto others.

As for the second video, I don't know why that guy thinks people are planning to revise the Qur'an in regards to reforming. No shit it's impossible. Even doing so with Christianity is impossible in the information age. You can reform how the Muslim chooses to follow the Qur'an. There are 72 sects after all and in midieval times scholars and philosophers have had their own interesting spins on religion.

 

[Lyke]

Islam is the most hateful religion there is, its an ideology that is based on violence and hatred towards non-Muslims.
And no, Islam cannot reformed, it can only be removed.
removing the Islamic faith is the easiest, fastest and most effective way to get rid of the Islamic terrorism once and for all

How you gonna do that? Bomb every one of 195 countries? Don't be mad if you die aswell if a muslim lives in your neighborhood

 

[Uchihaa Sasuke]

How you gonna do that? Bomb every one of 195 countries? Don't be mad if you die aswell if a muslim lives in your neighborhood

There's no need to bomb any Muslims besides the terrorist ones
These are the main reasons to why Islam survived until this day :
1- Fear of Allah's punishment which makes most Muslims afraid to even think about whether their religion is true or false, and that's why Quran focuses on hell fire and the punishments in the afterlife probably more than any other religion, to put Muslims in constant fear.
2- There's little to no criticize to the Islamic faith in the Muslim communities, and even when a few brave individuals dare to criticize Islam in the Muslim communities, they get demonized by the media.
3- Using the so called "Scientific miracles of the Quran", like claiming that black holes and the Prenatal development and other scientific discoveries were mentioned in the Quran before it was discovered, Muslims strengthen their belief with delusions.
4- Ignorance, most Muslims don't know about evolution, and many of them don't even know how to read and write.

Changing these 4 factors would deal a great damage to the religion of peace.

and how am I going to be mad if I died ?

 

[Lyke]

There's no need to bomb any Muslims besides the terrorist ones

You said removing islamic faith before, now you say only terrorists. How you gonna remove Islam withoht removing every muslim?

These are the main reasons to why Islam survived until this day :
1- Fear of Allah's punishment which makes most Muslims afraid to even think about whether there religion is true or false

I agree with this

and that's why Quran focuses on hell fire and the punishments in the afterlife probably more than any other religion, to put Muslims in constant fear.

I dont know about that

2- There's little to no criticize to the Islamic faith in the Muslim communities, and even when a few brave individuals dare to criticize Islam in the Muslim communities, they get demonized by the media.

Why would they critisize their own faith?

3- Using the so called "Scientific miracles of the Quran", like claiming that black holes and the Prenatal development and other scientific discoveries were mentioned in the Quran before it was discovered, Muslims strengthen their belief with delusions.
4- Ignorance, most Muslims don't know about evolution, and many of them don't even know how to read and write.

That is why its called Belief, everything has its roots so it is absolutely understandable to rely on God to answer questions humans dont fully understand

 

[Uchihaa Sasuke]

You said removing islamic faith before, now you say only terrorists. How you gonna remove Islam withoht removing every muslim?

Islamic faith and Muslim people are two separate things
If non-Muslims worked on convincing Muslims that Islam is a false religion, wouldn't that be considered a removal of Islam ?

 

[Lyke]

Islamic faith and Muslim people are two separate things
If non-Muslims worked on convincing Muslims that Islam is a false religion, wouldn't that be considered a removal of Islam ?

Of course, but what are the chances that 1.3 billion muslims gonna agree?

 

[Uchihaa Sasuke]

Of course, but what are the chances that 1.3 billion muslims gonna agree?

Changing the four factors mentioned above would help.

 

[Lyke]

Changing the four factors mentioned above would help.

And how? That is my question