This always amazes me because while I understand why Sakura would be disliked in part 1 since she literally did not have any abilities I do not understand why they try to replace her with another pathetic character in Hinata. If you really look at what Hinata did in part one the only thing she did was got her butt kicked by Neji. She literally did nothing else except maybe say a few words to try to cheer Naruto up which he really didn't need anyway. She does not do a single useful thing in support of her team either except try to cheat for Naruto and potentially get her team disqualified.
She was a lot better written then most of the Konohagakure females who only lusted after Sasuke. Plus, she had an indirect connection the Main Character which felt, real. Especially in a team where Naruto and Sasuke's forced dynamic rivalry was all over the place, and Sakura herself was a giant mess.
Hinata had an actual story line which connected herself, Naruto, and Neji together, and was the pivotal piece in the Hyuuga establishing arc during the Chunin Exams. I don't really fault her for losing to Neji, she's a failure just like Naruto, she was kicked out of her clan, and she was cast away from her family. These are interesting dynamics you could play with in a Team where Naruto was an outcast in the entire Village because of being a Jinchuriki, and where Sasuke felt alone because his entire family was killed.
She shares Naruto's feelings in being useless, and she shares Sasuke's feelings in being alone. All while adding her own dynamic of being more afraid, and unwilling than Naruto, added the fact that she's completely untalented.
Not to mention in the long run with her connection to the Hyuuga Clan which became pivotal through the Otsutsuki (mainly the Byakugan/Kaguya/Hamura) she could of been put to use better, way better.
She was a lot better written then most of the Konohagakure females who only lusted after Sasuke. Plus, she had an indirect connection the Main Character which felt, real. Especially in a team where Naruto and Sasuke's forced dynamic rivalry was all over the place, and Sakura herself was a giant mess.
Hinata had an actual story line which connected herself, Naruto, and Neji together, and was the pivotal piece in the Hyuuga establishing arc during the Chunin Exams. I don't really fault her for losing to Neji, she's a failure just like Naruto, she was kicked out of her clan, and she was cast away from her family. These are interesting dynamics you could play with in a Team where Naruto was an outcast in the entire Village because of being a Jinchuriki, and where Sasuke felt alone because his entire family was killed.
She shares Naruto's feelings in being useless, and she shares Sasuke's feelings in being alone. All while adding her own dynamic of being more afraid, and unwilling than Naruto, added the fact that she's completely untalented.
Not to mention in the long run with her connection to the Hyuuga Clan which became pivotal through the Otsutsuki (mainly the Byakugan/Kaguya/Hamura) she could of been put to use better, way better.
Yeah I do not agree with almost any of that at all. I am shocked just how much you are wanking the garbage that is Hinata. Hinata is almost just as bad as Sakura being completely obsessed with Naruto instead of Sasuke. Yeah she might have better reasons to like him but she is just as one dimensional as Sakura in that facet. In part one the interesting parts of the Hyuga story mostly focused on Neji and Hinata was really just there to set his development up. Plus having a teammate that does not have a sad backstory is actually a good thing to contrast it with Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi who all were tragic orphans. Its just by him not actually developing Sakura properly and actually showing her with her family the contrast does not work out in the way it should. Frankly I would have just rathered Hanabi be the older sister and from what little we saw then maybe we would have actually had a good female character.
Yeah I do not agree with almost any of that at all. I am shocked just how much you are wanking the garbage that is Hinata. Hinata is almost just as bad as Sakura being completely obsessed with Naruto instead of Sasuke. Yeah she might have better reasons to like him but she is just as one dimensional as Sakura in that facet. In part one the interesting parts of the Hyuga story mostly focused on Neji and Hinata was really just there to set his development up. Plus having a teammate that does not have a sad backstory is actually a good thing to contrast it with Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi who all were tragic orphans. Its just by him not actually developing Sakura properly and actually showing her with her family the contrast does not work out in the way it should.
@Bold , so wait.. having a character that made fun of someone for being an Orphan *cough* Sakura, is better than a character with a sad back story that knows what it feels like to be an outcast ??!
**** logic :sdo:
Frankly I would have just rathered Hanabi be the older sister and from what little we saw then maybe we would have actually had a good female character.
Probably. But at least in that regard, it makes sense. Hinata doesn't have a family, Sakura does. Sasuke treats Sakura bad, Naruto doesn't treat his friends bad.
I could go on with this, but, at least her love makes sense.
Not really. The main core story of Neji and Hinata dealt with their fathers, and how Neji's dad sacrificed himself in Hinata's father stead. Not to mention the fact that Neji, who was born in the lower branch, was far talented than Hinata, who was born in the main branch.
There was even a side story to this where Hinata was kidnapped by Kumogakure ninja which started the entire conflict between the cousins. There was a good balance between Hinata and Neji, the setup was definitely between Naruto v. Neji though. Since he was the only one who could rival him.
Plus having a teammate that does not have a sad backstory is actually a good thing to contrast it with Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi who all were tragic orphans. Its just by him not actually developing Sakura properly and actually showing her with her family the contrast does not work out in the way it should. Frankly I would have just rathered Hanabi be the older sister and from what little we saw then maybe we would have actually had a good female character.
That's not true. Sakura was objectively the worst part of Team Kakashi and the story - You literally had no argument for it at all. And the worst part is that you said Hanabi would be better, who would offer no dynamic between Naruto and Sasuke. She was a six year old Hyuuga clan girl who is talented, and being raised to be the next Hyuuga Clan leader..
Hinata trains which is beneficial to the team, she is kind to her friends and allies, she not aggressive to her friends and lastly she doesn't break friendship for boys.
Hinata doesn't go beating kids and friends up.
I say that is way better.
Hinata may have been weak in part 1, but she trained. Sakura on the other hand didn't train even when her crush suggested to train.
Sakura felt useless yet didn't train, that what make her bad along with breaking friendship and punching her friends.
Hinata trains which is beneficial to the team, she is kind to her friends and allies, she not aggressive to her friends and lastly she doesn't break friendship for boys.
Hinata doesn't go beating kids and friends up.
I say that is way better.
Hinata may have been weak in part 1, but she trained. Sakura on the other hand didn't train even when her crush suggested to train.
Sakura felt useless yet didn't train, that what make her bad along with breaking friendship and punching her friends.
Hinata was forced to train from a young age by her family and still is as weak as trash. Also as far Hinata being so nice she is the one that watched Naruto suffer as a kid and used it to make herself feel better about herself and still did nothing to help him out from his loneliness. That is worse than being mean to people you do not really care about. She knew he was suffering and did nothing to help him.
Probably. But at least in that regard, it makes sense. Hinata doesn't have a family, Sakura does. Sasuke treats Sakura bad, Naruto doesn't treat his friends bad.
I could go on with this, but, at least her love makes sense.
Part 1 Hinata was far from being one dimensional like Sakura. Part 2 Hinata, I can't disagree.
Not really. The main core story of Neji and Hinata dealt with their fathers, and how Neji's dad sacrificed himself in Hinata's father stead. Not to mention the fact that Neji, who was born in the lower branch, was far talented than Hinata, who was born in the main branch.
There was even a side story to this where Hinata was kidnapped by Kumogakure ninja which started the entire conflict between the cousins. There was a good balance between Hinata and Neji, the setup was definitely between Naruto v. Neji though. Since he was the only one who could rival him.
That's not true. Sakura was objectively the worst part of Team Kakashi and the story - You literally had no argument for it at all. And the worst part is that you said Hanabi would be better, who would offer no dynamic between Naruto and Sasuke. She was a six year old Hyuuga clan girl who is talented, and being raised to be the next Hyuuga Clan leader..
I am saying that having everyone on the team with tragic back stories get's stale and can be kind of boring, Having someone with a normal life when they start out can be a good way to set up the team. It's just he did not focus on it or develop it in a way that was good. Also the reason I wanted Hanabi is she comes across as someone that is skilled and would kick butt. What team seven really needed for a third member was not someone that was weak and just used for the romance side story but actually competent skill wise and able to hold their own in combat. Hopefully it seems like the new team seven is much more balanced with all the members being quite strong in their own right.
Hinata gave up on her training for long periods of time even when her father was pushing her to train. Also maybe if Kakashi was not a garbage sensei he would have taken interest in making Sakura stronger and either trained her himself or found someone else to train her. Instead she had to seek out Tsunade to train her at the end of part 1. Just admit that considering the position Hinata was in as the future head of the Hyuga clan she should have been strong but instead was weak as crap with her only goal in life being a housewife to Naruto.
=Lady Byakugan;21273611]Kishimoto admitted he didn't develop Sakura because he knew people hated her and knew people wouldn't take an interest in her if the manga focused on her, unlike with Hinata, where he knew she was popular and kept getting popular even with her massive absence from the manga at times. So yeah, arguing that it would still be the same because its Kishimoto is pretty flawed when he deleibrately ignored Sakura due to people hating her, which is not the case with Hinata.
Did he really say this in the exact manner as you are implying here? or are you just inventing your own words of an interview over a character you hate?
provide the source and even if it did, it is irrelevant to my point. if you are replacing sakura then do so with an actual good character, not another thrash
Neji and Hinata were more or less on the same level in noteworthiness in the manga. Neji has his fight with Hinata, Naruto, Kidomaru, and his death. Hinata has her fight with Neji, speech to Naruto, her confession, Neji's death speech, and the Last.
Yes but when i said noteworthy i was speaking more in terms of combat. Nejis skills were supreme as he was a genius who taught himself hyuuga techniques that not many in the main family could even use i believe was stated. so its easy to see with him that with more development he would have been an outstanding shinobi as he had a solid base with the little spot light he had. he would have been useful. On the other hand, hinata was a bonafide failure getting outshone by her younger sister, dominated by Neji(as expected) and basically that was it for her in part 1. in their battle, all what she was praised for was her courage after naruto cheered her on. there was hardly any comment about her skill, the one who received all the plaudits in that department was neji. so i dont see why people think she will be some major asset in team 7. sure byakugan would be useful, but it means nothing if the ability of the actual shinobi wielding it is sub par. they don't need another romance-centric character who would be a hindrance in battle
This doesn't make sense at all. If you actually observe Hinata's character in part 1, before she was turned into a trophy wife for the Savior of the World, her character was the same as Naruto (gaining acknowledgement) and Lee (becoming stronger despite many failures) and Choji (burden of being Clan's next leader & lack of self-confidence), all characters who got proper development, and what a shocker, all of who were male characters.
No her character was mostly getting acknowledgment by naruto, all the other things you mentioned is simply secondary to that. in the authors eyes that was the sole purpose of her creation. don't delude yourself. be happy, as she finally got to touch his hand(which felt warm :lol my sides) and have his kids. that's her entire worth afterall
Don't care about the quoting the rest as this subject does not interest me so ill leave it at that
Did he really say this in the exact manner as you are implying here? or are you just inventing your own words of an interview over a character you hate? provide the source and even if it did, it is irrelevant to my point. if you are replacing sakura then do so with an actual good character, not another thrash
Can't give links, just type Kobayashi kishimoto interview, click first link.
And who'd be a better replacement than Hinata?
Yes but when i said noteworthy i was speaking more in terms of combat. Nejis skills were supreme as he was a genius who taught himself hyuuga techniques that not many in the main family could even use i believe was stated.
Of course they were, the whole point of Neji and Hinata's dynamic was that the branch member was superior to the main member.
so its easy to see with him that with more development he would have been an outstanding shinobi as he had a solid base with the little spot light he had. he would have been useful.
Why are you acting like power is all there is to a character's development?
On the other hand, hinata was a bonafide failure getting outshone by her younger sister, dominated by Neji(as expected) and basically that was it for her in part 1.
That was the point of her character, just like Lee and Naruto, but unlike them, her character went no where beyond Part 1 for reasons you're well aware of. :lol How do you NOT see the hypocrisy in your posts, pal?
No her character was mostly getting acknowledgment by naruto, all the other things you mentioned is simply secondary to that. in the authors eyes that was the sole purpose of her creation. don't delude yourself.
Not deluding myself, fam, I know all Kishimoto cared for with Hinata was her love with Naruto, think I even recall him saying he likes her chest (wtf). However, let's assume we have a competent author here. All the other facets of her character would have gotten development.
Her desire to becoming stronger, which would mean more fight scenes and feats for her.
Her relationship with Neji, seeing how they would grow close.
Her relationship with Hiashi, considering the guy went from not caring if she dies to .... something.
Her relationship with Hanabi, which is mostly non-existent.
Her role as heiress, which is dropped off the face of the manga.
Her role as leader to get rid of the Caged Bird Seal.
Her character is practically the same as Lee's in her being outshined by Neji, along with her having similarities with Naruto in wanting acknowledgment, Sasuke in feeling alone, and Choji in their role as the next heads of their clans and becoming more confident in themselves. Funny how all of these characters ended up getting better development than her despite her having the same general story as them. Wonder why?
I'm shocked you can't see the POTENTIAL in Hinata's character. No one's talking of what she ended up becoming by the end of P2, but what she could have been if she was an MC.
Hinata is almost just as bad as Sakura being completely obsessed with Naruto instead of Sasuke.
Yeah, that explains why she's shown training with her team mates and even on her own all the time and why she only went to see Naruto off when Neji prompted her.
Yeah she might have better reasons to like him but she is just as one dimensional as Sakura in that facet.
Likewise for Itachi and Sasuke in Part 1, Itachi could be said to be nothing more than a reason for Sasuke to turn evil. Doesn't make it any less important.
In any case, Hinata did have her own parts in the story, such as being the heiress, meaning the responsibility of getting rid of the caste system would have befallen on her, improving herself as a ninja, like Lee and Naruto, and bettering her bonds with her family.
Plus having a teammate that does not have a sad backstory is actually a good thing to contrast it with Naruto, Sasuke, and Kakashi who all were tragic orphans.
I can't believe this argument is still being brought up in 2017. No, this would never work. Even if we take characters like Choji, Shikamaru, and Lee, who had normal lives yet still had good development, making them MCs would still make them come off as out of place on Team 7. If 3/4 of them are going to have tragic lives, the 4th should follow.
Frankly I would have just rathered Hanabi be the older sister and from what little we saw then maybe we would have actually had a good female character
Hanabi, who has no character outside of The Last, versus Hinata, who has similarities and connections in her story to Neji, Hiashi, Naruto, Lee, Sasuke, and Choji, would be a worse potential heroine? lmao!!
It's so funny that you call Hinata a plot device for Neji when she VERY CLEARLY had her own character arc going on, when Hanabi is in fact the one who's nothing more than a plot device for Hinata's story.
The reason he neglected Sakura was because he knew people hated her. He also knew people loved Hinata. So yeah, there would have been a major difference.
Sakura had a lot of potential in her character, Kishi just didn't give af about it.
I'd love to hear of Sakura's potential without having to completely break down and reconstruct her character. Mind sharing? Because I know I can make Hinata relevant throughout the entire series without having to change her character.
lol wtf, this entire post is opinion. There is absolutely no factual data that suggests Hinata would be better.
Sakura could have been a great character, just as Hinata could have been. We saw that she could have even been a great fighter in the beginning of Shippuden, and she had all the tools to mature into a strong heroine. Any character can be great if the author is competent.
She's bad because Kishi made her bad, which is my point. Hinata could have had the best chracteristics given to her, but she still would've been trash, just like she is now.
Saying she would have been any different is delusional. Lmao, the funny thing is how people talk about her maturing her love for Naruto and how that could have been a great story, yet they trash Sakura for not doing so with Sasuke, not realizing that Kishi would have done the exact same thing to Hinata.
lol wtf, this entire post is opinion. There is absolutely no factual data that suggests Hinata would be better.
Sakura could have been a great character, just as Hinata could have been. We saw that she could have even been a great fighter in the beginning of Shippuden, and she had all the tools to mature into a strong heroine. Any character can be great if the author is competent.
She's bad because Kishi made her bad, which is my point. Hinata could have had the best chracteristics given to her, but she still would've been trash, just like she is now.
Saying she would have been any different is delusional. Lmao, the funny thing is how people talk about her maturing her love for Naruto and how that could have been a great story, yet they trash Sakura for not doing so with Sasuke, not realizing that Kishi would have done the exact same thing to Hinata.
Lol, what the Hell did I just read. Kishimoto has said on many accounts that Hinata's little screen time overshadowed Sakura, and that he was thinking about making her the heroine instead because she was favored in the fandom.
Case in point, Hinata would of been a better addition to the team because people liked her more.
Lastly, I don't really care about ideas of Sakura or Hinata being better than they are. Both are horrible characters because their only goals are sucking main character ****. Kishimoto had no other use for them, Kishimoto even stated that he was thinking originally for Sakura to be as important as someone like Kiba
The reason he neglected Sakura was because he knew people hated her. He also knew people loved Hinata. So yeah, there would have been a major difference.
I'd love to hear of Sakura's potential without having to completely break down and reconstruct her character. Mind sharing? Because I know I can make Hinata relevant throughout the entire series without having to change her character.
Yeah, no shit. Easy af to like a character that comes out for 5 min. People hated Sakura because Kishi is shit at making female characters. That's the entire point of my post.
Lol, what the Hell did I just read. Kishimoto has said on many accounts that Hinata's little screen time overshadowed Sakura, and that he was thinking about making her the heroine instead because she was favored in the fandom.
Case in point, Hinata would of been a better addition to the team because people liked her more.
Lastly, I don't really care about ideas of Sakura or Hinata being better than they are. Both are horrible characters because their only goals are sucking main character ****. Kishimoto had no other use for them, Kishimoto even stated that he was thinking originally for Sakura to be as important as someone like Kiba
People liked her more because she wasn't the heroine, she didn't have to live up to Naruto and Sasuke, she didn't have to have any kind of character development, she didn't have any decent amount of screen time. It's precisely because she wasn't the heroine that people liked her. Hinata could have been a literal plank and people would have liked her more than a character they hate.
Give Kishi any women to be a heroine and everyone will hate her.
You ever seen Planet Sheen? The side character from Jimmy Neutron; who was great, funny, and a favorite to many; couldn't last more than 2 seasons because his show was ****ing terrible. My point is that creating a side character is much easier than a main, and stating that a side character would be a great main because of popularity is complete ignorance.
Hinata being a vastly(emphasis on the bold) superior character to sakura is now factual? Lmao what?. this is hinata for crying out loud, someone who is right up there with the worst in terms of irrelevancy. what is this wanking smh
Hinata being a vastly(emphasis on the bold) superior character to sakura is now factual? Lmao what?. this is hinata for crying out loud, someone who is right up there with the worst in terms of irrelevancy. what is this wanking smh
Yeah, no shit. Easy af to like a character that comes out for 5 min. People hated Sakura because Kishi is shit at making female characters. That's the entire point of my post.
Read above for the first line.
People liked her more because she wasn't the heroine, she didn't have to live up to Naruto and Sasuke, she didn't have to have any kind of character development, she didn't have any decent amount of screen time. It's precisely because she wasn't the heroine that people liked her. Hinata could have been a literal plank and people would have liked her more than a character they hate.
Give Kishi any women to be a heroine and everyone will hate her.
You ever seen Planet Sheen? The side character from Jimmy Neutron; who was great, funny, and a favorite to many; couldn't last more than 2 seasons because his show was ****ing terrible. My point is that creating a side character is much easier than a main, and stating that a side character would be a great main because of popularity is complete ignorance.
Yeah, no shit. Easy af to like a character that comes out for 5 min. People hated Sakura because Kishi is shit at making female characters. That's the entire point of my post.
How does Hinata's little panel time and people liking her correlate at all? You're saying people like her so damn much to the point that she's more popular than Sakura because she doesn't show up much? Guess Ayame must be more beloved than either then :lol
You also said she had potential to be a great character. Again, mind telling me how that would work without breaking apart her character and rebuilding it to be something completely different?
She didn't have to have any kind of character development,
Wrong, plenty of people hate Hinata because she lack's any visible character development. Her character was about gaining acknowledgment from her clan, becoming a stronger person and ninja, regaining her place as heiress, growing closer to Naruto, and mending her bonds with her family, potentially leading to the caste system in the Hyuga Clan being done a way with.
Instead, none of this happens, or if it does happen, it's given very little attention on-panel and is mostly dealt with off screen and the readers are just forced to accept it. Like, we're just supposed to believe Hiashi and her have become closer despite him saying he wouldn't care if she died, we're supposed to believe the databooks when they say Hinata has become a stronger ninja despite a lack of legitimate feats. We're supposed to just believe Hinata suddenly loves Naruto when there was no build up to it. These are all things Hinata could have developed in as a character.
Give Kishi any women to be a heroine and everyone will hate her.
Let's assume Kishimoto wrote Sakura and Hinata properly, Hinata would still be the better character since Sakura's character never had any sort of direction to move towards, no ties and similarities to Naruto and Sasuke, no interesting move pool, or even her own story arc.