Perspective -- The better Hokage candidate; Itachi or Madara?

[LuckyMan]

You guys are talking about Dark Madara. Madara wasn't always a dark man who wanted to take over the world. He was a kind and loving man who cared deeply about his villagers lives and peace/prosperity. Itachi was more wise than Madara? GTFO. Madara was a boy with ideals that even his and Hashiramas father weren't wise enough to see and realize. Madara created the very world Itachi wanted to protect so much.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

I dislike both but EASILY Madara.

If you consider Hashirama a good kage (...he was the best one) then you have to say the same about pre-fallout Madara. Konoha was both of their dreams.

Madara was only pushed into contradictory psychopathy due to being cast out. He's shallow but commanded respect and truly cared for his clan and thus his people. It was just as much his dream and if the roles had been reversed, Hashirama (considered the truest Kage ever) could've left the village and sworn revenge.

Itachi is wise but when pushed he would sacrifice / manipulate / psychologically abuse his people. Taking everything onto himself is a self-confessed mistake and one that'd be the downfall of a nation for a while on a bigger scale than just Uchiha family drama.

 

[Pretentious]

Madara understood humanity's nature, unlike his fellow shinobi who thought that peace could be served on a plate with a drink on the side if it looked tasty enough. Itachi while fighting Kabuto stated that he was a proud shinobi of the Leaf regardless of any contradictions or hypocrisies within the village, which I find vile and threatening while Madara called Konoha out after the Infinite Tsukuyomi was casted, which angered Sakura.

Being a more experienced leader has it's perks and benefits, just being intelligent and intellectual doesn't make you an immediately good leader. Although both of these two men understand pressure, Madara was the head of one of the two most powerful clans in the Narutoverse, he knows something about leadership.

If Madara had been in charge in the time of the Uchiha's malcontent with the village, he would have adressed both sides, the Uchiha for their pompous attitude and separation of themselves from the village, and the village for immediately branding the Uchiha as the perpetrators of the largest tragedy in Konoha's history. Madara was willing to manipulate and destroy the life of one his own clan members, his heavy bias toward his clan would have probably dissolved after years of being Hokage.

@Bold, a foolish claim, that or ignorance in Itachi's own intuition. Itachi understood humanity all too well, had you not noticed the entirety of his quotes were about humanity? The difference between Itachi, and Madara is the simply notion that one thought everything could be achieved solely by self action for a time, whilst the other still believed such a notion was key.

Naturally Itachi's humility, and pride were targeted toward his birth village, Itachi saw potential in everyone (hence, why he reformed Kabuto) -- Also, you do realize that "contradictions, and hypocrisies" are perceived differently from one individual, to the next. The village from one perspective could've been the picture of perfection, whilst in another's eyes the village had been a corrupt establishment. Itachi also realized that forgiveness was the first step in reformation, without such Konoha would've been unable to establish ties with Sunagakure for their allied attack with enemy forces in Part I.

Madara has never shown qualities of a sufficient leader, especially not by starting an Autocracy; a ruler, or tyrant (perspective driven) fits more-so.

Itachi's actions alone show him to be a more capable leader if offered the position of Hokage. Acting from the shadows in Konoha's behalf (in a manner more refined that Danzo's naturally), alongside his pacifistic notions, and walls of limitation. Being a pacifist, unlike Madara would lead to less ignorance, and a more strategic, well-thought out solvent.

Madara's arrogance also plays a key role in Itachi being the superior choice for Hokage candidacy. Madara's arrogance made him out to be a fool in the end (i.e. Zetsu betraying Madara) -- If Itachi had been in Madara's steed, such a traitorous outcome would've never came to fruition; clearly.

@Second bold: "Probably." Itachi harbored no bias for his clan, or the village, merely a clairvoyant intuition of right, and wrong. Madara as shown through the manga would've undoubtedly clung to the Uchiha bringing them to power exceeding all other clans -- This would naturally cause jealously, and jealously leads to confrontation. Acts we've seen come to surface before.

Madara being in power over Itachi would cause much more significant problems than if Itachi were so.

 

[Pretentious]

Note, if I ignore your reply to this thread after I've quoted it formerly than that suggests your limited perspective has turned me off of discussing this with you.

 

[sayian]

Itachi, this shouldn't even be debatable. Sasuke, hiruzen and hashirama praised him to be a better ninja than them all.

 

[Nagi]

Madara would be a better pick before he lost his shit. He would've been the perfect Shield and Sword for hidden leaf village. But after a while, he would've been too perfect of hokage. People would say he is too Alien to his people, cold hearted, and look at everything as calculation decision to advance the village.

Then people will start to turn against him, and plot against him.

Ha, This reminded me of Saber(king Arturia) from Fate/stay. perfect king, but never understood how his people felt. However, it was his people's fault for asking for the perfect king. Saber delivered in such time. Then people started to complain about how antisoical she is. which led them to turn against Saber.


Itachi....I feel like he would be the Sinbad of NV. Everything would be peaceful, but the village will never know the shit he done in the shadow to bring about that peace.

 

[Pretentious]

Madara Uchiha,
To be a Kage is to do best for your village...

I definitely know that Madara won't compromise on his village and wouldn't slaughter his own for a 'bigger' purpose.

Your perspective is limited, and shrouded by bias. If killing your own (the Uchiha clan consisted of a mere hundred or so) saves the lives of thousands of innocent than such is just.

Itachi hadn't a choice, as if he'd not gone through his clan, along with the village would've both experienced casualties. Think about this using a more open perspective.

Dumbest thread question I've seen in awhile.
yes, let's pick the guy who abandoned his village because he got butthurt over what tobirama said

Your comment in this thread wasn't required then, nor was it welcomed if your feeble mind cannot grasp that everyone has different opinions. Or are you just to immature to understand such a consensus?

I guess Madara is more suited to the work taken care by danzo on the other hand itachi can make people follow him and we know that he was quite popular among Uchiha before that incident so he would be a better leader...Itachi would be just like minato I guess

Itachi, and Minato in the same aspect of leadership isn't a good analogy. Itachi would be a much better leader than Minato; naturally Minato was good in his own right.

I dislike both but EASILY Madara.

If you consider Hashirama a good kage (...he was the best one) then you have to say the same about pre-fallout Madara. Konoha was both of their dreams.

Madara was only pushed into contradictory psychopathy due to being cast out. He's shallow but commanded respect and truly cared for his clan and thus his people. It was just as much his dream and if the roles had been reversed, Hashirama (considered the truest Kage ever) could've left the village and sworn revenge.

Itachi is wise but when pushed he would sacrifice / manipulate / psychologically abuse his people. Taking everything onto himself is a self-confessed mistake and one that'd be the downfall of a nation for a while on a bigger scale than just Uchiha family drama.

There is nothing "easy" about this, I pray you open your perspective on the next reply, as I can see you're quite bias with the statement regarding Hashirama being the best hokage which is objectively to others incorrect.

In the end, Madara loathed for Autocracy, even before he was perceived "evil." -- I've no idea why you've stated Itachi abused "his people," everything he'd done was to make Sasuke refined in a sense, and clearly such succeeded in the end (i.e. Adult Sasuke) -- Itachi would never have sacrificied the Uchiha clan if such wasn't necessary, read my first reply regarding this quote answering why Itachi did what he did against the Uchiha. Innocence is the key answer.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Note, if I ignore your reply to this thread after I've quoted it formerly than that suggests your limited perspective has turned me off of discussing this with you.

Get out of your own ass, will you?

I'm sure NB will cope without hearing your two cents to every post :')

 

[Pretentious]

Get out of your own ass, will you?

I'm sure NB will cope without hearing your two cents to every post :')

You can redirect this rhetorical statement back at yourself in regards to this post. Still quite brine I see from our past "feuds." Quote me again with such childish nonsense, and you won't get a reply. Grow up.

 

[Darth AniCetuS]

Itachi ofc.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Your perspective is limited, and shrouded by bias. If killing your own (the Uchiha clan consisted of a mere hundred or so) saves the lives of thousands of innocent than such is just.

Itachi hadn't a choice, as if he'd not gone through his clan, along with the village would've both experienced casualties. Think about this using a more open perspective.



Your comment in this thread wasn't required then, nor was it welcomed if your feeble mind cannot grasp that everyone has different opinions. Or are you just to immature to understand such a consensus?




Itachi, and Minato in the same aspect of leadership isn't a good analogy. Itachi would be a much better leader than Minato; naturally Minato was good in his own right.




There is nothing "easy" about this, I pray you open your perspective on the next reply, as I can see you're quite bias with the statement regarding Hashirama being the best hokage which is objectively to others incorrect.

In the end, Madara loathed for Autocracy, even before he was perceived "evil." -- I've no idea why you've stated Itachi abused "his people," everything he'd done was to make Sasuke refined in a sense, and clearly such succeeded in the end (i.e. Adult Sasuke) -- Itachi would never have sacrificied the Uchiha clan if such wasn't necessary, read my first reply regarding this quote answering why Itachi did what he did against the Uchiha. Innocence is the key answer.

Adult Sasuke is the product of many people. Itachi, Naruto, Hashirama, Obito, Sakura, hell even Orochimaru and Danzo led him to the position he was able to make his first independent decision- free of everyone else.

I only stated Hashirama was the best in brackets, as in- my personal opinion. The point still stands if you think he's just a good one.

By abusing his people I meant that his plan involved traumatising the one he loved most through torture. Apologists can explain this away and even do a good job of it sometimes but that's dangerous planning ahead for a society. Committing horrible acts against/for your people thinking you know whats best for them is reminiscent of a couple of the world's most infamous leaders.

Honestly, no bias- because they're both my least favourite characters but if Itachi couldn't guide one person onto a good path successfully, how is he expected to apply his planning ahead/manipulation/intelligence to a whole village? If this was Edo Itachi? (Itachi with the ability of hindsight but somehow still alive) then yeah, he'd be the greatest short-lived Kage ever- much like Minato.

 

[Pretentious]

Madara would be a better pick before he lost his shit. He would've been the perfect Shield and Sword for hidden leaf village. But after a while, he would've been too perfect of hokage. People would say he is too Alien to his people, cold hearted, and look at everything a calculationto advance the village.

Then people will start to turn against him, and plot against him.

Ha, This reminded me of Saber(king Arturia) from Fate/stay. perfect king, but never understood how his people felt. However, it was his people's fault for asking for the perfect king. Saber delivered in such time. Then people started to complain about how antisoical she is. which led them to turn against Saber.


Itachi....I feel like he would be the Sinbad of NV. Everything would be peaceful, but the village will never know the shit he done in the shadow to bring about that peace.

Perfection doesn't exist, as opinions ruin the illusion of such a sentiment. Madara's true ideals were an Autocracy, one leader above all. Many would not agree to such notions, while others would, because as I've stated a many: peace & free will are mere facades. What people lust after is the illusion of peace; such is the creation of rule & law.

However, that's the misconception: "Itachi working in the shadows." Itachi learned that his former ways were incompetent, and that only through conjoined efforts would shinobi strive in the future. This is further established regarding his teachings to Naruto, Sasuke, and the reformation of Kabuto.

Itachi learned from his selfish bearing of the Uchiha clan's massacre, this is preached throughout the manga in his many appearances near, and far after his & Sasuke's final battle.

 

[Bad Touch Yakushi]

Sinbad is a perfect comparison and example actually. In Naruto terms, it's hard to bring about peace and unite the nations when you're playing right into a literal masterminds hands by doing so.

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And then there's the question of whether Sinbad is even truly a great leader or not. Does he actually care about peace or is it a facade for more security? Did Sinbad get lost along the way? Itachi's character never got to progress that far age-wise so it's impossible to tell.

Black Zetsu's existence means that all dark deeds, plotting and segregation is objectively wrong in the NV and it's a shame because it squashes the interesting morality issues as a result.

 

[whiteboy2345]

Your perspective is limited, and shrouded by bias. If killing your own (the Uchiha clan consisted of a mere hundred or so) saves the lives of thousands of innocent than such is just.

Your sheer arrogance in the idea of your way being the right way and everyone else's being incredibly limited is ridiculous, the hubris of it is baffling. While we bring up our points, you simply brush them aside, calling it limited or shrouded in ignorance while uplifting and extolling your own ideals, as though they are correct and all others wrong.

Itachi made the same exact mistake, by viewing everything from the perspective of the majority. Willing to slaughter an entire clan full of innocent people for the benefit of the majority. At what end do you say mercy and and force the majority to understand the gripes of the minority? You speak as though the entire clan was in on the coup when you know the unlikeliness of that is exceedingly high.

While Madara was willing to look at all perspectives and was able to understand how wrong war was for EVERYONE, Itachi was only willing to look at things from the perspective of the Hidden Leaf, willing to commit genocide if it meant preserving peace coated in the blood of infants and children.

 

[Pretentious]

Adult Sasuke is the product of many people. Itachi, Naruto, Hashirama, Obito, Sakura, hell even Orochimaru and Danzo led him to the position he was able to make his first independent decision- free of everyone else.

I only stated Hashirama was the best in brackets, as in- my personal opinion. The point still stands if you think he's just a good one.

By abusing his people I meant that his plan involved traumatising the one he loved most through torture. Apologists can explain this away and even do a good job of it sometimes but that's dangerous planning ahead for a society. Committing horrible acts against/for your people thinking you know whats best for them is reminiscent of a couple of the world's most infamous leaders.

Honestly, no bias- because they're both my least favourite characters but if Itachi couldn't guide one person onto a good path successfully, how is he expected to apply his planning ahead/manipulation/intelligence to a whole village? If this was Edo Itachi? (Itachi with the ability of hindsight but somehow still alive) then yeah, he'd be the greatest short-lived Kage ever- much like Minato.

Adult Sasuke is the byproduct of Itachi solely -- Look back at the person he did all of this for, and because of: Itachi. Itachi's manipulation regarding Sasuke was clearly established so that Sasuke could form bonds, and ideals based on other's, but not forget about who made such possible: Itachi.

Itachi was the main factor in how Sasuke turned out.

@Bold: You do realize one requires bias to dislike or like something correct? Itachi & Edo Itachi are no different -- This is clearly referencing the entirety the targeted characters, not just one instance.

It's difficult to argue this with you, because you limit your own perspective regarding Itachi.

 

[Pretentious]

Your sheer arrogance in the idea of your way being the right way and everyone else's being incredibly limited is ridiculous, the hubris of it is baffling. While we bring up our points, you simply brush them aside, calling it limited or shrouded in ignorance while uplifting and extolling your own ideals, as though they are correct and all others wrong.

Itachi made the same exact mistake, by viewing everything from the perspective of the majority. Willing to slaughter an entire clan full of innocent people for the benefit of the majority. At what end do you say mercy and and force the majority to understand the gripes of the minority? You speak as though the entire clan was in on the coup when you know the unlikeliness of that is exceedingly high.

While Madara was willing to look at all perspectives and was able to understand how wrong war was for EVERYONE, Itachi was only willing to look at things from the perspective of the Hidden Leaf, willing to commit genocide if it meant preserving peace coated in the blood of infants and children.

Arrogance? Perhaps you're referring to yourself, as I've noted both Itachi, and Madara both are worthy candidates -- Perhaps your excitement to ridicule me put that out of sight yes?

What you're not understanding is that Hiruzen & Danzo put Itachi in a lose/lose situation -- It was either kill the clan, or allow the clan to continue with their coup d'etat and be eliminated, along with being the cause for hundreds, maybe thousands of innocent village lives.

If you cannot grasp the tamer of the two evils, than it's as I stated: "Your perspective is limited."

 

[Nagi]

Perfection doesn't exist, as opinions ruin the illusion of such a sentiment. Madara's true ideals were an Autocracy, one leader above all. Many would not agree to such notions, while others would, because as I've stated a many: peace & free will are mere facades. What people lust after is the illusion of peace; such is the creation of rule & law.

However, that's the misconception: "Itachi working in the shadows." Itachi learned that his former ways were incompetent, and that only through conjoined efforts would shinobi strive in the future. This is further established regarding his teachings to Naruto, Sasuke, and the reformation of Kabuto.

Itachi learned from his selfish bearing of the Uchiha clan's massacre, this is preached throughout the manga in his many appearances near, and far after his & Sasuke's final battle.

Of course Perfection doesn't exist, but we, human always aim for it. Madara's true ideals wasn't an Autocracy. He was fine with sharing power. Hell honestly, I don't think he cared about how the power is shared as long his clan ain't kept out of affairs and he get a say at the table.

But after seeing other villages being diffcult to reach an agreement with the hidden leaf village, He decided to flex a bit and say obey the hidden leaf village. Which, you can't really blame him. Because all them other villages wasn't gonna fall in line so easily unless they're getting a great deal resource out of it. Hell, 2 of the nations desired war during that time.


Itachi was the really the perfect ninja in the shadow. But the problem was, he was too damn one sided(only thought of Hidden leaf's interests). If he had also killed Danzo on that very night, he would be the perfect Dark Knight.

I only think Madara is the best choice because of what he said to Hashi before he faked his death.

"You got it backward. It is not the village that comes before family and friends. It is the other way around"

This clearly showed that He can be a better leader than Hashi as long he have friends by his side to support him.

Hashi was the best "people's person" but was too drunk with his dream becoming a reality and never thought about the future outcome of certain clans.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Madara > Sasuke > Itachi

 

[Amenotejikara]

Your comment in this thread wasn't required then, nor was it welcomed if your feeble mind cannot grasp that everyone has different opinions. Or are you just to immature to understand such a consensus?


[/FONT]

@bold. Neither was this worthless thread :lol

Yes, i'm feeble because I believe it's obvious to choose one over some mentally weak raditz clone who couldn't even handle criticism and abandoned a friend (with the same goal mind you) then disrupted current peace to accomplish some idiotic matrix dream lol. I read comments in here calling itachi for being manipulated, no. unlike the joke ass madara, he had alot more BS to deal with, dealt with it with a logical choice and had no one else to rely on because A) elders were corrupt asf. B) Hiruzen was a joke. 3) cleaning up madara's mess in the first ****ing place.

 

[Pretentious]

Of course Perfection doesn't exist, but we, human always aim for it. Madara's true ideals wasn't an Autocracy. He was fine with sharing power. Hell honestly, I don't think he cared about how the power is shared as long his clan ain't kept out of affairs and he get a say at the table.

But after seeing other villages being diffcult to reach an agreement with the hidden leaf village, He decided to flex a bit and say obey the hidden leaf village. Which, you can't really blame him. Because all them other villages wasn't gonna fall in line so easily unless they're getting a great deal resource out of it. Hell, 2 of the nations desired war during that time.


Itachi was the really the perfect ninja in the shadow. But the problem was, he was too damn one sided(only thought of Hidden leaf's interests). If he had also killed Danzo on that very night, he would be the perfect Dark Knight.

I only think Madara is the best choice because of what he said to Hashi before he faked his death.

"You got it backward. It is not the village that comes before family and friends. It is the other way around"

This clearly showed that He can be a better leader than Hashi as long he have friends by his side to support him.

Hashi was the best "people's person" but was too drunk with his dream becoming a reality and never thought about the future outcome of certain clans.

Firstly, I want to voice how I appreciate you not bashing me for disagreement, or out of immaturity -- I simply wanted to have a differently perceived discussion. For that, I thank you.

I agree with the majority, except for the fact that family & friends won't always come before the village when innocent victims are at hand. Answer me this. If you were in Itachi's position being a lose/lose situation what would you have done?

Allow the Uchiha to let themselves be killed, and kill hundreds/thousands of innocent villagers, or slaughter the Uchiha, with the exception of your younger sibling?

I'd take the latter, as it's the most reasonable of the two "evils." The life of many > the life of few. Itachi suffered an inescapable burden. He did so out of love for his clan, and Sasuke (most of all).