Tsunade Versus Gokage Analysis

[Tazzilla88]

Few things.
Juugo is not Tsunade.
Tsunade's speed feats > Juugo's
Him Coming from behind is not her Right before hitting the ground

Oh and

We've seen the Katsuyu Tsunade can summon on her own, and it's the size of a Bijuu. Period.

Well that would be 1% Katsuyu.
Tsunade and Sakura summoned 10% Katsuyu
Tsunade can only summon 1% Katsuyu
Therefore Sakura can summon 9% Katsuyu

That is how your logic plays out. You're grasping at straws. But if you hold it to be true, I'll make sure to enter threads in which Sakura is facing opponents just to mention she summons 9% Katsuyu and I'll watch you be unable to backpedal


So has Ay always paused? Yes or No?
You WILL answer, as I posted databook proof. And still answered your questions, despite my claim being fully backed up by the manga.
If not, link a scan to a time in which he didn't do pause. If so, Ay is going to pause. There is this thing called pattern recognition for fighting and Ay's pattern is to pause. No use in denying that.

Tsunade is more than capable of making the hand seals quickly. Also you're acting like Tsunade getting hit is going to stop her from her task at hand, when Susanoo swords didn't stop her from attacking. This match up is decided and Tsunade won.

 

[Icelerate]

Let's not take scaling too literally. Kishi might have overdid it when he drew 10% Katsuyu. Tsunade had no reason to hold back when summoning Katsuyu during the Pain Arc.

 

[Tazzilla88]

Let's not take scaling too literally. Kishi might have overdid it when he drew 10% Katsuyu. Tsunade had no reason to hold back when summoning Katsuyu during the Pain Arc.

SO he didn't mean to compare 10% Katsuyu to the tree?

Also, a 5% Katsuyu wouldn't be necessary as there were enough Katsuyu minis that people were covered by multiples. Enough to protect the villagers from CST.

Perhaps she wanted to save more chakra for healing than summoning.


Pein arc Katsuyu was a tight fit, blocking up the street and even going down it. Maybe not squishing buildings was a concern. After all Pein arc Katsuyu seems smaller than the Sannin Katsuyu. Sannin Katsuyu was larger than Gamabunta. A summon the size of Gamabunta caused a lot of destruction

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

3 Completely plausible reasons

 

[RedRobin]

Let's not take scaling too literally. Kishi might have overdid it when he drew 10% Katsuyu. Tsunade had no reason to hold back when summoning Katsuyu during the Pain Arc.

Thats you just speculating. She was trying to preserve her chakra for the healing and knowing her village summoned the Katsuyu clone she thought could get the job well enough.

Not to mention he still had another 7 years to write things and stuff could have always changed or thought of something new within that time.

Orochimaru already hypes this moment by mentioning how whatever we saw from Katsuyu thus far was not even close to the whole body.

Scaling can be taken that literally when it was scaled to the god tree where a person wasnt never drawn to it because of its sheer size.

 

[KidGamer65]

Few things.
Juugo is not Tsunade.
Tsunade's speed feats > Juugo's
Him Coming from behind is not her Right before hitting the ground

And B isn't Ay, he's incomparably slower than Ay so it really doesn't matter in the end. Not to mention I cited two examples. If you are going to respond address everything or don't waste both our time posting at all.

Oh and Well that would be 1% Katsuyu.
Tsunade and Sakura summoned 10% Katsuyu
Tsunade can only summon 1% Katsuyu
Therefore Sakura can summon 9% Katsuyu

That is how your logic plays out. You're grasping at straws. But if you hold it to be true, I'll make sure to enter threads in which Sakura is facing opponents just to mention she summons 9% Katsuyu and I'll watch you be unable to backpedal

No, it simply means that what Sakura and Tsunade can do alone isn't as good as you think it is. Maybe you should stop using trash logic and just take what the Manga gives you instead of making excuses like this fanbase always does. The first 6 Bijuu minus Shukaku on their own can only form Mountain Sized Bijuu Dama. Yet when they pool their powers together they can make a super sized Bijuu Dama. Individually the only one who has shown super sized Bijuu Dama would be Kurama. By your logic, because 5 together can make that giant ball, each one should be able to make that ball divided by a factor of 5.

But they can't. The Manga has shown that when Tsunade or Sakura are alone the Katsuyu they can summon is the Bijuu sized Katsuyu. Doesn't get any simpler than that. I'm not interested in your fanfiction. I'm interested in what the Manga shows. And it shows that Bijuu sized Katsuyu is Tsunade/Sakura's limit on their own.

So has Ay always paused? Yes or No?
You WILL answer, as I posted databook proof. And still answered your questions, despite my claim being fully backed up by the manga.
If not, link a scan to a time in which he didn't do pause. If so, Ay is going to pause. There is this thing called pattern recognition for fighting and Ay's pattern is to pause. No use in denying that.

This is hilariously pathetic. I'll just repeat what I said since you haven't actually addressed it.

-The time need to use V2 is of course more fanfiction from you.

You must be registered for see links

Where's the time? Because anyone who honestly reads the Manga without their love for a certain character blinding them knows that this charge you people love to talk about doesn't exist.

-Ay activates armor.
-Ay's armor flares up and he dashes at Minato.

You must be registered for see links

-Flares up armor.
-Tells Naruto he's coming and then attacks.

There is no "time" to pump up to V2. None. At. All.

Where is the time needed to use his top speed? Don't change your argument and go from "it takes time" to "there is a pause" because a pause as minuscule as what is actually shown in the Manga is irrelevant. Arguing "it takes time" like you were before you got proven wrong would help your argument...

If you were right in the first place. But you don't make sense, so you aren't right.

Tsunade is more than capable of making the hand seals quickly. Also you're acting like Tsunade getting hit is going to stop her from her task at hand, when Susanoo swords didn't stop her from attacking. This match up is decided and Tsunade won.

Her making the hand signs quickly is irrelevant, because it takes Ay less time to activate his armor than it does for her to make hand signs. And stop using bad logic. The Susanoo swords were already embedded in her. Different attack and a difference scenario. If Ay hits her at full force right in the face before she can make hand signs she'll get thrown back and take damage let alone perform the summoning jutsu.

This match up will only be decided when you stop using this trashy logic and start admitting that you are wrong on the areas you've been defeated in. It's pretty funny to watch how the quality of your argument has devolved as the pages increase. First it was "Tsunade reacts to Ay's top speed and clobbers him", now it's "Katsuyu defeats Ay". :lol

 

[Tazzilla88]

And B isn't Ay, he's incomparably slower than Ay so it really doesn't matter in the end. Not to mention I cited two examples. If you are going to respond address everything or don't waste both our time posting at all.

No thanks, you still haven't answered my questions. So I'll choose what I'll respond to. Thank you.

No, it simply means that what Sakura and Tsunade can do alone isn't as good as you think it is. Maybe you should stop using trash logic and just take what the Manga gives you instead of making excuses like this fanbase always does. The first 6 Bijuu minus Shukaku on their own can only form Mountain Sized Bijuu Dama. Yet when they pool their powers together they can make a super sized Bijuu Dama. Individually the only one who has shown super sized Bijuu Dama would be Kurama. By your logic, because 5 together can make that giant ball, each one should be able to make that ball divided by a factor of 5.

Did you just call that logic shitty. You're hating to the max bro. That was literally perfect logic. Um weren't the tailed beast stated to have power that correlates to their number of tails? So... no, that logic doesn't hold. Try again mate.

But they can't. The Manga has shown that when Tsunade or Sakura are alone the Katsuyu they can summon is the Bijuu sized Katsuyu. Doesn't get any simpler than that. I'm not interested in your fanfiction. I'm interested in what the Manga shows. And it shows that Bijuu sized Katsuyu is Tsunade/Sakura's limit on their own.

Except everytime Tsunade has summoned Katsuyu it's been a different size.
But simple logic tells us that to be capable of summoning 10% together with no outside power source they must have the powers separately to summon two Katsuyus that if they unite would equal 10%.

This is hilariously pathetic. I'll just repeat what I said since you haven't actually addressed it.

If you say so.

Where is the time needed to use his top speed? Don't change your argument and go from "it takes time" to "there is a pause" because a pause as minuscule as what is actually shown in the Manga is irrelevant. Arguing "it takes time" like you were before you got proven wrong would help your argument...

The pause was what I was referring to. Stop being sour. A pause takes time. And he always pauses. Though I really don't care he's getting squashed by an instant teleportation. Also just so you know. If Tsunade can see Naruto flash, then she can see Ay's flash. And touch the ground and Katsuyu appears in the vicinity he's in. 5% Katsuyu is massive.

Her making the hand signs quickly is irrelevant, because it takes Ay less time to activate his armor than it does for her to make hand signs. And stop using bad logic. The Susanoo swords were already embedded in her. Different attack and a difference scenario. If Ay hits her at full force right in the face before she can make hand signs she'll get thrown back and take damage let alone perform the summoning jutsu.

Yes, because a woman who fought with her intercostals cut, various muscles cut, stabbed straight through the middle of her chest, and slashed across her torso, and and cut into her ribs, is going to give in to the pain.

A woman who was actively impaled and fought through it. A woman who pulled a giant sword out of herself, and immediately used it as a weapon, will be unable to act after getting hit by Ay. Someone who took Yasaka Magatama of any order, at point blank range and then smashed into stones, with no serious damage will be able to summon.

Besides it's manga fact that she can summon without the use of hand seals.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[Greedie]

Can't believe this is still going

Seems taz is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for these arguments

 

[Anbu Knights]

Can't believe this is still going

Seems taz is really scraping the bottom of the barrel for these arguments

Honestly lol! Every time a argument gets shut down he goes for something else even more ridiculous. It's like he's only arguing so he won't have to concede.

We've now arrived at Bring Down The House (Tsunade style) smh. Raikage has and always will spank Tsunade I don't know why this is still going.

 

[KidGamer65]

No thanks, you still haven't answered my questions. So I'll choose what I'll respond to. Thank you.

Your questions aren't arguments. My arguments are arguments. :lol That's the difference. So address everything or don't post.

Did you just call that logic shitty. You're hating to the max bro. That was literally perfect logic. Um weren't the tailed beast stated to have power that correlates to their number of tails? So... no, that logic doesn't hold. Try again mate.

You must be registered for see images

Nope. That's a thing that Kurama and humans decided to go by. Obviously not fact if Hachibi tells him not to determine power by tail count. No Bijuu has ever shown a difference in power from each other except for Kurama. That's a fact. Every Bijuu can use a standard sized BD yet only Kurama can make a super sized BD. That fact holds true even if the tails equaled power. Combined with the fact that we've seen Sakura and Tsunade call Katsuyu on their own and you come to the fact that you have no real proof that she can summon a 5% Katsuyu on her own.


I'm not hating. Just dismantling what you think is logic. Your logic would make sense if Sakura and Tsunade's max capacity hadn't already been shown in the Manga. Try again mate.

Except everytime Tsunade has summoned Katsuyu it's been a different size.
But simple logic tells us that to be capable of summoning 10% together with no outside power source they must have the powers separately to summon two Katsuyus that if they unite would equal 10%.

No, it hasn't. Stop using inconsistent scaling to prove your point. The only time a different size Katsuyu has been summoned is when she had to heal the Gokage post Madara fight.

The pause was what I was referring to. Stop being sour. A pause takes time. And he always pauses. Though I really don't care he's getting squashed by an instant teleportation. Also just so you know. If Tsunade can see Naruto flash, then she can see Ay's flash. And touch the ground and Katsuyu appears in the vicinity he's in. 5% Katsuyu is massive.

Yes, it takes a minuscule amount of time that doesn't affect anything. If that is what you are trying to argue you don't really have a point. :lol Tsunade seeing Naruto flash doesn't tell her where he goes it tells her when he goes, so this is the same thing we've been arguing. Tsunade can't perceive Ay's movements, so when she is about to summon Ay either dashes out of range by going vertical, to the side, or he dashes straight at Tsunade.

And no, Tsunade's Katsuyu is Bijuu sized.

Yes, because a woman who fought with her intercostals cut, various muscles cut, stabbed straight through the middle of her chest, and slashed across her torso, and and cut into her ribs, is going to give in to the pain.

Pain isn't why she can't summon while being punched in the face. The fact she'll be tossed back like a rag doll is why she can't summon. Stop using this shit logic please.

A woman who was actively impaled and fought through it. A woman who pulled a giant sword out of herself, and immediately used it as a weapon, will be unable to act after getting hit by Ay. Someone who took Yasaka Magatama of any order, at point blank range and then smashed into stones, with no serious damage will be able to summon.

This has been addressed. Who said she'll be unable to act after getting hit by Ay? Can you read? Or do you choose not to read when it comes to arguments that hurt your stance? I said she won't be able to summon if Ay hits her. I never said she won't be able to summon after she has recoiled from said hit. Pain isn't relevant here so stop mentioning feats where she shows her pain tolerance.

-Took Yasaka Magatama yet was tossed back and unable to do a thing during said attack. Note I said DURING. Not Before. Not After. DURING.

-Used the sword against Madara AFTER she got hit, not before, not during.

Besides it's manga fact that she can summon without the use of hand seals.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

It doesn't matter. There is preparation. She needs blood first of all. That is preparation. Ay's reflexes are far above hers and in the time Ay moves Tsunade can't even visually process him let alone summon shit. She's not getting a damn thing off before he can evade or just come for her.

Hmm so first Tsunade reacts to Ay's top speed and clobbers him. Then after realizing how stupid that sounded your argument became "Tsunade sits on Katsuyu and Ay loses because he can't reach her, and from that distance she can easily avoid or bat away his top speed because she did the same thing to a Katon", and after you couldn't support that now we are at "Tsunade summons Katsuyu on top of the guy who's movements she can't perceive and wins".

:lol What's next? Katsuyu absorbs Tsunade and they try to wait Ay out? :lol Please.

 

[RedRobin]

If this is your argument now lol) then you are wrong as Ay and people far weaker have shown feats that let him move Bijuu sized objects with his physical power as already explained in my post to your partner in crime.

Yes, it is, but that's irrelevant to the actual fact that this function is completely different than taking a force and not budging. :lol

What? No. It moved because Ay hit it. Wincing in pain and actually being forced down are two completely different reactions. :lol Wow. It's amazing how you will blatantly lie and twist what occurs on panel to fit your agenda. Don't address this point again if you aren't going to address everything that has been said on said topic. Jiraiya was tossing giant summons around dozens of meters. KN0 Naruto was smacking giant snakes around. Neither of them are as strong as Ay, and in Naruto's case it's not even close. Him not being able to make Katsuyu budge is probably the stupidest thing I've read in this entire thread, and that's honestly saying something with the nonsense you two have posted in the past 5 pages.

No, because by herself we have already seen what she can summon. Two being able to call 10% thus one can call 5 is a conclusion that directly contradicts what the Manga shows. 5 Bijuu can make a Bijuu dwarfing Bijuu Dama yet on their own all they have shown is standard sized BD. Kurama is the only BIjuu bar Juubi that can make Super Sized BD's. :lol So this logic doesn't work here.

That or either what we've seen in the Manga is 5% Katsuyu and your size scaling is simply inaccurate.

No your examples do not show summons the size of Katsuyu so you cannot say Ay moves her weight(expanded below) furthermore you would need to show how he would still be able to move her weight when she absorbs his attack because none of those summons have the same ability Katsuyu has.

No its not. She takes impacts whether they come from underneath her, from her side or from the top. It will not matter. She doesnt move because she takes the impact and and there wont be anything left to move her.

But he didnt force the head down... Hahichi winced in pain and

You must be registered for see links

where the pain came from which is further shown with his eye closing. But again why do you think this proves anything? Ay would have just moved his head and that would drag the rest of the body down. Hachibi's body is nothing like Katsuyu who is one large body mass so Ay doesnt have anywhere to target like a horn to move the rest of the body which is most of the examples that you gave. And the bigger point is none of them have the ability to absorb impacts in the way Katsuyu can.

None of that is relevant. You brought a random point out of left field that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. We have only seen Tsunade summon in base not in Byakugo which is different because Katsuyu can be summoned in different portions. Kishi drew her next to the tree for a reason so you gauge whatever you want about her size but I think its pretty clear.

 

[~Ethereal~]

Tsunade would have to strip, so it will leave Mei vs Tsunade. I am sure you all like my suggestion?

 

[neosmith500]

Tsunade would have to strip, so it will leave Mei vs Tsunade. I am sure you all like my suggestion?

Too hot:ilu:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

 

[KidGamer65]

No your examples do not show summons the size of Katsuyu so you cannot say Ay moves her weight(expanded below) furthermore you would need to show how he would still be able to move her weight when she absorbs his attack because none of those summons have the same ability Katsuyu has.

No its not. She takes impacts whether they come from underneath her, from her side or from the top. It will not matter. She doesnt move because she takes the impact and and there wont be anything left to move her.

But he didnt force the head down... Hahichi winced in pain and

You must be registered for see links

where the pain came from which is further shown with his eye closing. But again why do you think this proves anything? Ay would have just moved his head and that would drag the rest of the body down. Hachibi's body is nothing like Katsuyu who is one large body mass so Ay doesnt have anywhere to target like a horn to move the rest of the body which is most of the examples that you gave. And the bigger point is none of them have the ability to absorb impacts in the way Katsuyu can.

None of that is relevant. You brought a random point out of left field that has nothing to do with what we are talking about. We have only seen Tsunade summon in base not in Byakugo which is different because Katsuyu can be summoned in different portions. Kishi drew her next to the tree for a reason so you gauge whatever you want about her size but I think its pretty clear.

My examples explained why that is irrelevant. So actually address what was stated or don't reply to me, and Katsuyu has no special ability to absorb attacks as we've already gone over. That is basic physics. Stop making nonsense up. The bold isn't how physics works nor is it how Katsuyu works. Not shown in the Manga or Databook. So can we cut the bullshit already? All these statements yet not one piece of logical evidence behind them. No reason for you to be taken seriously.

Go address the rest of the examples or don't reply to me. You can have the Hachibi point.

And I've already addressed Tsunade being able to summon 5% Katsuyu. Not interested in your opinions. Only what the Manga shows.